Foreign Currency Account, Bangkok Bank

[Max69xl]

22 hours ago, saengd said:

I'll be extremely surprised if anyone lets you have the midpoint or interbank rate!

 

That said, TW does look good for smaller amounts, much less so for amounts of a couple of thousand however.

If you transfer let's 10k from the US using swift it doesn't matter how much fees you pay at TW. The difference between the mid-market rate from TW and the TT buy rate you get from the receiving thai bank  (+ the receiving fee) will always make TW the winner. Not mentioning the difference in time for the transfers. On top of that, the rate is guaranteed when you're using TW, it's not at the receiving bank in Thailand. 

[nightbird]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Why does an expat in Thailand really need a FCD?

 

With the speed of today's transfers from the home country to Thailand....that is, minutes or hours to a few days....and since the FX market typically oscillates very little on a day-to-day basis...that is, up a little, down a little....plus, a person can get a better exchange rate by using Transferwise....I think the argument of a person needing a FCD is very weak.   

 

Toss in the associated little-to-no interest earned and "no deposit insurance" since only Thai baht accts are covered under the Thailand Deposit Protection Program. 

 

Some might say having a FCD will allow me to repatriate my money easier.  Well, as long as you get a free Credit Advice (easy/fast/free to get) from your Thai bank on any amount you transfer to a regular Thai baht acct that makes it easy (provides the proof) to repatriate the money.

 

While a FCD surely provides benefits to someone like a business sending/receiving a lot of foreign currency transactions, a FCD for the typical expat is probably just a case of a FCD somehow giving the expat a warn & fuzzy feeling of having his home country currency in a Thai bank acct.

 

Nothing against having something that gives a warm & fuzzy feeling, whether it's "really a warm & fuzzy thing--or just an imaged warm & fuzzy.  I have even thought periodically about opening a FCD but I have a hard time justifying it to myself, especially since it has no deposit protection like a Thai baht acct and fast money transfer services like Transferwise give a higher exchange rate than Thai banks.

 

And I'll just add, No, I'm not advocating keeping your money in a Transferwise Borderless Acct for any significant amount of time as this acct is "not" a bank acct, has no deposit protection, etc....it's only a Transferwise acct....Transferwise is very clear about that in their Terms of Agreement.  But a Borderless acct is very good in various ways such as if you receive a lot of payments, need to deal in various currencies, can reduce transfer fees, etc....all depends on each individual's situation.  I have a Borderless Acct for two reasons only: 1) reduce/eliminate Transferwise Bank Debit (ACH) transfer fees, and 2) to speed up the transfer from 1 to 2 business days to to less than 1 business day.  I only use my Borderless acct to hold funds for a "brief" period of time (a few days, a brief transitory period for upcoming transfer funding purposes) since it has no deposit protection like you have when your funds are in your home country bank acct.

 

 

 

There are different reasons people use an FCD account. If you are here for retirement purposes, you need to show a certain amount of money in the bank when you go for your extension of stay. If you keep 800K THB or its equivalent in US$ or other major currency in an FCD and don't touch it, that same amount can be used over and over again to secure your extension of stay each year. Keeping the greater part of your money in a bank in your home country, you could then use Transferwise to fund your living expenses as you need them and when the rates are favorable for exchange. A simple transfer from your home bank to Transferwise, usually no fee if it is a major currency, then convert an amount to THB which opens a new wallet within Transferwise, and then transfer the THB to your Thai savings account getting the best rate possible and a tiny transfer fee compared to what you would be paying from your home country. You could also leave THB in your wallet and use the debit card for purchases at any store in Thailand. The purchases are made in THB. The card is good anywhere in the world and you can use it for purchases or getting cash. 

 

Transferwise may not be a bank in the strictest definition, but it works for me better than any bank I've ever used. 

[topt]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

If you transfer let's 10k from the US using swift it doesn't matter how much fees you pay at TW. The difference between the mid-market rate from TW and the TT buy rate you get from the receiving thai bank  (+ the receiving fee) will always make TW the winner.

Not necessarily true for larger amounts as has been mentioned before.

For $30k US using current TW quote and comparing to current SCB exchange rate a Swift to SCB would garner approximately 1500 baht more after the 500 baht SCB deduction. Depends also what you would pay to make the transfer from your bank and or the transfer to TW - not everybody has the same situation.

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

the rate is guaranteed when you're using TW, it's not at the receiving bank in Thailand. 

That is one of the biggest benefits - depending of course which way the market is moving 

 

In other words for larger amounts (and I can't be bothered to work out the cut off and I am sure it will vary by currency) it may be worth doing a simple check.........

