Brexit at last: Britain leaves the EU as champagne corks fly

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

speak of superiority complex - case of hard attack this is

 

having full control of tvf/non-brits and their comprehension ? full of one self

 

 

 

Rubbish. The reply was certainly tempered better than the false and antagonistic post that prompted it.

[Nigel Garvie]

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Looks like we do a lot better on trade ex EU.

 

And why don't you show the national debt/GDP charts too?

 

4 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

You have failed to grasp the underlying fundamental issue at hand. The UK's economy is 80% services. It produces few goods others want. So you will not do better with the trade deficit outside the EU. You are now a nation of servants, you have nothing to trade with, goodswise. Only services. It will just get harder for the UK to sell its services outside the EU to its main trading partners, as that chart you posted shows that is the EU. <snip>

4 hours ago, sharksy said:

UK is still a major manufacturer, no 6 in the world I believe?

I have no idea why this graph was chosen, as it goes against the case that you are trying to make. We have a current account deficit with ALL the places mentioned. We do more trade with the EU than anywhere else so the deficit is bigger - simples. Stopping trading with the EU will reduce that debt, but as Logosone has correctly pointed out we are no longer a leading manufacturing nation. Services is most of what we do and what we sell. Since late 1990s when we were 5th in manufacturing, we managed to lose our place. "The country’s relatively strong showing in 2015 follows a long slide down the global manufacturing pecking order as developing nations made inroads" *

 We are now 8th. Our output declined from around 4% of global output to 2.1%

 

As I said "Stopping trading with the EU will reduce that debt". however we will still have to buy what we need from SOMEWHERE, the overall debt remains the same.

 

"And why don't you show the national debt/GDP charts too?" I'm not going to display any graphs, but on debt I would say this:-

Britain has the 2nd largest overall debt in the world, after the US. It is much higher per capita,  and as a % of GDP,  than similarly sized countries in EU, Germany, Italy, France and Spain. 

 

* http://www.madeherenow.com/news/post/2017/01/27/britain-moves-up-the-world-manufacturing-league-table 

 

 

[englishoak]

Oh the salt from all the butthurts is GLORIOUS. ???????????????????? 

 

9 pages and 70% is crying and whining... its WONDERFUL to behold grown men still trying to find justification for losing and crying about whats already happened whilst trying to prove themselves right even though the vast majority already made things happen, its OVER... your posts mean literally nothing and convince no one. 

 

No one has a crystal a ball and these wonkstains just fear the future, what betas they are ... its pathetic, Brexit still happened and no one cares what your opinion is anymore.  ITS DONE

 

Just do yourselves a favour and shut up, you just look and sound as sulky as an exbar GF who dosnt get her way .... about as smart and interesting to listen to as well. 

 

Even the IMF is projecting the UK economy is going to grow faster than the EU's but also like the negative press projections mean nothing . Its the mindset that counts and the UK despite these cowards has millions more optimistic and determined to make the best and success of things and thats what will happen because there is NO other option now... Besides no one listens to the doom mongers anymore and and increasingly hasnt since the original referendum project fear started pumping out the BS. Turns out the more fear mongering the less were convinced.. no one respects a coward. 

 

We have left and things will be just fine, no matter how tough, it will be made to work despite the crybabys who just want to see the UK fail for choosing its own path... tough luck suckers its not going to happen.

 

DEAL WITH IT  ! 

 

????????????????????????????

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by englishoak

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

I have no idea why this graph was chosen, as it goes against the case that you are trying to make. We have a current account deficit with ALL the places mentioned. We do more trade with the EU than anywhere else so the deficit is bigger - simples. Stopping trading with the EU will reduce that debt, but as Logosone has correctly pointed out we are no longer a leading manufacturing nation. Services is most of what we do and what we sell. Since late 1990s when we were 5th in manufacturing, we managed to lose our place. "The country’s relatively strong showing in 2015 follows a long slide down the global manufacturing pecking order as developing nations made inroads" *

 We are now 8th. Our output declined from around 4% of global output to 2.1%

 

As I said "Stopping trading with the EU will reduce that debt". however we will still have to buy what we need from SOMEWHERE, the overall debt remains the same.

