RIP Pattaya

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, crobe said:

I can remember the time in the UK where people used to make fun of the Japanese tourists, going round in a big group "clickety-click" snapping photos of all the tourists sites.

 

The Japanese now - especially the golf tour groups - are the highest spending tourists in Thailand - closely followed by the South Koreans.

 

Does your average Chinese earn as much as your average Japanese or Korean tourists, and what about the purchasing power of the different currencies?

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

    One of the biggest tourist myths is the so-called 'zero baht tourist'--mentioned once again by a clueless poster.  You only need to look around Pattaya right now to see glaring proof of how utterly ridiculous the notion is that Chinese tour groups--or any others--contribute nothing to the local economy.   I suspect there are quite a few local businesses--and unemployed local workers--who will welcome the return of these tourists.  

If it's such a myth, why were there crackdowns on it? 

 

Why were there news articles written about it? 

 

Why were Chinese companies with Thai nominees raided?

 

Why were assets seized and auctioned off?

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/bargains-offered-at-amlo-chinese-tour-company-seized-assets-sell-off-58961.php

 

"The items up for auction, including 33 boats and 57 buses"

 

It's all a myth.  It's not true.  It's fake news.  It never happened.   ????

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Kennycrossfit said:

Most have only been to Pattaya and Bkk

The more widely traveled ones will proudly say they have also been to a village in Issan, and wear it like a badge of honor.  ????

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, crobe said:

I can remember the time in the UK where people used to make fun of the Japanese tourists, going round in a big group "clickety-click" snapping photos of all the tourists sites.

 

The Japanese now - especially the golf tour groups - are the highest spending tourists in Thailand - closely followed by the South Koreans.

 

And where do,es the money from these" high spending tourists" end up?back in the local economy or into Japanese tour agents back pockets then out the country?

[pineapple01]

I hope it doesn't fail I get my Mint Sauce sent from there.

[crobe]

5 minutes ago, kingdong said:

And where do,es the money from these" high spending tourists" end up?back in the local economy or into Japanese tour agents back pockets then out the country?

Obviously a lot goes to the golf courses, to the Karoake bars and to the higher end hotels such as the Dusit Thani.

They may be a "tour party" but that does not mean that it is all-inclusive - there is plenty of free time and money spent locally.

The point is that many countries start of with "all-inclusive tour parties", Thomas Cook was founded on that very premise and a lot of the tourists from the UK first ventured abroad on such tour packages - which built up resorts like Benidorm, or the yanks to the caribbean. But as the tourists got more adventurous they went for their own independent travel.

It is a little ironic for a brit sex-tourist such as Leaver to try to look down on the chinese tour parties.

  

[HashBrownHarry]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

Thailand, possibly, South East Asia, I doubt it. 

 

How many on TV, and the people you meet, sing the praises of Thailand, and when asked, "Where else have you been in South East Asia?"  Many answer, "I've only been to Thailand."  FAIL!!!!

I don't doubt it but i'm not getting into a p!ssing match about it.

 

What's your point if people have only been to Thailand, so what?

[HashBrownHarry]

23 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The more widely traveled ones will proudly say they have also been to a village in Issan, and wear it like a badge of honor.  ????

Why do you only mention Isaan, is that your only experience outside Pattaya?

 

 

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, crobe said:

Obviously a lot goes to the golf courses, to the Karoake bars and to the higher end hotels such as the Dusit Thani.

They may be a "tour party" but that does not mean that it is all-inclusive - there is plenty of free time and money spent locally.

The point is that many countries start of with "all-inclusive tour parties", Thomas Cook was founded on that very premise and a lot of the tourists from the UK first ventured abroad on such tour packages - which built up resorts like Benidorm, or the yanks to the caribbean. But as the tourists got more adventurous they went for their own independent travel.

It is a little ironic for a brit sex-tourist such as Leaver to try to look down on the chinese tour parties.

  

I walk around pattaya a lot and don,t see much evidence of spending by tour groups,you witness plenty of people in s21 but not much purchasing there's a lot of small buisnesses ,bars cafes good stalls that benefit from " lower end tourism" which remains in the local economy,you,d have thought the lockdown would have been a graphic example,but no the tat seem to be ploughing on with their quest for the platinum American express card mob.

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, Don Mega said:

What rise in baht ?

The rise from 75 to 38 baht =£1 since i,'ve been coming here.

[Don Mega]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

The rise from 75 to 38 baht =£1 since i,'ve been coming here.

Sounds more like the <deleted> fell out of the pound rather than a rise in the Baht.

 

[HashBrownHarry]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

The rise from 75 to 38 baht =£1 since i,'ve been coming here.