[saengd]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

If you transfer let's 10k from the US using swift it doesn't matter how much fees you pay at TW. The difference between the mid-market rate from TW and the TT buy rate you get from the receiving thai bank  (+ the receiving fee) will always make TW the winner. Not mentioning the difference in time for the transfers. On top of that, the rate is guaranteed when you're using TW, it's not at the receiving bank in Thailand. 

By definition it is not possible for Transferwise to genuinely offer customers the midpoint or mid market rate since that is the interbank rate, meaning TW would be passing the exchange along to the customer at a loss...note, TW is not a Bank.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, nightbird said:

There are different reasons people use an FCD account. If you are here for retirement purposes, you need to show a certain amount of money in the bank when you go for your extension of stay. If you keep 800K THB or its equivalent in US$ or other major currency in an FCD and don't touch it, that same amount can be used over and over again to secure your extension of stay each year.

I've been using the Bt800K method in a Thai bank regular savings acct for a decade to do my annual retirement extension of stay...and it's covered by the Thailand Deposit Protection Program since it's a Thai baht acct. And it earns a little over 1% interest....I could earn more by having it in a "fixed" savings acct but I have it in a hybrid type saving acct that earns 1.1% interest but I can withdraw funds at any time without interest penalty and it comes with a debit card.  In the past I have used fixed saving accts when the rates were much higher.  Summary: a Thai baht acct can be used for extension of stay purposes....just let the money set untouched if desired...use it over and over....the deposit is insured...can have a debit card...etc.

 

However, a FCD with Bt800K worth of USD, GBP, etc., in it has no coverage under the Thailand Deposit Protection Program and earns no or close to no interest....and comes with a variety of fees and minimum balance requirements which a Thai baht acct does not come with.  And usually for a FCD acct a debit card is not allowed--or at least with Bangkok Bank FCD acct they do not offer a debit card.

 

 

 

 

[nightbird]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

I've been using the Bt800K method in a Thai bank regular savings acct for a decade to do my annual retirement extension of stay...and it's covered by the Thailand Deposit Protection Program since it's a Thai baht acct. And it earns a little over 1% interest....I could earn more by having it in a "fixed" savings acct but I have it in a hybrid type saving acct that earns 1.1% interest but I can withdraw funds at any time without interest penalty and it comes with a debit card.  In the past I have used fixed saving accts when the rates were much higher.  Summary: a Thai baht acct can be used for extension of stay purposes....just let the money set untouched if desired...use it over and over....the deposit is insured...can have a debit card...etc.

 

However, a FCD with Bt800K worth of USD, GBP, etc., in it has no coverage under the Thailand Deposit Protection Program and earns no or close to no interest....and comes with a variety of fees and minimum balance requirements which a Thai baht acct does not come with.  And usually for a FCD acct a debit card is not allowed--or at least with Bangkok Bank FCD acct they do not offer a debit card.

 

 

 

 

As I said, there are different reasons folks open an FCD account. The original post concerned the subject of FCD. Do whatever works for you. 

[nightbird]

Just exchanged US$ to THB using TW. I got an exchange rate of 30.50. Xe.com was offering 30.48 at the same time. Did someone say TW doesn't give mid market rates?

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, nightbird said:

Just exchanged US$ to THB using TW. I got an exchange rate of 30.50. Xe.com was offering 30.48 at the same time. Did someone say TW doesn't give mid market rates?

Yes I did and it's a fact. They may however say they do and then charge you a fee on top of the exchange rate which compensates, how much did you pay in TW fees and what was the midpoint at the time of your transaction?

[mrwebb8825]

My situation is probably mega-simple compared to most of you. Didn't mean to start a TW dispute/debate. I have been here 19yrs as stated in my OP. My last transfer from the states using swift was $500 and 14,282.40 TBH was deposited in my SCB account here. That means I ended up with an overall exchange rate of 28.5:1. This was in Sept. 2019 and sent from my mom.

I have no US address or bank account, only Thai. I also don't want to open a US bank account as I do not plan on ever moving back. I don't travel the world nor visit multiple airports (haven't even seen 1 in 8yrs)

I have an SCB account and a KTB account. Both are simple savings. Just looking to the future and trying to plan if I can get better rates by keeping future SSA deposits in USD and moving them once or twice a yr or just live with monthly direct deposits into the accounts I have.

It doesn't effect my visa either way.

[Pib]

38 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

My situation is probably mega-simple compared to most of you. Didn't mean to start a TW dispute/debate. I have been here 19yrs as stated in my OP. My last transfer from the states using swift was $500 and 14,282.40 TBH was deposited in my SCB account here. That means I ended up with an overall exchange rate of 28.5:1. This was in Sept. 2019 and sent from my mom.

