Why British dementia patients are being sent to Thailand

[The Theory]

Not easy for relatives, especially at last stage.

Edited January 14, 2020 by The Theory

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

Put many Dementia people together is not good idea IMO. Difficult.

Correct. Some dementia patients are aggressive, and harm other patients. Quite a few cases in Australia of inadequate supervision resulting in bashings. A high proportion of the victims are women.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, CharlieH said:

In my observation, Thai people/families take care of anyone in the family with a problem/issue. Thats also why the hospitals allow families to stay in the room etc, which you would rarely see in the west.

In my village there are a few that I have seen, but from what I understand, generally the disabled family members, blind, disfugured, mental health are all cared for by the families.

They are often restricted to the home and kept out of sight. Some that are not so bad are allowed to be free and the village know who they are and where there home is, so you could say the community takes care of them too.Its great to see and I admire that.

This was probably born out of inability to place anywhere else due to cost or facility etc for rural villages etc but has remained a family trait and in my opinion is great to see and heart warming attitude by the community in general.

The same in my GF's village. The ones with fetal alcohol syndrome, missing limbs due to scooter or farm accidents etc. are cared for by their families. They are accepted as part of the family fabric. No matter what else one has to say about the Thais, their family and social cohesion is one of the strongest in the world.

My GF had about ten people in the room ( including me ) when she had a gastroscopy a couple of years ago. IMO the moral support very probably helped her through it.

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, JAFO said:

I fully support euthanasia

why do old people walk funny? ... because they are in pain!

 

I go along with you -- but there are issues here in Thailand... my wife cannot put a dog to sleep. It seems there should be a better way to exit, a pre-planned very comfortable gradual morphine-aided 'in a cloud' slow [a couple of weeks maybe?] painless demise... maybe by the time I am ready? or maybe another place has something humane like this... go softly into the night... 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, atyclb said:

 

i thought dementia was a prerequisite for joining the forum?

Sorry, who are you?

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

why do old people walk funny? ... because they are in pain!

 

I go along with you -- but there are issues here in Thailand... my wife cannot put a dog to sleep. It seems there should be a better way to exit, a pre-planned very comfortable gradual morphine-aided 'in a cloud' slow [a couple of weeks maybe?] painless demise... maybe by the time I am ready? or maybe another place has something humane like this... go softly into the night... 

If I had my way there would be a "check-out" Hotel, check-in sign the papers, given a nice drink of your choice that puts you into a deep sleep, then a needle and its all over. This should be a dignified choice and option for people that are able to make that decision for themselves.

[1FinickyOne]

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

If I had my way there would be a "check-out" Hotel, check-in sign the papers, given a nice drink of your choice that puts you into a deep sleep, then a needle and its all over. This should be a dignified choice and option for people that are able to make that decision for themselves.

much better than the "tall building" approach currently in practice... I would like a few days to relax and go out in a peaceful state of mind... do you have any several day packages? 

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, JAFO said:

Yep,

Think about the quality of life. People try and hold on far too long. I admired my Gma, she was diagnosed with cancer and she said "No Treatment". "Make me comfortable until I go" and that we did. She stayed at home, lasted about 3 months and passed. She told me she was not going to be a guinea pig for doctors and at her age, whats the point? Its not like you recover.

 

I always found the human race odd at times you hit an age then spend every last penny you saved having endless procedures to just "Stay" alive. No quality of life.

 

I fully support euthanasia. I have made it explicitly clear if I am diagnosed with something terminal or I am unable to care for myself, its time to go. 

 

 

Most dementia sufferers are physically healthy, euthanasia is not an answer in that situation.

I agree quality of life is the yardstick. In Australia, WA and Victoria have been progressive in legalising it, opposed of course by the religious ratbags.

My answer to them is; Do what you want with your life. If you want to suffer nobly, good for you. Just don't try to tell me what to do with mine.

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

much better than the "tall building" approach currently in practice... I would like a few days to relax and go out in a peaceful state of mind... do you have any several day packages? 

Yes, the "Mystery option" you're booked in for two weeks, but you never know which drink its in or when after the 6th day could be day 7 could be day 13 all you know is one night you aint waking up the next day. So you dont see it coming.

[bannork]

12 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Yes, the "Mystery option" you're booked in for two weeks, but you never know which drink its in or when after the 6th day could be day 7 could be day 13 all you know is one night you aint waking up the next day. So you dont see it coming.