Is that not a fall?

[crobe]

57 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Does your average Chinese earn as much as your average Japanese or Korean tourists, and what about the purchasing power of the different currencies?

You will find that the most expensive apartments in the new condo blocks around Pattaya, and I am talking about the 30m+ bracket, were mostly being bought up by Chinese.

GDP per capita may be lower in China, and in Russia, but that does not mean that there are not people with money to spend. In fact the Chinese are about average.

 

[Leaver]

16 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Why do you only mention Isaan, is that your only experience outside Pattaya?

 

 

Hardly. 

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, crobe said:

You will find that the most expensive apartments in the new condo blocks around Pattaya, and I am talking about the 30m+ bracket, were mostly being bought up by Chinese.

GDP per capita may be lower in China, and in Russia, but that does not mean that there are not people with money to spend. In fact the Chinese are about average.

 

Are we discussing the tourism industry, or the property market? 

[Leaver]

15 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I walk around pattaya a lot and don,t see much evidence of spending by tour groups,you witness plenty of people in s21 but not much purchasing there's a lot of small buisnesses ,bars cafes good stalls that benefit from " lower end tourism" which remains in the local economy,you,d have thought the lockdown would have been a graphic example,but no the tat seem to be ploughing on with their quest for the platinum American express card mob.

7/11's and Family Mart's make a lot more profit with the Chinese tourists.  ????

[crobe]

9 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I walk around pattaya a lot and don,t see much evidence of spending by tour groups,you witness plenty of people in s21 but not much purchasing there's a lot of small buisnesses ,bars cafes good stalls that benefit from " lower end tourism" which remains in the local economy,you,d have thought the lockdown would have been a graphic example,but no the tat seem to be ploughing on with their quest for the platinum American express card mob.

I forget the name of the entertainment venue, but it is the big monolithic block on Soi 7 of Thepprasit - before the COVID you could see dozens of tour party coaches going there every evening - that is where the tour party money goes.

When you see them on the walking street they are just gawping, not going into the bars, and on the beach road going from the coach to the beach or the speedboat and back - but that just goes to show how separate the different groups of tourists are, and why Pattaya needs all of them to thrive

I don't see why some posters think this is an "us or them" situation - for the most part there is little interaction and the fact that there is more spending coming into the town should be an overall benefit.

I would hope that the small restaurants I frequent in Soi 7 or Soi Bukhao have enough trade to survive, but they would not be getting chinese tour groups, or if they did the character would change so much I would't be going there, so I hope that all range of tourists and expats co-exist. 

[Chivas]

10 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Is that not a fall?

No its a rise. Dollar/Baht strengthened obviously taking Sterling/Baht with it.

[crobe]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Are we discussing the tourism industry, or the property market? 

We are discussing Pattaya

read the OP title again - it is RIP Pattaya - not RIP tourism or whatever tiny limited area you want to choose.

Tourism, property market, local business , all have a part to play in the economy of Pattaya and whether it is "RIP" or not

[kingdong]

16 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Is that not a fall?

A fall to the tourist,a rise to the thais

[kingdong]

7 minutes ago, crobe said:

I forget the name of the entertainment venue, but it is the big monolithic block on Soi 7 of Thepprasit - before the COVID you could see dozens of tour party coaches going there every evening - that is where the tour party money goes.

When you see them on the walking street they are just gawping, not going into the bars, and on the beach road going from the coach to the beach or the speedboat and back - but that just goes to show how separate the different groups of tourists are, and why Pattaya needs all of them to thrive

I don't see why some posters think this is an "us or them" situation - for the most part there is little interaction and the fact that there is more spending coming into the town should be an overall benefit.

I would hope that the small restaurants I frequent in Soi 7 or Soi Bukhao have enough trade to survive, but they would not be getting chinese tour groups, or if they did the character would change so much I would't be going there, so I hope that all range of tourists and expats co-exist. 

Well in the terms of tourism looks like China's the tail wagging the dog,hope for pattaya s sake they,'re more loyal to pattaya than the Russians were.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, crobe said:

I forget the name of the entertainment venue, but it is the big monolithic block on Soi 7 of Thepprasit - before the COVID you could see dozens of tour party coaches going there every evening - that is where the tour party money goes.

Do you know who owns the establishment?  What if a Chinese company, using Thai nominees, owns it?  If that's the case, where does all the money go?

 

If a genuine Thai company does own it, you can be sure the Chinese tour operator have beat them down to their absolute rock bottom price, for everything.  Their profit margins would be minimal. 

