Debt crisis with girlfriend

[NorthernRyland]

My girlfriend of 7 years has good government job in Chiang Mai (in my opinion) which pays 38,000/month and provides free housing. She's had this job since being out of university and she's 40 now. Since last year the yearly bonus they receive has been cut from 7% to about 0.7% and she's been having crippling money issues ever since. Sadly this coincided with the one time in the last 10 years I had a good paying job back home and got to save some money (I'm back in Chiang Mai now).

 

The latest crisis is that apparently she's been ordered to court next month to pay one of the debts which is a personal line of credit that she's been using to pay for other debts (from City Bank). Again, if you can believe it, she claims an old boyfriend before me was able to con her into lending him 1.5 million baht 10+ years ago and she's been on the line for it ever since (500+k left). She also just bought a new car last year (600k) because the old one was starting to fail. (face palm). I still can't believe with her income she's had to resort to taking out debt to pay other debt.

 

The pressing issue is they've made an offer that if she pays 55k by tomorrow they will reduce the principle by 55k which means she still has to pay 120k by next month. She of course needs the 55k from me.

 

She's never had a history of asking for money until just this last year but I really find this all impossible to believe due to the utter stupidity of it.

 

My questions:

 

1) Does this sound like total nonsense? She's never had a history of lying but this is so insane/stupid and I just can't accept it.

 

2) What do Thais do in this situation? They already take payments directly out of her paycheck but will they reposes the car or something? My instinct is file for bankruptcy since she has assets besides a car but can you even do that in Thailand? It's so sad but the first 15 years of her working career has resulted in 0 savings, 0 money earning assets and debt. What a shame.

 

I'd be curious if anyone has any ideas about what I should make of it because I'm in disbelief currently.

[CharlieH]

One of the issues here is we in the west take a totally different view and considerations where loans and debt is concerned.

Thais very much live in the moment and worry about next month etc when it gets here. As bizarre at it may seem to western thinking, its totally believable by Thai thinking, based on my experience.

 

Help if you want, its your money after all, but consider any money you help with to be a gift as its unlikely to be returned.

Personally, unless you are invested in her emotionally, I would stay well out of it.

If she means a lot to you, help as best and as far as you are comfortable with but dont make the mistake of trying to be the white knight !

[BritManToo]

She transfers all vehicles and property that's in her name to another family member.

If the cars on a loan, it'll be repossessed, no choice.

She then lets them take her to court over the debt, and it'll probably be written off if not repaid in 5 years.

During the 5 years, she won't be allowed property/vehicles/bank accounts in her name.

 

Best not to give her money, the requests will never cease, unless you want to pay off the whole debt.

Edited January 30, 2020 by BritManToo

[Orton Rd]

Tell her to sell the gold, she's probably got enough there to pay a chunk off

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In my experience, a lot of Thai women have zero sense of prudent financial management in the modern world...when it comes to sensible handling of loans, credit cards, other kinds of debt, rationally deciding what they can afford and what they can't afford before making a purchase, resisting pleas from family members to drain them of whatever money they have, etc etc.

 

Thus, I'm not at all surprised about the situation your GF claims to find herself in. She might be telling the sad truth, or, she might be spinning tales. Dunno if you've had any ability to look at and verify the various financial documents that she's talking about.

 

I went thru a more minor version of this same kind of thing with my wife a couple years back where she had promised me she was saving money from a very good salary (something I never had any reason to verify up to that point), but instead had blown all her savings and then run up lots of credit card bills giving questionable funds to one of her siblings.  Something that I finally figured out and confronted her about.

 

I almost dumped her over that caper, but in the end, opted for seizing her credit cards (with her consent) and putting her on a monthly repayment plan that eventually eliminated all her debt after a year or so... Because virtually all of her salary every month was going to pay off her debt, and not being spent on anything else.  And from that point forward I took a much more active role in monitoring her finances of all sorts, including direct access to her various accounts. And with the warning that if she EVER did anything like that again, she'd quickly find herself out the door. PS - I didn't pay for any of that debacle.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Best not to give her money, the requests will never cease, unless you want to pay off the whole debt.

