Wanted NAS hard drives

[n210mp]

Can anyone suggest the cheapest places to buy 3/4TB NAS hard drives please

[OneMoreFarang]

You can buy them here for a decent price:

https://www.jetcom.co.th/HARDDISK/HARDDISK-Internal-jet-/HDD-สำหรับ-NAS-STORAGE-35

 

Personally I wouldn't look for the cheapest place but a reliable place with good prices.

Because whatever data you will have on that NAS are probably worth more than a few hundred baht to you.

Buy quality, that's better than thinking two years later you should have paid a little more. ???? 

[BritManToo]

I always buy from Lazada.

Sometimes it's cheaper to buy them in an enclosure and rip them out.

My NAS allows me to plug them in as USB drives if I prefer.

 

3k for 4TB

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-black-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbk-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522014547-s929950452.html

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/4-tb-hdd-wd-blue-5400rpm-sata3-wd40ezrz-pansonics-i365804206-s795618155.html

Edited January 12, 2020 by BritManToo

[n210mp]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I always buy from Lazada.

Sometimes it's cheaper to buy them in an enclosure and rip them out.

My NAS allows me to plug them in as USB drives if I prefer.

 

3k for 4TB

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-black-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbk-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522014547-s929950452.html

Hi BMT and thanks for the link, also thanks to OMF for his advice.

 

I know that my recent purchase of a Synology 418J NAS can accept 2.5 HDD but is the WD Passport HDD a NAS type ?

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, n210mp said:

Hi BMT and thanks for the link, also thanks to OMF for his advice.

 

I know that my recent purchase of a Synology 418J NAS can accept 2.5 HDD but is the WD Passport HDD a NAS type ?

I've never felt it mattered, never had a PC drive fail in a NAS, and I've been running some of mine for 10 years.

They all have a 3 year warranty.

Edited January 12, 2020 by BritManToo

[n210mp]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I've never felt it mattered, never had PC one fail in a NAS, and I've been running them for 10 years.

 

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I've never felt it mattered, never had PC one fail in a NAS, and I've been running them for 10 years.

Well it certainly is worth considering,  I could save about 1500 Baht per 4Tb  Drive with prices compared deals from  ADvice if I went the WD Passport  way.

In any event the WD passport HDD  from a moving about scenario must take an awful lot of shaking, vibration etc that won't be happening in a NAS enclosure tucked away in a quiet corner. 

 

 

[Peterw42]

43 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I always buy from Lazada.

Sometimes it's cheaper to buy them in an enclosure and rip them out.

My NAS allows me to plug them in as USB drives if I prefer.

 

3k for 4TB

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-black-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbk-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522014547-s929950452.html

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/4-tb-hdd-wd-blue-5400rpm-sata3-wd40ezrz-pansonics-i365804206-s795618155.html

I agree its often cheaper to buy in the enclosure but its not always clear what color/quality WD drive in inside, its usually a red/blue one (5400rpm) not a black one (7200rpm, 64MB cache). The black one can run twice the price.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, n210mp said:

Hi BMT and thanks for the link, also thanks to OMF for his advice.

 

I know that my recent purchase of a Synology 418J NAS can accept 2.5 HDD but is the WD Passport HDD a NAS type ?

Any drive will work in a NAS, it just depends how much you want to spend for speed/reliability etc, WD has different colors to represent higher speed, reliability etc , red, blue, purple, black (the best). I think red/purple is the model they make with different specs specifically for NAS

Edited January 12, 2020 by Peterw42

[impulse]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I always buy from Lazada.

Sometimes it's cheaper to buy them in an enclosure and rip them out.

My NAS allows me to plug them in as USB drives if I prefer.

 

3k for 4TB

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-black-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbk-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522014547-s929950452.html

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/4-tb-hdd-wd-blue-5400rpm-sata3-wd40ezrz-pansonics-i365804206-s795618155.html

 

I've always found that the drives I ripped out of an enclosure are the cheapest style, and not the ones recommended for NAS use.  I forget the WD nomenclature, but I think they were the black ones, and the red ones are recommended for NAS.  (or was it the opposite, and what is purple all about?) That said, failures were pretty random, but far more often than the manufacturer's claims.  Especially during the hard drive panic of 2011 when the factories flooded.  I got 3 or 4 lemons in a row that year.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by impulse

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I've always found that the drives I ripped out of an enclosure are the cheapest style, and not the ones recommended for NAS use.  I forget the WD nomenclature, but I think they were the black ones, and the red ones are recommended for NAS.  (or was it the opposite, and what is purple all about?) That said, failures were pretty random, but far more often than the manufacturer's claims.  Especially during the hard drive panic of 2011 when the factories flooded.  I got 3 or 4 lemons in a row that year.

