UK orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson for coronavirus patients

[JonnyF]

An excellent move. The more ventilators the better. As they are in the process of being manufactured, nurses can be trained concurrently on how to operate them. It doesn't appear to be rocket science anyway, even home carers can do it so I'm sure a trained nurse can do it with a Doctor on call to supervise and advise.

 

https://www.myshepherdconnection.org/respiratory/ventilator

 

[faraday]

Home ventilation is used on conscious patients, their respiratory needs are different from ICU patients.

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, faraday said:

Home ventilation is used on conscious patients, their respiratory needs are different from ICU patients.

That's why the NHS will use trained nurses (advised by doctors) instead of home carers. 

[sandyf]

On 3/26/2020 at 1:37 PM, billd766 said:

Perhaps Dyson can make it at cheaper price and still be an effective piece of equipment.

I think that it is quite scandalous Bill. I am sure there are many companies in the UK that could turn their hand to this type of product, rather than a company that looks to the far east to maximise profit. Smells a bit like the old boy network.

 

Dyson vacuum cleaners and washing machines were made in Malmesbury, Wiltshire until 2002, when the company transferred vacuum cleaner production to Malaysia. There was some controversy over the reason for this move, as well as over plans to expand Dyson's factory to increase production.^[24] Trade unionists in Wiltshire claimed that the move would negatively impact the local economy through the loss of jobs.^[25][26] The following year, washing machine production was also transferred to Malaysia.^[27] This move was driven by lower production costs in Malaysia (30% less than in the UK); it resulted in the loss of 65 jobs.^[28]

 

 In January 2019 it was announced that Dyson would move its headquarters to Singapore to ramp up manufacturing for their electric vehicle, stating Asia trade will be their main focus and commenting that the company was unhappy with EU/UK bureaucratic restrictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_(company)

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

That's why the NHS will use trained nurses (advised by doctors) instead of home carers. 

That's not how it works. The nurses do not "take advice from Drs" as how to operate a ventilator. The Dr writes an order and the nurses care for the patient using their own training as how to operate the ventilator.

You make it sound like nurses are still Drs handmaidens, and requiring Drs to tell them how to do their job.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

I think that it is quite scandalous Bill. I am sure there are many companies in the UK that could turn their hand to this type of product, rather than a company that looks to the far east to maximise profit. Smells a bit like the old boy network.

 

Dyson vacuum cleaners and washing machines were made in Malmesbury, Wiltshire until 2002, when the company transferred vacuum cleaner production to Malaysia. There was some controversy over the reason for this move, as well as over plans to expand Dyson's factory to increase production.^[24] Trade unionists in Wiltshire claimed that the move would negatively impact the local economy through the loss of jobs.^[25][26] The following year, washing machine production was also transferred to Malaysia.^[27] This move was driven by lower production costs in Malaysia (30% less than in the UK); it resulted in the loss of 65 jobs.^[28]

 

 In January 2019 it was announced that Dyson would move its headquarters to Singapore to ramp up manufacturing for their electric vehicle, stating Asia trade will be their main focus and commenting that the company was unhappy with EU/UK bureaucratic restrictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_(company)

the company was unhappy with EU/UK bureaucratic restrictions.

 

I think that is the significant reason, and perhaps not the profit motive so much, but could be both. Companies exist to make a profit, not as some sort of socialist makework.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

As they are in the process of being manufactured, nurses can be trained concurrently on how to operate them. It doesn't appear to be rocket science anyway, even home carers can do it so I'm sure a trained nurse can do it with a Doctor on call to supervise and advise.

Are you aware that if they take nurses away from other areas, those areas will not function efficiently? The NHS does not have loads of nurses sitting around with nothing to do but make cups of tea for the consultants and flirt with the junior Drs, despite the impression given by tv soap operas.

Of course there are probably those that think nursing can be done by any old person off the street, and the years of training they do is not necessary.

[tso310]

The Mercedes F1 converted air breather was fast tracked for use in just a matter of days.

[faraday]

27 minutes ago, tso310 said:

The Mercedes F1 converted air breather was fast tracked for use in just a matter of days.

That will only be for hi-so people.

 

*Laugh emoji"

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Companies exist to make a profit, not as some sort of socialist makework.

If you wish to comment on my post, stick to the point, too many seem to think they can go off at a tangent.

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, tso310 said:

The Mercedes F1 converted air breather was fast tracked for use in just a matter of days.

An existing device was modified by engineers at the University College London with clinicians from UCLH and if trials are successful Mercedes F1 facilities will be used to mass produce the device.

Good example of collaboration, as could be the ventilator consortium.

It is a real pity that government did not support the manufacturing industries to the same extent in years gone bye.

[RuamRudy]

I have seen Exercise Cygnus trending on Twitter this morning - the government sponsored work done by UK medical professionals in 2014 and 2016 to model a pandemic in the UK and assess the UK's preparedness for it. It is utterly shocking that the many warning signs from these exercises were not properly taken on board by the government. 

 

Once this is over, there must be a full an thorough public inquiry into why our government has failed so very badly. From Johnson to May to Cameron and all the toadies beneath, each one must be hauled over the coals and made to fully account for their myriad failings. 

[Mr Smithy]

7 hours ago, overherebc said:

Parapac ventilator manufactured by Smiths.

£3000. Approved and works.