 

"And why don't you show the national debt/GDP charts too?" I'm not going to display any graphs, but on debt I would say this:-

Britain has the 2nd largest overall debt in the world, after the US. It is much higher per capita,  and as a % of GDP,  than similarly sized countries in EU, Germany, Italy, France and Spain. 

 

* http://www.madeherenow.com/news/post/2017/01/27/britain-moves-up-the-world-manufacturing-league-table 

 

 

 

 

looks like the logosone nonsense bug is catching

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by nauseus

[englishoak]

Happy new dawn everyone 

Edited February 2, 2020 by englishoak

[shy coconut]

On 2/1/2020 at 12:40 PM, smedly said:

What was Germany's objective from 1900-1945 - European military and political domination and failed twice 

 

What is happening in the EU right now - a simple trading block ?

 

Nope

 

Political Domination and now moving towards a military power - the idea of a simple trading block was lost a long time ago

 

Scotland and SNP has nothing to do with the EU - it is an inherent hate for anything English resurrected in Scotland by a "Republican movement" not dissimilar to N.Ireland's republicans, they don't care about the benefits of being in the UK as one nation - they don't tell the truth about what their so called independence would really mean - they would expect the UK to maintain support just as it is now lol

 

The reality is somewhat different, just like the Republic of Ireland they refuse to accept or admit to the benefits they receive - the ROI has a rude awakening coming and quite frankly so does Scotland if they follow the SNP into oblivion 

 

Scotland would take with it a share of total UK debt which they would be paying off for decades - inward investment from the UK would cease - they would not qualify to join the EU - I would await them begging to rejoin the United Kingdom were they belong 

 

Stupid people

What problems do you envisage the Republic of Ireland having? 

[AussieBob18]

On 2/2/2020 at 1:48 AM, crazygreg44 said:

I disagree with you in one point:  Never in anyone's life time we shall be able to fix it - or "redress" it, as you call it

I think and hope you are wrong.  Many many reasons, but the number one reason is that the People are starting to rebell against all the loony left dogma and political correctness and what it is doing to their lives.  Like all forms of socialism in the past, this current form (liberal socialist democracy), will decay and die because their inherent core beliefs are false. I see no reason for this to not occur again - as long as the People continue to see the bad outcomes of their policies - which is being fuelled by the new social media - which will eventually take over from the old corrupted and fake mainstream media. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by AussieBob18

[AussieBob18]

21 hours ago, howbri said:

Amen to that. The tyranny of the left is being demolished by patriotic and nation loving people starting with POTUS Trump and now Johnson. God bless the patriots and down with the communist globalists.

Thanks - and despite all the vocal liberals on TV, you can be assured that most Expats support this opinion - but they have a life and do not have the time/inclination to debate/argue with the vocal liberals on TV.

[smedly]

42 minutes ago, shy coconut said:

What problems do you envisage the Republic of Ireland having? 

what you think

 

maybe they don't trade with the UK at all, maybe they are spouting on about unfair advantage when their Corp tax is significantly lower that the UK and N Ireland - is that a level playing field 

 

all the ROI are interested in is being able to continue to work - use UK benefits system and freely use our NHS - because their health system has one NHS class hospital in Dublin - yes in the whole country of ROI they have one hospital - the rest are clinics at best and have very poor equipment levels - just use our NHS for free across the border and mainland UK

 

Time to start checking

 

should I continue 

[smedly]

7 hours ago, sharksy said:

Again, so true.  I believe Scotland was furious with Britain for dragging them into the EEC in 1973, now they are furious once again for dragging them out.

 

I believe Brexit will actually be beneficial to Scotlant too.  

all this is about is a general hate of the English - what they fail to realise is that the UK is more than England 

 

I personally have had enough of their misguided ancient hatred - the UK is not England - it is all of us, it is called the UK and Scotland gets more than its share of the spoils, if they continue down this road listening to republican short fat big mouth Blackford hatred then let them go - boot them out, see if Brussels will continue the funding they get from all of the UK people - they will not

 

your shipyards will close - you will not be able to fund your hospitals 

 

I can see it now - Blackford and Sturgeon marching down the road - freedom at last 

 

while the hospitals close down because they have no money

 

Oh maybe little fat Blackford will start a "go fund me" to pay the bills 

 

 

meanwhile the rest of the UK will be waiting for the knock at the door 

 

