Make a will in Thailand

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, nglodnig said:

As I understand it our wills are lodged with some sort of Thai court - so are watertight. Crossing your fingers and hoping your (foreign) translated wills will work, hopefully many years later down the line, is optimistic. 

You can make your will in Thailand at the local amphur office (local government administration ofice), I'll add further comments on this route in bullet points:

 

- The will would be in Thai language but you can of course get an outside office to do a translation to English. But be sure the translation is done by a capable person (going to a simple shop front which advertsies translation can be less than satisfactory, some of these places just use Google translate which is less than acceptable).

 

- The staff at the amphur office who would help are not lawyers and there are plenty of examples of these folks giving their personal advice and all sounding like it's the law. Example: My Thai nephew wanted to make his will and his Thai wife convinced him to go (together) to the amphur office. Lady officer told my nephew that it's compulsory in Thailand for Thai men to leave, in their will, 100,000 to their mother in law. Nephew was doubtful so he said he needed to attend to something and left the amphur office. He contacted an old uni friend who had also studied law, lawyer indictaed there is no such law and there never will be. Lawyer also offered to help prepare the will without charge and that's what they did.

 

- Lawyer also asked if nephew had a copy of the document partly prepared at the amphur office. He did and lawyer quickly showed my nephew and wife that some of the working was not appropriate and was ambiguous / confusing.

 

- You can 'register' your will at the local amphur office, fee is very low. You can register the will at the amphur office regardless of whether the will was prepared at the amphur office or not.

 

- Register with a Thai court probably means what I mentioned just above.

 

- Don't let a lawyer tell you that by Thai law wills have to be prepared by registered lawyers and have to be registered at the amphur office by a registered lawyer - this is not true.

 

- There are plenty of small law offices everywhere in Thailand who prepare wills at very low fees and very possible in both languages. Also many accounting firms and similar offer such services at very reasonable fees and are well capable of this work.

 

I certainly agree it's a good idea to make wills and do it now.

 

Example: I'm aware of a guy from Australia, very well educated, he has a number of luxury houses on the gold cost, owns 3 large condominiums in Jakarta and 3 condos and 2 large luxury houses around Pattaya, plus luxury cars, expensive big bikes and more in all of these locations and has very large amounts of cash in many banks in all locations mentioned plus in growth funds in the UK.

 

- The man is 70+ years old, he's the last surviving member of his family in Australia and has no surviving siblings or nephews, nieces etc.  In Indonesia and in Thaiand he has no family. He's never married and he lives alone, he has serious heart, blood pressure and colesterol problem.

 

He hasn't made a will anywhere. His close friends have tried many times to take him to a lawyer to start the process.

 

He refuses, his response is always 'but everybody knows who I would like to have this house / this car', etc., etc., but none of this is on a will or on any other document in any country.  Friends have been through this conversation with him several times and explained that 'everybody knows.....' has no meaning or stength in a court anywhere. He knows this but he's a very stubborn old man and refuses to be 'dictated to' (his words).

 

One of his buddies spoke to a recommended lawyer a couple of years ago asking 'what will happen to all of the property and cash in Thailand if he dies without a will?' Answer; 'it wil go through several legal processes and eventually become owned as Thai commonwealth property and be sold, proceeds going into the Thai state revenue accounts (taxpayers funds)'. 

[Kenny202]

37 minutes ago, khunPer said:

It would be legal, but complicated; and take long time, and be costly with numerous translations and letters.

 

If anything in your home country for your estate in Thailand don't strictly follow Thai Law, your will might no be valid, and Thai Law will be ruled by the court for any assets here.

 

Why not make it easy for your relatives and heirs, and make – just a simple – will for you Thai assets?

Who said it is complicated and takes a long time and costly lol? How do you know?

It was actually quite easy and involved nothing more (even less) than I would have had to do getting two completely seperate wills.

