Rent House VS Buy Leasehold - You pay upfront for the rent and can be sure to stay there 30 years ?

[izod10]

18 minutes ago, saengd said:

Anybody who buys an overpriced shack or farang mansion in nakon nowhere is going to have a problem, those who do their homework and buy sensibly in good locations will not, just like real estate anywhere else in the world.

 

18 minutes ago, saengd said:

Anybody who buys an overpriced shack or farang mansion in nakon nowhere is going to have a problem, those who do their homework and buy sensibly in good locations will not, just like real estate anywhere else in the world.

"real estate anywhere else in the world"  yeah right,Thailand just aint quite like "anywhere in the world"  All I see  (and I do get around empty/for sale/for rent houses ,flats too if I care to look,and Nakon Nowhere  would not be on my buying spectrum

 

  Any sane person taking due diligence would not touch this market with a barge pole "do homework/buy sensibly" anyone with an ounce of sense would not touch the place   Farang that is   but awaiting the property taxation,now this will be interesting

   Probably already bought,if you give up on the campaign that Im alright jack, come down to earth,realisation its a hopeless mess

 

  Edit  most have stated they are fronted by Thai wife ,GF  for purchase,guess thats OK but taking funds back to anywhere would surely be blocked by the misses

Edited February 22, 2020 by izod10

[saengd]

1 minute ago, izod10 said:

 

"real estate anywhere else in the world"  yeah right,Thailand just aint quite like "anywhere in the world"  All I see  (and I do get around empty/for sale/for rent houses ,flats too if I care to look,and Nakon Nowhere  would not be on my buying spectrum

 

  Any sane person taking due diligence would not touch this market with a barge pole "do homework/buy sensibly" anyone with an ounce of sense would not touch the place   Farang that is   but awaiting the property taxation,now this will be interesting

   Probably already bought,if you give up on the campaign that Im alright jack, come down to earth,realisation its a hopeless mess

I'm guessing you're either baiting or you're a naive newbie, either way you don't know much at all about real estate in Chaing Mai at least.

[izod10]

34 minutes ago, saengd said:

I'm guessing you're either baiting or you're a naive newbie, either way you don't know much at all about real estate in Chaing Mai at least.

"Unless you could find a cheap Condo in a  good area*,you

would not get a decent return on your investment,with a glut of Condos,

and more been built everyday,rents are depressed,but for whatever 

reason, prices of Condos are high,renting out property is not just

about collecting rents,it can be a lot of headaches,especially if

you get a bad tenant.         *virtually impossible. "

 

First off the block TV  Chiang Mai,..."glut of Condos for sale" now this is at odds to what you proffer,  anyway not expanding  but as your" due diliugence"  hope you keep up the medical insurance  you will need it breathing in all that smoke,  lung cancer looms    and proprty taxes....taxes and death never avoided

 

..and I did state earlier nobody wants to take a thumping loss  so prices will stay(artificially) high forever...and the building goes on  lol

 

"Approximately what area did they issue the "use or loose" the land advice ?
Being  west of Chiang Rai town "in the hills", no paper land, hardly any burning visible and very little smoke in last week or so . . .
Generally the air has been OK except for 2 days. "      Thats OK then,as burning season about to get under way,  hold your breath for two days or so  lol   as if it could not get any worse

Edited February 22, 2020 by izod10

[saengd]

13 minutes ago, izod10 said:

"Unless you could find a cheap Condo in a  good area*,you

would not get a decent return on your investment,with a glut of Condos,

and more been built everyday,rents are depressed,but for whatever 

reason, prices of Condos are high,renting out property is not just

about collecting rents,it can be a lot of headaches,especially if

you get a bad tenant.         *virtually impossible. "

 

First off the block TV  Chiang Mai,..."glut of Condos for sale" now this is at odds to what you proffer,  anyway not expanding  but as your" due diliugence"  hope you keep up the medical insurance  you will need it breathing in all that smoke,  lung cancer looms    and proprty taxes....taxes and death never avoided

 

..and I did state earlier nobody wants to take a thumping loss  so prices will stay(artificially) high forever...and the building goes on  lol

 

There's a glut of 45 square meter shoe boxes, I'm talking about 150 sq meter units in the 5 to 7 mill. range that rent for between 30k and 40k a month, places such as Floral for example where I owned previously. And the property tax will have zero impact on occupied property, it's only real estate or second properties that are an issue.

[izod10]

3 minutes ago, saengd said:

There's a glut of 45 square meter shoe boxes, I'm talking about 150 sq meter units in the 5 to 7 mill. range that rent for between 30k and 40k a month, places such as Floral for example where I owned previously. And the property tax will have zero impact on occupied property, it's only real estate or second properties that are an issue.