Did I say stupid people - yes I did but not the general Scottish people who will eventually see through this complete and utter republican nonsense  

[smedly]

Devolution is a great thing but certain populist vote buying options should be excluded

 

 

we have in Scotland free university - LAB put this carrot on their election manifesto also, it should not be allowed unless it is nationwide

 

SNP offer this purely to by votes, when their fund run out for other things they blame the rest of us in the UK for not giving them enough money - oh how easy that is - the rest of the UK can't actually afford the money for free uni fees and quite frankly most of us oppose it anyway - but somehow SNP can afford it...……..who is paying for it - well every tax payer in the UK - WE ARE PAYING FOR THEIR VOTE BUYING POPULIST BULL

 

Time for Westminster to step in - if they cannot afford a properly run NHS and other Infrastructures and services then SNP are not fit for purpose

 

At the very least offering free University fees should be struck off the list of things they are allowed to do

 

we in the rest of the UK are paying for it yet we cannot use it - ? 

Edited February 2, 2020 by smedly

[smedly]

8 hours ago, sharksy said:

Again, so true.  I believe Scotland was furious with Britain for dragging them into the EEC in 1973, now they are furious once again for dragging them out.

 

I believe Brexit will actually be beneficial to Scotlant too.  

of course it will which is why SNP want a vote before next year - local elections

 

SNP don't want it to go to next year because when the Scottish people realise that sticking with the rest of us in the UK is a much better future SNP will be wiped out

[izod10]

2 hours ago, shy coconut said:

What problems do you envisage the Republic of Ireland having? 

The Potato.

  Dear holy mother,mother of god,God bless the POTATO.

  Saviour of Ireland,by golly(sorry,racist word)    Paddy is getting his back bending exercises in motion, the Teesuck guy  the irish PM guy whoever he is  ,now if he catches you bending expect a sore backside for sure

 

     God Bless the Queen

 

[izod10]

4 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

I have no idea why this graph was chosen, as it goes against the case that you are trying to make. We have a current account deficit with ALL the places mentioned. We do more trade with the EU than anywhere else so the deficit is bigger - simples. Stopping trading with the EU will reduce that debt, but as Logosone has correctly pointed out we are no longer a leading manufacturing nation. Services is most of what we do and what we sell. Since late 1990s when we were 5th in manufacturing, we managed to lose our place. "The country’s relatively strong showing in 2015 follows a long slide down the global manufacturing pecking order as developing nations made inroads" *

 We are now 8th. Our output declined from around 4% of global output to 2.1%

 

As I said "Stopping trading with the EU will reduce that debt". however we will still have to buy what we need from SOMEWHERE, the overall debt remains the same.

 

"And why don't you show the national debt/GDP charts too?" I'm not going to display any graphs, but on debt I would say this:-

Britain has the 2nd largest overall debt in the world, after the US. It is much higher per capita,  and as a % of GDP,  than similarly sized countries in EU, Germany, Italy, France and Spain. 

 

* http://www.madeherenow.com/news/post/2017/01/27/britain-moves-up-the-world-manufacturing-league-table 

 

 

Graphs graphs graphs,full of graphs

  Now UK has deficit of 93 billion with EU, the 93 billion can be spent elsewhere in the world,bigger bang for the buck as the saying goes,the overpriced and EU French farmer is being de-bagged as I write,here is my graph,well Im making it right now.....

    UKs overall debt mountain reduced to 1/10   no EU influence,yes  no Barnett formula for Scotland,much more money in Johnny England's pockets.....yes good times ahead   Rejoice

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

speak of superiority complex - case of hard attack this is

 

having full control of tvf/non-brits and their comprehension ? full of one self

 

 

 

When we are bombarded with abuse on a daily basis from certain non-Brits angry about Brexit, calling us racist and xenophobic, it gets a bit annoying. And it does show a lack of intelligence and understanding on their part. 

 

Ok, perhaps I should have put the word 'some' in front of non-Brits. I'll give you that. 

