Coronavirus and N95 Facemasks -- Will they help?

[zyphodb]

3 hours ago, CGW said:

Define "reputable sources" are they the ones that we choose to believe, or the ones we are told are "reputable"?

Google and facebook control most of the news in the present era, if it doesn't fit their criteria, they deem it to be "Fake"!

Difficult to find reputable sources these days, most have already been bought out, or are owned by those that have the most to gain!

You want an example? look no further than the left wing British Brainwashing Corporation.

BBC? Left wing? ???????????? tell that to the Labour party,

   however I do agree with the rest of your post...

[LarryLEB]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

I wore a N95 the other day ... Breathing in this mask feels laboured and when you exhale the outflow seems to go right into the sunglasses, fogging them up. I can imagine these discomforts being further aggravated in hot weather outdoors with sweat and whatnot.

 

The n95 masks with a VALVE are much more comfortable (no fogging of glasses).  Check 3M's site for which of their n95v masks are NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, USA) approved.

Edited January 27, 2020 by LarryLEB
clarity

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

I wore a N95 the other day (I had two brand new ones left over from SARS days).

These things are mighty uncomfortable, expecially on the bridge of the nose where there is a metal 

clamp that moulds it to your face. I was also wearing full wrap around oakleys to protect the eyes.

Breathing in this mask feels laboured and when you exhale the outflow seems to go right into the 

sunglasses, fogging them up. I can imagine these discomforts being further aggravated in hot

weather outdoors with sweat and whatnot.

 

Couple of comments on your experience above:

 

I've been wearing 3M N95 masks for a while now, first for air pollution and now more recently because of the Wuhan virus. For me personally, the metal nose clip portion doesn't bother me at all nor do I find it uncomfortable.

 

However, the part I do find uncomfortable is the exhaling back into the mask, and then sometimes the exhale air going upward out of the mask into my eyes. If it's doing that, AFAIK, it means you don't have a good seal in that location. And it calls for adjusting the mask, which when I've done so, ends up eliminating the updraft into my eyes.

 

As for the general exhaling/stuffiness issue, 3M does make more expensive models of N95 masks that have an exhale valve built into the mask, which supposedly are more comfortable especially in hot/humid weather. The following image below is what that type of mask looks like:

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, LarryLEB said:

 

The n95 masks with a VALVE are much more comfortable (no fogging of glasses).  Check 3M's site for which of their n95v masks are NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, USA) approved.

 

Yup, like the image I just posted above.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, highfive said:

Recent studies have strengthened the evidence that respirators afford greater protection against respirable particles than medical masks. Studies comparing the filtering efficacy of medical masks and certified N95 respirators have found consistently high filtering capacity of N95 respirators and a wide range of filtering performance by medical masks (Qian et al., 1998; Oberg and Brosseau, 2008; Rengasamy et al., 2008, 2009). N95 respirators are tested as part of the NIOSH certification process to determine if they meet the criteria to filter out at least 95 percent of particles that are 0.3 μm in size (42 CFR Part 84). Studies by Lee and colleagues (2008) and Balazy and colleagues (2006) used aerosols of similar particle size range to bacteria and viruses (0.04–1.3 μm) and found that while some N95 respirators allowed slightly greater than 5 percent particle penetration, they had protection factors that were 8 to 12 times greater than those of medical masks. A recent study of nine types of medical masks by Oberg and Brosseau (2008) found wide variations in particle penetration (4 percent to 90 percent) through medical mask filters. The study also found that the majority of the medical masks failed the qualitative fit tests and all failed the quantitative fit tests. At the workshop, discussion focused on filtration principles that show that the aerodynamic behavior of an aerosol particle is based on its size, density, and shape (i.e., a 0.3 μm latex sphere behaves in a similar manner to a particle of the same size, density, and shape that may carry a virus).

 

Using particles less than 1 μm, a study of total leakage through medical masks worn by 25 subjects found that the contribution to total leakage into the medical mask was 5 percent to 8 percent from filter leakage and 25 to 38 percent from faceseal leakage (Grinshpun et al., 2009). In that study, N95 respirator contribution to total leakage was less than 1 percent from filter leakage and 3 to 5 percent from faceseal leakage.

 

Source: https://www.nap.edu/read/12748/chapter/2

 

-

 

The best thing to use is a mask with NIOSH N95 or FFP3 certification.

 

Thanks for contributing those research-based conclusions re the value of wearing N95 class masks!

 

The wife and I were out shopping today, and passed by a busy pharmacy in BKK... They had a queue of Thais lined up buying boxes and boxes of the cheap paper, drugstore style masks, which I think are referred to in the findings you quoted as "medical masks."

 

I didn't see any Thais there buying the more expensive N95 masks, but I'm also not sure if the pharmacy had any for sale in bulk, and clearly the buyers I was watching were buying in bulk quantities.

 

 

 

[simon43]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

new chinese protective virus suits available .....

You've been browsing that sex toy website again... ????

[CGW]

46 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

BBC? Left wing? ???????????? tell that to the Labour party,

Communist? 