Surely you would be checked out on the earliest day possible to save the owner of the business unnecessary expenses.

[Mac98]

15 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

dementia is tough to deal with.  I am 63 now and have seen friends I grew up with in the 1970s even had their great aunts living with them, just living skeletons, sitting in the chair all day long.  Such a drain on the family, patience, frustration, financially, emotionally, etc.  My mom is 90 now and the last of her generation.  Two of my great aunts went alzheimer's but luckily there was enough money in that generation to care for them in facilities.  My Mom is the last of her generation of our fairly large greek family.  My grandmother had 10 brothers and children, that generation has all passed.  Their kids, my aunts and uncles are all gone now, except for my Mom.  Her physical health is good, but she is getting very forgetful, but not senile yet.  Luckily one of my sisters is a nurse and has a house and god bless her and her husband for taking my mother in.  I send money every month.  Really not sure how we would handle this financially if Ma had to go to a facility.  Those places literally charge whatever they think you can afford. 

 

  Not being ghoulish, but there is a lot to be said for the slightly older days, when people went out a bit quicker.  Until and unless you see people wither and linger, I don't think you can really understand that.  Watch them sit around all day in the reclining chair, watch redundant news, Dr Phil, Oprah for hours and hours on end.  They lose interest in things, stop cooking for themselves, etc

Bring back smoking.

[zydeco]

19 hours ago, Just Weird said:

The UK government is not denying it's responsibility, neither is it "forcing anyone to dump those suffering from dementia" in any country, never mind third world countries.

But they're here aren't they. The facts on the ground say otherwise.

[moe666]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:53 AM, gk10002000 said:

dementia is tough to deal with.  I am 63 now and have seen friends I grew up with in the 1970s even had their great aunts living with them, just living skeletons, sitting in the chair all day long.  Such a drain on the family, patience, frustration, financially, emotionally, etc.  My mom is 90 now and the last of her generation.  Two of my great aunts went alzheimer's but luckily there was enough money in that generation to care for them in facilities.  My Mom is the last of her generation of our fairly large greek family.  My grandmother had 10 brothers and children, that generation has all passed.  Their kids, my aunts and uncles are all gone now, except for my Mom.  Her physical health is good, but she is getting very forgetful, but not senile yet.  Luckily one of my sisters is a nurse and has a house and god bless her and her husband for taking my mother in.  I send money every month.  Really not sure how we would handle this financially if Ma had to go to a facility.  Those places literally charge whatever they think you can afford. 

 

  Not being ghoulish, but there is a lot to be said for the slightly older days, when people went out a bit quicker.  Until and unless you see people wither and linger, I don't think you can really understand that.  Watch them sit around all day in the reclining chair, watch redundant news, Dr Phil, Oprah for hours and hours on end.  They lose interest in things, stop cooking for themselves, etc

That is why it is called the beholders disease

[DefaultName]

My mother is in a dementia care home in the UK (vascular dementia, so it isn't progressive like alzheimers).  It costs just over £1,000 a week (about 40,000฿). 

 

The NHS did all they could to help her stay in the house she'd spent most of her life in with carer visits 3 times a day, but eventually she needed 24 hour care, she was a danger to herself - forgetting to drink and collapsed, one time she went out for a bus to town at 9pm, thought it was 9am - to be fair though, it was Scotland in winter, so dark either way. 

 

So the family home of 3 generations got sold to pay for her care, when her savings get down to £23,500 then the local authority will pick up the bill.  She doesn't know this though, she still thinks she has an inheritance to leave us and we're happy to leave her thinking that.

 

I'm the only one who could possibly do day-to-day care as I'm retired, but I just couldn't.  If you've never tried to care for someone in this position - physically sound (for someone in her 90's) but mentally not - it's hard to explain just how hard it is; constant repetition, clear memories from 40 years ago, but nothing from 40 minutes ago, and 24 hour care means just that, someone needs to be checking on her constantly, night and day, you cannot go out, not even to the shops.  Mum keeps trying to open the door and walk home, though 100 yards would be about her limit, these places keep the doors locked for that reason. 

 

The person you know and love just isn't there any more.

 

I will not go out that way, I will make other arrangements if I get that disease.