[sharksy]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

all this is about is a general hate of the English - what they fail to realise is that the UK is more than England 

 

I personally have had enough of their misguided ancient hatred - the UK is not England - it is all of us, it is called the UK and Scotland gets more than its share of the spoils, if they continue down this road listening to republican short fat big mouth Blackford hatred then let them go - boot them out, see if Brussels will continue the funding they get from all of the UK people - they will not

 

your shipyards will close - you will not be able to fund your hospitals 

 

I can see it now - Blackford and Sturgeon marching down the road - freedom at last 

 

while the hospitals close down because they have no money

 

Oh maybe little fat Blackford will start a "go fund me" to pay the bills 

 

 

meanwhile the rest of the UK will be waiting for the knock at the door 

 

Did I say stupid people - yes I did but not the general Scottish people who will eventually see through this complete and utter republican nonsense  

Very well informed post.  Witty too.

 

More people in Scotland voted FOR Brexit than voted FOR SNP in the 2017 election.

 

True about the hated of the English.  I have experienced this first hand on a trip to Glasgow.  It did end well though.  The elderly Scott, as he walked away from the bar said to me:  You are the first English person he has met who was alright.  LOL.

[Logosone]

10 hours ago, sharksy said:

I'm a brexiteer - all my properties are rented to Poles.  Certainly not prejudiced.  In fact, if I were selfish, I would have voted remain, better for my business.  But I voted for what is best for Britain.  Sure, there will be a few racists around who voted out or indeed, those areas where mass immigration has had a negative effect, such as Dover and surrounding areas.  But for most people, immigration was not the reason for Brexit.  There are too many reasons why people voted this way.

UK is still a major manufacturer, no 6 in the world I believe?

Just out of curiosity, may I ask why you think it is best for Britain to exit the EU?

 

No, the UK is not the no.6 largest manufacturer in the world, it keeps sliding and is now just about in 8th place, but the key thing is that you are falling. You were higher up, but you are on the decline, your place on the manufacturing league table is falling. Looking at the figures it doesn't take a genius to see what will happen. India has already overtaken you. Yes, India, a largely agrarian nation, now outproduces you in industrial output. ITALY outproduces the UK, for God's sakes, the Italians now produce more than you do!

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/456342/realtive-comparison-of-value-added-in-manufacturing-of-leading-countries/

 

Looking at the figures it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Indonesia and Mexico will soon overtake you. Just like Italy and India did already.

 

In 2011, household, financial, and business debts stood at 420% of GDP in the UK.  As the world's most indebted country, spending and investment were held back after the recession, creating economic malaise. That has NOTHING, but NOTHING to do with the EU, but only with your own underlying issues.

[transam]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The facts in my post, to which the above is your response, are irrefutable.

 

As for the opinions I expressed, maybe one day you will produce a proper counter argument to opinions with which you disagree. But as your response is typical of you, I have yet to see any evidence that you are capable of so doing.

 

Still, you doubtless find it very pleasing that your method does get you plenty of likes from cronies who appear as incapable of putting together a cogent argument as yourself.

 

 

You're back on form....Sadly..????

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

When we are bombarded with abuse on a daily basis from certain non-Brits angry about Brexit, calling us racist and xenophobic, it gets a bit annoying. And it does show a lack of intelligence and understanding on their part. 

 

Ok, perhaps I should have put the word 'some' in front of non-Brits. I'll give you that. 

 

many ways of addressing such abuse, or interpreting rather

 

could consider it as signalling that UK has some strength to offer

 

if there was no more than fog on the foggy island - no "reason" for abuse

 

the abuse level can probably be considered as commensurate with UK's intrinsic value

 

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

No, the UK is not the no.6 largest manufacturer in the world, it keeps sliding and is now just about in 8th place, but the key thing is that you are falling. You were higher up, but you are on the decline,

If this is correct, it is indeed woeful as colinneil commented.

[Logosone]

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

You have only just brought up this underlying fundamental issue. One of the reasons for this imbalance and bias into services is that the EU has assisted and facilitated the shrinkage of British industry over the last 45 years. The EU is the main contributor to the UK's overall trade deficit but the balance with the rest of the world is far better.  

 

I see that you have no comment on the debt issue, at least as important, probably moreso.

 

Oh come on, the decline of British industry has nothing to do with the EU. It long pre-dated EU membership. British industry was in decline by the 70s already, in fact that was part of the reason why you were so desperate to join the Common Market at the time. By facilitating free circulation of goods the EU actually helped you, but the decline of British Industry was unstoppable.

