Should I increase my pool chlorine level during the covid outbreak?

[Crossy]

Question as per the topic title.

 

We have the grandkids staying for the duration and they use the pool a lot.

 

Should I increase the chlorine level (turn up the salt water chlorinator) or leave it at the levels we usually use?

 

[Don Mega]

https://www.ihrsa.org/improve-your-club/pool-hot-tub-sauna-safety-during-covid-19/

 

A well-run, clean swimming pool with appropriately treated water using chlorine at internationally accepted levels should provide adequate disinfection to neutralise the COVID-19 virus.

Operators in most countries should ensure chlorine levels in pools and spas are kept between 1-3mg/l with the pH between 6.8-7.4. Spa pools that use bromine need to maintain their water at 4-6mg/l bromine or 3-5mg/l chlorine. Routine tests for microbiological quality should also be undertaken in line with national guidelines.

Given that the virus is a new one, experts cannot say with absolute certainty that it will be safe. However, most authorities believe that pool and spa waters that are adequately disinfected should not spread the disease. A bigger risk will be the face-to-face interaction between individual users of the pools and spas.

[Lacessit]

As long as you have free available chlorine present, it will kill viruses.

The real problem will be maintaining social distancing of grandkids, that will be like herding cats.

[cmarshall]

5 hours ago, Don Mega said:

https://www.ihrsa.org/improve-your-club/pool-hot-tub-sauna-safety-during-covid-19/

 

A well-run, clean swimming pool with appropriately treated water using chlorine at internationally accepted levels should provide adequate disinfection to neutralise the COVID-19 virus.

Operators in most countries should ensure chlorine levels in pools and spas are kept between 1-3mg/l with the pH between 6.8-7.4. Spa pools that use bromine need to maintain their water at 4-6mg/l bromine or 3-5mg/l chlorine. Routine tests for microbiological quality should also be undertaken in line with national guidelines.

Given that the virus is a new one, experts cannot say with absolute certainty that it will be safe. However, most authorities believe that pool and spa waters that are adequately disinfected should not spread the disease. A bigger risk will be the face-to-face interaction between individual users of the pools and spas.

So, you get your critical health safety information from an association of health club owners?  Really?

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, Don Mega said:

https://www.ihrsa.org/improve-your-club/pool-hot-tub-sauna-safety-during-covid-19/

 

A well-run, clean swimming pool with appropriately treated water using chlorine at internationally accepted levels should provide adequate disinfection to neutralise the COVID-19 virus.

Operators in most countries should ensure chlorine levels in pools and spas are kept between 1-3mg/l with the pH between 6.8-7.4. Spa pools that use bromine need to maintain their water at 4-6mg/l bromine or 3-5mg/l chlorine. Routine tests for microbiological quality should also be undertaken in line with national guidelines.

Given that the virus is a new one, experts cannot say with absolute certainty that it will be safe. However, most authorities believe that pool and spa waters that are adequately disinfected should not spread the disease. A bigger risk will be the face-to-face interaction between individual users of the pools and spas.

No-one adds bromine for disinfection directly. It is added as sodium bromide, which then forms hypobromite when chlorine is added. The main advantage of a bromine-based system is it is more effective at higher pH.

It is important to distinguish between total chlorine and free available chlorine. Total chlorine is the amount of chlorine required to react with various organics in the water to be treated, to form compounds such as chloramines. These compounds may or may not be effective in disinfection, whereas free available chlorine virtually guarantees it.

If coronavirus is resistant to the nascent oxygen produced by free available chlorine, it would be a first.

[Don Mega]

33 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

So, you get your critical health safety information from an association of health club owners?  Really?

Normally I take whats posted on forums by morons as gospel... sometimes I venture out and use google instead.

 

What in my post did you feel was misleading  ?

Edited March 27, 2020 by Don Mega

[cmarshall]

26 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Normally I take whats posted on forums by morons as gospel... sometimes I venture out and use google instead.

 

What in my post did you feel was misleading  ?

The source.  Show me a quote from doctors specializing in infectious diseases saying that you won't get corona from swimming in a pool and I might take it seriously.  I still wouldn't swim in the pool, however,

[amykat]

Well I saw doctors interviewed on CNN who were asked this question, they said the virus won’t travel through water so swimming was okay, but above the water, talking and touching people would be the risk.  So if these are people at your own house, who are sharing a close space already, I don’t know why the pool would be extra risk???