 

 

Me too, but I've had no failures at all since then.

And the drives that did fail seemed to be the ones with intermittent use, rather than the ones on 24/7.

My pet theory was the bearings corroded (or the lubrication dried out) when not used, then failed.

 

As for the different colours/prices, purely a marketing gimmick IMHO.

If there were essential differences, they would give significantly longer warranties on the more expensive drives.

Edited January 12, 2020 by BritManToo

[impulse]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Me too, but I've had no failures at all since then.

And the drives that did fail seemed to be the ones with intermittent use, rather than the ones on 24/7.

My pet theory was the bearings corroded (or the lubrication dried out) when not used, then failed.

 

That matches my experience.  I don't recall ever having one fail while running.  Only the ones I pulled out of a drawer, plugged them in, and they either wouldn't spin up, or spun with a bunch of clunks.    I'd suspect handling damage, but I was very careful to store them in a drawer, and handle them with kid gloves.

 

I think they'll hold up forever once you get them into an array.  But my go-to computer has always been a laptop.  I finally broke down and bought a 2nd hand Xeon server (from a bunch of guys beating it out of Thailand after a failed video streaming venture, but that's a whole 'nother story).  I set it up as my storage and never lost an HD that was running.  Sadly, I struggled mightily to keep my Windows based network communicating with my laptops with all the Win7 and Win10 changes to the Home Group.  So I still needed USB hard drives.  And when I left Thailand, I had no room in my luggage for the massive Xeon unit.  I wish now that I had sprung the $100+ for excess baggage.

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by impulse

[OneMoreFarang]

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

WD has different colors to represent higher speed, reliability etc , red, blue, purple, black (the best)

There is no such thing as the best.

There is such thing as the fastest, and that is the black one.

The red is optimized for RAID, others are about energy consumption, etc.

I agree often they are interchangeable but there are differences.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Understanding-the-WD-Rainbow-674/

[n210mp]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There is no such thing as the best.

There is such thing as the fastest, and that is the black one.

The red is optimized for RAID, others are about energy consumption, etc.

I agree often they are interchangeable but there are differences.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Understanding-the-WD-Rainbow-674/

Thanks for all the great info, it looks then as though I will be going for the WD Passport 2.5 disc 

3k Baht  for 4TB

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-black-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbk-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522014547-s929950452.html

From the link sent by BMT

 

One final question before I take the plunge and buy 4 from Laz, is there any problem with a 2.5 HDD against a 3.5 HDD?

 

PS just found this and your views would be welcome  the Toshiba   4Tb X300 

 

  https://shopee.co.th/4-0-TB-HDD--ฮาร์ดดิสก์--TOSHIBA-X300-7200rpm-3-5--128MB-SATA-III--HDWE140UZSVA----H----รับประกัน-3-ปี-i.43263481.7800730919?gclid=CjwKCAiApOvwBRBUEiwAcZGdGAP1l2dzDewhIGDRNuL-muXQhyGKjT4qIFcwTk1c-1s3Apriu1plbhoCMx4QAvD_BwE

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by n210mp

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, n210mp said:

Thanks for all the great info, it looks then as though I will be going for the WD Passport 2.5 disc 

3k Baht  for 4TB

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-black-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbk-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522014547-s929950452.html

From the link sent by BMT

 

One final question before I take the plunge and buy 4 from Laz, is there any problem with a 2.5 HDD against a 3.5 HDD?

 

2.5 HDD are slower and have less capacity. (both are sacrificed to make them smaller to fit inside a laptop). If $ per TB is your main criteria then 2.5 would be fine, for speed or larger capacity or reliability, a 3.5 drive would be better. Be careful buying 2.5 inch external drives as they can sometimes have 2x2tb drives inside to get the 4tb capacity ( or the drive will actually have 2 platters of 2tbb each).  The physicial capacity limit of a 2.5 inch platter is 2TB, so there is either 2 drives or a drive with 2 platters inside it, ultimately having 2 times more chance of failure.

 

Not sure if available in Thailand but I would be looking at something like this

 

https://www.adorama.com/wd4003ffbxh2.html

Edited January 13, 2020 by Peterw42

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, n210mp said:

is there any problem with a 2.5 HDD against a 3.5 HDD

2.5" are a lot slower than 3.5". And I guess they will also get hotter because of the smaller size.

