Getting real about costs

[ChaiyaTH]

Been doubting for a while if this is worth posting but I am just very curious towards other 'normal' people who are not here on some lavish Expat package with 120K up salaries. 
I have a 1 year old son now and my girlfriend is taking care of him since birth, so she can not work (otherwise the child would be with her dinosaur parents in the sticks). 

Now the thing is, at first I did not really pay too much attention to all the costs we have but since a few weeks I have been pretty much shocked after counting things up.
We actually live a very simple and normal life, we rent cheap already and do not have debts or a car either, I do have my standards but nothing crazy honestly.

 

• Rent + utilities etc: 14,000 baht a month.
• Baby things: 5,000 baht a month average (and we are lucky to still do breastfeeding, else it been easily 4,000 baht more).
• Food + living costs + some money for her: 15,000 baht a month.
• Family visits, paperwork things, visa costs: 5,000 baht a month reserve (3,000 for my visa trips, paperwork things and family visits in province are not often at all).
• My personal costs and money: 10,000 baht a month (I am being conservative here, I used to spend at least 2-3x that in the past, trying to limit it to this now).
• Other things: 5,000 baht a month (broken phone, unexpected bill, 2x a month out going to some waterfall or whatever)
  
  Total per month: around 54,000 baht a month
  
  Now we are not even done yet, if we would also like to visit my family in Europe once a year, or once every 18 months, easily 6,000 baht month more making it 60,000 baht.
  Then the cheapest semi International school, starts at the young years with kindergarten, at 10,000 baht a month and from 4 years old around 15,000 baht a month. Most likely also increases our transport costs (or we need to move closer).
  
  So we are now at a total amount of around 70,000 - 75,000 baht a month and I am still not even mentioning saving money, which is really needed if living in Thailand for the long run, as well for a pension. 

 

I figured this is pretty insane cost wise, obviously I could cut some of the costs drastically, and perhaps survive on 40,000 baht a month during bad times, but that would cost happiness and education for my son.

The downside of all this, if I do move back to Europe, this is just enough for a normal life nowadays too. So we still have a much better quality of life and lifestyle here with that money unless she would also be working in Europe, then we would actually be doing quite well.

The problem however is, there is no guarantee for me earning this much from abroad forever, even it is all good now, I know things never last forever.
I lost some business previously already and then you need to have a 3-6 months buffer at least (can't just pick up any job like back home, to make things OK temporary). 

The whole situation stresses me out quite a lot lately, even the move back to Europe would cost me at least 500K baht (visa, lawyer costs, flights, deposit on house, full furniture, small car etc etc).
So making that move, I would need to save 20K a month for like 2 years, only for that already. As well having to be very sure that is what she wants, it would be a waste if only staying there for a few years.
 

I guess my question is: Am I the only person in this situation or thinking it is insane expensive in Thailand nowadays (compared to earnings)? And how do you deal with this? I mostly hope to get answers from people that not have retirement already, as that is kind of a problem solver. I am far from retirement age and have to turn 30 years old in a year.

 

To those who do not have kids yet, I would advice them to never get any unless having more than I quoted in costs.
It really makes Thailand way more expensive than when single / with a girlfriend.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[CharlieH]

Without wishing to state the obvious, you either need to trim the expenses, or of course increase the income. Increasing is always easier in the homeland as you can get a second job and no permits and regs to worry about.

Back in Europe the schooling costs wouldnt apply, perhaps the family could help with the infant and the wife could work easier.

Staying here, you already said you dont want the child with the grandparents and therefore the wife cant work unless she does it when you are home to take care of the child.

What work are you doing here ? 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

8 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Without wishing to state the obvious, you either need to trim the expenses, or of course increase the income. Increasing is always easier in the homeland as you can get a second job and no permits and regs to worry about.

Back in Europe the schooling costs wouldnt apply, perhaps the family could help with the infant and the wife could work easier.

Staying here, you already said you dont want the child with the grandparents and therefore the wife cant work unless she does it when you are home to take care of the child.

What work are you doing here ? 

 

Actually, my net income is much more than most people earn in my home country already. I am in business myself. As well I have more free time.

