Smart Dimmer

[bartpix]

I'm living in an older Thai house where the buried wiring is mostly just 2 wires. I bought this smart dimmer as in photo and along with live and neutral, it has a load connection. My query is how this should be wired with only a live and neutral in the socket connecting the older dimmer. I added the red sleeve to the live wire as you can see the same colour yellow cable was used. Hopefully one of you guys can suggest info / diagram.

[sometimewoodworker]

11 minutes ago, bartpix said:

I'm living in an older Thai house where the buried wiring is mostly just 2 wires. I bought this smart dimmer as in photo and along with live and neutral, it has a load connection. My query is how this should be wired with only a live and neutral in the socket connecting the older dimmer. I added the red sleeve to the live wire as you can see the same colour yellow cable was used. Hopefully one of you guys can suggest info / diagram.

Are you sure you have line and neutral?

 

Very few installations have a neutral in the switch box it is (or should be) line in, switched line out. Quite often (being Thailand) it is neutral out/in, switched neutral in/out.

 

We do have one switch box that has neutral as I insisted that it be installed. We use it for a dimmer switch.

 

Using the same colour wire in lighting switch boxes is usual as the are normally both line (neutral if the system is wired badly)

 

you will probably be unable to use your new dimmer.

Edited April 20, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[RichCor]

^^^^^^ Yep.  The OP will probably need to install that module at the light source, where the real LIVE/ NEUTRAL and Appliance LOAD will be found.

[taninthai]

Agree with sometimewoodworker you have got live in live out ,no neutral cannot use your new smart dimmer,if them cables move one will go up to the light fitting ,you could attach 2 new cables onto it and pull them up to the light fitting and connect one into the neutral.

also looks like there is some other cables passing through box ,some off them taped up,whole thing looks like a bodge look at the back box it’s not even a complete back box....lol

Edited April 20, 2020 by taninthai

[sometimewoodworker]

6 minutes ago, taninthai said:

Agree with sometimewoodworker you have got live in live out ,no neutral cannot use your new smart dimmer

Actually if you look carefully there maybe a neutral cable hiding in the back left hand side. Though it could also be impossible to access it. It is the white cable.

 

That is one really messed up wall box, it’s even impressive by Thai standards

Edited April 20, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Metropolitian]

First things first, check that the yellow wire is indeed a live wire. Sometimes it is switched on the neutral wire and the live wire always 'active' at the light bulb which is wrong but works.

 

If yellow are the live wire:

For the third wire, the neutral, it is there (!) if you look good in the picture just at the left in the back you see it running to the outlet beneath the switch.

Open the other socket and check for the white wire, make a bypass for the neutral (if it is the neutral wire) for the smart switch and you are done.

 

 

[Metropolitian]

You can see the white wire there... it could be going to the switch arrangement below it.

 

[Metropolitian]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Actually if you look carefully there maybe a neutral cable hiding in the back left hand side. Though it could also be impossible to access it. It is the white cable.

You beated me to it on a few milliseconds ????
But unaccesible I wouldn't say that too fast unless checked in the other box.

[sometimewoodworker]

7 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

You can see the white wire there... it could be going to the switch arrangement below it.

 

There are also a red and black just to add I little more Interest and possible confusion.

 

a better lit picture from a lower viewpoint just may make things more clear

Edited April 20, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Metropolitian]

Who agree with this?

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Another point is that the existing dimmer defiantly does not use a neutral feed (assuming correct wiring)

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Who agree with this?

 

The left had side looks a little like one of the kids locked down got at the food colouring and pasta ???? 

 

but jokes aside and that almost no Thai lighting has an Earth, it looks about right.

[Metropolitian]

7 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are also a red and black just to add I little more Interest and possible confusion

Absolutely and it wouldn't be unthinkable that for the other switches below for each of them an different color was used, eg. black green and white.

We only would know if in the middle of the box below is an switch too and not an power outlet, maybe there is more below.

 

To the OP, can you take a picture from inside the box below?  I get the feeling that the red wire is jumped to three switches and from each switch a different color runs to the lights.

[sometimewoodworker]

9 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Absolutely and it wouldn't be unthinkable that for the other switches below for each of them an different color was used, eg. black green and white.

I use red, blue and yellow, line feeds in my living room so it was easy to wire the 3 separate sets of lights to give dimmer-less lighting  control over the 50 9W LEDs in the indirect pelmet lighting  we have 

Edited April 20, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Metropolitian]

If the situation is like this, then unfortunately no neutral (or live if reversed) available and the smartswitch can't be used.

 

If, he is very lucky and it is like this, then YES! It is possible.

