Britain tells the EU: we shall not sell out our fishermen

[melvinmelvin]

35 minutes ago, transam said:

Total tosh....

hmmm

how would not being party to EEC/EU sort the inequality in UK`?

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

hmmm

how would not being party to EEC/EU sort the inequality in UK`?

 

 

Where is the inequality in the UK...?

I would suggest there are EU countries that have way lower equality than the UK, that's why so many try and get into the UK...

[talahtnut]

40 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

no problem with your lead in,

but how you manage to conclude the way you do

 

what did EEC do to prevent UK from prospering?

(and without the help of UK cabinet and HoC)

 

Take a look at Iceland.

Then Greece, Italy etc.

[Logosone]

You think the EU prevented Greece from prospering economically?

 

Are you high?

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You are making light of it but my one sentence is totally correct. It is not the EU that is responsible for the rampant inequality in the UK. How long is it since the report linking Tory austerity measures to 120,000 early deaths was published, and how many more have died since, because the Tories remain in power? Yet the post above claims that our poor are struggling because we were in the EU? You couldn't make it up!

That has been shown to be incorrect and/or not proven 

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people

[sanemax]

13 minutes ago, Logosone said:

You think the EU prevented Greece from prospering economically?

 

Are you high?

Greece having the Euro as its currency rendered them unable to deevaluate its currency and ward of recession 

Edited March 8, 2020 by sanemax

[Logosone]

Ok,

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Greece having the Euro as its currency rendered them unable to evaluate its currency and ward of recession 

 

Looks like another gullible victim of the Yannis Varoufakis propaganda lies.

 

Please don't post total nonsense.

 

Greece is in economic melt down because for decades it has lived over its means, much like the UK is doing now. But unlike the UK Greece does not have the same family silver to sell.

 

If it were not for the EU and the German taxpayer in particular Greek hospital patients would not be getting medicines now.

 

Thanks to the EU Greece is able to function at all, DESPITE ruining its economy with idiotic hand out policies.

 

To argue that the EU is to blame for Greek economic woes is frankly the height of intellectual vandalism. 

 

Absolutely unbeatable nonsense.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Logosone

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Not really you failed to criticize the article you instead decided to make a comment against the poster says it all

If you had been engaged in trade with the EU prior to the single market you would be aware of how tariffs operate and not need an opinionated article as to the benefits the SM brought to the small UK exporter.

Of course trying to deride personal experience is a way of life to many on this forum.

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Ok,

 

Looks like another gullible victim of the Yannis Varoufakis propaganda lies.

 

Please don't post total nonsense.

 

Greece is in economic melt down because for decades it has lived over its means, much like the UK is doing now. But unlike the UK Greece does not have the same family silver to sell.

 

If it were not for the EU and the German taxpayer in particular Greek hospital patients would not be getting medicines now.

 

Thanks to the EU Greece is able to function at all, DESPITE ruining its economy with idiotic hand out policies.

 

To argue that the EU is to blame for Greek economic woes is frankly the height of intellectual vandalism. 

 

Absolutely unbeatable nonsense.

Yes, the Greek government is to blame to getting Greece into such a mess .

Devaluing the Drachma would have helped then get out the mess .

As they couldnt devalue the Euro , their mess got even worse

[Logosone]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, the Greek government is to blame to getting Greece into such a mess .

Devaluing the Drachma would have helped then get out the mess .

As they couldnt devalue the Euro , their mess got even worse

 

Damn right it is. What those politicians/criminals did was utterly unbelievable.

 

And the billions which the EU taxpayers are handing Greece obviously vastly outweighs any supposed benefits devaluation would have had.

 

Didn't Norman Lamont try to take executive action in regarding the value of the Pound, how did that go? Black Wednesday showed governments are powerless to determine the value of a currency in most circumstances.

 

Moreover the British Pound has lost spectacularly in value for many decades, without it helping the economy in any meaningful way.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Logosone

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, talahtnut said:

  There are two ways of looking at the EU membership.

One view is from the wealthy, which I suspect is your situation.

You've done well, and I respect your views.

  The second view is from the poor and working class, which is my

viewpoint, where, since 1973 food banks have increased from a

handful to over 600, child poverty is now in the millions,

homelessness is rife, job opportunities poorly paid, and zero hours

contracts for the desperate. personal and family debt at record

levels. It is for the less fortunate majority, the EU has been a disaster.

