Time to sue China?

[Logosone]

50 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

did they really?  china exports to the usa amounted to about 10% of total exports before the trade war began.  not sure what it was down to later.

 

after the inconclusive trade war, and the virus disruptions, no telling what trade will look like in the future.  they certainly won't be buying $40 billion in gmo soy this year or next.

 

will trump add tariffs now, cause china isn't buying soy now?  will china respond by adding export tariffs to the usa on masks and ventilators and pharmaceuticals - or prohibiting export of those products altogether for national security reasons?

Excellent questions. 10% of a large number is a very a large amount.

 

I agree they probably won't buy the soy and will argue that given the gdp contraction that is not feasible, there is actually a clause that allows them to argue that.

 

I don't think Trump would slap on tariffs, because he would understand that the original figure is not feasible now. He will try to make a deal for a smaller but still significant figure.

 

In terms of ventilators, masks, etc every country will ensure those are produced at home and export is restricted and controlled. Everyone is annoyed with America's tactics of monopolizing masks, ventilators etc.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Chinese is already producing cars that are better than many Toyotas:

 

https://www.hotcars.com/10-surprisingly-awesome-cars-from-china-and-10-that-are-not-good/

 

It is just question of time until market acceptance and awareness, mass production etc allow Chinese car manufacturers to compete.

 

China's not a long way behind Japan and Korea at all, of course the latter still have a knowledge advantage for now. However, so did Sony in the 1980s, and then Samsung came along.

 

In fact many Huawei products outclass Japanese or Korean products quite clearly. 

Stone the crows, none of these fabulous brands you are touting have any track record whatsoever for after-sales service, reliability or longevity. You are talking as if those attributes can appear overnight.

How many years do you think it took the Japanese to convince the American auto market their products were better? There's your answer.

There's a fair amount of push-back on Huawei products, due to their perceived political ties.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, monkfish said:

Yea your right I have no idea what you are talking about because we can't do industrie in the west.
During the second world war in the UK Women made War planes and Tanks but yes sure the west has no idea about industry and infrastructure.

See, like I said you just do not know. Try looking at BHP Steel, Koppers, Commonwealth Steel, State Dockyard, Lysaghts, which all closed down in Australia because it was cheaper to supply China with the raw materials and then import the steel back to Australia. It would take 100 years to reclaim the land and rebuild all those industries to the same as they were before they were closed. Yes and women in Australia did the same thing from the products that were made in the above industries. Like I said you have got no knowledge of what it would take.

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, Logosone said:

High tariffs on foreign produced products would mean US companies can not compete with other manufacturers.

 

If US companies were prevented from using standard tactics like producing in low cost economies, that would still be available to other countries without those rules, then it would basically mean the death of US companies in the international market as they would be outsold by companies that can produce more cheaply. Less profit abroad would mean less innovation, poorer quality products, how does that benefit anyone?

 

But how would you stop companies from selling their products in China?

There are ways around that, regarding products for export which incorporate some imported materials; these may not face the same tariffs on those foreign-inputs.  But even that is an unnecessary capitulation for the USA, where everything can be produced in-country, with the exception of tropical plants, and a few rare-earths**.  Lithium is another one - but can work with Brazil on that one.

 

** (most rare-earths ARE available in the USA, but production was stopped when the Chinese govt subsidized production below-cost and w/o environmental regulations)

[simple1]

China still is the primary source for Covid related material and chemicals supply for the likes of the US and one would assume other countries. As an example, In the bigger picture,  China currently supplies USA with much of its medical requirements.

 

"If China shut the door on exports of medicines and their key ingredients and raw material, U.S. hospitals and military hospitals and clinics would cease to function within months, if not days," said Rosemary Gibson, author of a book on the subject, "China Rx."

 

Would it not be a strategic error at this stage to antagonise China as trump found out with his tariffs costing the US economy billions of dollars - trump supporters no need to jump down my throat - as the first tariff resolution agreement has yet to be proven as advantageous to the US, plus the core issues are yet to be unresolved.

 

As others have mentioned by what mechanism would a Court enforce a win if financial damages were awarded against China.