 

Lawyer Australia fees.....$500

Translation cost.....1200 baht

Thai lawyer ............2000 baht  (witness, notarise and stamp the will)

 

Thats what it cost me. I assume you are doing a will in your own country, so that is a cost you can not avoid.

My Australian lawyers prepared the will, sent it to me by email, I printed it out and took it to my Thai lawyer for witnessing, translation and a Thai version he also witnessed and signed. The signed Australian will was then sent back to my Australian lawyers by EMS.

 

You are going to have to draft your Thai will in Thai and need a translation for a Thai will even if you don't do a will in your own country. So you can't avoid that. Then there will be a fee for your Thai lawyer. If he drafts you a completely new seperate will for Thailand usually 10k THB, but some have said as low as 5000 baht.

 

If anything in your home country for your estate in Thailand don't strictly follow Thai Law, your will might no be valid, and Thai Law will be ruled by the court for any assets here.

 

What does this mean? You of course have your Thai lawyer read the document and make sure it is ok? The only thing he had to add which isn't a requirement in Australia is the place and time the document was signed on the front of the will. I am lucky in that my Thai lawyer was educated in the States so easy for him to check everything out. Your will should be as simple as possible as you can make it always......for Thailand or anywhere else.

 

 

[Kenny202]

13 minutes ago, scorecard said:

You can make your will in Thailand at the local amphur office (local government administration ofice), I'll add further comments on this route in bullet points:

 

- The will would be in Thai language but you can of course get an outside office to do a translation to English. But be sure the translation is done by a capable person (going to a simple shop front which advertsies translation can be less than satisfactory, some of these places just use Google translate which is less than acceptable).

 

- The staff at the amphur office who would help are not lawyers and there are plenty of examples of these folks giving their personal advice and all sounding like it's the law. Example: My Thai nephew wanted to make his will and his Thai wife convinced him to go (together) to the amphur office. Lady officer told my nephew that it's compulsory in Thailand for Thai men to leave, in their will, 100,000 to their mother in law. Nephew was doubtful so he said he needed to attend to something and left the amphur office. He contacted an old uni friend who had also studied law, lawyer indictaed there is no such law and there never will be. Lawyer also offered to help prepare the will without charge and that's what they did.

 

- Lawyer also asked if nephew had a copy of the document partly prepared at the amphur office. He did and lawyer quickly showed my nephew and wife that some of the working was not appropriate and was ambiguous / confusing.

 

- You can 'register' your will at the local amphur office, fee is very low. You can register the will at the amphur office regardless of whether the will was prepared at the amphur office or not.

 

- Register with a Thai court probably means what I mentioned just above.

 

- Don't let a lawyer tell you that by Thai law wills have to be prepared by registered lawyers and have to be registered at the amphur office by a registered lawyer - this is not true.

 

- There are plenty of small law offices everywhere in Thailand who prepare wills at very low fees and very possible in both languages. Also many accounting firms and similar offer such services at very reasonable fees and are well capable of this work.

 

I certainly agree it's a good idea to make wills and do it now.

 

Example: I'm aware of a guy from Australia, very well educated, he has a number of luxury houses on the gold cost, owns 3 large condominiums in Jakarta and 3 condos and 2 large luxury houses around Pattaya, plus luxury cars, expensive big bikes and more in all of these locations and has very large amounts of cash in many banks in all locations mentioned plus in growth funds in the UK.

 

- The man is 70+ years old, he's the last surviving member of his family in Australia and has no surviving siblings or nephews, nieces etc.  In Indonesia and in Thaiand he has no family. He's never married and he lives alone, he has serious heart, blood pressure and colesterol problem.

 

He hasn't made a will anywhere. His close friends have tried many times to take him to a lawyer to start the process.

 

He refuses, his response is always 'but everybody knows who I would like to have this house / this car', etc., etc., but none of this is on a will or on any other document in any country.  Friends have been through this conversation with him several times and explained that 'everybody knows.....' has no meaning or stength in a court anywhere. He knows this but he's a very stubborn old man and refuses to be 'dictated to' (his words).