That is why they won the Brexit referendum.

The points raised are perfectly valid and you are right to a certain extent.

A large part of the UK population were led to believe that austerity was an EU ruling rather that UK government policy.

The real disaster lies a lot closer than you think.

[RuamRudy]

50 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That has been shown to be incorrect and/or not proven 

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people

The link you provided makes no suggestion that there was an error made by the researchers. It offers counter possibilities but no mention of anything being 'incorrect', and certainly nothing definitive.

 

Add to this facts such as the steady rise in infant mortality in England since 2014, contrary to that seen in most developed nations, and it surely suggests to you that there is something askew in your country?

[sandyf]

45 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Greece having the Euro as its currency rendered them unable to deevaluate its currency and ward of recession 

Absolute garbage, they lived beyond their means for decades and falsified the accounts to get into the EU.

The brexiteers always turn to Greece as stick to bash away at the EU.

One has to assume that they are in favour of inequality, the Greeks used to pay themselves the old age pension after working 30 years, now they are moaning about having to work to 60.

Just how much will Bojo level the field.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The link you provided makes no suggestion that there was an error made by the researchers. It offers counter possibilities but no mention of anything being 'incorrect', and certainly nothing definitive.

 

Add to this facts such as the steady rise in infant mortality in England since 2014, contrary to that seen in most developed nations, and it surely suggests to you that there is something askew in your country?

Lets hope the 350 Million  a week that we will soon be saving is put into Child healthcare

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Absolute garbage, they lived beyond their means for decades and falsified the accounts to get into the EU.

The brexiteers always turn to Greece as stick to bash away at the EU.

One has to assume that they are in favour of inequality, the Greeks used to pay themselves the old age pension after working 30 years, now they are moaning about having to work to 60.

Just how much will Bojo level the field.

The Greek Drachma would have devalued due to the terrible state of the Greek economy  and financial affairs , this would have helped their economy by ways of increased tourism and their exports would have been cheaper and more attractive to buyers 

   As Greek was in the Euro , their currency didnt devalue

[Logosone]

Yes the massive fall in the Pound has led to the UK economy soaring to undreamt of hights.

 

So why isn't the UK devaluing the Pound? Guess no need. The market is doing it.

[vogie]

40 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The link you provided makes no suggestion that there was an error made by the researchers. It offers counter possibilities but no mention of anything being 'incorrect', and certainly nothing definitive.

 

Add to this facts such as the steady rise in infant mortality in England since 2014, contrary to that seen in most developed nations, and it surely suggests to you that there is something askew in your country?

The child mortality rate is higher in Scotland than England, but we can't blame that on the Tories so we'll overlook that one shall we. Is there something askew in your country RR?

 

Scotland highest in UK for avoidable child deaths

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scotland-highest-in-uk-for-avoidable-child-deaths_9929.htm

 

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

The child mortality rate is higher in Scotland than England, but we can't blame that on the Tories so we'll overlook that one shall we. Is there something askew in your country RR?

 

Scotland highest in UK for avoidable child deaths

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scotland-highest-in-uk-for-avoidable-child-deaths_9929.htm

 

Deflection and obfuscation - I was referring specifically to infant mortality, not child mortality, which includes deaths due to accidents, violence and the effects of toxins in children up to the age of 19. But nonetheless, it is absolutely deplorable, I agree. However it takes nothing away from my point. 

 

Health in England 'faltering' after 10 years of austerity, warns damning Marmot review

"Life expectancy has stalled, patients are living longer in ill health and health inequality has risen after a decade of austerity that will 'cast a long shadow' over the lives of UK children, according to a devastating follow-up to the 2010 Marmot review."

 

But in answer to your final question, yes - there is something askew in my country. It's that we are forced to give all our cash to the country next door and let them decide how much to return to us. If we weren't routinely bled dry by them, we might stand a better chance to fix our own problems. 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

If you wanna see a bunch of Morgans rather than the odd one, go to the US.

 

Guess that will decline now that Morgn last year discontinued building cars with V8s.

Unwise not to offer V8s if you want market expansion for such cars in the US.

 

Rolls R also produce marine engines

and marine dynamic pos. equipment

(both pretty good stuff - but sizeable in terms of "heipennies" I don't know)

 

 

I had forgotten about the marine side. Thank you for reminding me.