If you can use 3.5" or 2.5" then definitely buy 3.5" for lots of reasons.

[BritManToo]

30 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

2.5" are a lot slower than 3.5". And I guess they will also get hotter because of the smaller size.

If you can use 3.5" or 2.5" then definitely buy 3.5" for lots of reasons.

I would say the exact opposite.

2.5" is newer tech, much more likely to be reliable and last longer than the older 3.5" models.

The only thing to watch out for in the 2.5" drives (if you intend to remove them from the casing) is they might not have a SATA connection inside.

Edited January 13, 2020 by BritManToo

[n210mp]

6 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

2.5 HDD are slower and have less capacity. (both are sacrificed to make them smaller to fit inside a laptop). If $ per TB is your main criteria then 2.5 would be fine, for speed or larger capacity or reliability, a 3.5 drive would be better. Be careful buying 2.5 inch external drives as they can sometimes have 2x2tb drives inside to get the 4tb capacity ( or the drive will actually have 2 platters of 2tbb each).  The physicial capacity limit of a 2.5 inch platter is 2TB, so there is either 2 drives or a drive with 2 platters inside it, ultimately having 2 times more chance of failure.

 

Not sure if available in Thailand but I would be looking at something like this

 

https://www.adorama.com/wd4003ffbxh2.html

Thanks for the suggestion but at just under  10K Baht for 2 x 4Tb, they are a little too expensive for my budget 

[n210mp]

Well its back to the drawing board.

 

This source for the Toshiba 4TB is looking for me at least my best option at 2900 Baht per disc.

 

: https://shopee.co.th/4-0-TB-HDD--ฮาร์ดดิสก์--TOSHIBA-X300-7200rpm-3-5--128MB-SATA-III--HDWE140UZSVA----H----รับประกัน-3-ปี-i.43263481.7800730919?gclid=CjwKCAiApOvwBRBUEiwAcZGdGAP1l2dzDewhIGDRNuL-muXQhyGKjT4qIFcwTk1c-1s3Apriu1plbhoCMx4QAvD_BwE

 

Could you give your  opinions one way or the other?

 

Thanks again for all the posts its much  appreciated and I have learned  something. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by n210mp

[OneMoreFarang]

5 hours ago, n210mp said:

Well its back to the drawing board.

 

This source for the Toshiba 4TB is looking for me at least my best option at 2900 Baht per disc.

 

: https://shopee.co.th/4-0-TB-HDD--ฮาร์ดดิสก์--TOSHIBA-X300-7200rpm-3-5--128MB-SATA-III--HDWE140UZSVA----H----รับประกัน-3-ปี-i.43263481.7800730919?gclid=CjwKCAiApOvwBRBUEiwAcZGdGAP1l2dzDewhIGDRNuL-muXQhyGKjT4qIFcwTk1c-1s3Apriu1plbhoCMx4QAvD_BwE

 

Could you give your  opinions one way or the other?

 

Thanks again for all the posts its much  appreciated and I have learned  something. 

Those drives should do the job.

They run with 7200 RPM this means they are relative fast but fast is not everything - see the WE article which I linked earlier. They are not designed for NAS

For 500B more you get disks which are designed for NAS like these:

https://www.jetcom.co.th/HARDDISK/HARDDISK-Internal-jet-/HDD-สำหรับ-NAS-STORAGE-35/HDD-4TB-SEAGATE-Nas-Ironwolf-Satalll5900-64MB.html

https://www.jetcom.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=cat_show_pro_detail&cid=49699&pid=571589

Personally I would spend that extra money but that is obviously only my opinion.

 

[n210mp]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Those drives should do the job.

They run with 7200 RPM this means they are relative fast but fast is not everything - see the WE article which I linked earlier. They are not designed for NAS

For 500B more you get disks which are designed for NAS like these:

https://www.jetcom.co.th/HARDDISK/HARDDISK-Internal-jet-/HDD-สำหรับ-NAS-STORAGE-35/HDD-4TB-SEAGATE-Nas-Ironwolf-Satalll5900-64MB.html

https://www.jetcom.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=cat_show_pro_detail&cid=49699&pid=571589

Personally I would spend that extra money but that is obviously only my opinion.

 

Thanks OMF for all you input on this subject.

 

Whilst I was looking at the link you sent I also looked at the Barracuda drive which was also under the NAS sub heading below and saw this https://www.jetcom.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=cat_show_pro_detail&cid=45770&pid=1067530

 

What do you think about that drive although I am not sure but think it isn't a NAS drive ?