 

The Chinese tour operators even built a fake Buddhist temple here, rather than take their tourists to a genuine one and have money go to Thai monks.  

 

Reported on TV.

 

  https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120450-pattaya-police-to-investigate-fake-temple-allegedly-set-up-for-zero-dollar-chinese-tours/

 

 

[Pattaya46]

27 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Well in the terms of tourism looks like China's the tail wagging the dog,hope for pattaya s sake they,'re more loyal to pattaya than the Russians were.

Russians are still there, in big numbers,

but they are mainly in South-Jomtien and Na-Jomtien areas (and Naklua too).

Edited May 22, 2020 by Pattaya46

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, crobe said:

We are discussing Pattaya

read the OP title again - it is RIP Pattaya - not RIP tourism or whatever tiny limited area you want to choose.

Tourism, property market, local business , all have a part to play in the economy of Pattaya and whether it is "RIP" or not

Ok, so, would you care to comment on the thousands of properties on the market in Pattaya, many of which have not sold in years, and this is pre virus? 

[crobe]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Do you know who owns the establishment?  What if a Chinese company, using Thai nominees, owns it?  If that's the case, where does all the money go?

 

If a genuine Thai company does own it, you can be sure the Chinese tour operator have beat them down to their absolute rock bottom price, for everything.  Their profit margins would be minimal. 

 

The Chinese tour operators even built a fake Buddhist temple here, rather than take their tourists to a genuine one and have money go to Thai monks.  

 

Reported on TV.

 

  https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120450-pattaya-police-to-investigate-fake-temple-allegedly-set-up-for-zero-dollar-chinese-tours/

 

 

I don't know who owns it, or care.

A lot of properties, including some of the gogos or bars that you possibly frequent,  are also owned by rich Thais from Bangkok, I could't care there either.

Do you really investigate who owns the restaurant before you go in for the first time?

The fact is that it was employing people, who then spent their money in the smaller restaurants, food stalls, rented apartments etc. etc.

That is money going into the local economy, supporting the people I would like to see continue in work,

[crobe]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Ok, so, would you care to comment on the thousands of properties on the market in Pattaya, many of which have not sold in years, and this is pre virus? 

I have already commented on this in other threads

[newnative]

14 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Well in the terms of tourism looks like China's the tail wagging the dog,hope for pattaya s sake they,'re more loyal to pattaya than the Russians were.

    The Russians numbers were down for awhile but they were noticeably back last high season before the virus hit--certainly in places like Cost Beach and Wong Amat, especially the beach areas of Soi 16 and adjacent sois.  Lots of families with 3 generations escaping the winter, enjoying the beach, and not hanging out on Walking Street.

[Leaver]

8 minutes ago, crobe said:

I don't know who owns it, or care.

A lot of properties, including some of the gogos or bars that you possibly frequent,  are also owned by rich Thais from Bangkok, I could't care there either.

Do you really investigate who owns the restaurant before you go in for the first time?

The fact is that it was employing people, who then spent their money in the smaller restaurants, food stalls, rented apartments etc. etc.

That is money going into the local economy, supporting the people I would like to see continue in work,

The Chinese owned Thai companies mainly employ 300 baht a day Thai employees.   Many are from other areas in Thailand.  These staff members live cheaply here, and send money to their family in another provinces every money, so that's money leaving the Pattaya economy.

 

I am sure you know this.  

 

You are trying to make out the mega wealthy Chinese holiday here.  They don't. Why would they?

[kingdong]

20 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Ok, so, would you care to comment on the thousands of properties on the market in Pattaya, many of which have not sold in years, and this is pre virus? 

 

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

    The Russians numbers were down for awhile but they were noticeably back last high season before the virus hit--certainly in places like Cost Beach and Wong Amat, especially the beach areas of Soi 16 and adjacent sois.  Lots of families with 3 generations escaping the winter, enjoying the beach, and not hanging out on Walking Street.

Must have been keeping a low profile then I was here jan,Feb and didn,t notice many.

[crobe]

Just now, Leaver said:

The Chinese owned Thai companies mainly employ 300 baht a day Thai employees.   Many are from other areas in Thailand.  These staff members live cheaply here, and send money to their family in another provinces every money, so that's money leaving the Pattaya economy.

 

I am sure you know this.  

 

You are trying to make out the mega wealthy Chinese holiday here.  They don't. Why would they?

The people working in there are on the same sort of salaries as those working in the rest of the bars in Pattaya. Go ask any of the service girls or cashiers in the bars you go to - they are on about 6k per month - they also send money back to their families in the provinces

I don't have a problem with what they do with their money - why do you?

You bitterness is showing again - you just want to find reasons to put the local people down