US Stimulus Checks--not if you're married to an immigrant

[Berkshire]

I just wonder if they're any US expats in this situation.  According to this article...

 

[...U.S. citizens aren’t eligible to receive the money if they’re married and filed taxes jointly with an immigrant who doesn’t have a social security number.]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-citizens-married-immigrants-blocked-145343198.html?.tsrc=jtc_news_index

 

So if you're married to a Thai who doesn't have a SS# and you filed your taxes jointly...did you get a stimulus check?

[bkk6060]

 

If they filed and the immigrant has an ITIN.

No check.

[cusanus]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

If they filed and the immigrant has an ITIN. No check.

Just because you're married to a Thai woman, that doesn't make her an immigrant. Oh, SHEET, this is what it says on ABC website: "The current stimulus package, like in 2008, excludes couples who file taxes jointly but where one does not have a social security number with the exception of military families."
I suppose I didn't have to put my Thai wife as a joint filer, neither of us has any taxable income, but we live in Thailand, Meaw has NEVER been in the US of A. Looks like I won't get my check. 

[jmccarty]

Looks impossible in any case if you are not collecting SS benefits. 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, jmccarty said:

Looks impossible in any case if you are not collecting SS benefits. 

Not sure why you think that.  I got my stimulus check (by direct deposit) already, 15 April, and I'm not yet eligible for SS.  But I do file US taxes every year (as a single) and the IRS knows my bank account number. 

[fredwiggy]

What if you filed as single in non filers,of course didn't include wife on that form? SS knows you're married

Edited April 23, 2020 by fredwiggy

[Berkshire]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

What if you filed as single in non filers,of course didn't include wife on that form? SS knows you're married but the IRS doesn't/

Good question.  I'm not sure about the process they go through to approve payments.  I would think that you should get paid just based on the IRS determination and that your SS# is legit.  I honestly don't know.  Good luck with that.

[cusanus]

Did several comments disappear? Is it just me, or does it not compute that a Thai wife who has never been to the USA is NOT an immigrant? To get a jump on it, I filed a 1040X (amended return) as filing separately without my Thai wife's info. Then I took it to the Post Office and found that Thai Post does NOT ship to the USA anymore. That could be a serious problem in five weeks when we're supposed to mail in our Proof of Life forms or face termination of SS payments. So, it's looking like those of us with Thai wives may not get our $1200 payment, even if they're in no way immigrants.

[fredwiggy]

Guessing if you file single,or have never filed with your wife, you'll get the stimulus. States if they have an ITIN number it won't work. Thats a number you get for her when you file with her I assume?

[Berkshire]

11 minutes ago, cusanus said:

Did several comments disappear? Is it just me, or does it not compute that a Thai wife who has never been to the USA is NOT an immigrant? To get a jump on it, I filed a 1040X (amended return) as filing separately without my Thai wife's info. Then I took it to the Post Office and found that Thai Post does NOT ship to the USA anymore. That could be a serious problem in five weeks when we're supposed to mail in our Proof of Life forms or face termination of SS payments. So, it's looking like those of us with Thai wives may not get our $1200 payment, even if they're in no way immigrants.

Yeah, I honestly do not understand their rationale for doing this.  It's not that your wife is/isn't an immigrant, it's that she's not a US citizen.  There are millions of Americans in your predicament, both in the USA and abroad. 

[cusanus]

7 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Yeah, I honestly do not understand their rationale for doing this.  It's not that your wife is/isn't an immigrant, it's that she's not a US citizen.  There are millions of Americans in your predicament, both in the USA and abroad. 

Crazy. Yeah, I got her a TIN about nine years ago and have usually filed joint even though I have no taxable income. So, changing to filing separate with an amended 1040X probably won't impress them, even though thousands with Thai wives who have never filed joint will get their checks. Meaw has never been to the US and neither of us ever hope to go there. It certainly does look like punishment of foreigners or those who might love them by Mr. Trump. As if I hadn't been punished enough by turning my back on crack cocaine and kiddie porn. Ok, ok... 