So yeah it is obvious that increasing income even more is the only way to go, in terms of trimming costs, this is the overview after having done so already.
There is really almost no luxury or what so ever in my quoted costs yet (except my personal budget of 10K baht).

If we were to let the grandparents take care of my son, he would not become more smart and we would have additional costs that makes my wife working pretty much pointless. Seems the only sustainable option is to move back to Europe, costs are almost the same, more jobs and business there, social welfare, free education etc etc.

I am just mostly shocked about the insane high costs, if you want to live a simple normal life with healthy food and a little bit OK education. 
Well it would also be much less expensive if the THB was still around 43 baht per euro rather than 33.... Good old days.

Part of the secret for most western couples: they both earn quite good money, even at minimum wages. In TH it is often only the guy who brings in good money.
I figured that i would be doing much better already if only dated a girl from back home instead.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[CharlieH]

5 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Actually, my income is much more than most people earn in my home country already. I am in business myself. 

So yeah it is obvious that increasing income even more is the only way to go, in terms of trimming costs, this is the overview after having done so already.
There is really almost no luxury or what so ever in my quoted costs yet (except my personal budget of 10K baht).

If we were to let the grandparents take care of my son, he would not become more smart and we would have additional costs that makes my wife working pretty much pointless.
Seems the only sustainable option is to move back to Europe, as there is more jobs and business there, social welfare, free education etc etc.

I am just mostly shocked about the insane high costs, if you want to live a simple normal life with healthy food and a little bit OK education. 

Thailand is not the cheap place it once was thats for sure. I would say based on your details your best chance would be Europe. I dont know what country you would return to but there may be financial difficulties in settling the wife, you may need to explore that more to get a better idea.

Yes, the support network you would have as a family would be far better there and dont forget that if a health issue hits any of you here it can wipe you out financially.

[madmen]

Go home. You have a social security umbrella to fall back on should you're business go belly up and then there is Medicare which I didn't see in your costs or are you under the Thai system 

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Thailand is not the cheap place it once was thats for sure. I would say based on your details your best chance would be Europe. I dont know what country you would return to but there may be financial difficulties in settling the wife, you may need to explore that more to get a better idea.

Yes, the support network you would have as a family would be far better there and dont forget that if a health issue hits any of you here it can wipe you out financially.

It would be very easy to go back based on Chavez (Thai wife can get a 5 year visa without financial requirements if having a EU child). 
But the costs to make that move are quite high, so it will still take me some years to set aside 400-500K in costs, that are gone right after we are installed there.

The support network back home would be better too family wise too as you say. Health issues are not really a concern as I have a really good insurance for less than I pay back home (guess my only benefit being young). 

[ChaiyaTH]

8 minutes ago, madmen said:

Go home. You have a social security umbrella to fall back on should you're business go belly up and then there is Medicare which I didn't see in your costs or are you under the Thai system 

I pay around 2500 baht a month for a proper insurance worldwide, based on my age, I pay this from a small passive euro income. This also covers my son.
This insurance does not cover in USA, Canada. Up to 1 million USD coverage otherwise for stays under 6 weeks and permanent in TH and Netherlands.

Actually there is no social umbrella if you do business for the first 6 months, but yeah, if I got a job instead, I would have it. 
Plus I would not be kicked out of my house that fast, there would be much more space and ease indeed.

Here I would be kicked out, right away be unable to pay for further education semesters and not be allowed to take on any random job temporary.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

Guess I know the answer already, even before I wrote it, still it is helpful to read some comments like these. 
Hope there is more people reading and replying on this, I guess there are not that many people in my situation as most are retired etc.

I can imagine why so many children are left behind here with the Thai mother too, it is very difficult to make it possible + sustainable long term in TH.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[CharlieH]

Just now, ChaiyaTH said:

Guess I know the answer already, even before I wrote it, still it is helpful to read some comments like these. 
Hope there is more people reading and replying on this, I guess there are not that many people in my situation as most are retired etc.

Thats not entirely true as there are some that are not yet of retirement age and are in many respects too old to go back as they would never get a job because of the age. You have the advantage of youth on that score and could if need be, turn your hand to other things or even re-train etc at just 30. Imagine being in your same situation at 60 as some are, and you see what I mean.

