Turkey strikes Syrian planes and airports, escalating Idlib fight

[webfact]

Turkey strikes Syrian planes and airports, escalating Idlib fight

By Ali Kucukgocmen and Ellen Francis

 

FILE PHOTO: Turkey's Defence Minister Hulusi Akar attends a NATO defence ministers meeting at the Alliance headquarters in Brussels, Belgium February 12, 2020. REUTERS/Francois Lenoir

 

ISTANBUL/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Turkey shot down two Syrian warplanes over Idlib on Sunday and struck a military airport well beyond its frontlines in a sharp escalation of its military operations following the death of dozens of Turkish soldiers last week.

 

Ankara has ramped up its attacks, including drone strikes, against the Russian-backed Syrian forces since Thursday, when 33 Turkish soldiers were killed in an air strike by Damascus.

 

It has already deployed thousands of troops and military vehicles in northwest Syria's Idlib province in the last month to stem advances by Syrian government forces which have displaced 1 million people close to Turkey's southern border.

 

Already hosting 3.6 million Syrian refugees, Ankara is determined to prevent any further influx from Syria. It has also let migrants cross its borders into the European Union, in an apparent effort to press for EU support in tackling the Syria crisis.

 

Defence Minister Hulusi Akar said in the last four days Turkish forces destroyed eight helicopters, 103 tanks, 72 howitzers, rocket launchers, a drone and six air defence systems. He dubbed Turkey's operation, its fourth incursion in Syria in four years, "Operation Spring Shield".

 

In response, Syria's army said it shot down three Turkish drones and warned it would take down any aircraft breaching the air space over the northwest, which has been controlled for years by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's main ally Russia.

 

Despite the warning, Turkish warplanes downed two Syrian warplanes, while Turkey's state-owned Anadolu agency said the Turkish military had targeted and rendered unusable Nayrab airport, west of Aleppo city.

 

Turkey-backed opposition commanders also said Kuweires airport, east of Nayrab, had been bombed since midnight. Both airports are well inside Syrian government controlled territory, marking a significant expansion of Ankara's targets.

 

The fighting has risked drawing Russia and Turkey, who cooperated for years to contain the fighting despite backing rival sides in Syria's nine-year war, into direct conflict.

 

"We have neither the intention nor the notion to face Russia. Our only intention there is for the (Syrian) regime to end the massacre and thereby prevent ... radicalisation and migration," Turkey's Akar said.

 

He said that 2,212 members of the Syrian forces had been "neutralised", a term used to designate killed, wounded or captured. The Syrian Observatory, a Britain-based war monitor, said 74 Syrian government troops and pro-Damascus fighters had been killed since Feb. 27.

 

Fifty-five Turkish troops were killed in Idlib in February.

 

Turkey shot down two Syrian warplanes over Idlib on Sunday and struck a military airport well beyond its frontlines in a sharp escalation of its military operations following the death of dozens of Turkish soldiers last week. Soraya Ali reports.

 

CRISIS DIPLOMACY

Diplomatic efforts by Ankara and Moscow to defuse tensions have failed to agree a ceasefire in Idlib, part of Syria's last major rebel stronghold.

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Saturday that while there was progress in talks between Turkish and Russian delegations, the Idlib issue would only be resolved between presidents Tayyip Erdogan and Vladimir Putin.

 

A senior Turkish official and a security official said the meeting would be held on Thursday in Moscow. The officials said the two leaders would discuss steps to take in Idlib and that they were expected to reach a mutual agreement.

 

The Kremlin said it hoped Erdogan and Putin would meet on Thursday or Friday. Cavusoglu and his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov agreed on the need to create a "favourable atmosphere" to improve working relations between their countries, Russia's foreign ministry said.

 

The latest fighting in Idlib has uprooted 1 million civilians since December, many of them women and children fleeing towards the Turkish border.

 

Turkey said it would allow migrants to cross into Europe in anticipation of an imminent new migrant influx from Idlib, lifting restraints on movement in place since 2016 under a deal with the European Union.

 

Greek police fired tear gas to repel hundreds of stone-throwing migrants who sought to force their way across the border from Turkey on Sunday, witnesses said, with thousands more behind them after Ankara relaxed curbs on their movement.

 

Turkey's borders to Europe were closed to migrants under the accord between the Turkish-EU deal that halted the 2015-16 migration crisis, when more than 1 million people crossed into Europe.