[silverhawk_usa]

Here is my situation as I have confirmed from various sources.  I filed my U.S. taxes.  I already received a direct deposit income tax refund direct deposited to my U.S. bank. This was before the Covid situation.

If I had filed as Single, I would still not get a stimulus check because my income level is to high to qualify.  However, I filed 'married filing jointly", so now WE are below the level and qualify for a stimulus check. EXCEPT; my Thai wife has an ITIN and not a #SS number. One cannot get a #SS number without being a citizen. Therefore, we will not get a stimulus check due to her ITIN.  I am not really too concerned about this, as I have filed my taxes for the last couple years as Married Filing Jointly, it makes a big reduction in my Income Tax and more than makes up for the stimulus check. 

What some are missing here, is not the fact that you are legally married to a foreigner, but whether or not she applied for a Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN) with the IRS. If so, she can then be claimed on your taxes.  If no ITIN, married or not, you cannot claim her.  Be aware; this number also makes her liable for U.S. taxes.  For instance if she would inherit any U.S. funds she would need that ITIN and be liable for taxes due.  The ITIN is explained quite well on the IRS Site.  Hope this helps.

[silverhawk_usa]

35 minutes ago, cusanus said:

Did several comments disappear? Is it just me, or does it not compute that a Thai wife who has never been to the USA is NOT an immigrant? To get a jump on it, I filed a 1040X (amended return) as filing separately without my Thai wife's info. Then I took it to the Post Office and found that Thai Post does NOT ship to the USA anymore. That could be a serious problem in five weeks when we're supposed to mail in our Proof of Life forms or face termination of SS payments. So, it's looking like those of us with Thai wives may not get our $1200 payment, even if they're in no way immigrants.

I wouldn't worry about the Proof of Life. You receive a number of warning notices, and quite a few months to submit it. I once made an error  on my first, my second they said was never received, and the third went through.  I am sure the mail situation will be sorted before you have to worry.

[cusanus]

16 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

What some are missing here, is not the fact that you are legally married to a foreigner, but whether or not she applied for a Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN) with the IRS. If so, she can then be claimed on your taxes.  If no ITIN, married or not, you cannot claim her.  Be aware; this number also makes her liable for U.S. taxes.  For instance if she would inherit any U.S. funds she would need that ITIN and be liable for taxes due.  Hope this helps.

It certainly explains it if you make enough money for the ITIN to shave your tax, not much sense for those of us who get no tax break for getting a spouse an ITIN just because they thought it might be useful and who have no taxable income. Nor is there any applicable inheritance tax unless it amounts to many times more money than most of us have ever dreamed of. For blokes like you, it still seems outright unfair and racist. You are being punished for having a non citizen wife, but why? What the hell. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by cusanus

[lopburi3]

Have Thai wife with ITIN.

Have filed jointly with DD refund on February 5.

Have not received any government payment 12 years ago or now.

 

[silverhawk_usa]

58 minutes ago, cusanus said:

It certainly explains it if you make enough money for the ITIN to shave your tax, not much sense for those of us who get no tax break for getting a spouse an ITIN just because they thought it might be useful and who have no taxable income. Nor is there any applicable inheritance tax unless it amounts to many times more money than most of us have ever dreamed of. For blokes like you, it still seems outright unfair and racist. You are being punished for having a non citizen wife, but why? What the hell. 

Thanks for your thoughts.  I am by no means what would be considered wealthy. I am not referring to inheritance tax.  For a simple IRA or Mutual fund, a percentage will be deducted and paid to the IRS before your beneficiary can receive the funds. She will probably be able to have that tax refunded, but it won't happen without an ITIN. If she is a beneficiary on U.S. bank account, they will require a ITIN also.  I suggest, if your other half is to be a beneficiary of any funds from the U.S. (doesn't have to be married) get an ITIN before your death.  There are hoops to go through, and I wouldn't want my wife having to hire a lawyer and do it on her own.