 

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/defence/aerospace.aspx

 

Defence Aerospace business
With more than 16,000 military engines in service with 160 customers in 103 countries, Rolls-Royce is a powerful player in the defence aero engine market. From combat to transport, from trainers to helicopters, our engines and pioneering service solutions ensure that our customers have world-leading engine technology available, whatever the mission demands.

 

https://www.rolls-royce.com/country-sites/india/products-and-services/civil-aerospace.aspx

 

Civil Aerospace
We are a leading manufacturer and service provider of aero engines for large civil aircrafts and corporate jets worldwide, powering more than 30 types of commercial aircraft. We have over 13,000 engines in service globally with airlines, freight operators, lessors and corporates; with 50% share in the modern wide-body engines on order.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Holdings

 

Rolls-Royce Holdings plc (company number 04706930)[3] is a British multinational engineering company incorporated in February 2011 that owns Rolls-Royce, a business established in 1904 which today designs, manufactures and distributes power systems for aviation and other industries. Rolls-Royce is the world's second-largest maker of aircraft engines[4] (after General Electric)[5] and has major businesses in the marine propulsion and energy sectors.

Rolls-Royce was the world's 16th largest defence contractor in 2018 when measured by defence revenues

 

TBH I had only a vague idea of the size of Rolls-Royce holdings and I didn't realise that it was this big or this varied. There must be a huge export market world wide.

 

So much for the UK not producing very much for export.

 

I simply cannot be be bothered to reply to logoosones post as he always runs down the UK and England wherever and whenever possible.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Deflection and obfuscation - I was referring specifically to infant mortality, not child mortality, which includes deaths due to accidents, violence and the effects of toxins in children up to the age of 19. But nonetheless, it is absolutely deplorable, I agree. However it takes nothing away from my point. 

 

Health in England 'faltering' after 10 years of austerity, warns damning Marmot review

"Life expectancy has stalled, patients are living longer in ill health and health inequality has risen after a decade of austerity that will 'cast a long shadow' over the lives of UK children, according to a devastating follow-up to the 2010 Marmot review."

 

But in answer to your final question, yes - there is something askew in my country. It's that we are forced to give all our cash to the country next door and let them decide how much to return to us. If we weren't routinely bled dry by them, we might stand a better chance to fix our own problems. 

On a thread about fishing you accuse me of deflection! Perleeaase. Always somebody elses fault.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

On a thread about fishing you accuse me of deflection! Perleeaase. Always somebody elses fault.

Go back to post #586 if you want to understand the origin of the tangent. 

[talahtnut]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

You think the EU prevented Greece from prospering economically?

 

Are you high?

The Troikas losses were shifted to the Greek state and from there,

thanks to troika ideology, to the backs of the poorest in society.

Each bailout has been used to repay that odious debt, with the

rather wonderful extra from a financiers point of view of more

interest added each time, meaning an odious, unpayable,

immoral debt becomes more odious, unpayable and immoral

with each turn of the screw.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Absolute garbage, they lived beyond their means for decades and falsified the accounts to get into the EU.

The brexiteers always turn to Greece as stick to bash away at the EU.

One has to assume that they are in favour of inequality, the Greeks used to pay themselves the old age pension after working 30 years, now they are moaning about having to work to 60.

Just how much will Bojo level the field.

quote "Absolute garbage, they lived beyond their means for decades and falsified the accounts to get into the EU."

 

The Greeks must have been damned good at falsifying their accounts or the alternative is that the EU auditors were 3rd or 4th rate and the EU desperately wanted Greece in the EU and glossed over the report and failed to do due diligence. If the latter was the case the EU have only themselves to blame.

 

As an aside (and slightly off topic) looking at Greek/Turkish border over the last few days the EU looks like gaining another 2 or 3 million refugees. I have no idea how they will be accepted nor who will provide funds for them.

 

[david555]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

quote "Absolute garbage, they lived beyond their means for decades and falsified the accounts to get into the EU."

 

The Greeks must have been damned good at falsifying their accounts or the alternative is that the EU auditors were 3rd or 4th rate and the EU desperately wanted Greece in the EU and glossed over the report and failed to do due diligence. If the latter was the case the EU have only themselves to blame.

 

As an aside (and slightly off topic) looking at Greek/Turkish border over the last few days the EU looks like gaining another 2 or 3 million refugees. I have no idea how they will be accepted nor who will provide funds for them.

 

I wonder how many have U.K. in mind as end destination from those 2...3..millions ......?