 

One of his buddies spoke to a recommended lawyer a couple of years ago asking 'what will happen to all of the property and cash in Thailand if he dies without a will?' Answer; 'it wil go through several legal processes and eventually become owned as Thai commonwealth property and be sold, proceeds going into the Thai state revenue accounts (taxpayers funds)'. 

Another long diatribe of meaningless drivel that says absolutely nothing. Forget about the registering at the Amphur thing if you are using a Thai lawyer. This process is really only used for handwritten village wills. People that don't use a lawyer and want to have their wishes recorded and registered. In any case you will possibly find it extremely difficult. We went to three different Amphurs and either got the run around or surmised they didn't have a clue. I don't know if it is work avoidance or they freak out when it is a farang but none of them had a clue. I wouldn't have bothered only I made the same assumption it was extra insurance. Our Amphur in a large city completely rejected us, told us we would need documents ratified and witnessed by the ministry of foreign affairs etc. We went to MOFA and they told us they only ratify and notarise Thai documents, ID's etc. Another Amphur the lady told my wife no need for a will, then why doesn't he marry you, and a few of her ridiculous interpretations of the law, as if she was ok'ing the will ..thats sort of <deleted>. We had similar issues when I was trying to get my legitimacy papers lodged at the local Amphur for my son. They just don't have a clue. In essence they are witnessing that you were present, with other witnesses and you actually signed the papers. Nothing more. They seem to think they need to read the document and give their legal ok, even though its a court order from a judge, or a legal document signed and prepared by a lawyer. In the case of a will a lot of grief for nothing unless you have a close relationship with someone at the Amphur

[nglodnig]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Did you read the bit where it was ok'd, notarised and witnessed by a Thai lawyer? Im guessing he would have more of an idea than the experts on this forum

Yes it was notarised in the office by two people and written by  (I am assuming) a Thai lawyer - Assist Thai Visa in Chiang Mai.

[twix38]

The below is nonsense.

 

"One of his buddies spoke to a recommended lawyer a couple of years ago asking 'what will happen to all of the property and cash in Thailand if he dies without a will?' Answer; 'it wil go through several legal processes and eventually become owned as Thaicommonwealth property and be sold, proceeds going into the Thai state revenue accounts (taxpayers funds)'."

 

as I have said my dad died with no will. He only had funds in bank and I employed lawyer and went to Thai court. All funds released to me on court order and was not that onerous. It was reasonably easy in my case.

Edited February 9, 2020 by twix38

[scorecard]

22 minutes ago, twix38 said:

The below is nonsense.

 

"One of his buddies spoke to a recommended lawyer a couple of years ago asking 'what will happen to all of the property and cash in Thailand if he dies without a will?' Answer; 'it wil go through several legal processes and eventually become owned as Thaicommonwealth property and be sold, proceeds going into the Thai state revenue accounts (taxpayers funds)'."

 

as I have said my dad died with no will. He only had funds in bank and I employed lawyer and went to Thai court. All funds released to me on court order and was not that onerous. It was reasonably easy in my case.

In your case there was  a son - you.

 

In the case I mentioned there is no surviving family whatever, anywhere - a whole different scenario which prompts a different official response.

 

 

[nglodnig]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

My Lawyer also told me in Thailand the original of your will is kept in your home or your executor. Signed and sealed. The lawyer keeps a signed copy also signed and sealed.

 

You blokes are gold 

We and them have the originals (my wife and I signed two copies each). 

 

Thank you for your kind concern over our welfare. 

[saengd]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

I don't know about other countries but I have had a few wills drawn up here and back home and every will starts with the clause...this will nullifies and cancels all previous and other wills.

 

If this appears on your English will it would mean your Thai will would / could be nullified.