 

(Additional reporting by Orhan Coskun in Ankara, Khalil Ashawi in Syria and Suleiman al-Khalidi in Amman, Andrey Ostroukh in Moscow; Writing by Ali Kucukgocmen; Editing by Dominic Evans, Mark Heinrich and Andrew Heavens)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-03-02

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[thaibeachlovers]

I'm somewhat confused. Apparently Turkey has invaded a sovereign country and attacked its military, but demand that Russia, an ally of Syria, do nothing. What I don't understand is why no one is calling this a war. Where is the UN wringing it hands as usual and begging the antagonists to be good and stop fighting? Far as I know, Syria is still a member of the UN.

[justin case]

maybe they can kill each other and solve the problem 

[leeneeds]

No dialogue, no compassion, no sense, 

another human failure,

if we cared about humans as much as the wild life in Africa

maybe common sense would come to the fore.

[JustAnotherHun]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm somewhat confused. Apparently Turkey has invaded a sovereign country and attacked its military, but demand that Russia, an ally of Syria, do nothing.

Not only. They also are crying for Nato help after the turkish invaders lost some troops in the war they have started. At the same time Erdogan sends tens of thousands "refugees" to the Greece borders to set Europe under pressure.

Not to forget: The turkish invaders in Idlib are supporting islamists.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm somewhat confused. Apparently Turkey has invaded a sovereign country and attacked its military, but demand that Russia, an ally of Syria, do nothing. What I don't understand is why no one is calling this a war. Where is the UN wringing it hands as usual and begging the antagonists to be good and stop fighting? Far as I know, Syria is still a member of the UN.

 

Indeed but all politics. Turkey, who still refuses to admit the Armenian genocide and get's arsy with anyone who mentions it, wants to slaughter the Kurds and occupy a tranche of Syria as a "safe zone". Erdogan also likes the idea of expanding Turkey and Turkish influence a la Ottomans.

 

But Turkey is NATO member, although now at odds with most other members one way or another. Russia of course is still NATO's bogey man.

 

Syria is backed by Russia but the US want a regime change there - one that does what the US want.

 

Perhaps time for some hardball. NATO phone Vlad and tell him they won't honor the NATO pact to defend a member country if it's attacked in Turkey's case. Seeing as Erdogan never honors things when it suits.  That should keep those two busy for a while.

[thaibeachlovers]

44 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed but all politics. Turkey, who still refuses to admit the Armenian genocide and get's arsy with anyone who mentions it, wants to slaughter the Kurds and occupy a tranche of Syria as a "safe zone". Erdogan also likes the idea of expanding Turkey and Turkish influence a la Ottomans.

 

But Turkey is NATO member, although now at odds with most other members one way or another. Russia of course is still NATO's bogey man.

 

Syria is backed by Russia but the US want a regime change there - one that does what the US want.

 

Perhaps time for some hardball. NATO phone Vlad and tell him they won't honor the NATO pact to defend a member country if it's attacked in Turkey's case. Seeing as Erdogan never honors things when it suits.  That should keep those two busy for a while.

Would an attack on Turkish forces in Syria qualify as an attack on Turkey proper? After all it is there illegally.

Anyway, Russia needs only supply SAMs to Syria- it doesn't need to man them.

[simple1]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm somewhat confused. Apparently Turkey has invaded a sovereign country and attacked its military, but demand that Russia, an ally of Syria, do nothing. What I don't understand is why no one is calling this a war. Where is the UN wringing it hands as usual and begging the antagonists to be good and stop fighting? Far as I know, Syria is still a member of the UN.

Idlib province generally is 'ungoverned territory' as Syria does not have overall control, only in areas it has occupied. Exactly how can the UN intervene in the Syrian civil war? Currently no chance UN could send in military forces, if indeed a UN member country would agree to fund and send forces, as Russia has right of veto.

 

Regards Idlib, Russian and Syrian air power are still deliberately attacking civilians, schools and hospitals, in other words War Crimes. Seems the only way forward in Idlib is for Turkey, Syria and Russia to sort out their policy differences, but wouldn't hold my breath due to Assad's sworn goal to reoccupy lost territory no matter the cost in lives and refugee outflow. The Syrian Kurds are still very exposed after trump's betrayal, again no resolution in sight.

Edited March 2, 2020 by simple1

[than]

 

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed but all politics. Turkey, who still refuses to admit the Armenian genocide and get's arsy with anyone who mentions it, wants to slaughter the Kurds and occupy a tranche of Syria as a "safe zone". Erdogan also likes the idea of expanding Turkey and Turkish influence a la Ottomans.

 

But Turkey is NATO member, although now at odds with most other members one way or another. Russia of course is still NATO's bogey man.