 

Also and I know I am playing devils advocate her, Seagate had a bit of a bad reputation but maybe that was when their factory was flooded ?

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, n210mp said:

Thanks OMF for all you input on this subject.

 

Whilst I was looking at the link you sent I also looked at the Barracuda drive which was also under the NAS sub heading below and saw this https://www.jetcom.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=cat_show_pro_detail&cid=45770&pid=1067530

 

What do you think about that drive although I am not sure but think it isn't a NAS drive ?

 

Also and I know I am playing devils advocate her, Seagate had a bit of a bad reputation but maybe that was when their factory was flooded ?

I am sure that drive will do the job.

 

I work professionally with computers since DOS - a long time ago. There was a time when you really had to look at the available parts and then there were only few choices of the real good parts. But that is a long time ago. Now basically any disk from any big manufacturer (I think there are only 3 disk manufacturers left) will do the job.

 

If you have time and care i.e. about performance or noise or energy consumption then you can spend lots of time checking details in specs and in tests and probably you will find that drive A is 20% faster than drive B. And then you can think about if you are willing to pay 30% more for that. Or you just skip that process and buy something according to "it will do the job". By now I do that most of the time. ???? 

 

And just as a reminder: 4 or 8TB is A LOT OF DATA. If you want to make sure you don't lose it use RAID and monitor if all works according to plan. There is nothing worse than finding out that just the 2nd RAID disk failed after the 1st disk failed some time ago but nobody noticed or nobody cared.

[n210mp]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am sure that drive will do the job.

 

I work professionally with computers since DOS - a long time ago. There was a time when you really had to look at the available parts and then there were only few choices of the real good parts. But that is a long time ago. Now basically any disk from any big manufacturer (I think there are only 3 disk manufacturers left) will do the job.

 

If you have time and care i.e. about performance or noise or energy consumption then you can spend lots of time checking details in specs and in tests and probably you will find that drive A is 20% faster than drive B. And then you can think about if you are willing to pay 30% more for that. Or you just skip that process and buy something according to "it will do the job". By now I do that most of the time. ???? 

 

And just as a reminder: 4 or 8TB is A LOT OF DATA. If you want to make sure you don't lose it use RAID and monitor if all works according to plan. There is nothing worse than finding out that just the 2nd RAID disk failed after the 1st disk failed some time ago but nobody noticed or nobody cared.

Great! Thanks for your time.

 

I really am a "mug" at this and appreciate your input.

 

The various pluses and minuses that are available to this "tyro" are mind boggling thus making any decision making really hard .

Anyway I have concluded that the Seagate Barracuda 4Tb at just under 3K Baht is the choice!

 

I really only wish to have a actual storage of 6/8 Tb excluding redundancy  so I am going with the plan of not buying 4 x 3Tb but 3 x 4Tb on the basis that there will be 25% less to go wrong , could you give me a final opinion on that thought and then I promise to leave you at rest haha  (At least for tonight)

 

Oh I intend  to use a 5 Raid setup

 

Thanks a million

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by n210mp

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, n210mp said:

Oh I intend  to use a 5 Raid setup

I would avoid any striped partitions, you tend to lose all data on all drives if one goes wrong (no matter what they claim). Raid 1, if you want sure fire data protection. IMHO striped RAID isn't suitable or reliable for home users. And what about the disk format that's used in the NAS, most of them seem to use Linux (ext3 or ext4) and you can't just pull a drive out of a failed NAS enclosure and easily read it on your PC or laptop, but my external USB drives plugged into the NAS are normal NTFS drives.

 

You need to consider how much data on you NAS is unique, personal photos and documents are usually a very small part of your stored data. I keep one copy on each of my 2 NAS enclosures, 1 copy on my PC, and a final copy on Google drive/photos.

 

All the other data I have, movies, tv series, music, books, can just be re-downloaded with a bit of effort. No need to keep it 100% secure.

 

I've ended up with a small 500MB drive inside my NAS (ext3 format), which I use for temporary storage, and a 4TB USB drive on the outside (NTFS format) that the NAS can use for more permanent storage. If the NAS enclosure fails, I can just plug my USB drive directly into my PC.

Edited January 13, 2020 by BritManToo

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, n210mp said:

Great! Thanks for your time.

 

I really am a "mug" at this and appreciate your input.

 

The various pluses and minuses that are available to this "tyro" are mind boggling thus making any decision making really hard .

Anyway I have concluded that the Seagate Barracuda 4Tb at just under 3K Baht is the choice!