I have no US address or bank account, only Thai. I also don't want to open a US bank account as I do not plan on ever moving back. I don't travel the world nor visit multiple airports (haven't even seen 1 in 8yrs)

I have an SCB account and a KTB account. Both are simple savings. Just looking to the future and trying to plan if I can get better rates by keeping future SSA deposits in USD and moving them once or twice a yr or just live with monthly direct deposits into the accounts I have.

It doesn't effect my visa either way.

In getting/calculating an exchange rate of only 28.5 I must assume you allowed your US sending bank to accomplish the exchange on their end or you are using all associated sending & receiving fees in reaching your exchange rate. 

 

If allowing the sending bank to exchange on their end all that does is enrich the sending bank with a healthy/hidden indirect fee through their lower exchange rate which will probably be 2 to 3% lower than the Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers.  Don't allow the sending back to accomplish the exchange...always send USD dollars.  Not uncommon for US bank to push you towards allowing them to accomplish the exchange on their end since they earn more that way in comparison to you sending USD.   The sending fee will probably be higher than the fee if you allow the sending back to accomplish the exchange but it will not be as bad as the indirect fee the bank hits you with through their lower exchange rate.

 

If sending USD (i.e.., you didn't allow the sending bank to accomplished the exchange) then I guess your math to reach the exchange rate given includes sending and receiving fees.

 

Anyway, you will almost always be better off in "in reducing total fees over a period of time" by say doing one or two large transfers every year compared to a transfer each month.  And as mentioned just be sure you are not letting the sending accomplish the exchange on their end.

 

Since you say you don't have a US bank acct I don't know how you are going to kept your future SSA deposits in USD as the SSA will do a direct deposit to a bank acct somewhere in the world or to a DirectExpress Debit card acct--the DirectExpress Debit card is fine for use within the US but very expensive for foreign use/withdrawals.  Then again, maybe you will use a family/friends US bank acct for your SSA payment. Or, you could open a Transferwise Borderless Acct for your SSA payment but just keep in mind the Borderless Acct is "not really a bank acct....it's just a special Transferwise acct that mimics a bank acct in certain ways and has no deposit insurance coverage like you have at a US bank...a borderless acct is fine to help reduce Transferwise transfer costs, holding funds briefly, or if you receive a lot of payments for business purposes, but it's not a place to keep big amounts of money continuously since there is no deposit coverage like you are used to with US bank accts.

 

With SSA now you have two "transfer system options" to have you funds directed deposited to a Thai bank.

(1) the original "ACH" transfer method which has been around for decades which can be used to direct deposit to a Bangkok Bank special direct deposit acct which comes with restrictions like you must physically go to any Bangkok Bank branch to do a withdrawal...you cannot have a debit card for that acct....can only be an acct in your name only.  Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank able to receive ACH payments.  For such payments the exchange rate you receive is their TT Buying Rate which is used for incoming international transfers.   For any Thai bank their TT Buying Rate, even SCB or KTB, is the rate they give when receiving an international transfer.  For fees you are going to experience the Bangkok Bank New York branch pass thru fee of $5 or $10 depending on the payment amount since you are using their ACH routing number and an in-Thailand receiving fee which is generally 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).

 

(2) Or, the new "IDD" transfer method (IDD stand for International Direct Deposit) which uses the SWIFT system/codes and not ACH/ABA routing numbers like the ACH transfer system.  IDD and ACH are to different transfer systems....different rules apply....different animals.  With IDD you can have your SSA payments go to "any" Thai bank (SCB, KTB, K-bank, just any Thai bank)....even to a Bangkok Bank regular/joint owned acct with no restrictions like their special Direct Deposit savings acct required for the ACH system.  With IDD the US Treasury/SSA exchange the USD to THB on their end a few days before the payment date using a wholesale/contractor bank rate.  Right now for Thailand the US Treasury uses Citibank Global as their contractor bank for IDD payments to Thailand. The exchange rate is determined by Citibank Global several days before actual payment...not Citibank-Thailand.  And instead of a Thai bank receiving fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) being charged a "Bahtnet" fee of only Bt100 is charged.  Bahtnet is a major intra-Thailand domestic transfer system...kinda like ACH is in the U.S.   Using the IDD method results in lower total fees however the IDD exchange rate is not as good as Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming USD transfers.  When the "exchange rate and fee dust settles" if your SSA payment is around $800 to $1000 you will usually be better off "total baht posting to your acct" using IDD; if more than $1000 you'll be better off using ACH to a Bangkok Bank acct.   And to repeat, with IDD you can send to "any" Thai bank acct...even a joint acct....have a debit card...no need to physically visit a branch to withdraw funds because you can instead use an ATM or your ibanking.