 

 

 

 

My UK and Thai wills both start with the words along the lines of, this will nullifies and cancels all my previous and other wills as they pertain to my estate in Thailand/UK only (delete one). That ensures that if one of the two wills is updated the other remains in effect and is not nullified.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, twix38 said:

The below is nonsense.

 

"One of his buddies spoke to a recommended lawyer a couple of years ago asking 'what will happen to all of the property and cash in Thailand if he dies without a will?' Answer; 'it wil go through several legal processes and eventually become owned as Thaicommonwealth property and be sold, proceeds going into the Thai state revenue accounts (taxpayers funds)'."

 

as I have said my dad died with no will. He only had funds in bank and I employed lawyer and went to Thai court. All funds released to me on court order and was not that onerous. It was reasonably easy in my case.

What is the point of the story? It's a long convoluted story stating the obvious. The old guy doesn't have any relatives and doesn't have a will. Of course it will go to government revenue as it would anywhere. Not sure if it gets sent back home or stays in Thailand but thats what happens. The old guy may have left it to someone or some foundation and doesn't want to tell anyone. I am sure some of you blokes make half of these stories up!

[saengd]

If a person in Thailand dies without leaving a will the estate is distributed according to a well defined list of relatives, in a specific sequence. It's only if there are no relatives whatsoever that the estate would become the property of the Treasury, not unlike the process in other countries. I don't know what would happen if that person was a foreigner with no relatives in Thailand.

[Capt Rob]

5 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Why is it a foreign will? There is nothing on the English will apart from my solicitors name and address. The Thai version is copied from the english will, in Thai. Every page is signed and witnessed as a normal Thai will would be. So it is essentially an independant Thai will which is worded the same as the english will. Both wills have instructions for Thai and Australian assets so there is no conflict here or at home. You do understand if you did just get a thai will, in Thai...you would still need a signed witnessed and notarised translation. Otherwise someone can argue you signed a will in a language you dont understand.

As provided by a previous poster the proforma will in Thai/English has inter alia the proviso that " This Last Will and Testament is made in both English and Thai language. In the case of any discrepancy between the English language and Thai language, the English language shall be used for interpretation. "   Have seen this repeated in a number of proforma's and it 'should' thereby remove any ambiguities and give some comfort to the testator.

[Fairynuff]

5 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

are you just trying to appear to be in the know but at the same time saying nothing of any substance.

Yeah of course I’m just trying look like I know it all. Both my lawyer back home and my lawyer in Bangkok said that individual wills should be made in each country. But hey they’re just lawyers and I’m sure YOU know better

[Jip99]

14 minutes ago, Capt Rob said:

As provided by a previous poster the proforma will in Thai/English has inter alia the proviso that " This Last Will and Testament is made in both English and Thai language. In the case of any discrepancy between the English language and Thai language, the English language shall be used for interpretation. "   Have seen this repeated in a number of proforma's and it 'should' thereby remove any ambiguities and give some comfort to the testator.

 

 

The English worded Will is simply there for translation purposes and enables the Will to be written in Thai. Once a Farang is dead the English wording is pointless.

 

 

I would also make a Thai and home country dealing with respective assets. Although arguably unnecessary, I would cross-refer the existence of the other in each Will.

[Morty T]

We have 2 wills, but since all the tax consequences are on the US side, that is our main concern. Besides the car and bikes, we don't own anything in Thailand. I'm sure if anything serious happened in any case, the immediate relatives would swoop down and start a shopping trip of whatever they could take. 

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Who said it is complicated and takes a long time and costly lol? How do you know?

It was actually quite easy and involved nothing more (even less) than I would have had to do getting two completely seperate wills.

 

Lawyer Australia fees.....$500

Translation cost.....1200 baht

Thai lawyer ............2000 baht  (witness, notarise and stamp the will)

When your are dead and there is one will only covering two countries, which is why I said "relatives and heirs" – I know it from experience, however not my own death...???? – how do you know it?