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Thats not entirely true as there are some that are not yet of retirement age and are in many respects too old to go back as they would never get a job because of the age. You have the advantage of youth on that score and could if need be, turn your hand to other things or even re-train etc at just 30. Imagine being in your same situation at 60 as some are, and you see what I mean.

I certainly agree on that but to get a child at that age is quite foolish in the first place, if you ask me. 
There is a lot of chances for me to make it really great actually but that also very much depends on the lady, she needs to work as hard for it and remain loyal to our plans and relationship / soon to be marriage (for the sake of obtaining the Dutch passport easily). 

If we both moved back for at least 10 years or so, we could return and pay for a house in TH at once, have a bigger business, more cashflow and savings.
We could even do dual living and spend most of the holidays in Thailand too, pay of 2 cheaper houses in 2 countries. 

So yeah amazing perspective, as long I manage to set aside the money before anything bad happens. Economy isn't in great shape, so the stress remains.

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I certainly agree on that but to get a child at that age is quite foolish in the first place, if you ask me. 
There is a lot of chances for me to make it really great actually but that also very much depends on the lady, she needs to work as hard for it and remain loyal to our plans and relationship / soon to be marriage (for the sake of obtaining the Dutch passport easily). 

If we both moved back for at least 10 years or so, we could return and pay for a house in TH at once, have a bigger business, more cashflow and savings.
We could even do dual living and spend most of the holidays in Thailand too, pay of 2 cheaper houses in 2 countries. 

So yeah amazing perspective, as long I manage to set aside the money before anything bad happens. Economy isn't in great shape, so the stress remains.

Now your making good sense !

Dont be led astray on unnecessary expense on the marriage aspect either.

You seem like a pretty stable young man and I wish you all the best.

[saengd]

You say Thailand isn't cheap but in fact prices for core goods haven't moved that much in many years, inflation has been under 1% per year for the past five years. The problem of course is the exchange rate with home currencies and the often insane import tax on many foreign goods, those things distort the picture. 

 

As a retired couple with simple tastes we get by easily on around 45k per month but we have no rent to pay, one or two large bills throughout the year push that somewhat on average, car insurance etc.

 

And then holidays in the UK where we own a home, living there for three months each year is actually cheaper than living in Thailand so we save money. For any foreigner living here who is young and doesn't have Thai income I'd say the deck is stacked against you, especially if you don't own property and have to pay rent. Given those things, especially where children are involved, going back home for a few years seems the sensible thing to do, save some money, get the health care coverage you need and then come back later when you've got more assets. For most people making that transition is a very emotional move and I've seen a number of people get seriously stressed at the prospect. But once the move is done it's all positive and there have been few regrets among friends who have returned home.

Edited February 10, 2020 by saengd

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

To those who do not have kids yet, I would advice them to never get any unless having more than I quoted in costs.
It really makes Thailand way more expensive than when single / with a girlfriend.

I follow your advice since the last 20 years. No kids - not only because they are expensive.

 

Maybe you have to settle for a Thai school. Because don't forget these little extra costs when all kids at that international school have an iPhone and your kid obviously also NEEDs one of those. And all the other little gadgets... 

 

Good luck! You need it.

[Liverpudlian]

I find these figures staggering considering you say your living in the sticks, i scrape thru on a pension of a frozen 102 pounds per week ... I KID YOU NOT. and we have a youngster too who starts school tomorrow .

[ChaiyaTH]

10 minutes ago, saengd said:

You say Thailand isn't cheap but in fact prices for core goods haven't moved that much in many years, inflation has been under 1% per year for the past five years. The problem of course is the exchange rate with home currencies and the often insane import tax on many foreign goods, those things distort the picture. 

Well I have never said that I would say it was cheaper years ago, I only said it would be less bad to me if the exchange rate was still better. 
It is expensive regardless, it always has been. Certainly if you imagine local incomes. 

Even we would be a typical Thai couple, paid off land and a little wooden house already, no International school and stuff like that,
I'd imagine they still need at least 30K baht a month.