[Lacessit]

12 hours ago, amykat said:

Well I saw doctors interviewed on CNN who were asked this question, they said the virus won’t travel through water so swimming was okay, but above the water, talking and touching people would be the risk.  So if these are people at your own house, who are sharing a close space already, I don’t know why the pool would be extra risk???

Public pools are extra risk, due to the number of people in the pool. Viruses CAN travel through water IF the level of chlorination is inadequate.

Organic materials such as sweat, skin cells and urine deplete free available chlorine. Private pools are usually smaller in volume than a public pool, so it's a balancing act.

[atyclb]

had seen an official medical document about that and standard chloring level in pools will not transmit corona.  found it as i wanted to swim in condo pool that is empty 98% of time.  chloring has no effect on respiratory aerosolized transmission of those in pool.

 

here it is. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/water.html

 

limit corona to the corona only in your fridge.  (illustrative pic attached)

Edited March 28, 2020 by atyclb

[billsmart]

No, but you could reduce the amount of foie gras your serve them before they go swimming.

[Rimmer]

A flame and a reply have been removed

[Lacessit]

As I have said before on this thread, chlorine works because the nascent oxygen it releases oxidizes any organic material it encounters.

Chlorine has disinfected water systems containing bacteria for many decades. Public swimming pools would be a huge health risk if it were otherwise.

The average bacterium is about 1000 - 2000 nanometers in size. Even giant viruses are less than that. COVID-19 is 120 nanometers in size.

Stop worrying.

[Tropposurfer]

unless your family group is isolating as a small herd, and has been for some weeks now without symptoms then communal swimming is ill advised (govt and health group warning all over the globe).

sharing pools with anyone other than immediate cohabiting family that have been in isolation for some weeks at least is also highly risky let alone having them enter your home.

if the kids are coming and going from your home and not being strictly isolated from others then assume they and you  have the virus and practice protocols.

 

[Crossy]

@Tropposurfer excellent advice.

 

As noted in my OP, we are indeed isolating as a small herd, only I leave our 1.5 Rai compound (I still have to work, essential staff) and I practice social distancing as required by the office anyway (masks, 2m spacing, sanitser everywhere). As the only driver I'm also lumbered with doing the shopping although Madam supervises via Line!

 

Whilst only our herd use the pool I was merely wondering if upping the chlorine (crank up the chlorinator) had any value.

 

With a pool, fast internet and food the kids are happy as pigs in ...

 

[sawadee1947]

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

You are joking? 

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

You are joking? 

 

And this answers the OP how exactly?

 

[sawadee1947]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

And this answers the OP how exactly?

 

100%. Fighting corona with clorine? Then It's more tasty to eat chlorine chicken from US. ????????????????????????

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

100%. Fighting corona with clorine? Then It's more tasty to eat chlorine chicken from US. ????????????????????????

 

Soooo, so are saying that a chlorinated swimming pool does NOT deactivate covid-19?

 

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, Crossy said:

@Tropposurfer excellent advice.

 

As noted in my OP, we are indeed isolating as a small herd, only I leave our 1.5 Rai compound (I still have to work, essential staff) and I practice social distancing as required by the office anyway (masks, 2m spacing, sanitser everywhere). As the only driver I'm also lumbered with doing the shopping although Madam supervises via Line!

 

Whilst only our herd use the pool I was merely wondering if upping the chlorine (crank up the chlorinator) had any value.

 

With a pool, fast internet and food the kids are happy as pigs in ...

 

Chlorine levels are set at 1-3 mg/L free available chlorine for a reason. If you crank up the chlorine to ( say ) 10 mg/L, you are going to have eye, ear, nose and throat irritation occurring.

Unless your kids have the habit of p^^^ing in the pool, there is no need to do it.

[Just Weird]

19 hours ago, cmarshall said:

20 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Normally I take whats posted on forums by morons as gospel... sometimes I venture out and use google instead.

 

What in my post did you feel was misleading  ?