This is a machine intended for short term use in emergency situations. It is very limited in the functions it offers and would NOT provide adequate ventilation to a person suffering ARDS 

[Mr Smithy]

24 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Once this is over, there must be a full an thorough public inquiry into why our government has failed so very badly.

Can you name ONE western government which funded equipment, infrastructure, staffing and supplies sufficient to meet the demands of a pandemic?

[Mr Smithy]

45 minutes ago, sandyf said:

An existing device was modified by engineers at the University College London with clinicians from UCLH

It is a CPAP device which is NOT a ventilator and will NOT treat a person with ARDS

[Mr Smithy]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It doesn't appear to be rocket science anyway, even home carers can do it so

THAT is an outstandingly ignorant comment.

Open the link and inform yourself

https://www.aci.health.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/306586/Mechanical_Ventilation_Package.pdf

[RuamRudy]

37 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

Can you name ONE western government which funded equipment, infrastructure, staffing and supplies sufficient to meet the demands of a pandemic?

A race to the bottom is not my vision of preparedness. Incompetence with my neighbours is no excuse for my own incompetence.

[Mr Smithy]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

A race to the bottom is not my vision of preparedness. Incompetence with my neighbours is no excuse for my own incompetence.

Why not just admit that no country was prepared?

Its very easy to apportion blame with the benefit of hindsight -

Are there any other disaster scenarios you would like the country to be 100% prepared to deal with? 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

Why not just admit that no country was prepared?

 

I am not denying or admitting anything - I am pointing out how utterly irrelevant it is to compare our response to that of other countries in some weak attempt to ameliorate ourselves. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mr Smithy said:

Its very easy to apportion blame with the benefit of hindsight -

Are there any other disaster scenarios you would like the country to be 100% prepared to deal with? 

In 2016 the government conducted a series of exercises to determine its preparedness, and the results demonstrated that it would come up woefully short, yet none of those warnings were taken seriously. Covid-19 was identified as a global threat in December last year. Now, in March, our government having sat through Q1 with their fingers in their ears, they are now resorting to asking vacuum cleaner manufacturers and fetish clothing suppliers to help support the NHS. 

 

You may wish to cut them some slack; personally I believe they have proven themselves to be totally incapable of crisis management. 

[evadgib]

31 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not denying or admitting anything - I am pointing out how utterly irrelevant it is to compare our response to that of other countries in some weak attempt to ameliorate ourselves. 

 

In 2016 the government conducted a series of exercises to determine its preparedness, and the results demonstrated that it would come up woefully short, yet none of those warnings were taken seriously. Covid-19 was identified as a global threat in December last year. Now, in March, our government having sat through Q1 with their fingers in their ears, they are now resorting to asking vacuum cleaner manufacturers and fetish clothing suppliers to help support the NHS. 

 

You may wish to cut them some slack; personally I believe they have proven themselves to be totally incapable of crisis management. 

They've been somewhat distracted since 2016 though haven't they RR...

 

Back to this topic:

Call for businesses to help make NHS ventilators

Edited March 31, 2020 by evadgib

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Mr Smithy said:

It is a CPAP device which is NOT a ventilator and will NOT treat a person with ARDS

Show me where I said it was a ventilator.

Like many you assume people do not know what they are talking about.

My reference to the ventilator consortium was in respect of a completely different point, but probably because you were in too much of a hurry to condemn went right over your head.

 

This may be easier for you.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-f1-help-develop-coronavirus-breathing-device-for-health-service-use.6Yx9lt3ADUMLwXr7UKDfYT.html

 

and

 

https://www.ft.com/content/1125e39e-8a76-4769-b6ca-f482efca5bf5

 

are good examples of technical collaboration. got it?

[Mr Smithy]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Like many you assume people do not know what they are talking about

Mmm -  Educate yourself before accusing others. 

 

https://www.aci.health.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/306586/Mechanical_Ventilation_Package.pdf#

 

That is just for starters but likely beyond your comprehensive abilities - When you are ready I will supply the advanced package once you can answer a few simple test questions

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/31/2020 at 8:53 PM, RuamRudy said:

I have seen Exercise Cygnus trending on Twitter this morning - the government sponsored work done by UK medical professionals in 2014 and 2016 to model a pandemic in the UK and assess the UK's preparedness for it. It is utterly shocking that the many warning signs from these exercises were not properly taken on board by the government. 

 

Once this is over, there must be a full an thorough public inquiry into why our government has failed so very badly. From Johnson to May to Cameron and all the toadies beneath, each one must be hauled over the coals and made to fully account for their myriad failings. 

If one wishes to cast blame on governments for the NHS as it is, one would do well to remember how Gordon Brown wasted 6 billion quid on the NHS. It was also during the labour government time that the excellent Australian nurses were banished from the NHS in favour of cheaper nurses from a different continent.

I doubt any government has clean hands when it comes to NHS mismanagement.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If one wishes to cast blame on governments for the NHS as it is, one would do well to remember how Gordon Brown wasted 6 billion quid on the NHS. It was also during the labour government time that the excellent Australian nurses were banished from the NHS in favour of cheaper nurses from a different continent.

I doubt any government has clean hands when it comes to NHS mismanagement.

Gordon Brown has been history for the past decade. Every bit of outrage deserves to rain down on the past 10 years of the Nasty Party, who have managed the NHS with the dual mix of incompetence and naked self interest. 

 

Regardless of what Brown or Labour did or did not do, the Tories have had a decade to make the NHS stronger. The reality is stark - the NHS has suffered badly due to every single tory vote cast in the past decade.