 

In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds, the greatest de-industrialisation of any major nation.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/nov/16/why-britain-doesnt-make-things-manufacturing

 

The reason this happened is that the days of heavy industry are gone, it is not enough to build with your hands anymore. You now have to build with your brains. And the British aren't good at that. It is no longer enough to just make a knife, with the advent of quality German industrial output that knife has to be of top quality. Britain produced mass, it does not produce top quality, bar some few exceptions. Just like in penalties, you can't take on the competition and win. You think you can. But you can't.

 

The loss of manufacturing means Britain no longer pays its way in the world. In 2011 the British bought £97bn more in goods from other countries than they sold to them – the biggest shortfall since 1980. You live on credit basically. Why do you think Britain is selling its valuable assets to foreigners like there is no tomorrow? Because you have no other choice. Have you been to Harlow? I had the misfortune to see what is perhaps the most dystopian, run down place in the EU. I was horrified.

 

I have no comment on debt? Actually I do. I agree it is important. Especially for Britain, because you are, like Greece, relying on foreigners to fund your deficit.  For now Britain still has assets it can flog to foreigners, which it is doing. You may recall even the London Stock Exchange was going to be taken over by Deutsche Boerse AG, the only thing that stopped that was EU competition law. The irony. The EU has been protecting you. Now without the EU the gloves are off, and frankly nobody is betting on the UK. If anything we feel sorry for you. The big creditors will be less inclined to throw money at the UK, now that the link with the EU is gone. Big money will be less likely to move to the UK to live, with the anti-foreigner hysteria, crack down on home-owners from outside the UK has already happened.

 

But the thing is this, with debt you have no way out. Your reduction in your manufacturing base has put millions of people out of work. So you have a huge percentage of the population claiming benefits. You have a huge contingent of older people, despite your ailing and terrible NHS, that will need to be funded. Not just with NHS payments, but also the UK has to go to the capital markets to fund the payouts it gives its huge older population. The younger taxpayers are syphoned as hard as possible, but their tax is not enough to fund the handouts to old age pensioners. So your debt will grow. You will keep having to go to the capital markets to get the money you pay the older population. And guess what? Moody's has already downgraded the UK.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/moodys-downgrades-outlook-on-uks-rating-on-brexit-paralysis.html

 

 

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, transam said:

You're back on form....Sadly..????

...an' straight in with a 'right said fred' lol.

(I keep hearing 'Sonny and Cher'! ????)

[izod10]

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Oh come on, the decline of British industry has nothing to do with the EU. It long pre-dated EU membership. British industry was in decline by the 70s already, in fact that was part of the reason why you were so desperate to join the Common Market at the time. By facilitating free circulation of goods the EU actually helped you, but the decline of British Industry was unstoppable.

 

In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds, the greatest de-industrialisation of any major nation.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/nov/16/why-britain-doesnt-make-things-manufacturing

 

The reason this happened is that the days of heavy industry are gone, it is not enough to build with your hands anymore. You now have to build with your brains. And the British aren't good at that. It is no longer enough to just make a knife, with the advent of quality German industrial output that knife has to be of top quality. Britain produced mass, it does not produce top quality, bar some few exceptions. Just like in penalties, you can't take on the competition and win. You think you can. But you can't.

 

The loss of manufacturing means Britain no longer pays its way in the world. In 2011 the British bought £97bn more in goods from other countries than they sold to them – the biggest shortfall since 1980. You live on credit basically. Why do you think Britain is selling its valuable assets to foreigners like there is no tomorrow? Because you have no other choice. Have you been to Harlow? I had the misfortune to see what is perhaps the most dystopian, run down place in the EU. I was horrified.

 

I have no comment on debt? Actually I do. I agree it is important. Especially for Britain, because you are, like Greece, relying on foreigners to fund your deficit.  For now Britain still has assets it can flog to foreigners, which it is doing. You may recall even the London Stock Exchange was going to be taken over by Deutsche Boerse AG, the only thing that stopped that was EU competition law. The irony. The EU has been protecting you. Now without the EU the gloves are off, and frankly nobody is betting on the UK. If anything we feel sorry for you. The big creditors will be less inclined to throw money at the UK, now that the link with the EU is gone. Big money will be less likely to move to the UK to live, with the anti-foreigner hysteria, crack down on home-owners from outside the UK has already happened.