In terms of increased costs, I think you do forget that many things are much more expensive now (eating outside being one thing, grab became much more expensive in just a year too, as well many other things). The rent and prices in Makro etc haven't changed much at all, agree on that.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

My personal costs and money: 10,000 baht a month (I am being conservative here, I used to spend at least 2-3x that in the past, trying to limit it to this now).

 

The first thing I wondered when reading your post, about a guy supposedly watching his budget, is what kinds of things are you spending 10K per month on for "personal costs." When you've got a GF and a young child at home?

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, Liverpudlian said:

I find these figures staggering considering you say your living in the sticks, i scrape thru on a pension of a frozen 102 pounds per week ... I KID YOU NOT. and we have a youngster too who starts school tomorrow .

I am not living in the sticks. Didn't say that as well. I only said, my son would live in the sticks if we ditched them with the parents.
I would not know how you can live off 102 pounds a week, that is called survival. I would have taken a job back home for the sake of my kid in your situation.

My rent and utilities alone (8500 baht house) are 3 of those weekly pay checks already. And I rent super cheap.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The first thing I wondered when reading your post, about a guy supposedly watching his budget, is what kinds of things are you spending 10K per month on for "personal costs." When you've got a GF and a young child at home?

Well I guess this depends on how much people are used to live off, 10K is really small money, honestly. That aside, I can afford everything right now and also save a significant amount on top of the quoted budget. I used to spend easily 20-30K a month for my own. 

Would not know why anyone would even want to live in Thailand with not even having a 10K personal budget. That is like 333 baht a day only.
More realistic: some clothes and toilet stuff and it is 7-8K left, that is just enough for socialising with some beers and foreign food once a week as well.

Guess I would be a very very sour person + half depressive and always locked at home, if not having that little freedom left at least. 
But sure, guess it could be cut down to 6K baht if only visit the cheapest bars and convincing my friends to go there.

 

Last but not least, I am not complaining or struggling, I am just being realistic and looking at longer time frames, to question TH being suitable or not.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Well I guess this depends on how much people are used to live off, 10K is really small money, honestly. That aside, I can afford everything right now and also save a significant amount on top of the quoted budget. I used to spend easily 20-30K a month for my own. 

Would not know why anyone would even want to live in Thailand with not even having a 10K personal budget. That is like 333 baht a day only.

 

I notice, you didn't [originally] actually answer my question, regardless of whether you can afford it or not.

 

After paying for rent, food, bills, household stuff, a salary for your GF, etc etc, you're still adding 10K for something, and apparently 2-3 times that before.

 

If I was worried about the affordability of things here, I'd probably be re-examining just how much of that 10K (or 2 or 3 times that) I really needed to be spending every month.

 

My wife and I go out and eat foreign food in BKK usually two times a week. But we find affordable (not fast food) places we like. And maybe spend 600 baht total per meal. And we certainly don't spend 10K per month on that. But neither of us are drinkers, so that helps keep the costs down.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[madmen]

7 minutes ago, Liverpudlian said:

I find these figures staggering considering you say your living in the sticks, i scrape thru on a pension of a frozen 102 pounds per week ... I KID YOU NOT. and we have a youngster too who starts school tomorrow .

We all have different standards of living. 

[varun]

I have one correction to make in your statement.

 

120K baht/month is actually a lower end salary for an expat.

This is what a qualified Thai person (country manager level) would make at the moment.
C-level Thai execs (CFO/CEO) would be in the 150K-250K/month range.

 

Truly qualified expats are easily north of 300K/month + benefits.

 

120K-250K is where you would have most of the white-collar expats -

software engineers, project managers etc.

 

Costs have risen, but so have salaries for qualified expats - run-of-the-mill English teachers don't qualify.

 

It is not clear whether you're self-employed or working for a company.

 

[ChaiyaTH]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I notice, you didn't actually answer my question, regardless of whether you can afford it or not.

 

After paying for rent, food, bills, household stuff, a salary for your GF, etc etc, you're still adding 10K for something, and apparently 2-3 times that before.

 

If I was worried about the affordability of things here, I'd probably be re-examining just how much of that 10K (or 2 or 3 times that) I really needed to be spending every month.