As for being unfair or racist, I don't agree. The stimulus checks are intended to help the U.S. economy and get people (in country) back on their feet who need it.  I don't live there anymore.  That was my choice.  If we lived in the U.S. I wouldn't expect Thailand to be sending her checks.  Overall, the U.S. is quite accommodating for expats compared to many other countries. I wish all the best to those in the U.S. going through hard times as I do for those in Thailand.

[cusanus]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Have Thai wife with ITIN.

Have filed jointly with DD refund on February 5.

Have not received any government payment 12 years ago or now.

I have to keep reminding myself that the statisticians say I'll be dead in six years and thank God I've got enough in the bank to eat. I'll have to remember not to get the next wife an ITIN. They're definitely right when they call me stupid. 

[cusanus]

2 hours ago, silverhawk_usa said:

Thanks for your thoughts.  I am by no means what would be considered wealthy. I am not referring to inheritance tax.  For a simple IRA or Mutual fund, a percentage will be deducted and paid to the IRS before your beneficiary can receive the funds. She will probably be able to have that tax refunded, but it won't happen without an ITIN. If she is a beneficiary on U.S. bank account, they will require a ITIN also.  I suggest, if your other half is to be a beneficiary of any funds from the U.S. (doesn't have to be married) get an ITIN before your death.  There are hoops to go through, and I wouldn't want my wife having to hire a lawyer and do it on her own.

As for being unfair or racist, I don't agree. The stimulus checks are intended to help the U.S. economy and get people (in country) back on their feet who need it.  I don't live there anymore.  That was my choice.  If we lived in the U.S. I wouldn't expect Thailand to be sending her checks.  Overall, the U.S. is quite accommodating for expats compared to many other countries. I wish all the best to those in the U.S. going through hard times as I do for those in Thailand.

My first 10 years I got beaten dozens of times, twice very nearly to death, and this at the bidding of school principals who never had any contact with me or any reason to dislike me. For the next 47 I couldn't get diagnostics on the damages done to my face because the medical brotherhood in the states is nothing but a slut for the pharmaceutical industry. That and purely felonious government fraud made it impossible to pursue a career. You could say I had a choice to stay, if I wanted to get sucked into kiddie porn, tax fraud, or at the end of it a cocaine and meth racket on government property, but to me there was no choice. Now, marrying a Thai woman was my choice. The USA has no moral right to deprive me of the $1200 stimulus just because I married her, and there's no need for her to be a beneficiary since everything I could scrape together in the states came here. She's taken very good care of me and owes the US of A nothing.

[TerryLH]

4 hours ago, silverhawk_usa said:

One cannot get a #SS number without being a citizen.

That's not true.  There are plenty of non US citizens with SS numbers. 

I believe they are mandatory if working in the USA.  No obligation to turn the SS number in if they return to their country.

[silverhawk_usa]

2 hours ago, TerryLH said:

That's not true.  There are plenty of non US citizens with SS numbers. 

I believe they are mandatory if working in the USA.  No obligation to turn the SS number in if they return to their country.

I stand corrected on that.  Depends on circumstances. Thanks.

Edited April 23, 2020 by silverhawk_usa

[Berkshire]

12 hours ago, silverhawk_usa said:

As for being unfair or racist, I don't agree. The stimulus checks are intended to help the U.S. economy and get people (in country) back on their feet who need it.  I don't live there anymore.  That was my choice.  If we lived in the U.S. I wouldn't expect Thailand to be sending her checks. 

That explanation might make sense if the Americans married to immigrants and living in the USA were receiving their stimulus checks.  But according to the article, they are not.  So certain Americans living overseas and filing single are receiving money, but Americans actually in America and filing jointly are not. 