 

But the thing is this, with debt you have no way out. Your reduction in your manufacturing base has put millions of people out of work. So you have a huge percentage of the population claiming benefits. You have a huge contingent of older people, despite your ailing and terrible NHS, that will need to be funded. Not just with NHS payments, but also the UK has to go to the capital markets to fund the payouts it gives its huge older population. The younger taxpayers are syphoned as hard as possible, but their tax is not enough to fund the handouts to old age pensioners. So your debt will grow. You will keep having to go to the capital markets to get the money you pay the older population. And guess what? Moody's has already downgraded the UK.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/moodys-downgrades-outlook-on-uks-rating-on-brexit-paralysis.html

 

 

 

Never mind sunshine,never mind,those knickers of yours truly are in twist.

 

  today is the third day of freedom,and already companies the world over are queuing at the trade depts door wanting a foothold in the UK  (don't believe me?) web cam  trade dept,The UK is in a glorious mood  really is.....uk.gov  letters being dispatched to all and sundry,well sundry is the operative word   three and a half million of them  kicked out 

    "  Land of hope and glory"

       Land of the Free"

   Sing it lad sing it as you have never done before

 

    ...Land of Hope and Glory.....

[transam]

4 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Never mind sunshine,never mind,those knickers of yours truly are in twist.

 

  today is the third day of freedom,and already companies the world over are queuing at the trade depts door wanting a foothold in the UK  (don't believe me?) web cam  trade dept,The UK is in a glorious mood  really is.....uk.gov  letters being dispatched to all and sundry,well sundry is the operative word   three and a half million of them  kicked out 

    "  Land of hope and glory"

       Land of the Free"

   Sing it lad sing it as you have never done before

 

    ...Land of Hope and Glory.....

 

[xtrnuno41]

A fact is , the EU just failed, it's a piece of <deleted> and only for multinationals, capital offices working.

Not for any of the common people living in the counties.

A drama. I hope the UK will do well now they left. Show them !!

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, xtrnuno41 said:

A fact is , the EU just failed, it's a piece of <deleted> and only for multinationals, capital offices working.

Not for any of the common people living in the counties.

A drama. I hope the UK will do well now they left. Show them !!

 

It would be nice if the UK could prosper outside the EU. Unfortunately the UK has been a failure for much longer, and to a much deeper extent than the EU.  The failure of its industry is staggering, the biggest de-industrialisation of any country in the world, a reduction of two thirds in manufacturing output over a few decades. It has become the most indebted nation in the world, per capita GDP of any of the developed, and some developing countries.

 

Whole swathes of the UK are a dystopian, run down, ugly and crime infested vision of hell, I mention Harlow as an example.

 

The EU of course was helping the UK, protecting it, like when it stopped Deutsche Boerse AG from taking over the LSE, it provided free access to those services and goods the British could still sell. 

 

The EU too, admittedly, has seen some failure, particularly since it allowed little toy countries like Denmark, Sweden, Greece, Cyprus, and such to join. The EU was a success story when it had real countries, strong countries, powerful nations as members. By including quasi-criminal states like Greece, Cyprus and such the EU bought into nothing but problems, and the constant voting caprices of these toy countries has caused grid-lock in the EU. What the EU needs is a strong leadership. It has a lot going for it, a strong currency, free access to markets, free travel, sensible consumer protection, what's not to like?

 

The UK however, well that's the real pile of steaming dog mess, and anyone who thinks that will be fixed by becoming a 'tax haven' a la Jersey, the truth is that will never happen because the UK is a real country and needs its tax revenues like an addict needs crack.

 

And for those that think that Trump will save the UK I can only laugh, as Trump would sell his own mother if his interests are served, besides he's over 70 and won't be around for much longer. 

 

The worst problem the UK has though is the trade deficit, its debt. Those that think 'Oh well, we'll just stop buying from Germany, France and Italy and will just buy from Thailand, Canada and Australia don't understand the issue. You'd have to get them to buy your products as well to reduce the trade deficit. Leaving aside the unlikely scenario of Thais, Canadians and Australians all agreeing unison no to buy Mercedes, Volkswagen, BMW, Zwilling, Renault, Peugot, Alessi or Nutella, but to buy Marmite, Bristols, TVRs and Morgans, do you really think the British will stop buying Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault, or Nutella? The problem is that European products are qualitatively superior, even the Chinese, given a chance, will buy European rather than their own stuff.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Logosone

[izod10]

5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

It would be nice if the UK could prosper outside the EU. Unfortunately the UK has been a failure for much longer, and to a much deeper extent than the EU.  The failure of its industry is staggering, the biggest de-industrialisation of any country in the world, a reduction of two thirds in manufacturing output over a few decades. It has become the most indebted nation in the world, per capita GDP of any of the developed, and some developing countries.