That's what it feels like. I already sent her 6000/month for that last 6 months or so and paid her insurance which was 18k. My fear is that I've unlocked something in her brain and now it's going to be sick Dad next month and then sick buffalo the month after that.

 

Again she's never had a history of this but it's so suspicious. It feels like giving her money is making her money problems worse and she has no plan into the future even though it's very easy to predict how this needs to managed. 

 

Speaking of that, why did the bank just decide that it's next month or she's going to court? All she can do is keep making the monthly payment so it doesn't seem to be in the interest of the bank to enforce this arbitrary time limit, unless she's lying to me of course.

[holy cow cm]

If you cannot afford to dig her out then it will be the ongoing sliding downwards bummer relationship. New cars cost 12-15-18k a month depending on monthly terms, and 38k per month salary is nothing. But bottom line is 175k is not that much for someone you Love and will stay with. Just put a leash on it afterwards. 

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, genericptr said:

and she has no plan into the future

You are her plan for the future.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, genericptr said:

All she can do is keep making the monthly payment so it doesn't seem to be in the interest of the bank to enforce this arbitrary time limit, unless she's lying to me of course.

 

Thai people often seem to have a very flexible definition of truth telling when it comes to financial matters, especially if they think they can get someone else to bail them out by fudging the facts.

 

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thai people often seem to have a very flexible definition of truth telling when it comes to financial matters, especially if they think they can get someone else to bail them out by fudging the facts.

 

That sounds plausible. This kind of lying is a deal breaker back home but I don't know how to feel about with the Thais. Doesn't feel good to say the least.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, genericptr said:

That sounds plausible. This kind of lying is a deal breaker back home but I don't know how to feel about with the Thais. Doesn't feel good to say the least.

There's no shortage of potential gfs with less financial baggage.

I know what I'd do.

[samsensam]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thai people often seem to have a very flexible definition of truth telling when it comes to financial matters, especially if they think they can get someone else to bail them out by fudging the facts.

 

 

agree, when dealing with thais it's always important to stick to facts and logic, they can spin the most implausible of tales surrounded by lack of clarity and vagueness - which bizarrely foreigners and other thais fall for. if you decide to hep her, and i wouldn't as it sets a precedent you probably dont need, then i'd make sure she lays out all the information and facts to you so you clearly understand the whole situation, and have an agreement about responsible financial management going forward, before you hand over a setang

 

 

[observer90210]

On money issues in Thailand, should it be with women or other dealings like real estate...always watch your back and trust only with strong suspicion....mainly when it involves farang real estate developpers, insurers etc. who are amongst the biggest cheats in Thailand...just like many Thai's are helas.

[NorthernRyland]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

In my experience, a lot of Thai women have zero sense of prudent financial management in the modern world

Do you think we should cut them some slack because of how fast their world has been changing? I've been in Thailand since 2005 and seen rapid change so maybe all these ideas of debt are totally new to the culture? For me personally  there's always been financial advice available and the previous generations seemed to have a handle on things in a way the Thais clearly do not. I've also seen friends of mine take out insane student loan debts with the promise of high paying jobs that never came so there's that...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Do you think we should cut them some slack because of how fast their world has been changing? I've been in Thailand since 2005 and seen rapid change so maybe all these ideas of debt are totally new to the culture? For me personally  there's always been financial advice available and the previous generations seemed to have a handle on things in a way the Thais clearly do not. I've also seen friends of mine take out insane student loan debts with the promise of high paying jobs that never came so there's that...

 

The question I think you or anyone else similarly situated ought to be asking themselves is -- is this someone who I can trust and rely on in a future relationship to not put your collective financial affairs in the dumper?  If not, then your path is clear.

 

[Yinn]

Easy to know if she lie.

 

the bank send her document about this already.

The loan, and the payment she say they want now. And the 55 discount.

 

Ask her to copy and send for you. 

 

If you can not read thai and have no thai friend, send me PM and I will check what it say. 

If she refuse send to you = lie.

 

Easy way.