 

 

To get back to the point of the thread, I would have thought that the move to a radically different culture, climate, everything, would be very hard on them.  For mum, even the move to a UK care home has been rough.  I do understand though, that quality care at a lower price would be very important to anyone without a lot of savings or state aid.  In the end, it's something each family has to decide for their loved one.

Edited January 15, 2020 by DefaultName

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

20 hours ago, Just Weird said:

The UK government is not denying it's responsibility, neither is it "forcing anyone to dump those suffering from dementia" in any country, never mind third world countries.

But they're here aren't they. The facts on the ground say otherwise.

No, there are no facts that say that the government is "forcing dementia sufferers to be dumped in third world countries". 

 

What the article really seemed to be saying was that a few British people have come here for dementia care, voluntarily, because full-time care here may be a bit cheaper than in the UK.  Big difference.

[Just Weird]

19 hours ago, Yinn said:

20 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Looking after a person with dementia isn't easy, it can cause marriage break ups and send you into depression. In the West it is necessary for both husband and wife to work to cover the cost of living,

 

Money for holiday etc

No money take care grandmother?

Who says that those people have enough for holidays but not enough to give full time care to grandparents who need 24 hour a day care, Yinn?   

 

I sympathise with your grandmother's situation but you do not give full time care to your grandmother, you have stated many times that you are out working in a hotel, I detect a little hypocrisy from you on this subject.

 

My father suffered from diagnosed vascular dementia so I do know what I'm talking about, this is not about just taking care of one's elderly parents/grandparents.  Dementia (which does not mean old age) is very different.

[Just Weird]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:12 AM, Yinn said:

Why the family not take care each other? Nobody care?

Very sad.

 

21 hours ago, Yinn said:

My grandmother have it. I take care of her. I know.

 

20 hours ago, Yinn said:

I help care grandmother.

 

19 hours ago, Yinn said:

Grandmother die already. 

Sorry, Yinn, but your claims on this subject do not sit comfortably with each other.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Just Weird

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

No, there are no facts that say that the government is "forcing dementia sufferers to be dumped in third world countries". 

 

What the article really seemed to be saying was that a few British people have come here for dementia care, voluntarily, because full-time care here may be a bit cheaper than in the UK.  Big difference.

The article written on the 1st post is misleading as it ignored the main reasons why families are using care homes in Thailand

From the Guardian article most people are stating quality of care and staff to patient ratio is higher in Thailand than the UK or other western countries

In Thailand, in contrast, 1:1 around-the-clock residential care with fully-qualified staff – in award-winning facilities that look like four-star hotels – costs around £750 a week.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/12/families-sending-relatives-with-dementia-to-thailand-for-care

[Stocky]

15 hours ago, kenk24 said:

much better than the "tall building" approach currently in practice... I would like a few days to relax and go out in a peaceful state of mind... do you have any several day packages? 

Indeed, the 'Pattaya Express' is a rather brutal exit - Charlie's idea of a Hotel Happy Ending is far more appealing. 

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

No, there are no facts that say that the government is "forcing dementia sufferers to be dumped in third world countries". 

 

What the article really seemed to be saying was that a few British people have come here for dementia care, voluntarily, because full-time care here may be a bit cheaper than in the UK.  Big difference.

No difference at all. The government refuses to provide adequate care or reimbursement, so people are dumped. It's a first world country unloading its problems on a third world country. Despicable. 

[JAFO]

16 hours ago, kenk24 said:

It seems there should be a better way to exit, a pre-planned very comfortable gradual morphine-aided 'in a cloud' slow [a couple of weeks maybe?]

I agree. That is exactly how a few people I know went about it (My Gma included). Once you deny treatment they can do nothing but make you comfy.

 

[JAFO]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I agree quality of life is the yardstick. In Australia, WA and Victoria have been progressive in legalising it, opposed of course by the religious ratbags.

My answer to them is; Do what you want with your life. If you want to suffer nobly, good for you. Just don't try to tell me what to do with mine.

That's exactly how I see it. Anyone who has been around Cancer, Alzheimer and Dementia type diseases you immediately say. "No way am I going through that". So will in a sane state of mind one should be able to say that if I am saddled with any of these diseases, there will be no treatment and I would like to schedule my departure please.  Its called Freedom of choice and to go out with a level of dignity. So many are forced into suicide then all the living scream how selfish it is. Well some are not given a viable option so they make a choice.

 

  

[fairbank]

They all send their rubbish here to thailand , how do they even get visa to live here? send them back to their rubbish country of origin.