That comes down to like 6-10% of my monthly earnings, on actually having somewhat of a life myself. Something you really need if doing business.
If I would not have a personal budget and time for my own, I doubt i would be willing to keep up the business. I'd rather take a easy job and spend nothing in that case.

 

The before that time is not really to compare, my girlfriend worked and took care of her own. In terms of being worried: that is for a long term situation.
Cutting down on that 10K would not change anything to the reality of things with that.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

7 minutes ago, varun said:

It is not clear whether you're self-employed or working for a company.

I stated it previously, I am self employed. Income is not static in business but average of 100-110K net income (but with 20-30% being saved for cashflow / worser months). To be earning even much more than that, yeah, I guess i estimated too little for expat packages then.

To clarify again, I am in a very good position now, also have no school costs yet, and not complaining at all.
I am just thinking longer time frame, as results of today are no guarantee in the long term future + comparing that to how it would be in Europe instead.

Guess most people do not consider this at all until it is too late, but I do think about it now already to avoid such situation.
Having seen many older people struggling to even pay for a visa, room and food here, I do not want to join that group later on in life.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

39 minutes ago, saengd said:

As a retired couple with simple tastes we get by easily on around 45k per month but we have no rent to pay, one or two large bills throughout the year push that somewhat on average, car insurance etc.

When I was single or even when living with my girlfriend, without the child, we would easily live of that or less. Including the rent of a condo.
It is having a child, that makes everything so much more expensive. Much more than I imagined beforehand.

Just some simple thing: we used to drive on the motorbike, anywhere. Now we need to use grabs from time to time as I do not want a 1 year old on a bike. 
This easily adds 2-3K a month in costs already. Then kid stuff, diapers and vaccins out patient (without using insurance) it is easy near 9K already. 

Then to imagine I already buy in bulk and with discount, many Thais still buy at Tesco where those things cost even more.
Most of my expat friends say I do it amazingly cheap, they say to lose at least 10-12K a month on it (not including grab or a car).

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[sirineou]

18 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I certainly agree on that but to get a child at that age is quite foolish in the first place, if you ask me. 
There is a lot of chances for me to make it really great actually but that also very much depends on the lady, she needs to work as hard for it and remain loyal to our plans and relationship / soon to be marriage (for the sake of obtaining the Dutch passport easily). 

If we both moved back for at least 10 years or so, we could return and pay for a house in TH at once, have a bigger business, more cashflow and savings.
We could even do dual living and spend most of the holidays in Thailand too, pay of 2 cheaper houses in 2 countries. 

So yeah amazing perspective, as long I manage to set aside the money before anything bad happens. Economy isn't in great shape, so the stress remains.

We returned to the US several years ago , with the plan to work, save and come back when we were ready.

It was easier for as because we did not have a child,  already had a house in the US, and an extensive network of contacts.

 I came first,and got a good job,(was easy for me because i had an extensive network of contacts that I maintained), so if you are thinking of going back check with your "network" and or start working it. 

Wife came to the US a few  months later. (almost a year) 

We both worked (mostly me) . We saved and , paid off the house I owned, and bought an additional one at a warmer areas in the US (real estate market had collapses 2009 we bought a foreclosure) .

When we had some saving we bought land in Thailand. a couple of years later, we build a perimeter wall around the land, a couple more years  with savings we build a modest house on the land .  In the meantime we we were paying in the social security system , paying in to a 401K and building up a pension with the company I worked for. 

And we continued coming to Thailand every year for a vacation and to get our Thai fix.

Now i am almost 63 and ready to retire. Paid for house in the US, paid for house in Thailand, a six figure 401k , social security income, and a pension income. 

I am telling you all that not to brag, but to describe a road map towards what you might want to do as a Young man.

 A word of caution, (recently I had started a thread talking about that)  . After living back in your country with your wife for an extended length of time, especially with a child, It might be difficult to return to Thailand. 

You might have to wait until child is old enough to be on his/hers own because it might not want to come back to a Thailand he/she dont know. , And depending where your home country is. your wife might get acclimated and also not want to move back full time also.

 You sound like a fine young man. I am sure you will find your own way around, Some advice from an old geezer. If you get along with your GF and have a child, Marry the girl , it's the right thing to do.