[Metropolitian]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I use red, blue and yellow, line feeds in my living room so it was easy to wire the 3 separate sets of lights to give dimmer-less lighting  control over the 50 9W LEDs in the indirect pelmet lighting  we have 

Nothing wrong.. you didn't use white / grey cable on purpose isn't ?
It is very hard to see, but it looks like that there is a blue wire.. very very faint in the background shadow.

 

In my 'standard' that is 'enforced' in my home it is Brown for live and Blue for Neutral and Black for switching wire.

Here mostly by lack for the Brown wire I try to keep the Red as live and White as Neutral (pretty much the standard) but then I use the black only as switching wire and Yellow for separate loads like the socket in the kitchen.

I avoid using Blue as switching wire when i use Red.

[RichCor]

In imaging editing software I see:

 

Black [to Switch #1]

White [to Switch #1]

 

along with:

Red [commoned] from Switch#1 (LIVE or NEUTRAL, direct or switched)

Yellow [variable in-line adjustment device]

Blue

Green [can we assume this is supposed to be an earth-ground??]

 

If I didn't know better I'd assume this was going to a lighted FAN.

Was the variable device for the Light or the Fan speed control?

[Metropolitian]

1 hour ago, Metropolitian said:

 

I drawed the red sleeve on the wrong yellow wire <facepalming> 
 

Waiting for the OP for clearer photos of the situation.

 

Nothing is lost, there is still an option which involving sacrificing a switch and at two lights connecting them together if one of them has the white wire as switch wire the neutral then can be bypassed.

[bartpix]

Many thanks guys for the suggestions. Here is a photo of the socket just below the dimmer and the is an ac socket straight down the wall at skirting height. In case it's not clear in the photo, the white cable is joined and wrapped with electrical tape.

[RichCor]

OK, not exactly what "I" was expecting.

 

@bartpix, can you retake take a photo of the 'top' enclosure wiring with better lighting of the wiring inside, and also the lower PlugPoint "down the wall at skirting height".  Probably a good idea to see what ALL the wiring is doing.

[taninthai]

Well that green cable has confused things????????????...is that just 2 plug sockets

Edited April 20, 2020 by taninthai

[RichCor]

1 minute ago, taninthai said:

Well that green cable has confused things????????????...is that just 2 plug sockets

2 switch points.

...and where is the YELLOW wire. I'm assuming it gets converted from one of the BLUE wires on Switch #2.

 

I love electrical puzzles. (Not)

[taninthai]

3 minutes ago, RichCor said:

2 switch points.

...and where is the YELLOW wire. I'm assuming it gets converted from one of the BLUE wires on Switch #2.

 

I love electrical puzzles. (Not)

If that’s 2 switches the white has gotta be a neutral,,,,,the more you look at Thai wiring the more baffled you get ......there is just no logic or anything in uniform.

[Metropolitian]

18 minutes ago, bartpix said:

Many thanks guys for the suggestions. Here is a photo of the socket just below the dimmer and the is an ac socket straight down the wall at skirting height. In case it's not clear in the photo, the white cable is joined and wrapped with electrical tape.

Hooray ! ????  And congrats you DO have a neutral here and that's the white wire.
Look for a short wire (preferably white) and connect it with the two white wires and with the smart switch.

 

Follow the picture as I posted before.

[Metropolitian]

23 minutes ago, bartpix said:

the white cable is joined and wrapped with electrical tape.

As it is going down below to the AC socket together with a red wire (and perhaps a black too..)

[RichCor]

I'm assuming, and a pic of the powerpoint should reveal, that:

 

White is NEUTRAL

Black is LIVE

RED is LIVE (commoned)

 

Blue is a SWITCHED LIVE

Yellow is connected to the other Blue so is a parallel SWITCHED LIVE

Green is a second SWITCHED LIVE

[Metropolitian]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are also a red and black just to add I little more Interest and possible confusion.

I get the feeling that the black is used as earth at his power socket which sits more lower on the wall.

We don't know for sure till confirmed, it is that my left knee itch and that only happen when I think I am sure about something.

Was it my right knee...

[sometimewoodworker]

45 minutes ago, bartpix said:

Many thanks guys for the suggestions. Here is a photo of the socket just below the dimmer and the is an ac socket straight down the wall at skirting height. In case it's not clear in the photo, the white cable is joined and wrapped with electrical tape.

Your installer seems to have hated the wall boxes, or couldn’t be bothered to make the recesses the correct size. He also liked to make things interesting with colour, so the green is???

Edited April 20, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Metropolitian said:

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I use red, blue and yellow, line feeds in my living room so it was easy to wire the 3 separate sets of lights to give dimmer-less lighting  control over the 50 9W LEDs in the indirect pelmet lighting  we have 

Nothing wrong.. you didn't use white / grey cable on purpose isn't ?

The white is neutral in all the lighting wiring, probably in the rest of the house though I don’t remember looking.

[bartpix]

Best shot of twin socket at skirting board as not enough leeway on cables.