 

Syria is backed by Russia but the US want a regime change there - one that does what the US want.

 

Perhaps time for some hardball. NATO phone Vlad and tell him they won't honor the NATO pact to defend a member country if it's attacked in Turkey's case. Seeing as Erdogan never honors things when it suits.  That should keep those two busy for a while.

Turkey is not attacked but it is the aggressor.
Article 5 of NATO cannot be used. The only uncertainty in this story will be TRUMP.

 

[nemo38]

34 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Regards Idlib, Russian and Syrian air power are still deliberately attacking civilians, schools and hospitals, in other words War Crimes.

Rubbish. Why would Syria be attacking their own people? For laughs? Why would Russia join the fun? In order to bring about western intervention, which Israel desperately wants?

 

Syria, like Libya, would have been far better off if there had been no intervention. They would be better off now if people stay out of their affairs.

 

Turkey can easily be controlled. Just slap a tax on their goods, ban flights, deny visas to Turkish people. They will have a civil war. If you want to play hardball cancel the citizenship of Turks living in the west and send them back to Turkey. Turkey is only a problem for as long as we allow Turkey to be a problem.

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, nemo38 said:

Rubbish. Why would Syria be attacking their own people? For laughs? Why would Russia join the fun? <SNIP>.

An uncomplicated intro, Syrian government is a Shiite minority dictatorship, attacking their Syrian Sunni opposition as an outcome of the 2011 Syrian Arab Spring. Russia, along with Iran is supporting the dictatorship. However, suggest you do some research - some starting material...

 

https://guides.library.cornell.edu/arab_spring/Syria

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/31/world/middleeast/syria-united-nations-investigation.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian–Syrian_hospital_bombing_campaign

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/russian-bombing-of-syria

Edited March 2, 2020 by simple1

[JustAnotherHun]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Suggest you do some research

Same for you.

when the 30 turkish invaders werde killed, they were together with Haiat Tahrir al-Scham militia. These are hardcore islamists with close ties to Al Quaeda, supported by Erdogan.

 

 

Who controls Idlib?

Idlib has been controlled by a number of rival opposition factions since government forces lost control of the province in 2015.

The main armed groups operating there are:

• Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS, a jihadist alliance)
• National Liberation Front (Turkish-backed rebel alliance)
• Hurras al-Din (pro-al-Qaeda HTS offshoot)
• Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP, Chinese Uighur-dominated jihadist group)

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45401474

Edited March 2, 2020 by JustAnotherHun

[rabas]

Maybe Erdogan can shoot some his new Russian S400 missiles at the Syrian and Russian planes. Oops, the codes don't work, surprise!

[simple1]

4 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Same for you.

when the 30 turkish invaders werde killed, they were together with Haiat Tahrir al-Scham militia. These are hardcore islamists with close ties to Al Quaeda, supported by Erdogan.

Fully aware of Turkish forces alongside Jihadists in Idlib. However, IMO Jihadists and Assad forces & militia are as bad as each other.

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed but all politics. Turkey, who still refuses to admit the Armenian genocide and get's arsy with anyone who mentions it, wants to slaughter the Kurds and occupy a tranche of Syria as a "safe zone". Erdogan also likes the idea of expanding Turkey and Turkish influence a la Ottomans.

 

But Turkey is NATO member, although now at odds with most other members one way or another. Russia of course is still NATO's bogey man.

 

Syria is backed by Russia but the US want a regime change there - one that does what the US want.

 

Perhaps time for some hardball. NATO phone Vlad and tell him they won't honor the NATO pact to defend a member country if it's attacked in Turkey's case. Seeing as Erdogan never honors things when it suits.  That should keep those two busy for a while.

You forgot Iran ????

[nemo38]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

An uncomplicated intro, Syrian government is a Shiite minority dictatorship, attacking their Syrian Sunni opposition as an outcome of the 2011 Syrian Arab Spring. Russia, along with Iran is supporting the dictatorship. However, suggest you do some research - some starting material...

 

 

 

Assad is very popular with Syrians. His behavior doesn't reach a threshold which justifies this carnage.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, nemo38 said:

 

Assad is very popular with Syrians. His behavior doesn't reach a threshold which justifies this carnage.

Yes, those surviving Shiite & Christian minority (approx 15% of the pre-Civil War population) supporting his dictatorship.

[Tropposurfer]

9 hours ago, leeneeds said:

No dialogue, no compassion, no sense, 

another human failure,

if we cared about humans as much as the wild life in Africa

maybe common sense would come to the fore.

