Here's Another One Of Those Depressing Vaf1 Refusal Posts

[brokenmoose]

I have to say, I’m pretty f###ed off about the whole thing.

My wife and I have been together for 4 years and been married since January. We we’re first going for a VAF2 but decided on a VAF1( family visit) ,due to the fact that as a sponsor I’m skint. My Dad decided to sponsor her for a 6 month VAF1….

We got our refusal back this morning. We failed on the 2 points “Is genuinely seeking entry as a visitor for a limited period, not exceeding 6 months” and “ Intends to leave the UK at the end of the period as stated”……….. They also questioned the validity of our relationship due to the fact that last year I lost my passport, so don’t have all the visa stamps for the period of time we were together.

In retrospect we did heavily base the application on the sponsorship side of things ( which they said was fine) and I dint prove I’d been in Thailand for that amount of time. We we’re naïve to say the least.

My wife had a reference from her employer where she works as a music teacher and the bar where she sings and has done for 7 years. The school said that she has a job on her return to Thailand. Apparently this isn’t sufficient evidence that she is not going to join the black market at home.

The other thing that really pi**es me off is the statement that “Your application has been considered on the basis of the papers and documents submitted and without a telephone interview”. In fact she had 3 different telephone interviews. One of which they called to verify if my father was her husband. If they had the application next to them, they could read that Im her spouse under what is the spouse's is my name bit on the aplication form. They also asked her my mother’s age. Christ! I would struggle with that question. Actually I do struggle with that question.

Now what to do??

What is a good time to put in a fresh application? My sister has her wedding in May (invites were included in our application), and my Dad has booked us a 2 week holiday in Scotland (which was mentioned in his letter).

We’re thinking about strengthening our application and applying again right away. I.e. Monday, we were refused on Thursday…

I’m digging up old boarding passes and 4 year old bank statements (with Thai bank withdrawals). The only way to prove I’ve been spending 6 months a year here for 4 years. I also have my tenancy agreement from our Bangkok apartment with my name on it, dated 2005. Sending print outs of more E mails I’ve managed to dig up too.

We’re also changing the 6 month visit to a 3 month visit (or less?)

My wife has been offered a job signing in Krabi. She now has a contract and start date with fixed wages and it states that if she doesn’t return she will lose her job. She’s also getting a will sent down from her Mum, promising a substantial plot of land in Chain Rai. We have numerous press cuttings from Magazines and papers reporting on her singing (which we didn’t submit before). Problem is as a singer she gets most of her wages cash in hand. Her bank statement are pretty much non existant.

Do you think this will give us a better chance?

Should we apply for less than 3 months?

I know we had a week application but the fact is we are genuine, are married and HAVE been together 4 years.

This is killing me. To top it off my ipod packed in this morning and I have a dicky tummy and a mild fever….. Boll**s poor me!!!!!!!!

[stament]

From the small amount I've read on the subject, I think most people leave it a little while before making a fresh app. Could you appeal at all and give additional info? Again, I'm not sure you can for a visitor visa if that's what you applied for.

Scouse is probably your best bet, he and others on here are very informative.

Incidentally, how long did it take to process the original application?

Best of luck

[brokenmoose]

Thanks for the quick reply mate. It took them 10 days to process. Three days before the first telephone interview ( which didnt did'nt really happen of course )

[the scouser]

There nothing stopping your wife immediately making a second application. However, having pinned your 6-month colours to the mast, if you now state that the visit will be of only 3 months' duration, there's a risk that the visa officer simply won't believe you, unless you provide a piece of evidence to substantiate this.

The one thing that would concern the visa officer is the timing of it all. You've known each other 4 years during which time your wife has never sought to visit the UK (is that correct?). You then marry in January 2007 and almost immediately seek a 6-month visit visa. It goes without saying that the visa officer thinks you're trying to get her in to the UK on the back of a visit visa, rather than pay the £500.00 for a settlement visa.

If you re-apply, go to town on your covering letter, and detail the minutae of your relationship from day one, backing this up with the available evidence. Also demonstrate the reasons both you and your wife have for returning to Thailand at the end of the visit. If you work, submit evidence of this and your work permit.

All the best,

Scouse.

[brokenmoose]

Thanks Scouser. I have to say it's certainly looking like I will have to get some sort of job, a work permit and move out here permanently; if I want to stay with my wife. I have no job here, or in the UK. Used to saving for 6 months, then chilling out here 6.........

No my wife has never tried for a UK visa in the 4 years we’ve been together; mainly because of our finances. We nearly put a visitor visa in around 2005(had the form filled in + documents), but decided we would save the cash for 3 months in India. The next year we had a month in China and some beach time here. Now we’re married, the idea of 6 months apart again while I save just leaves me completely depressed and deflated.

