"No evidence" that recovered COVID-19 patients cannot be reinfected: WHO

[rooster59]

"No evidence" that recovered COVID-19 patients cannot be reinfected: WHO

 

FILE PHOTO: A logo is pictured on the headquarters of the World Health Organization (WHO) ahead of a meeting of the Emergency Committee on the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in Geneva, Switzerland, January 30, 2020. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse/File Photo

 

GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization (WHO) said on Saturday that there was currently "no evidence" that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second coronavirus infection.

 

In a scientific brief, the United Nations agency warned governments against issuing "immunity passports" or "risk-free certificates" to people who have been infected as their accuracy could not be guaranteed.

 

The practice could actually increase the risks of continued spread as people who have recovered may ignore advice about taking standard precautions against the virus, it said.

 

"Some governments have suggested that the detection of antibodies to the SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, could serve as the basis for an 'immunity passport' or 'risk-free certificate' that would enable individuals to travel or to return to work assuming that they are protected against re-infection," the WHO said.

 

"There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection," it said.

 

Chile said last week it would begin handing out "health passports" to people deemed to have recovered from the illness.

Once screened to determine if they have developed antibodies to make them immune to the virus, they could immediately rejoin the workforce.

 

The WHO said it continued to review the evidence on antibody responses to the virus, which emerged in the central Chinese city of Wuhan late last year. Some 2.8 million people have been reported to be infected by the novel coronavirus globally and 196,298 have died, according to a Reuters tally.

 

Most studies have shown that people who have recovered from infection have antibodies to the virus, the WHO said.

 

However, some of them have very low levels of neutralizing antibodies in their blood, "suggesting that cellular immunity may also be critical for recovery", it added.

 

(Reporting by Stephanie Nebehay; Editing by Louise Heavens and Helen Popper)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-04-25

 

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[Pilotman]

I am not sure of the biology here, but if you can get the virus twice or more, how can a vaccine possibly work? Vaccines work by stimulating the production of antibodies to the virus, just as if you had caught the virus itself.   if the antibodies do not protect you from re infection, neither will a vaccine? 

[edwardandtubs]

These clueless muppets also said there's no evidence of human-to-human transmission and praised the Chinese government for its transparency so it has absolutely no credibility left.

[elliss]

 

      The Virus that changed the World,  forever..

       

           

Edited April 25, 2020 by elliss
spelling

[ukrules]

29 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

"There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection," it said.

So now we have the WHO telling us that there's no evidence our immune systems work.

 

The reason most people didn't die and went on to produce detectable antibodies is because the immune system beat the virus, if it didn't then they would all have died.

 

I think this is the WHO railing against any kind of 'immunity id' - sounds political.

 

I'd like to see the antibody test results on the Chinese population, I'm sure many governments of the world would also like to see this, especially if there are big differences between the 'strains' released into different populations.

 

The Chinese will be tested one way or another, right now I suspect it will be when they enter foreign countries.

Edited April 25, 2020 by ukrules

[Tug]

This is worrisome I to wonder how it will affect future vaccines very worrisome indeed

[uncleP]

The koreans say that 6% of people relapse because they cant measure less than 3000 units of covid 19 in current testing regimens: under 3000 will give a negative result. They stress it's not a re infection  but a relapse due to sone patients very weak immune systems and that the vast majority of those testing negative do not relapse. The koreans are currently  the world leaders on sars type viruses.  So the WHO say there is no evidence of long term protection but there is also no evidence the other way. Only time will give this info.

Peace out guys

[ChouDoufu]

33 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

These clueless muppets also said there's no evidence of human-to-human transmission and praised the Chinese government for its transparency so it has absolutely no credibility left.

not really.  someone managing the twooter feed twatted on january 14th

 

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China

 

meaning they didn't have enough information to definitively confirm it.  they had suspicions, they had anecdotes.

 

on the same day, at their press briefing, (and in guidance sent to regional directors on the 10th and 11th of january)

 

There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China, mainly small clusters in families, but there is potential for wider spread, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/china-health-pneumonia-who/who-says-new-china-virus-could-spread-its-warning-all-hospitals-idUSL8N29F48F

 

now they are saying no evidence that recovered patients cannot be reinfected.  that is true.  there are numerous reports of recovered patients later apparently being reinfected.  so yeah, there has been no study that finds individuals can NOT be infected a second time.

[holy cow cm]

Just think. If it is connected to HIV 1 and the C 19 virus basically infiltrates to the white blood cell same as HIV does, then can there really be a vaccine? So how can it be eliminated same as HIV has no cure? Same penetrating external nudules that are lethal

Edited April 25, 2020 by holy cow cm

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

So now we have the WHO telling us that there's no evidence our immune systems work.