[Mama Noodle]

20 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

That explanation might make sense if the Americans married to immigrants and living in the USA were receiving their stimulus checks.

 

You should clarify what you mean by 'immigrants' because there are tiers of 'immigrants' such as illegal aliens, legal immigrants, and citizens. 

 

23 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

So certain Americans living overseas and filing single are receiving money, but Americans actually in America and filing jointly are not. 

 

The rules are meant for Americans who contribute legally to the economy and the country. If you married a foreigner and filed as such you have been getting a tax discount without paying anything into the system. 

[flexomike]

20 hours ago, cusanus said:

Just because you're married to a Thai woman, that doesn't make her an immigrant. Oh, SHEET, this is what it says on ABC website: "The current stimulus package, like in 2008, excludes couples who file taxes jointly but where one does not have a social security number with the exception of military families."
I suppose I didn't have to put my Thai wife as a joint filer, neither of us has any taxable income, but we live in Thailand, Meaw has NEVER been in the US of A. Looks like I won't get my check. 

I think you can get it on your income tax filing for 2020 as a deduction

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

The rules are meant for Americans who contribute legally to the economy and the country. If you married a foreigner and filed as such you have been getting a tax discount without paying anything into the system. 

We are paying the same tax as we would be paying in USA and actually paying tax on foreign income not subject to normal US tax.  You believe we should not be able to file as married when legally married by the laws of the USA? 

[silverhawk_usa]

3 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

You should clarify what you mean by 'immigrants' because there are tiers of 'immigrants' such as illegal aliens, legal immigrants, and citizens. 

 

 

The rules are meant for Americans who contribute legally to the economy and the country. If you married a foreigner and filed as such you have been getting a tax discount without paying anything into the system. 

I have lived in Thailand for 19 years. For those years I paid the same U.S. Income Tax as anyone living in the U.S. and without any of the deductions that most Americans could claim for one reason or another. I receive no direct benefits from this U.S. Tax. I do receive Social Security which is money I paid in, and I pay taxes on that also. I pay into Medicare which I cannot use outside the U.S.    I pay tax on any withdrawals from investments, and tax on my pension.  Fairly recently I qualified, as discussed already, to file as Married.  I am still paying every penny of tax that I would pay if living in the U.S.   So how can you say "you have been getting a tax discount without paying anything into the system."?

 

[rabas]

What about people on social security that haven't filed taxes for 5-10 years? I have a Thai wife and long ago file jointly some times, she has a TIN. My wife is not named anywhere on my social security.  However, the Treasury Department set a rule that all social security recipients get the stimulus check automatically after the IRS tried to force people to file a simple tax form to get the check.

 

Has anyone seen the payment in their social security deposits?

 

Oh well, where are my dice.

[Throatwobbler]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:41 PM, cusanus said:

Did several comments disappear? Is it just me, or does it not compute that a Thai wife who has never been to the USA is NOT an immigrant? To get a jump on it, I filed a 1040X (amended return) as filing separately without my Thai wife's info. Then I took it to the Post Office and found that Thai Post does NOT ship to the USA anymore. That could be a serious problem in five weeks when we're supposed to mail in our Proof of Life forms or face termination of SS payments. So, it's looking like those of us with Thai wives may not get our $1200 payment, even if they're in no waydeleted

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Throatwobbler
Deleted. Pointless post

[Berkshire]

An update.  I never knew there was such thing as an "unauthorized immigrant"...which I assume is not the same as an "illegal immigrant."

 

[A man in Illinois filed a lawsuit Friday alleging that the Trump administration discriminated against US citizens who are married to "unauthorized" US residents in creating the requirements for receiving aid under the $2.2 trillion CARES Act.] 

 

[The lawsuit cites a report by the Migration Policy Institute that estimates there are around 1.2 million unauthorized US residents married to US citizens.]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-administration-mitch-mcconnell-hit-142609030.html?.tsrc=jtc_news_index