We didn’t apply for a settlement visa because I am out of work, and therefore an unworthy sponsor? With the 6 month family visa my father could be the sponsor. I planed to introduce her to British culture, get a job then come back and apply for a settlement visa 6 months later(unless she hates it in UK, in which case, I would try to get a job here). Now I realize this was a mistake. On the other hand, I heard we have no chance on settlement, unless I have a job at home, or at least a job offer. I.e. my father’s sponsorship wouldn’t come into our settlement application.

Do you think it would be better to go for settlement visa then, and explain why we tried visitor first? Or try again for 6 months visitor with new documents (at least then it looks like we’re sticking to our guns)? We have my sisters wedding to visit (she came out here for ours) and a holiday paid for us as a wedding gift. That seems like a genuine reason for a family visit if ever I heard one. One last thing, should we just go for a 2 week visitor visa for the wedding alone then? I’ll get a job, and then my wife can apply for a settlement visa when she gets back here. So many options, it’s really confusing!

Well, well give it another shot, one way or the other, with the new documents. This is a total nightmare. They are playing with our lives here. I feel sick. Will this be a huge black mark against her for the future then?

Well thanks for any feed back. I really am grateful, even if I do sound like a miserable twit.

[markr]

Hi,

Your dad acting as your sponsor should not be a problem, If you think about it, there are many people in your position, currently living in thailand with there partners and wanting to relocate back to the uk, just make sure you explain this very carefully to the embassy when you make your next application.

If your farther has the means to support and accomodate you, and can prove it, then you should be ok!

Do you have any official qualifications? If so show them to the embassy to prove that you wont have a problem finding work when you return, all this will back up your case.(settlement)

As i siad there will be lots of people in your work situation when coming back home,you just have to prove to them that it wont be a problem.

Last but not least don't let it make you miserable, stay positive, you'll get there in the end!!!!!!

Good luck,

Mark

Edited April 5, 2007 by markr

[the scouser]

I wouldn't apply for a settlement visa just for the sake of it. If one of the reasons they've turned down your wife's visit application is because they question the validity of your relationship, they are hardly likely to now accept it in relation to a settlement application. Having said that, there is no reason why your father should not present himself as a third party sponsor if your wife wishes to make a settlement application. Technically speaking, you are meant to be self-supporting in relation to a settlement visa, but it is not unreasonable for your father to offer support until such a time as you and your wife can do so for yourselves.

Scouse.

[brokenmoose]

Thanks for the encouragement/ advice. We really were very foolish when applying. We left out, maybe 350 e mails, lots of photos of us all around Asia (me looking surprisingly young 4 years ago) and lots of our wedding pics(which was quite a lavish wedding with over 200 people). We’re not so good on the phone calls because I used lots of different cards and have no records. We’re trying to get our western union details back too. So I think we can prove the validity( although I assumed we would get this visa).

I’m still a bit confused as to what we should do. Wait a little, and try for a settlement visa on the back of my Dad’s faineances (and risk the VO thinking we are trying it on (although I can write a letter explaining our confusion), or try for another 6 monther with more about my wife’s work, more of her media cuttings. She’s quite famous out here in some musical circles and has had numerous magazine articles and interviews written about her/ TV appearances (VH1 etc). Maybe it is better to stick with what we first applied for? Am I going round in circles here??

[the scouser]

If your intention is to visit the UK, then reapply for a visit visa, supplying the additional evidence you've mentioned.

Scouse.

[jbsears]

The problem seems to be with her intent to return to Thailand. I am more familiar with the US but it is probably similar with the UK. The 6 months is probably a problem. What kind of person can really get 6 months off work and still have a job when they come back? Is the school she works at a government school or a small private music school? If her letters are from a bar and a private music school, they probably won't carry much weight. If you ask for a visa that is 3 or 4 weeks which is plenty of time to attend the wedding and see family, you may have a better chance. Even 3 months is a long time to believe they will still have a job waiting. If she can take off for 3-6 months from work, what is stopping her from not coming back and just staying in the UK. It seems her job isn't that important if she can leave for that long. This is just what I believe the Embassy is thinking when denying her visa.

[Doggsy]

my g/f was rejected in september last year. we picked the passport up on the thursday, read why we had been rejected, added more to the application, (we were rejected on not enough proof of a relationship, no invitation from the uk and no letter from her employer) and i submitted it the next monday. A week later she had her tourist visa. I only applied for 3 1/2 months the secondf time and 5 months the first time.