 

I really only wish to have a actual storage of 6/8 Tb excluding redundancy  so I am going with the plan of not buying 4 x 3Tb but 3 x 4Tb on the basis that there will be 25% less to go wrong , could you give me a final opinion on that thought and then I promise to leave you at rest haha  (At least for tonight)

 

Oh I intend  to use a 5 Raid setup

 

Thanks a million

 

If your NAS supports that configuration, fine.

In theory RAID 5 can support 3 disks or more. You should check the manual of your NAS for possible configurations.

And be aware that RAID 5 might be slower than RAID 1 (Mirror).

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would avoid any striped partitions, you tend to lose all data on all drives if one goes wrong (no matter what they claim)

Sorry that is just an unprofessional opinion.

RAID 5 works, and it still works with one drive missing - in the device in which it was setup.

 

You can't just take the drives out of one device and put them in another and expect they will work.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sorry that is just an unprofessional opinion.

RAID 5 works, and it still works with one drive missing - in the device in which it was setup.

You can't just take the drives out of one device and put them in another and expect they will work.

A home NAS is not professional, by it's very definition its amateur. 

Most home users only have 1 enclosure, if it fails (which is more likely than the drive failing), you've lost everything.

[OneMoreFarang]

56 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

A home NAS is not professional, by it's very definition its amateur. 

Most home users only have 1 enclosure, if it fails (which is more likely than the drive failing), you've lost everything.

Ok, fair enough, I get your point.

But if you can buy the same enclosure again then that should work with the existing drives.

I have experience with working and not working RAID systems in PCs and servers.

I had a look at NAS configurations but just a little and I never had to deal with a failed NAS.

[n210mp]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If your NAS supports that configuration, fine.

In theory RAID 5 can support 3 disks or more. You should check the manual of your NAS for possible configurations.

And be aware that RAID 5 might be slower than RAID 1 (Mirror).

Yes it does support RAID 5 OMF and I know it does work  because I originally set the device up with 4 (used)  WD Red 3TB discs . (The used hard drives I bought on a sale or return basis from a friend )

 

It all worked fine  for 20 minutes before 2 of the disc went wrong and the system advised replacing the two defective ones with new ones !

My friend took all 4 discs back and gave me back my money.

 

To be honest it was only the "cheapness of the used 3Tb disks that made me go for the NAS setup in the first place, later and with hindsight I would have converted an old PC that I have a few of, to a NAS setup using FreeNAS. 

 

Being a home used I am not unduly worried about its speed.

 

In fact is anyone interested in  buying my  Synology DS 418J 4 x disk, only purchased last week because I think I would be better converting one of my old Intel  i5s desktops  with 500Gb SSD to a NAS 

Edited January 14, 2020 by n210mp

[n210mp]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would avoid any striped partitions, you tend to lose all data on all drives if one goes wrong (no matter what they claim). Raid 1, if you want sure fire data protection. IMHO striped RAID isn't suitable or reliable for home users. And what about the disk format that's used in the NAS, most of them seem to use Linux (ext3 or ext4) and you can't just pull a drive out of a failed NAS enclosure and easily read it on your PC or laptop, but my external USB drives plugged into the NAS are normal NTFS drives.

 

You need to consider how much data on you NAS is unique, personal photos and documents are usually a very small part of your stored data. I keep one copy on each of my 2 NAS enclosures, 1 copy on my PC, and a final copy on Google drive/photos.

 

All the other data I have, movies, tv series, music, books, can just be re-downloaded with a bit of effort. No need to keep it 100% secure.

 

I've ended up with a small 500MB drive inside my NAS (ext3 format), which I use for temporary storage, and a 4TB USB drive on the outside (NTFS format) that the NAS can use for more permanent storage. If the NAS enclosure fails, I can just plug my USB drive directly into my PC.

Thanks for that BMT I need to have a good think about what you are saying, in fact I have  decided to sell my new DS 418j and build a new NAS from one of my Intel i5 desktops with say 8 or 10 discs using 1/2 Tb ordinary disc 

[BritManToo]

28 minutes ago, n210mp said:

Thanks for that BMT I need to have a good think about what you are saying, in fact I have  decided to sell my new DS 418j and build a new NAS from one of my Intel i5 desktops with say 8 or 10 discs using 1/2 Tb ordinary disc 

I use my NAS for downloading torrents and distributing movies and TV shows around the house.

It's great to be able to do it all without having a computer turned on.

I mainly use this one, 3,000bht, with a 4TB WD USB drive plugged into the back.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/zyxel-nas-326-2-bay-personal-cloud-storage-i9793261-s12270438.html