 

The reason most people didn't die and went on to produce detectable antibodies is because the immune system beat the virus, if it didn't then they would all have died.

 

I think this is the WHO railing against any kind of 'immunity id' - sounds political.

 

I'd like to see the antibody test results on the Chinese population, I'm sure many governments of the world would also like to see this, especially if there are big differences between the 'strains' released into different populations.

 

The Chinese will be tested one way or another, right now I suspect it will be when they enter foreign countries.

Think that one over again. HIV has not been eradicated. C 19 works the same exact way to hit your white blood cells. If you di not ingest a ton of C 19 then your body can even your sickness, but not eliminate the C 19. If you ingest from per say a cough that is too much over riding your viral load, then you are basically dead. So how does any vaccine work or will work when you viral load is compromised? HIV is a ticking time bomb but the medicine surround your white blood cells and repels the virus from killing your entire immune system. Got it? My thoughts are it acts as the same transmission and infection. so HIV medicine probably might protect you. Sop maybe it doesn't multiply after but it will stay on you viral load maybe to come alive again. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by holy cow cm

[Thongkorn]

1 hour ago, elliss said:

 

      The Virus that changed the World,  forever..

       

           

Who  Said one man cannot change the World,  Bat soup anyone.

[holy cow cm]

C 19 has attached to it being a protein inhibitor. And that right there cannot be a natural occurrence to the common Corona virus. It is an add on vehicle to infiltrate your viral load. Doesn't happen jumping like that naturally, it doesn't work that way. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by holy cow cm

[holy cow cm]

And this particular bat is not even near Wuhan. But even if it was, the market is seafood and the act started prior to the market infection, and the lab assistant supposedly was the one or the first carrier.... Cover up is all it can be .

 

Believe what you want.. Up to you! 

Edited April 25, 2020 by holy cow cm

[Dumbastheycome]

21 minutes ago, uncleP said:

The koreans say that 6% of people relapse because they cant measure less than 3000 units of covid 19 in current testing regimens: under 3000 will give a negative result. They stress it's not a re infection  but a relapse due to sone patients very weak immune systems and that the vast majority of those testing negative do not relapse. The koreans are currently  the world leaders on sars type viruses.  So the WHO say there is no evidence of long term protection but there is also no evidence the other way. Only time will give this info.

Peace out guys

Very  valid comment. "Relapse" is not  uncommon for many infectious diseases. As such it is  not re infection but a resurgence in competition to the  antibody production level due to variables that deplete the ongoing functions of the immune system. A  person who is  deemed  "recovered" is not necessarily "cured" in the short term. For some diseases that can be described as " adequately suppressed" so as to  eliminate symptoms until such time as  conditions to the advantage of the  pathogen can let it  resurface.

Immunity" can be as transient  as can be the variants of a pathogen such as seasonal  influenza.

However the  immune response can also be quicker which lessens the symptomatic effects.

While there have been reports of "re infections" involving  C-19 there has been no information as to evidence  of whether or not that has involved  a relapse or a variant infection response. Relative to that are the reports of  post recovery  sudden deaths  which are likely to be attributable to post trauma systemic organ damage rather than C-19 itself.

An aspect that seems to have been forgotten in the debate over "mitigation" versus  herd immunity is  that if the  herd immunity concept were to be accepted it also involves the  very real risk of increasing the chances of a mutant variant evolving that could be  much more deadly ! If reasonable efforts to  limit wide spread infection are  continued  that also lowers the potential  for such an outcome until such time as an effective  Vaccine/s are  available.

[holy cow cm]

5 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Very  valid comment. "Relapse" is not  uncommon for many infectious diseases. As such it is  not re infection but a resurgence in competition to the  antibody production level due to variables that deplete the ongoing functions of the immune system. A  person who is  deemed  "recovered" is not necessarily "cured" in the short term. For some diseases that can be described as " adequately suppressed" so as to  eliminate symptoms until such time as  conditions to the advantage of the  pathogen can let it  resurface.

Immunity" can be as transient  as can be the variants of a pathogen such as seasonal  influenza.

However the  immune response can also be quicker which lessens the symptomatic effects.

While there have been reports of "re infections" involving  C-19 there has been no information as to evidence  of whether or not that has involved  a relapse or a variant infection response. Relative to that are the reports of  post recovery  sudden deaths  which are likely to be attributable to post trauma systemic organ damage rather than C-19 itself.