We then applied for a settlement visa a week ago and it was approved after a week. Due to our experience the first time with the tourist visa when we applied for the settlement visa we just put in as much proof as possible. Proof of everything, copies of my tefl cert, my degree, pictures throughout our relationship, and with my friends and family. Anything you can think of we included.

[brokenmoose]

Thanks again jbsears, scouser and all of you. One more thing I didn't mention is that my wife was granted a European union visa issued by the Duch embassy here, 5 years ago. She used it to travel and perform at Jazz and Blues festevals in Holland and Germany, afterwich she promptly reterned back to Thailand with out entering the black market etc, ect...

Anyway, after thinking about it, I reckon I'll write a letter to the V.O. and just apply for a month in the uk, explaining our mistake and hopefuly, if we get it, we can think about a future settlement visa, as planned......... CHEERS and goodnight

[the scouser]

Overall, sounds like a good plan.

Scouse.

[brokenmoose]

After telling all our friends we failed our first application, we have about 30 offers (so far, and definitely more in the future days) of letters to be written to the British embassy on our behalf, from friends who know us both, and will vouch we are a genuine couple and that my wife is trust worthy. Some of these people are important…… i.e. high in UN as well as famous writers active and influential in Asia etc. Will this help us, or just irritate the VO ??????

[the scouser]

. Will this help us, or just irritate the VO?

Go for it! You should use all the tools that are available. If it irritates the visa officer, it's only because s/he doesn't have the same influence that you have.

Scouse

[atlastaname]

I think most of your problems are down to lack of money. With more money you probably wouldn't have been refused because everything else would have slotted into place. Unfortunately being skint (your word) isn't a good thing in the world of visas and immigration. With money you can produce nice bank statements which , together with your long relationship, would have given her more reason to return and impressed the VO.

You've been given loads of advice above , but yours won't be easy now , you have a mountain to climb.

Do let us know what you do next

[the gent]

Au contraire, I rather think you and your chum have a good chance of success but only if you keep your powder dry and ensure that your aim is true. To ensure that, I think a spot of professional care may well pay dividends, don't you?

Edited April 7, 2007 by the gent

[Mossfinn]

Au contraire, I rather think you and your chum have a good chance of success but only if you keep your powder dry and ensure that your aim is true. To ensure that, I think a spot of professional care may well pay dividends, don't you?

Possibly for the second or maybe third time, our Gentleman Troll Buster, I agree.

Good Luck

Moss

Edited April 7, 2007 by Mossfinn

[brokenmoose]

Cheers all. Well, here are the developments in the last few days. Firstly my wife’s mother has visited a lawyer and had quite a substantial plot of land transferred to my wife's name.

Secondly she has a new contract singing in Krabi, all above board. The contract is on business paper heading, and addressed to the Embassy as proof. 50,000 bht a month plus food and accommodation. Believe me, if she enters the UK black market, she won’t make this much! Only problem is the contract doesn’t start until the 1^st of Dec, this year.

Thirdly our friend, who is high in UN SE Asia, has written a letter to the embassy (on UN headed paper), which we will put in our application. She sponsored my wife to tour Holland and Germany 4 years ago (a tour from which, indecently, she did return from). In the letter is a character reference, and also she mentions our relationship is valid and she has known us as a couple for 4 years.

Fourthly, I have traced an old passport with stamps for Thailand 2004 in it, a photo copy of my lost passport (nothing from the inside pages I’m afraid), photo copy’s of my flight tickets for 2004, 05 and 06 and bank statements for these years with withdrawals in Thailand. This should be evidence enough to substantiate I was actually here then.

With this new evidence we are going for a 3 month tourist visa (with covering letter, explaining our change of plans). This should be long enough to go to my sisters wedding, spend some time in a crofter’s cottage in the highlands, do some typical tourist stuff and generally give my wife a feel for the country.

Well, the embassy didn’t give us back my Fathers letter of invitation so he has had to post that back out here. Wont arrive until Friday, and we’re off to Chaing Rai for Sonkran, so we wont have the application in for a bit. I hope it won’t take too long to process; with having a past cancellation and all….

Thanks again for all the advice…………

[twix38]

good luck to you,

I have to say, it did cross my mind why you have never really got a decent job for a decent period of time and hence some savings behind you and then sponsored your wife yourself from the begining. Makes you sound like a real Good Time Guy and I too would be a little concerned at this and your original lack of detail etc.

You have to admit it does you no favours to be unable to support your wife as amongst other visa requirements, is that she would not have recourse to state help or benefits and you needed a sponsor (your Dad) simply to facilitate this basic requirement.

Good luck anyway, as my assumptions may well be wrong. 6 months here and 6 months there without any financial independence seems to suggest otherwise though.