Right on completely agree with you! Thank you for saying what you have ... let's all get soft hearted, and motivated to action about saving stray dogs, rhinos etc (not that animals shouldn't be cared about!) but f..k people (mostly poor and trying to simply live their lives with some small degree of dignity) ... we really are a horrid species ...

 

[rabas]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

You forgot Iran ????

Iran is preoccupied. A number of senior leaders are reported to have the coronavirus, and

 

Adviser to Iranian Supreme Leader Khamenei Dies of Coronavirus

 

Khamenei already lost his top advisor, Soleimeni. Iran's in bad shape, maybe Syria will ban flights from Iran. Iraq has closed its borders. Going forward I would not discount the coronavirus in strategic equations.

[JustAnotherHun]

Idlib is the last stronghold of islamist men slaughters on Syrian territory and the terror friend Erdogan is on their side.

Thanks to Russia for doing the job the west should do. It was mainly Russia that put an end to the islamic state in Syria.

[simple1]

7 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Idlib is the last stronghold of islamist men slaughters on Syrian territory and the terror friend Erdogan is on their side.

Thanks to Russia for doing the job the west should do. It was mainly Russia that put an end to the islamic state in Syria.

It was the US led coalition (with mainly Kurds as front line fighters - 10,000 killed)  who were the major contributor to the collapse of the IS Caliphate in Syria and Iraq. Want to dispute, then provide credible source links. 

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/timeline-the-rise-spread-and-fall-the-islamic-state

[JustAnotherHun]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

It was the US led coalition (with mainly Kurds as front line fighters - 10,000 killed)  who were the major contributor to the collapse of the IS Caliphate in Syria and Iraq. Want to dispute, then provide credible source links. 

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/timeline-the-rise-spread-and-fall-the-islamic-state

You didn't read your link, did you? It says nothing. If you want to learn about the fall od ISIS in Syria, use Google again and if possinle, more than 5 seconds.

It was the Kurds on the one side and the russian backed syrian forces at the other that made an end to the islamist terrorists in most parts of the country. Some airstrikes by the US and their allies surely were helpful, nothing else.

You cannot win such a fight without ground troops. That's basic knowledge.

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, rabas said:

Iran is preoccupied. A number of senior leaders are reported to have the coronavirus, and

 

Adviser to Iranian Supreme Leader Khamenei Dies of Coronavirus

 

Khamenei already lost his top advisor, Soleimeni. Iran's in bad shape, maybe Syria will ban flights from Iran. Iraq has closed its borders. Going forward I would not discount the coronavirus in strategic equations.

Iran is there.

[Bluespunk]

On 3/2/2020 at 12:34 AM, webfact said:

We have neither the intention nor the notion to face Russia.

That’s for sure. 

 

On 3/2/2020 at 12:34 AM, webfact said:

Our only intention there is for the (Syrian) regime to end the massacre and thereby prevent ... radicalisation and migration," Turkey's Akar said.

BS. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Bluespunk
Grammar

[heina]

Mr. Putin will make kebab out from Mr. Erdogan in Kremlin after tomorrow.

[simple1]

6 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

You didn't read your link, did you? It says nothing. If you want to learn about the fall od ISIS in Syria, use Google again and if possinle, more than 5 seconds.

It was the Kurds on the one side and the russian backed syrian forces at the other that made an end to the islamist terrorists in most parts of the country. Some airstrikes by the US and their allies surely were helpful, nothing else.

You cannot win such a fight without ground troops. That's basic knowledge.

A 'few' US coalition airstrikes in Syria - nonsense - an example...

 

https://airwars.org/data/

 

Personally I have followed the situation with IS for a number of years and posted on the topic. 

 

I assume you know the Assad forces very nearly collapsed due to massive personnel loses until the Russian air power intervention and the Shiites losing faith in Assad at the time with avoiding conscription. The Syrians were much more focused on general anti regime forces rather than IS and primarily targeted the NW and Western areas of Syria, not the N.E. & Eastern areas where IS was mostly concentrated. Of course Russia, Iran and Syrian forces destroyed many IS fighters. But now the Russians are being condemned for documented War Crimes. The Assad dictatorship has a terrible record of indiscriminate killing with huge numbers of civilian torture victims 

 

The ultimate demonstration of coalition effectiveness is today the US coalition Kurds occupy approx 25% of Syrian territory which had previous been conquered by IS. Prior to the Turkish intervention Kurds held approx 30% of Syrian territory.

Edited March 3, 2020 by simple1