[CNXexpat]

"But in a reminder of how deadly the respiratory virus can be, federal health officials estimate that as many as 16,000 people have died (in the USA) of flu this season (2019)..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/02/14/this-years-flu-vaccine-is-doing-well-deaths-are-still-high/?fbclid=IwAR3o66egvLxu3ky6FJ4Zblk4IGl0SNRqvfIIVlUUTrP3PYxo849hHtzT3pI

 

Why is the world panicking about the Coronavirus? The risk of contracting influenza and dying is much higher.

[JHolmesJr]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

Why is the world panicking about the Coronavirus? The risk of contracting influenza and dying is much higher.

 

so whats your advice? just embrace it?

[CNXexpat]

1 minute ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

so whats your advice? just embrace it?

No, but also don´t panic. In winter the flu is all over the US and Europe and it´s much more risky and deadly than the Coronavirus. People should wear masks from October till March to for protection of the flu, also imported to Thailand - but nobody does.

[HHTel]

Quote

There are two common kinds: surgical masks and N95 respirators.

 

N95 respirators filter out most airborne particles from the surrounding air, preventing wearers from breathing in particles down to 0.3 microns in diameter. These types of masks are often used when air quality is poor due to wildfire smoke or pollution, and they're designed to be tightly fitted. However, the coronavirus is 0.12 microns in diameter. 

 

Surgical masks, meanwhile, are designed to keep large particle droplets and splatter from passing from a person's mouth to nearby surfaces or people. They're meant to keep healthcare providers from spreading their own mouth-borne germs to patients.

 

Health experts say that for the average person, the masks are not as effective as everyday measures like hand-washing and avoiding close contact with anyone who might be infected.

It would appear, on the face of it, that surgical masks, which is what most people are wearing, are pretty useless.  I've not seen any of the public wearing N95 masks which are quite different.

[Tounge Thaied]

Betty H. Olson

Professor, Environmental Health, Science, and Policy

School of Social Ecology

Professor, Community & Environmental Medicine

School of Medicine

PH.D., University of California, Berkeley is reporting that you will need a "AntiViral" mask that will filter down to the 0.12 micron level.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/esggkp/just_in_3m_air_pollution_masks_dont_protect/

[ThaiBrian]

14 minutes ago, hrrecruiter said:

This mask by 3M is being advertised to protect against Corona & Pollution - delivered home via lazada

 

https://bit.ly/37r1fQi

That is an absolute rip off. I bet 5 days ago, those sold for 30 baht a piece. 

 

Its just a marketing tactic and price gouging. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by ThaiBrian

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, hrrecruiter said:

This mask by 3M is being advertised to protect against Corona & Pollution - delivered home via lazada

 

https://bit.ly/37r1fQi

 

Have to be careful about potential fake/counterfeit masks being sold online, especially from unknown 3rd party re-sellers on places like Lazada. Generally, it's better to stick to purchases from known, established (hopefully) reputable sellers.

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Betty H. Olson

Professor, Environmental Health, Science, and Policy

School of Social Ecology

Professor, Community & Environmental Medicine

School of Medicine

PH.D., University of California, Berkeley is reporting that you will need a "AntiViral" mask that will filter down to the 0.12 micron level.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/esggkp/just_in_3m_air_pollution_masks_dont_protect/

 

And then that post immediately drew the following comments, which make more sense to me:

 

Quote

 

N95 does help, as the virus isn’t going to be free floating. It will be in some sort of respiratory droplet. There have been a few studies looking at this.

https://www.healthline.com/health/cold-flu/mask#1

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190903134732.htm

 

 

Quote

level 2

drmike0099

 

24 points·4 days ago

 

This is the correct answer. The virus from a sneeze or cough is contained in a small droplet, down to ~0.5 microns, they're not independently aerosolized. In theory, you can aerosolize virus particles, but that doesn't happen naturally.

 

 

[Presnock]

Latest news I have seen/heard concerning the Coronavirus is that an infected individual could possibly not have any indications of infection from 1-15 days after contracting the disease.  This indicates to me that all those being passed by immigration health workers at the airport or ports of entry could be passing infected individuals who could be infecting all their fellow travellers or locals as they tour around Thailand.  It would seem to me to be prudent in where one goes on a daily basis, as everyone could be a carrier if the 1-15 days before showing indications but the individual could still be contagious and possibly passing the virus on to anyone/everyone.  I don't know if this is true or not, but heard it on CNN or NBC news broadcast.

[mayview]

The N95 mask/filter material does exclude the virus respiratory droplets as others have mentioned. It is used in configurations in medical and clinical research settings. The unknown is its effectiveness in the outside world and this is a very real question. The 95 mask is one of the good places to start looking for effective ways to protect the broader society and a tool for research in effective barriers against the infection transmission. It probably won't be the magic protective bullet. (?)