...but the breathing wont   lol     Yes "due diligence" needed     I know the author of the TV Chiang Mai piece,had one of the best places there,he knows,yes he does,been there forever,    see if I can get him to join this thread,he will enjoy your output

[Airalee]

5 minutes ago, saengd said:

There's a glut of 45 square meter shoe boxes, I'm talking about 150 sq meter units in the 5 to 7 mill. range that rent for between 30k and 40k a month, places such as Floral for example where I owned previously. And the property tax will have zero impact on occupied property, it's only real estate or second properties that are an issue.

Floral (very nice btw) is one of the exceptions (as is Embassy house). Most of the smaller 50sqm condos (all the space I would want) are cheaper now for both rent and purchase than when I lived there from 2012-2017

[mitostone]

2 hours ago, izod10 said:

 

"real estate anywhere else in the world"  yeah right,Thailand just aint quite like "anywhere in the world"  All I see  (and I do get around empty/for sale/for rent houses ,flats too if I care to look,and Nakon Nowhere  would not be on my buying spectrum

 

  Any sane person taking due diligence would not touch this market with a barge pole "do homework/buy sensibly" anyone with an ounce of sense would not touch the place   Farang that is   but awaiting the property taxation,now this will be interesting

   Probably already bought,if you give up on the campaign that Im alright jack, come down to earth,realisation its a hopeless mess

 

  Edit  most have stated they are fronted by Thai wife ,GF  for purchase,guess thats OK but taking funds back to anywhere would surely be blocked by the misses

Unlitmaly you are the person who chooses who to marry. So you can't play the blame game if you are unable to afford it. I have no problem with getting back my investment roughly 15 million baht excluding my profit which is around 30%.

It is sound to me that you have experienced a bad apple, however if you choose a wife wisely such as coming from a better family, well educated and more toward your age. there will be a lesser problems compare to marring a bar/massage girl.

Edited February 22, 2020 by mitostone

[Rawairat]

Bought land many years ago and built a reasonable Thai standard house , I doubled my money due to the increase in land prices. Bought a new place in what was a nice estate, now 7 years later I will lose probably 20% based on recent sales around me. The neighbors are mostly Thai and have a different culture when it comes to being what I’d call a friendly neighbor, blocked driveway , noisy dogs etc. I’m keen to sell and I will not buy again unless it’s exceptional value which I doubt I’ll find!!

[wwest5829]

Another consideration as regards long term lodging. Contacts have nothing to do with your ability to be approved to stay in the country as regards immigration requirements. Another thing I considered was not having entanglements (in my case condo ownership) for when I croak.

[khunPer]

On 2/20/2020 at 7:20 AM, BuyHouseBowin said:

Apart from staying in the property 30 years, is there any other advantage of leasehold ?

I found some villages where it is not possible to really buy a house, only leasehold is possible, can you explain me why ?

 

Leasehold means paying in advance the rent for the 30 next years, then we have to pay again after 30 years ? is it correct ?

 

I am new to this concept so maybe I did not understand well, please help me !

When leasing, you pay for 30-years, which can be all in advance, or it can be paid for periods as anything from monthly to annually. In some cases a lease can be terminated by the lessee before the end of the agreed period. Some lease agreements can include that they are transferable – including sale, sometimes you are offered to "buy"a lease with a remaining term of x-number of years – which in my opinion should be a minimum demand for entering an agreement.

 

After 30 years you might have paid full price – or even more – for the property, compared to a trade value when the lease period began. After 30 years your lease is over, and that's the end, there is no such legal thing as 30 years + 30 years lease.

 

You might be able to negotiate for a new lease.

 

Lessor might have promised, spoken or written agreement, to renew the lease, but that is not a servitude; whilst the original rent for longer than 3 years need to be registered as a servitude by the land office, to be legal. Lessor might have sold the land since you entered the original lease 30 years ago, and the new owner need to let the lease continue till the end, but not longer. You have no guaranty that a new lease can be obtained, and you have no guaranty of the price. Often the price will go up, when renewing a rent for another term. If the land has been sold, or original lessor died and heirs taking over, they might not wish to lease the land out at all. How will you take a deceased lessor to court and claim compensation for a 30 year old agreement promising you another lease term, which is not fully in compliance with the intention of the law?

 

If you plan to stay at a certain place long-term, and is happy with no longer than maximum 30-years – for whatever reason, could be age related – a lease agreement is Okay.

 

Concerning buying a property. A foreigner cannot own land in Thailand – except a limit of up to 1 rai if you are staying on "investment visa", and have invested 40 million baht in specified items – but a foreigner can own a house, but not the land, under the house; i.e. the house can be build on leased or rented land. That's quite normal, even among Thais; for business it can make sense that your investment return and profit are all made within 30 years.

 

There are several ways for a foreigner to "own" land – however not without a risk factor – either through marriage, girlfriend or Thai friend that owns the land and lease it out to you, or for example via controlling a Thai company limited that owns the land.