  Good lack 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

figured this is pretty insane cost wise, obviously I could cut some of the costs drastically, and perhaps survive on 40,000 baht a month during bad times, but that would cost happiness and education for my son.

I'm living on 40k/month, that includes mortgage repayments on a modern 3 bed house, University fees for my daughter, and very small government school fees for my son.

 

Government schools are fine by me.

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

We returned to the US several years ago , with the plan to work, save and come back when we were ready.

It was easier for as because we did not have a child,  already had a house in the US, and an extensive network of contacts.

 I came first,and got a good job,(was easy for me because i had an extensive network of contacts that I maintained), so if you are thinking of going back check with your "network" and or start working it. 

Wife came to the US a few  months later. (almost a year) 

We both worked (mostly me) . We saved and , paid off the house I owned, and bought an additional one at a warmer areas in the US (real estate market had collapses 2009 we bought a foreclosure) .

When we had some saving we bought land in Thailand. a couple of years later, we build a perimeter wall around the land, a couple more years  with savings we build a modest house on the land .  In the meantime we we were paying in the social security system , paying in to a 401K and building up a pension with the company I worked for. 

And we continued coming to Thailand every year for a vacation and to get our Thai fix.

Now i am almost 63 and ready to retire. Paid for house in the US, paid for house in Thailand, a six figure 401k , social security income, and a pension income. 

I am telling you all that not to brag, but to describe a road map towards what you might want to do as a Young man.

 A word of caution, (recently I had started a thread talking about that)  . After living back in your country with your wife for an extended length of time, especially with a child, It might be difficult to return to Thailand. 

You might have to wait until child is old enough to be on his/hers own because it might not want to come back to a Thailand he/she dont know. , And depending where your home country is. your wife might get acclimated and also not want to move back full time also.

 You sound like a fine young man. I am sure you will find your own way around, Some advice from an old geezer. If you get along with your GF and have a child, Marry the girl , it's the right thing to do.

  Good lack 

Sounds like the best indeed, you did very very well and been wise + smart to do so, I hope to achieve the same one day.

I am personally not in a rush, to be even better prepared for it, so we could still delay things for 4 years easily.

Unless making very big progress, I would not return to Thailand until the child is 18, so I guess we talk about a 10-15 year timeframe indeed.
Also, after such long time, I think we might not even want to go back anymore + are used to our lives in Netherlands. 

Time will tell what happens / happened.. Thanks for your reply!

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm living on 40k/month, that includes mortgage repayments on a modern 3 bed house, University fees for my daughter, and very small government school fees for my son.

 

Government schools are fine by me.

I know it can be done on that amount if doing government schools, I would be in peace with it if having no other realistic options only. 
It is just, I'd rather not be forced to live that life now still having all the time and options open. As well that even earning 40-50K from Thailand, becomes more difficult.

The longer I am here, the less easy gigs I get on the side, simply because I am out of the picture too long back home. 
I would not be unhappy if having to live of that amount if I knew it is guaranteed and for the rest of my life. Then life would still be better here than back home.

There is no cloud on the horizon right now but I have seen too many people go broken by assuming that would remain for decades.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

It is just, I'd rather not be forced to live that life now still having all the time and options open. As well that even earning 40-50K from Thailand, becomes more difficult.

I didn't live any better in the UK on 50kpounds/year (2001), than I do in Thailand on 40kbht/month (2020).

And the woman in my bed now is half the age (and half the weight) of the woman that was in my bed then.

60" TV in the living room, 55" TV in the bedroom, fast internet ....... I don't need to spend any more, and I certainly don't feel I'm living an inferior lifestyle.

 

Most guys forget what poop lives they were living back home, working all hours, trying to please their woman so she didn't divorce them, the cold, the rain, the grey skies, etc.

Edited February 10, 2020 by BritManToo

[madmen]

IMO only, a young man with a new family will always be better off in 1st world where there is better opportunity especially for the kids. 

Thailand is unstable with ever changing visa rules 

And there is absolutely no guarantee the baht will not continue to get stronger putting further pressure on earnings. 

The world's best exchange rate is in your home country where $1 = $1