Edited January 27, 2020 by mayview
incomplete

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Came across this from 3M just in the past couple days:

 

3M Product Availability Update re 2019 Novel Coronavirus End Customer.pdf

 

And this advisory from 3M summarizing the current guidance from the U.S. CDC and the WHO:

 

3M NovelCoronavirusOutbreak_TDB.pdf

 

And, 3M comparison of N95 (U.S.) vs FFP2 (E.U.) vs KN95 (China) class masks:

 

Comparison_FFP2_KN95_N95_Filtering_Facepiece_Respirator_Classes.pdf

 

Quote

As shown in the following summary table, respirators certified as meeting these standards can be expected to function very similarly to one another, based on the performance requirements stated in the standards and confirmed during conformity testing. Therefore, it is reasonable to consider a China-certified KN95 FFR “equivalent” to a US NIOSH N95 FFR and a European FFP2 FFR for filtering non-oil-based particles such as those resulting from wildfires, PM 2.5 air pollution, volcanic eruptions, or bioaerosols (e.g. viruses). However, prior to selecting a respirator, users should consult their local respiratory protection regulations and requirements or check with their local public health authorities for selection guidance.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Latest news I have seen/heard concerning the Coronavirus is that an infected individual could possibly not have any indications of infection from 1-15 days after contracting the disease.  This indicates to me that all those being passed by immigration health workers at the airport or ports of entry could be passing infected individuals who could be infecting all their fellow travellers or locals as they tour around Thailand.  It would seem to me to be prudent in where one goes on a daily basis, as everyone could be a carrier if the 1-15 days before showing indications but the individual could still be contagious and possibly passing the virus on to anyone/everyone.  I don't know if this is true or not, but heard it on CNN or NBC news broadcast.

 

The current guidance from the medical community is that the coronavirus does appear to be contagious in patients during the up to 2 week incubation period prior to symptoms showing.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, Jane Dough said:

I've got some "pertinent info" for you.

 

Hoping to "encourage an educated, authoritative discussion" on an internet forum is about as sensible as breaking into Wuhan for a family holiday.

 

Rooster

 

As you should well understand, TVF is only as useful, or puerile, as its individual member contributions make it. 

[edwardandtubs]

6 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

It is smaller ;( which explains why these masks are useless against it )

see here : Post 13 by samuttodd :

 

" The new Coronavirus is approx 0.12 microns in size!

Any of the current filter masks N series (95,99,100) have the ability to block particles that are 0.3
microns and greater. The new Coronavirus is smaller then the minimum size these masks can
protect you from. "

 

post 13 

What you're saying is completely false. It simply isn't true that N95 masks don't filter particles smaller than 0.3 micron. That number is used because it is the most difficult size to filter. Larger particles get caught in the mesh of the filter while smaller sizes move in zigzags so easily stick. So in fact the virus would be more likely to be filtered than a 0.3 micron particle.

[Nyezhov]

I carry a bottle of vodka and keep soaking the mask. 

[OffshoreMig]

6 hours ago, Beggar said:

There is a problem. If you order something from China now for how long do you need to put the products into quarantine before you can unpack them?

14 to 21 days

 

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

no masks in Pattaya all sold out it seems .

Don't worry, flu isn't the only thing they export from China - they also make the masks over there

[Tounge Thaied]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

What you're saying is completely false. It simply isn't true that N95 masks don't filter particles smaller than 0.3 micron. That number is used because it is the most difficult size to filter. Larger particles get caught in the mesh of the filter while smaller sizes move in zigzags so easily stick. So in fact the virus would be more likely to be filtered than a 0.3 micron particle.

The ‘N95’ designation means that when subjected to careful testing, the respirator blocks at least 95 percent of very small (0.3 micron) test particles. If properly fitted, the filtration capabilities of N95 respirators exceed those of face masks. However, even a properly fitted N95 respirator does not completely eliminate the risk of illness or death.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/masks-and-n95-respirators

Airborne-particulate-size-chart.svg

[sucit]

Isn't it entirely possible that a facemask could get some infected material on it, and facilitate infection? 

[Gulfsailor]

3 minutes ago, sucit said:

Isn't it entirely possible that a facemask could get some infected material on it, and facilitate infection? 

That’s very unlikely as the filter material keeps the virus particles stuck really well in there. You shouldn’t of course decide to wear a used mask inside out as you would normally do with your underwear. ????

[sucit]

All I know is if you look closer at people wearing these masks (many of them at least), there will be a big gap sometimes near the cheek area where unfiltered air just seeps in. Maybe some masks make a perfect seal but the ones i see look completely, utterly useless. In fact, as i said above, could it not be likely a mask gets infected and then you are putting it up to your nose and face. 

[sucit]

6 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

That’s very unlikely as the filter material keeps the virus particles stuck really well in there. You shouldn’t of course decide to wear a used mask inside out as you would normally do with your underwear. ????

Ok, let's assume that is true. 

 

I get on the bts. Let's just stipulate I now grab a railing that was infected. Material is on my hands. Now I get to work, and I handle the mask with my infected hands to take it off. Later I put the mask back on. 

 

Is this only making sense to me? It does not seem like it would be effective at all. In fact, it could cause infection by having a thing you are handling all day right up to your nose and mouth.

 

If someone say sneezes on you it is going in the eyes anyway. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by sucit

[DaRoadrunner]

Fear not, the Thais will come up with the total body condom so sex tourists will still be able to visit Thailand.

 

Seriously though, where can we buy the 3M Company N95 mask?