[RJRS1301]

4 hours ago, Just Weird said:

No, there are no facts that say that the government is "forcing dementia sufferers to be dumped in third world countries". 

 

What the article really seemed to be saying was that a few British people have come here for dementia care, voluntarily, because full-time care here may be a bit cheaper than in the UK.  Big difference.

Family may also be in Thailand

[Don Mega]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:12 AM, Yinn said:

Why the family not take care each other? Nobody care?

Very sad.

I spent 18 months as full time carer for my mother with Dementia.... hardest work Ive ever done.

[i84teen]

I acquired dementia ONLY after moving to Thailand (from UK) in 1999. Go figure.

[androokery]

On 1/14/2020 at 3:07 PM, CharlieH said:

If I had my way there would be a "check-out" Hotel, check-in sign the papers, given a nice drink of your choice that puts you into a deep sleep, then a needle and its all over. This should be a dignified choice and option for people that are able to make that decision for themselves.

Soylent Green is people!

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, androokery said:

Soylent Green is people!

We should be so luck to have that choice

[Odysseus123]

14 hours ago, zydeco said:

No difference at all. The government refuses to provide adequate care or reimbursement, so people are dumped. It's a first world country unloading its problems on a third world country. Despicable. 

I should think that these are private facilities (Thailand) looking for business from elsewhere so I don't think any country is "unloading" its problems.

 

Aged Care is quite a bonanza in the Phillipines and I am very sure that Thailand would want a bigger slice of the pie.

 

There aren't even any figures quoted in the article which is,by the way,a slightly disguised advertisement.

[gk10002000]

18 hours ago, DefaultName said:

My mother is in a dementia care home in the UK (vascular dementia, so it isn't progressive like alzheimers).  It costs just over £1,000 a week (about 40,000฿). 

 

The NHS did all they could to help her stay in the house she'd spent most of her life in with carer visits 3 times a day, but eventually she needed 24 hour care, she was a danger to herself - forgetting to drink and collapsed, one time she went out for a bus to town at 9pm, thought it was 9am - to be fair though, it was Scotland in winter, so dark either way. 

 

So the family home of 3 generations got sold to pay for her care, when her savings get down to £23,500 then the local authority will pick up the bill.  She doesn't know this though, she still thinks she has an inheritance to leave us and we're happy to leave her thinking that.

 

I'm the only one who could possibly do day-to-day care as I'm retired, but I just couldn't.  If you've never tried to care for someone in this position - physically sound (for someone in her 90's) but mentally not - it's hard to explain just how hard it is; constant repetition, clear memories from 40 years ago, but nothing from 40 minutes ago, and 24 hour care means just that, someone needs to be checking on her constantly, night and day, you cannot go out, not even to the shops.  Mum keeps trying to open the door and walk home, though 100 yards would be about her limit, these places keep the doors locked for that reason. 

 

The person you know and love just isn't there any more.

 

I will not go out that way, I will make other arrangements if I get that disease.

 

 

To get back to the point of the thread, I would have thought that the move to a radically different culture, climate, everything, would be very hard on them.  For mum, even the move to a UK care home has been rough.  I do understand though, that quality care at a lower price would be very important to anyone without a lot of savings or state aid.  In the end, it's something each family has to decide for their loved one.

All so true.  My mom at 90 repeats the same thing over and over from years and even decades ago.  Does nothing new, no new memories or experiences to replace the old, since she doesn't do much.  I would not have the patience to sit around and monitor and care, and answer the same questions over and over, try but fail to explain the simplest of tasks over and over. 

Same thing for my childhood neighbor that took in their Great Aunt.  She just sat there, a frail old thing, rarely spoke, added tension and stress to the family. 

 

My family seems to have a pretty good "long life" gene.  All my great aunts and uncles and grandmother from Greece lived until late 80s.  Most of the men too.  My great grandmother lived to be 105.  She went back and forth from greece to the USA on some sailing ships in the late 1800s!  Wish I had more history of her.  She died in 1963 when I was 6. I remember her as the "sick Yaiya" when visiting my Great Aunt's house.  Jesus, she was born in the USA Civil war era!  And she bore 10 children.  One died at birth, one died at 8 years old due to an accident.  The other 8, my grandmother and great aunts and uncle lived on.  Good old Spartan genes I guess