The source.  Show me a quote from doctors specializing in infectious diseases saying that you won't get corona from swimming in a pool and I might take it seriously. 

I can't see the part where he, or his source, said "you won't get corona from swimming in a pool".  Can you point out where that is then, perhaps, we might take your post seriously?

[zhorik]

if the virus cannot travel through water then explain how sars was spread through fecal plume when flushing a toilet. True , toilet water isi not chlorinated. Remember the virus is spread through the expelling of particulates from an infected person, why masks are good for an infected person but useless for non infected people unless one uses as special virus mask. the problem is likely to be outside the pool as people have said, However unless you are vunerable, a smoker, have heart condition, shortness of breath etc Covid 19 is not that deadly. (ranging form 0.1% in parts of China to 10% in Italy) mortality rates are highest only for those with poor immunity and the really old(hence Italy) . If one follows sensible hygiene rules and keeps social distance then there wold be no problem. As for pools as Doctors state it is not likely to be a problem , however there would be no point in chlorinating the water if you then share a towel after to dry yourselves.

[samtam]

As I've said in another post, (about condo pools), these links would suggest that chlorine at around 2.0 - 4.0 is ideal (table below), and follow CDC advice, (third link).

 

 

Quote

 

As far as I can gather, pool closure would only be for the social distancing aspect. According to several sources:

 

https://www.spasa.com.au/news-item/4165/coronavirus-covid-19-are-swimming-pools-safe

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/askst-is-it-possible-to-contract-the-coronavirus-from-swimming

 

https://www.swimmingpool.com/coronavirus/

 

https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/cross-training/a31472426/coronavirus-is-it-safe-to-go-swimming/

 

 

 

Water Chemistry Guidelines

These commonly accepted chemical parameters do not supersede local or state codes and regulations

Parameter	Min	Ideal	Max	Pool Type
Free Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	1.0	2.0 - 4.0	5.0	Pools, Waterparks
Free Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	2.0	3.0 - 5.0	10.0	Spas
Combined Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	0	0	0.4	Pools, Waterparks
Combined Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	0	0	0.5	Spas
Total Bromine (ppm or mg/L)	2.0	4.0 - 6.0	10.0	All Types
PHMB (ppm or mg/L)	30	30 - 50	50	All Types
ph	7.2	7.4 - 7.6	7.8	All Types
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 (ppm or mg/L)	60	80 - 100* 100 - 120**	180	All Types
Total Dissolved Solids (ppm or mg/L)	NA	NA	1500 over start-up	All Types
Calcium Hardness as CaCO3 (ppm or mg/L)	150	200 - 400	1,000	Pools, Waterparks
Calcium Hardness as CaCO3 (ppm or mg/L)	100	150 - 250	800	Spas
Heavy Metals (ppm or mg/L)	None	None	None	All Types
Visible Algae	None	None	None	All Types
Bacteria	None	None	Local Code	All Types
Cyanuric Acid (ppm or mg/L)	****	30 - 50	****	All Types
Temperature °F/°C	78°F (25.5°C)	80.5°F (26.9°C)	82°F (27.8°C)	Competition Pools
Temperature °F/°C	-	-	104°F	Spas
Temperature °F/°C	-	Personal Preference	104°F	Other Pools
Ozone (ppm or mg/L)	-	-	0.1 over 8-hr. time wtd. avg.	All Types
ORP	Calibrate to Disinfectant Level ****	Calibrate to Disinfectant Level ****	Calibrate to Disinfectant Level ****	All Types

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, zhorik said:

if the virus cannot travel through water then explain how sars was spread through fecal plume when flushing a toilet. True , toilet water isi not chlorinated. Remember the virus is spread through the expelling of particulates from an infected person, why masks are good for an infected person but useless for non infected people unless one uses as special virus mask. the problem is likely to be outside the pool as people have said, However unless you are vunerable, a smoker, have heart condition, shortness of breath etc Covid 19 is not that deadly. (ranging form 0.1% in parts of China to 10% in Italy) mortality rates are highest only for those with poor immunity and the really old(hence Italy) . If one follows sensible hygiene rules and keeps social distance then there wold be no problem. As for pools as Doctors state it is not likely to be a problem , however there would be no point in chlorinating the water if you then share a towel after to dry yourselves.