 

Whole swathes of the UK are a dystopian, run down, ugly and crime infested vision of hell, I mention Harlow as an example.

 

The EU of course was helping the UK, protecting it, like when it stopped Deutsche Boerse AG from taking over the LSE, it provided free access to those services and goods the British could still sell. 

 

The EU too, admittedly, has seen some failure, particularly since it allowed little toy countries like Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, Greece, Cyprus, and such to join. The EU was a success story when it had real countries, strong countries, powerful nations as members. By including quasi-criminal states like Greece, Cyprus and such the EU bought into nothing but problems, and the constant voting caprices of these toy countries has caused grid-lock in the EU. What the EU needs is a strong leadership. It has a lot going for it, a strong currency, free access to markets, free travel, sensible consumer protection, what's not to like?

 

The UK however, well that's the real pile of steaming dog mess, and anyone who thinks that will be fixed by becoming a 'tax haven' a la Jersey, the truth is that will never happen because the UK is a real country and needs its tax revenues like an addict needs crack.

 

And for those that think that Trump will save the UK I can only laugh, as Trump would sell his own mother if his interests are served, besides he's over 70 and won't be around for much longer. 

 

The worst problem the UK has though is the trade deficit, its debt. Those that think 'Oh well, we'll just stop buying from Germany, France and Italy and will just buy from Thailand, Canada and Australia don't understand the issue. You'd have to get them to buy your products as well to reduce the trade deficit. Leaving aside the unlikely scenario of Thais, Canadians and Australians all agreeing unison no to buy Mercedes, Volkswagen, BMW, Zwilling, Renault, Peugot, Alessi or Nutella, but to buy Marmite, Bristols, TVRs and Morgans, do you really think the British will stop buying Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault, or Nutella? The problem is that European products are qualitatively superior, even the Chinese, given a chance, will buy European rather than their own stuff.

 

 

Again,never mind,do not let it bother you,its all coming back sunshine,..The EU is finished in all but name,12 more months and the rot will be truly set in

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Again,never mind,do not let it bother you,its all coming back sunshine,..The EU is finished in all but name,12 more months and the rot will be truly set in

I think only failing countries, like the UK, would exit the EU, where large swathes of unemployed, jealous of their own handouts begrudge the social benefits Poles, Romanians and such are given. They may then blame the EU for their misery, as happened in the UK, out of ignorance.

 

If that were to happen, if more weak, failing countries leave the EU, that would only make the EU stronger. If it had stuck to the original membership, that would have been best really. Who needs toy countries, criminal countries and failing countries?

 

Either way the EU wins.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Oh come on, the decline of British industry has nothing to do with the EU. It long pre-dated EU membership. British industry was in decline by the 70s already, in fact that was part of the reason why you were so desperate to join the Common Market at the time. By facilitating free circulation of goods the EU actually helped you, but the decline of British Industry was unstoppable.

 

In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds, the greatest de-industrialisation of any major nation.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/nov/16/why-britain-doesnt-make-things-manufacturing

 

The reason this happened is that the days of heavy industry are gone, it is not enough to build with your hands anymore. You now have to build with your brains. And the British aren't good at that. It is no longer enough to just make a knife, with the advent of quality German industrial output that knife has to be of top quality. Britain produced mass, it does not produce top quality, bar some few exceptions. Just like in penalties, you can't take on the competition and win. You think you can. But you can't.

 

The loss of manufacturing means Britain no longer pays its way in the world. In 2011 the British bought £97bn more in goods from other countries than they sold to them – the biggest shortfall since 1980. You live on credit basically. Why do you think Britain is selling its valuable assets to foreigners like there is no tomorrow? Because you have no other choice. Have you been to Harlow? I had the misfortune to see what is perhaps the most dystopian, run down place in the EU. I was horrified.