 

As I wrote in my other post for OP, you can mention in each will that there is another will concerning the assets in the other country only; then your home country will, and executor there, only need to take care of that: and your Thai executor and the Thai court. only need to be concerned about the Thai assets.

 

About costs, you don't even need a lawyer if it's a simple will, but preferably it should be registered – in both home country and Thailand – so it can be easily found when you are dead, a "secret will" can also be too secret.

 

You might be right, or my method might be better, but we can talk it over from experience, if we later meet up there, I'll gladly buy a drink...????

[inThailand]

Two Wills are needed, one for home country assets one for Thai assets. English is fine for both. USA requires you sign before a notary and witnesses Thailand requires witnesses, two Thai, two falangs would be best. Use a Will example from the internet. No attorney needed.

In each Will state this Will does not terminate or alter in any way my other Will. 

Because the Thai legal system is untrustworthy, I added to my home country Will, if my Thai Will for any reason is not recognized by the Thai legal system, then my home country executor will carry out my Thai Will.

[TigerandDog]

On 2/8/2020 at 7:31 PM, Kenny202 said:

I have just been through the process here and like most things there seems to be no clear rules, or at least not that anyone knows about. Different Lawyers tell you different things as do the Amphur offices and in fact people giving advice on TV. Everybody thinks they are right as they have all been told different things. At the end of the day do what makes the most sense to you. I decided to make my will in Australia as thats where the bulk of my money is and also I wanted to put money in trust for my Thai born son, away from the clutches of his natural mother. Trust accounts are not valid or recognised in Thailand.

 

So I did the will in Australia, by post. I received the actual will electronically (email), printed it out. Signed and had it witnessed by my Thai lawyer and his friend. I made another copy, had it translated and witnessed also and this is in my safe and a copy with my Thai lawyer. The original was sent back to my Australia lawyer for safekeeping at their office. Like I said the bulk of my assets in Australia. In Thailand I would have some money in the bank, vehicles, personal belongings etc and these will go directly to my Thai partner. I have instructions covering Australian assets and Thai assets in 2 seperate areas so one will covers Thailand and Australia. For Thailand I listed vehicle numbers, bank accounts etc as my Thai lawyer advised this would aid her to transfer things to her name more easily should I croak. 

 

My Lawyer says that the Australian will translated to Thai will suffice. I didn't like the idea of having two wills and still don't. It could appear that one will contradicts the other and at best may hold things up. I think upon death here your country is notified and I could just imagine a disgruntled family member back home disputing things on a Thai will.

 

Anyway, I would suggest keep it as simple as possible. Whoever witnesses it make sure they are traceable and preferably a notary or someone who has a stamp and address. By the way there are a few simple things that have to be added to a foreign will to make it legal in Thailand. For example you may have to write the location the will was signed on the front in your own hand. We were also told to make things watertight you need to lodge it at the Amphur etc. This on further investigation turned out not to be necessary. Lodging with your lawyer is enough. Best of luck

 

 

I can assure you your Australian will translated to thai IS NOT valid in Thailand. Under Thai law you MUST have 2 separate wills. One for Thailand and the second for assets in your home country. I consulted with 3 Thai legal firms and my Australian solicitor beforehand and they all said the same thing. Separate wills are required for both countries. Your Thai will can ONLY bequeath assets in Thailand to beneficiaries in Thailand and MUST ALSO include provision for your funeral arrangements, whatever they may be. Your Australian will can bequeath your Australian assets to whomever you wish, regardless of where they are located.

[ThaiBunny]

7 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Your Australian will can bequeath your Australian assets to whomever you wish, regardless of where they are located.

Strictly speaking your Australian Will is automatically legal in 82 countries under a Hague Convention. This link sets out the rules about having multiple Wills from an Australian perspective: https://www.legalconsolidated.com.au/is-my-australian-will-valid-for-overseas-assets/

 

I'm inclined to believe that a Thai Will could govern non-Thai assets even though Thailand is not a signatory