[ravip]

4 minutes ago, Enzian said:

Some people will care, and some won't. For a long time most (myself included) have taken the attitude implied in your question, but it is possible that might change. It makes a statement, like spending more for an electric car. But I tend to agree that there is realistically in sight no form of direct retaliation that will satisfy those of us who are enraged by this whole mess. But it is a process, and I will watch for something to emerge. 

Definitely it will take a lot of time. Who would want to pay 05x - 10x more? For example, a laptop or a mobile phone?

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Stone the crows, none of these fabulous brands you are touting have any track record whatsoever for after-sales service, reliability or longevity. You are talking as if those attributes can appear overnight.

How many years do you think it took the Japanese to convince the American auto market their products were better? There's your answer.

There's a fair amount of push-back on Huawei products, due to their perceived political ties.

The problem with China is that it can not be defeated.

 

Yes, there is push-back by some on Huawei products, I would suggest more because the US don't like the competition. 

 

Remember, competition is what killed Britain, or rather demoted it from top spot to 'also-ran'.

 

However, even if Huawei were tomorrow banned from most world markets, it would still continue to be a major company because China is such a huge market.

 

So in terms of competing I don't see how the US, Europe or anyone else can prevent Chinese companies from rising to the top. It's just not possible.

 

Yes, granted, in the auto-industry, depsite making great cars, the Chinese still have to establish longevity and track records, service records, but surely that will come?

[ChouDoufu]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Please let me know when you will be buying an MG in preference to a Toyota, because I want to see how you get on with your warranty claim.

China is a long way behind the Japanese and Koreans in quality terms, just ask any Thai trying to sell the TCL brand.

that reminds me of a movie.....the fly.  (the 1958 original, not the remake)

 

at one point, the professor wants to show his lovely assistant his new molecular transporter device.  he uses a ceramic cup as a test subject.  unfortunately the machine is defective, and the cup is damaged.  they turn the cup over to read "made in japan" printed on the bottom.  they both have a chuckle ...hahahahha!... because in 1958 japan was known for producing .......cheap carp.

 

just ask my dad who drove a carpy '75 datsun b210!  japan has since moved up the value chain, just as china is attempting to do.

 

you probably won't see china exporting shiploads of cheap carp after this is all over, except possibly to afrika.  instead they'll be building factories in chinese controlled industrial parks in nigeria for that, as they do in vietnam now.  in-country production will be high-value products - computers, cellphones, 5G routers and base stations, automobiles, high-speed rail, and narrow-body jets. 

 

china is set to be the world's largest civil aviation market. once the surplus in aircraft is bought down, they will supply their own market, as well as a certain middle eastern country whose restrictions on buying aircraft end this october, i believe, and who can pay in cheap oil.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

See, like I said you just do not know. Try looking at BHP Steel, Koppers, Commonwealth Steel, State Dockyard, Lysaghts, which all closed down in Australia because it was cheaper to supply China with the raw materials and then import the steel back to Australia. It would take 100 years to reclaim the land and rebuild all those industries to the same as they were before they were closed. Yes and women in Australia did the same thing from the products that were made in the above industries. Like I said you have got no knowledge of what it would take.

BHP Steel is not closed down, it has been spun out into entities such as OneSteel and Bluescope. Last time I looked, BSL was quoted on the ASX at $9.50 odd per share. Subsidiaries in NZ, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia. Even a distributor in Chiang Rai. Perhaps you do not know either.

[Logosone]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

There are ways around that, regarding products for export which incorporate some imported materials; these may not face the same tariffs on those foreign-inputs.  But even that is an unnecessary capitulation for the USA, where everything can be produced in-country, with the exception of tropical plants, and a few rare-earths**.  Lithium is another one - but can work with Brazil on that one.

 

** (most rare-earths ARE available in the USA, but production was stopped when the Chinese govt subsidized production below-cost and w/o environmental regulations)

You don't think if US companies can not produce their products in low cost economies they would lose market share, profits and quality?

 

 

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

BHP Steel is not closed down, it has been spun out into entities such as OneSteel and Bluescope. Last time I looked, BSL was quoted on the ASX at $9.50 odd per share. Subsidiaries in NZ, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia. Even a distributor in Chiang Rai. Perhaps you do not know either.