When you flush a toilet, the water splashing in the bowl has been shown to project very fine water droplets up to 2 metres outside the bowl, which is why I have developed the habit of closing the toilet lid before I flush # 2. I read that somewhere, possibly you can find it on Google.

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

Soooo, so are saying that a chlorinated swimming pool does NOT deactivate covid-19?

 

Of course not unless you put in more chlorine than water ????????????

[Crossy]

Just now, sawadee1947 said:

Of course not unless you put in more chlorine than water ????????????

 

And you have a reference link for this assertion?

 

[Bagwain]

If you feel safe with higher levels of Cl then turn the machine up to produce more or run longer. Piece of mind! However make sure that the timer runs to after dark. This is when most the kill happens - over night of the pathogen that may be present. Be prepared for some itchy skin & you will need to use more acid which in turn will make the Cl stonger.

 

Trouble with C/19 is it is only 5 microns wide & although big for a virus it is too small for the filter to take out given a sand as your medium in the filter! Do a "Super Chlorinate" & I believe given what you have said - should be OK. 

 

Virus are suseptable to Cl how ever Crptosporidium which is basically an egg is a different matter. This comes from Duck, pidgeons, birds and your feet on the grass. Totally a differnt matter!

 

Don't fret & enjoy swimming!

Edited March 28, 2020 by Bagwain

[Bagwain]

55 minutes ago, samtam said:

As I've said in another post, (about condo pools), these links would suggest that chlorine at around 2.0 - 4.0 is ideal (table below), and follow CDC advice, (third link).

 

 

 

 

 

Water Chemistry Guidelines

These commonly accepted chemical parameters do not supersede local or state codes and regulations

Parameter	Min	Ideal	Max	Pool Type
Free Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	1.0	2.0 - 4.0	5.0	Pools, Waterparks
Free Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	2.0	3.0 - 5.0	10.0	Spas
Combined Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	0	0	0.4	Pools, Waterparks
Combined Chlorine (ppm or mg/L)	0	0	0.5	Spas
Total Bromine (ppm or mg/L)	2.0	4.0 - 6.0	10.0	All Types
PHMB (ppm or mg/L)	30	30 - 50	50	All Types
ph	7.2	7.4 - 7.6	7.8	All Types
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 (ppm or mg/L)	60	80 - 100* 100 - 120**	180	All Types
Total Dissolved Solids (ppm or mg/L)	NA	NA	1500 over start-up	All Types
Calcium Hardness as CaCO3 (ppm or mg/L)	150	200 - 400	1,000	Pools, Waterparks
Calcium Hardness as CaCO3 (ppm or mg/L)	100	150 - 250	800	Spas
Heavy Metals (ppm or mg/L)	None	None	None	All Types
Visible Algae	None	None	None	All Types
Bacteria	None	None	Local Code	All Types
Cyanuric Acid (ppm or mg/L)	****	30 - 50	****	All Types
Temperature °F/°C	78°F (25.5°C)	80.5°F (26.9°C)	82°F (27.8°C)	Competition Pools
Temperature °F/°C	-	-	104°F	Spas
Temperature °F/°C	-	Personal Preference	104°F	Other Pools
Ozone (ppm or mg/L)	-	-	0.1 over 8-hr. time wtd. avg.	All Types
ORP	Calibrate to Disinfectant Level ****	Calibrate to Disinfectant Level ****	Calibrate to Disinfectant Level ****	All Types

How old is this? Heavy metals? What do ionisers put into the water? They are frownd upon by the health dept in Australia because when you do a backwash, what goes back int o the environment? Not rocket science!! 

[sawadee1947]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

And you have a reference link for this assertion?

 

https://swimswam.com/whats-known-about-chlorines-impact-on-coronavirus/

[Crossy]

From the page linked above:-

 

Quote

Quote

A point of positivity from a swimmer’s perspective at least is that Ireland’s Health Service Executive, essentially the equivalent of the Department of Health & Human Services in the United States, confirms that coronavirus cannot be transmitted in drinking water and swimming pools, provided these mediums are properly chlorinated.

 

 

So if I run my private pool at 4 mg/l (it's currently about 2) then we will be at no higher risk than if we don't swim.