 

Buying compared to renting is a question of term; if the minimum term is about 15 years or longer, it's often cheaper to "invest" than to rent similar property, even if you calculate with no return for the investment. Typically a lease or rent is calculated between 8 percent and 12 percent of the initial investment, for example 10 percent, so in about 10 years time or little longer you have paid for the property, depending of the interest you can gain for your money, until you pay them for rent. In Thailand rent can be as low as 4 percent to 6 percent – some Thais don't include the land under a house in their calculations, as they have the land anyway, and the land keeps it value, the building don't – so if that's the possibility for a similar property that you consider to buy, the period is longer before it's better to buy than renting; could be as long as 30 years.

 

Another aspect is that when you "own" your home, you can do (almost) whatever you want, if you rent or lease it you are limited. Just the feeling can make a difference. Furthermore it's a question of risk – remembering the old saying that you shall not invest more in Thailand, than you can afford to loose – you talk about 1 million baht, which in many cases is a relative affordable amount, especially when compared to home country currency, i.e. $34,000 or €30,000. With the various ways to "own" property, and a risk calculation, buying might be the best long-term solution...????

 

PS: For your info, I'm a house owner on rented land, in my case just around 10-years makes the turning point from renting a similar house, 15 years if I instead had rented a smaller old house.

[Rimmer]

Three inflammatory posts from the same person have been removed, also a reply. 

[DaRoadrunner]

On 2/21/2020 at 10:35 AM, transam said:

I am married to someone who can, chummy....

Then what control do you have?

[transam]

12 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Then what control do you have?

The same as any bloke in most countries when things go wrong between couples...

I do have the T-shirt, no two T-shirts...????

[saengd]

Or a third option, buy using an usufruct which gives you the legal right to control who can and cannot live in the house, if and when it is sold, the selling price etc. 

[Onrai]

Do the math to establish your break even point. If you built a house for 3 million bhat or could rent a place for place for 120,000 bhat/yr your break even point is 25 years. Meaning for years 1-25 it will cost you less to rent than buy. Plug in any numbers for rent and cost of building in your area to get a comparison. 

Of course if you plan to be with your Thai wife for the rest of your life and want to leave her the house and land then building will insure her future after you are gone. 

 

[mcl2504]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:00 AM, fordguy61mi said:

Differing opinions. I think it’s foolish to buy anything in Thailand since renting is so cheap and you can move in an instant. You never know how the government will change and you might have to get out fast. We don’t live here. We’re merely guests.

I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant. Take this for what it's worth.

 

* A Thai lawyer can help you set up a company that can legally buy land+house. Some consider this a dodgy practice; others consider it perfectly normal. There are some risks involved.

* If you buy a house and sell after a period of time, even if you take a loss, the loss (+ expenses of buying and selling) almost never equal or exceed the cost of renting the same property. Buying is almost always the better financial choice.

* Flexibility is also a consideration. However, with flexibility comes insecurity. You may be able to leave when you want, but your landlord can also kick you out when he or she wants.

* Every individual is going to have different priorities, so the right solution for one person may well not be the right solution for another.

[saengd]

44 minutes ago, mcl2504 said:

I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant. Take this for what it's worth.

 

* A Thai lawyer can help you set up a company that can legally buy land+house. Some consider this a dodgy practice; others consider it perfectly normal. There are some risks involved.

* If you buy a house and sell after a period of time, even if you take a loss, the loss (+ expenses of buying and selling) almost never equal or exceed the cost of renting the same property. Buying is almost always the better financial choice.

* Flexibility is also a consideration. However, with flexibility comes insecurity. You may be able to leave when you want, but your landlord can also kick you out when he or she wants.

* Every individual is going to have different priorities, so the right solution for one person may well not be the right solution for another.

It is illegal for foreigners in Thailand to own a Thai company whose sole purpose is to own a single dwelling and where that company is controlled by the foreigner, regardless of how many Thai shareholders there are.

[rech]

On 2/25/2020 at 10:31 AM, saengd said:

It is illegal for foreigners in Thailand to own a Thai company whose sole purpose is to own a single dwelling and where that company is controlled by the foreigner, regardless of how many Thai shareholders there are.

 

who cares what is legal or not in this country ? ????

 

 

[WhatsNext]

On 2/25/2020 at 9:45 AM, mcl2504 said:

 

* If you buy a house and sell after a period of time, even if you take a loss, the loss (+ expenses of buying and selling) almost never equal or exceed the cost of renting the same property. Buying is almost always the better financial choice.

 

Everyone always forgets lost revenue on the money invested in the house..

Say you have a 10MB house, that 10MB could be earning a very conservative 3% annually

Afer 10 years that equals to 3.4MB. Or roughly 28.400 Baht per month, that you could have used for renting. 

 

To fully recover your costs you need 13.4 + 10 years of pool/garden/project costs, average of 6.000 a month and of course repairs and maintenance of the house, say 3000 a month average. Total costs of your 10MB house : 14.5MB 

Good luck selling a used house for 14.5mb to the handful EU/US guys that look for one !

Edited May 31, 2020 by WhatsNext