Perhaps you should go and look at Newcastle and see that the manufacturing of steel has stopped and that the steel is imported from China. Instead of trying to incite your filthy violence towards China because it is people like you who caused a friend of mine to get stabbed in Melbourne because he looked Chinese when in fact he comes from Kalasin, he is Thai. So perhaps you need to check your facts.

[UbonThani]

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Where is your proof. Stop causing problems for the everyday asian because they look like they might be Chinese which has happened in America and Australia. All you are doing on this thread is inciting violence against any Chinese looking Asian.

7 weeks of cover ups

Public knowledge

 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck

 

Nothing to do with random Asians.

 

Shame on you for playing the lowest card in the deck.

[UbonThani]

10 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

because it is people like you who caused a friend of mine to get stabbed in Melbourne b

Shame on you for such false claims. Disgraceful.

[UbonThani]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Looking at the thread this wonderful quote comes to my mind (sorry, I don't know who said it first):

 

There are always easy solutions to complex problems - and most of the time they are wrong.

Silly nonsense. Most things are simple. Politicians complicate things cause they are liars invested in self interest.

[Brewster67]

1 hour ago, monkfish said:

Up to the Chinese maybe they are happy to just work with Russians and Iranians and some other asian countries but if they want to continue working with the west some cooperation will be required.

The Chinese don't need to do diddly squat mate... it is the west that come to the Chinese for the stuff they make. Let's say Trump orders an immediate embargo on everything made in china, the US economy would collapse, millions of businesses would be left in the crapper and what would it mean to the Chinese?... A 1.8% drop in their manufacturing output.

[Thian]

5 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

No need to sue them. Simply move all foreign manufacturing out and withdraw all foreign investment. Isolate them and live without access to their market. Engaging China is simply not worth it in the end. 

And boycot all companies they bought in the west, just start new companies in the same branch and tell all westerners to go there.

[UbonThani]

57 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

China is a long way behind the Japanese and Koreans in quality terms, just ask any

So true. Koreans are killing it with cars on a budget. Cute women as well. No bs and not liars like Chinese.

[Brewster67]

3 minutes ago, Thian said:

And boycot all companies they bought in the west, just start new companies in the same branch and tell all westerners to go there.

You are living in lala land.

 

Western governments have been begging the Chinese for inward investment for decades, if all Chinese owned companies in the west were shut down tomorrow by the chinese it would lead to hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

Perhaps you should go and look at Newcastle and see that the manufacturing of steel has stopped and that the steel is imported from China. Instead of trying to incite your filthy violence towards China because it is people like you who caused a friend of mine to get stabbed in Melbourne because he looked Chinese when in fact he comes from Kalasin, he is Thai. So perhaps you need to check your facts.

Steelmaking moved from Newcastle to Port Kembla 20 years ago. Newcastle has since re-invented itself with tourism. The Port Kembla steel plant has a capacity of 2.6 million tonnes per annum. Steel is imported from China, Korea and Japan. Australian steel is exported to the US and Asia. It's a merry-go-round. Perhaps you could tell me what facts I need to check.

My Thai GF gets mistaken for a Filipino anywhere outside Thailand. Blaming me for something that happened to a friend of yours over 8000 miles away from where I live is a bit unbalanced.

I am not inciting violence towards China, I am suggesting the CCP should pay for the damage caused to many countries by their negligence. If you want to take an opposing viewpoint, fine, but attacking me personally suggests you've lost the plot.

[Brewster67]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Steelmaking moved from Newcastle to Port Kembla 20 years ago. Newcastle has since re-invented itself with tourism. The Port Kembla steel plant has a capacity of 2.6 million tonnes per annum. Steel is imported from China, Korea and Japan. Australian steel is exported to the US and Asia. It's a merry-go-round. Perhaps you could tell me what facts I need to check.

My Thai GF gets mistaken for a Filipino anywhere outside Thailand. Blaming me for something that happened to a friend of yours over 8000 miles away from where I live is a bit unbalanced.

I am not inciting violence towards China, I am suggesting the CCP should pay for the damage caused to many countries by their negligence. If you want to take an opposing viewpoint, fine, but attacking me personally suggests you've lost the plot.