 

 

 

[talahtnut]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

quote "Absolute garbage, they lived beyond their means for decades and falsified the accounts to get into the EU."

 

The Greeks must have been damned good at falsifying their accounts or the alternative is that the EU auditors were 3rd or 4th rate and the EU desperately wanted Greece in the EU and glossed over the report and failed to do due diligence. If the latter was the case the EU have only themselves to blame.

 

As an aside (and slightly off topic) looking at Greek/Turkish border over the last few days the EU looks like gaining another 2 or 3 million refugees. I have no idea how they will be accepted nor who will provide funds for them.

 

Yeah the EU is terrified of the Turks plan. When they get in, the EU

it will be case of the Turkey doing the stuffing.

[Logosone]

22 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

The Troikas losses were shifted to the Greek state and from there,

thanks to troika ideology, to the backs of the poorest in society.

Each bailout has been used to repay that odious debt, with the

rather wonderful extra from a financiers point of view of more

interest added each time, meaning an odious, unpayable,

immoral debt becomes more odious, unpayable and immoral

with each turn of the screw.

First of all the rather large problems in the Greek economy appeared long BEFORE the Troika was put in place. 

 

They were not made by the Troika, but by the Greeks themselves. Namely by people clamouring for free handouts and irresponsible politicians giving it to them. So THAT was the odious and immoral start of the Greeks' economic tragedy.

 

Obviously the Troika provided a loan and loans have to be repaid. In reality of course EVERYONE took a haircut on the actual interest they were supposed to get to help the Greeks.

 

You've been duped by a completely false narrative which one of the worst finance ministers in history Yannis Varoufakis has peddled to justify his absolutely shocking performance as finance minister.

 

Actually the Greek tragedy is a valuable lesson for Britain, who just like the Greeks, is living on the confidence that foreign creditors will continue to pay for its welfare state. The Greeks learned, to their lament, that the market will not tolerate debt accumulation indefinitely. The exact same could happen to the British, though of course they have vastly more assets so there is still room until that tragedy kicks in.

 

Greece was given  €45 billion in bail-out loans, funded courtesy of the German taxpayer, and then another 110 billion Euro. Then another 10 billion Euro. In the end Greece got 277 billion Euro in total.

 

The absolute joke here is that the leftist Greek government has declared it will now do without European aid programmes, though of course in the next few months we can count on a Greek appeal for more funds, just to keep going much as we have had the last few years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

On a thread about fishing you accuse me of deflection! Perleeaase. Always somebody elses fault.

???????????????????????????? also has the highest drug deaths in ???????? but as it had nothing whatsoever to do with ????ing I didn't bother mentioning it either.

[Logosone]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

quote "Absolute garbage, they lived beyond their means for decades and falsified the accounts to get into the EU."

 

The Greeks must have been damned good at falsifying their accounts or the alternative is that the EU auditors were 3rd or 4th rate and the EU desperately wanted Greece in the EU and glossed over the report and failed to do due diligence. If the latter was the case the EU have only themselves to blame.

 

As an aside (and slightly off topic) looking at Greek/Turkish border over the last few days the EU looks like gaining another 2 or 3 million refugees. I have no idea how they will be accepted nor who will provide funds for them.

 

 

The Greeks were terrible at falsifying accounts. They're not even smart enough to come up with that idea. It was well documented that it was Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan who came up with the idea and implemented this fraud. Did the US come up with a master plan to break up the EU by feeding it duds like Greece? Who knows, either way the Americans did the deception.

 

To blame Europe for being defrauded is like blaming a woman for being raped.

 

The thing about refugees is that they only need to be funded at the start. After the influx of Syrian refugees Germany started to see a proliferation of superb barber shops, supermarkets, eventually almost all refugees end up becoming tax payers.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Logosone

[RuamRudy]

44 minutes ago, evadgib said:

???????????????????????????? also has the highest drug deaths in ???????? but as it had nothing whatsoever to do with ????ing I didn't bother mentioning it either.

Please take it up with the person who posted the ludicrous suggestion that 'for the less fortunate majority, the EU has been a disaster". This comment has as little to do with fish as it does reality. 

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, transam said:

Where is the inequality in the UK...?

I would suggest there are EU countries that have way lower equality than the UK, that's why so many try and get into the UK...

UK is quite widely known for being quite unequal when it comes to income,

both before and after tax has been paid

and even worse when it comes to wealth.