 

I have no comment on debt? Actually I do. I agree it is important. Especially for Britain, because you are, like Greece, relying on foreigners to fund your deficit.  For now Britain still has assets it can flog to foreigners, which it is doing. You may recall even the London Stock Exchange was going to be taken over by Deutsche Boerse AG, the only thing that stopped that was EU competition law. The irony. The EU has been protecting you. Now without the EU the gloves are off, and frankly nobody is betting on the UK. If anything we feel sorry for you. The big creditors will be less inclined to throw money at the UK, now that the link with the EU is gone. Big money will be less likely to move to the UK to live, with the anti-foreigner hysteria, crack down on home-owners from outside the UK has already happened.

 

But the thing is this, with debt you have no way out. Your reduction in your manufacturing base has put millions of people out of work. So you have a huge percentage of the population claiming benefits. You have a huge contingent of older people, despite your ailing and terrible NHS, that will need to be funded. Not just with NHS payments, but also the UK has to go to the capital markets to fund the payouts it gives its huge older population. The younger taxpayers are syphoned as hard as possible, but their tax is not enough to fund the handouts to old age pensioners. So your debt will grow. You will keep having to go to the capital markets to get the money you pay the older population. And guess what? Moody's has already downgraded the UK.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/08/moodys-downgrades-outlook-on-uks-rating-on-brexit-paralysis.html

 

 

 

 

I really don't need the lesson in economic history. As usual you don't read what others write before spouting off but if, indeed. in the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds, then what has been the great benefit of EU membership?

 

How you can possibly compare the UK to Greece, I have no idea.

 

The EU has been protecting you? Disagree entirely. 

 

Now without the EU the gloves are off, and frankly nobody is betting on the UK. Read this: 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-holds-more-foreign-investment-than-germany-and-france-combined

 

Debt is a problem globally and guess what? Moody's has recently downgraded the outlooks (repeat outlooks) for the UK AND, France and Germany.

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

It would be nice if the UK could prosper outside the EU. Unfortunately the UK has been a failure for much longer, and to a much deeper extent than the EU.  The failure of its industry is staggering, the biggest de-industrialisation of any country in the world, a reduction of two thirds in manufacturing output over a few decades. It has become the most indebted nation in the world, per capita GDP of any of the developed, and some developing countries.

 

Whole swathes of the UK are a dystopian, run down, ugly and crime infested vision of hell, I mention Harlow as an example.

 

The EU of course was helping the UK, protecting it, like when it stopped Deutsche Boerse AG from taking over the LSE, it provided free access to those services and goods the British could still sell. 

 

The EU too, admittedly, has seen some failure, particularly since it allowed little toy countries like Denmark, Sweden, Greece, Cyprus, and such to join. The EU was a success story when it had real countries, strong countries, powerful nations as members. By including quasi-criminal states like Greece, Cyprus and such the EU bought into nothing but problems, and the constant voting caprices of these toy countries has caused grid-lock in the EU. What the EU needs is a strong leadership. It has a lot going for it, a strong currency, free access to markets, free travel, sensible consumer protection, what's not to like?

 

The UK however, well that's the real pile of steaming dog mess, and anyone who thinks that will be fixed by becoming a 'tax haven' a la Jersey, the truth is that will never happen because the UK is a real country and needs its tax revenues like an addict needs crack.

 

And for those that think that Trump will save the UK I can only laugh, as Trump would sell his own mother if his interests are served, besides he's over 70 and won't be around for much longer. 

 

The worst problem the UK has though is the trade deficit, its debt. Those that think 'Oh well, we'll just stop buying from Germany, France and Italy and will just buy from Thailand, Canada and Australia don't understand the issue. You'd have to get them to buy your products as well to reduce the trade deficit. Leaving aside the unlikely scenario of Thais, Canadians and Australians all agreeing unison no to buy Mercedes, Volkswagen, BMW, Zwilling, Renault, Peugot, Alessi or Nutella, but to buy Marmite, Bristols, TVRs and Morgans, do you really think the British will stop buying Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Renault, or Nutella? The problem is that European products are qualitatively superior, even the Chinese, given a chance, will buy European rather than their own stuff.

 

 

You really don't like the UK much, do you? I can tell you know.

Edited February 3, 2020 by nauseus