There are plenty of countries that should be dragged into court for reparations, hell if the US were dragged into court it would bankrupt the country overnight.

 

please stop being selective as to who needs to be dragged into court and who doesn't.

 

Get Germany, Japan, te UK and the USA in court first, THEN you can consider putting china into it.

[Aspaltso]

No doubt they should be made to pay in some capacity. They've brought the world's economy to a standstill, yet they complain about it being called the Chinese virus because its "racist". They shouldn't be given any leniency.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, ravip said:

Whats your suggestion. Or the slave masters are OK to go on with their trade?

What are you on about.

 

I didn't in any way suggest 'the slave masters are OK to go on with their trade'. Nor would I even suggest anything like this.

[White Christmas13]

6 hours ago, 2long said:

I still reckon the US started it.

They might not started it but they are very much responsible to spread it all

over the world for reacting to slow, most cases in Australia are from 

travelers who visited the US.

[gearbox]

5 hours ago, Logosone said:

Coronavirus has caused massive damage to economies worldwide. That's a no-brainer. It is also evident China and its ruling Communist party covered up the outbreak, and punished medical staff who sought to raise the alarm. This has appeared in an Australian newspaper: What do you think?

 

Lol, I think you'd have a hard time collecting judgment...you know because China is a nuclear power and could destroy Australia and the planet many times over....

 

That's if you were able to get a judgement. You'd have to prove duty, breach and causation.

 

What duty has China breached? The duty not to cause economic damage to western countries would be a new one.

 

That's just the legal side. Then of course Australia's main trading partner is China. Who'd pay for Australia's resources?

 

You're China's little helper. Without China the Australian economy would go bankrupt before China every does.

 

 

You sound too logical. It doesn't matter how the virus got in, the warmongers are trying to set up the world on fire. That's what they do the best. Look at the Iraq's arsenal of WMD. How is that lawsuit going?

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Brewster67 said:

There are plenty of countries that should be dragged into court for reparations, hell if the US were dragged into court it would bankrupt the country overnight.

 

please stop being selective as to who needs to be dragged into court and who doesn't.

 

Get Germany, Japan, te UK and the USA in court first, THEN you can consider putting china into it.

Perhaps you are missing the point. Individual actions by the countries you nominate don't affect every other country. The Holodomor in the Ukraine went unremarked by Europe and America, even though it killed more people than the Holocaust in World War II. And the Germans did pay out a lot in reparations.

 

There is not a single country in the world this time around that is unaffected by COVID-19. That's the difference.

[UbonThani]

4 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

They might not started it but they are very much responsible to spread it all

over the world for reacting to slow, most cases in Australia are from 

travelers who visited the US.

Blame Morrison for acting slow. He could have banned cruise ships by March 5. Quarantined flights as well.

 

Morrison copied NZ.

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

China helped the world by:

 

1) detecing that it was a coronavirus in the first place

 

2) Analysing the genome and publishing it so that countries around the world could produce test kits

 

All this was done pretty quickly. A lot quicker than the slow western governments responded to the crisis.

 

That was far more negligent.

 

The Chinese were surprised, ambushed by the virus. The Western governments watched and could have taken lessons from what happened in China. Instead they did nothing until it was too late.

 

If anybody should be sued it is Western governments, Merkel, Boris Johnson etc.

 

They're the ones that were negligent.

same (quick hiding/misleading the world) reaction like they did with SARS

[mehrdad]

World must boycott china ! Yes i agree for heavy fines for china. Because many time virus out from this country and this time cause shutdown world ,,

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

In which court would the matter be heard?

China is not part of the International Court of Justice, 

The Court of Public Opinion has no sway

No National Court ie the US SUpreme Court can impose any penalty and extract reparation

 

 

WTO tariff for creating barriers to global trade by being a holes?

[Kinnock]

42 minutes ago, Brewster67 said:

...... the US economy would collapse, millions of businesses would be left in the crapper and what would it mean to the Chinese?... A 1.8% drop in their manufacturing output.

That's already happening.  So how about we rebuild the global economy, without China.