[tifino]

how could have not known, for all those years? 

 

 

you could pay it all out in toto...

and have her (and family) agree to, that it's your SinSod done and dusted 

 

or has she pulled it over their heads, that you still don't know anything? 

and you are being expected to keep up her story...

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

is this someone who I can trust and rely on in a future relationship to not put your collective financial affairs in the dumper?

No way can she be trusted with money. That much is clear.

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, tifino said:

how could have not known, for all those years? 

She has no history of this behavior whatsoever. Never asked me for anything until 12 months ago.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, genericptr said:

No way can she be trusted with money. That much is clear.

 

Everyone can make a mistake sometimes, and within reason be forgiven for said mistake.

 

But if there's a pattern of recurring behavior there, or any evidence of deception/dishonesty on her part, that would be my breaking point.

Edited January 30, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, genericptr said:

She has no history of this behavior whatsoever. Never asked me for anything until 12 months ago.

All that means is she chose to keep it from you until she thought you were ready to "help" ?

[NorthernRyland]

6 minutes ago, Yinn said:

the bank send her document about this already.

The loan, and the payment she say they want now. And the 55 discount.

 

I actually can read Thai (slowly and big words are going to be a problem) and she has the document so I'll have to look it over.

[CNXexpat]

56 minutes ago, genericptr said:

1) Does this sound like total nonsense? She's never had a history of lying but this is so insane/stupid and I just can't accept it.

Thais can be super smart, but with money most of them are super stupid.

 

58 minutes ago, genericptr said:

What do Thais do in this situation?

They go to a loan shark or wait what will happen.

[khunpa]

Honestly, I think it sounds like your girlfriend has a spending problem. 

 

38K plus free housing is a lot of money, especially for Chiang Mai. She should easily be able to live well and pay off her debt. Buying a new car also seems financially unwise if in debt and having issues paying it back. Does she have expensive habits? (Clothes, Makeup, Shoes etc.)

 

Anyway, if you want to stay with her then the only option is to find out total amount of debt (All of it!) and make a future budget/plan.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by khunpa

[CNXexpat]

23 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

There's no shortage of potential gfs with less financial baggage.

You think she has no financial baggage - till the moment the loan shark is ringing at the door.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

32 minutes ago, genericptr said:

That sounds plausible. This kind of lying is a deal breaker back home but I don't know how to feel about with the Thais. Doesn't feel good to say the least.

 

They can play by their rules, but you as a farang also get to play by our rules, and don't have to put up with their financial B.S. if you choose not to.

 

Over the years, my wife has told me horror stories re work colleagues and acquaintances who have totally screwed over their own Thai work colleagues and friends by borrowing large amounts of money and then running away from their personal debts....

 

Thus one of the rules I have for my wife is... you will never loan money to anyone!

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[NorthernRyland]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Everyone can make a mistake sometimes, and within reason be forgiven for said mistake.

If I give her the benefit of the doubt then she made one incredibly stupid mistake with her first boyfriend and she's not recovered from it since then. She's not been smart about it though by doing things like buying new cars but she absolutely insists on the car. It's 10k/month for that payment alone.

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, khunpa said:

Honestly, I think it sounds like your girlfriend has a spending problem. 

 

38K plus free housing is a lot of money, especially for Chiang Mai. She should easily be able to live well and pay off her debt.

Exactly! It's so sad a person at 40 who's been working for 15 years has zero assets. She could have a house paid for in full by now if she was smart about things.

[khunpa]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

They can play by their rules, but you as a farang also get to play by our rules, and don't have to put up with their financial B.S. if you choose not to.

 

Farang women can be just as bad. My ex-wife basically ruined me with her spending. My Thai wife on the other hand works 6 days per week / 12-14 hours per day and pays her own way. (never been in debt too)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Thais can be super smart, but with money most of them are super stupid.

 

 

My wife has a master's degree (MBA) from a private Thai university in BKK... And yet, I had to explain to her at length, repeatedly, why it mattered that she needed to pay off her 28% APR Thai credit card debit before she paid off the remainder of her 18% Thai credit card debit.