An aspect that seems to have been forgotten in the debate over "mitigation" versus  herd immunity is  that if the  herd immunity concept were to be accepted it also involves the  very real risk of increasing the chances of a mutant variant evolving that could be  much more deadly ! If reasonable efforts to  limit wide spread infection are  continued  that also lowers the potential  for such an outcome until such time as an effective  Vaccine/s are  available.

Yes you got it. Not reinfection as it cannot be eliminated as already attached to your white blood cells and will just at times multiply.  

[rabas]

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

 WHO said on Saturday that there was currently "no evidence" that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second coronavirus infection.

There is also no evidence that anyone has been reinfected. So there is just no evidence. Then why on Earth is WHO making drama queen pronouncements to the world without evidence?

 

More Chinese disinformation. Maybe to discourage work on vaccines and other antibody technologies in the West. Reminiscent of the flood of anti-mask opinion as China was buying up masks.

 

It's scary to think about their end game, but not to worry, someone will be by shorty to explain it's all fine!

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, holy cow cm said:

Think that one over again. HIV has not been eradicated. C 19 works the same exact way to hit your white blood cells. If you di not ingest a ton of C 19 then your body can even your sickness, but not eliminate the C 19. If you ingest from per say a cough that is too much over riding your viral load, then you are basically dead. So how does any vaccine work or will work when you viral load is compromised? HIV is a ticking time bomb but the medicine surround your white blood cells and repels the virus from killing your entire immune system. Got it? My thoughts are it acts as the same transmission and infection. so HIV medicine probably might protect you. Sop maybe it doesn't multiply after but it will stay on you viral load maybe to come alive again. 

Sorry Boomer6969... Reason is the real answer. But in this case who knows. Maybe the material I have read and filtered to finally make my own opinion is correct. 

something is not right or correct here. I will follow my thoughts, but I dislike the Chinese government and their ways, but I will always try to be nice to their tourists here... That is unless they are old schooler Chinese, then all is on the table. Spit, hock tooeey, barbaric at barbecues ( younger Chinese more fun ok), Jump my Que ANY-WHERE gets me vocal and / or like a "What's Up"?!

Chinese Virus. Period!

Edited April 25, 2020 by holy cow cm

[NCC1701A]

More like the The World Moron Organization. 

[holy cow cm]

7 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

More like the The World Moron Organization. 

WHO. world heathen-sensual organization? 

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

There is also no evidence that anyone has been reinfected. So there is just no evidence. Then why on Earth is WHO making drama queen pronouncements to the world without evidence?

 

More Chinese disinformation. Maybe to discourage work on vaccines and other antibody technologies in the West. Reminiscent of the flood of anti-mask opinion as China was buying up masks.

 

It's scary to think about their end game, but not to worry, someone will be by shorty to explain it's all fine!

Yes there are. Several or many more at this point.

[frenetic]

2 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Yes you got it. Not reinfection as it cannot be eliminated as already attached to your white blood cells and will just at times multiply.  

No, Covid-19 virus doesn't attach to the white blood cells. It only attaches to cells with ACE2 receptors. Neither white nor red blood cells come equipped with those. Unfortunately, lots of other kinds of cells do.

[ChouDoufu]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

There is also no evidence that anyone has been reinfected. So there is just no evidence. Then why on Earth is WHO making drama queen pronouncements to the world without evidence?

 

More Chinese disinformation. Maybe to discourage work on vaccines and other antibody technologies in the West. Reminiscent of the flood of anti-mask opinion as China was buying up masks.

 

It's scary to think about their end game, but not to worry, someone will be by shorty to explain it's all fine!

 

there is no evidence either way, correct?  so what value is an "immunity passport" as proposed by several countries?  the who statement is in response to these proposals.

 

the concern is that a "certificate of immunity" will allow holders to bypass health measures meant to prevent spread of the virus. 

 

someone who has recovered may now consider themselves immune, so no longer feel the need to take normal precautions.

 

other countries dependent on tourism might consider allowing in foreign tourists holding one of these certificates.

 

should pattaya prepare to welcome 100,000 wuhanese with official cleanliness reports?  the city certainly needs the money, and gosh, there's no evidence they could be reinfected or perhaps become contagious sometime later, so why not?

 

seems if the who is colluding with china on disinformation, they would welcome immunity certificates.

[tlock]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

An aspect that seems to have been forgotten in the debate over "mitigation" versus  herd immunity is  that if the  herd immunity concept were to be accepted it also involves the  very real risk of increasing the chances of a mutant variant evolving that could be  much more deadly ! If reasonable efforts to  limit wide spread infection are  continued  that also lowers the potential  for such an outcome until such time as an effective  Vaccine/s are  available.

 

Wikipedia says that widespread infections favor weaker strains.  

 

Spanish flu article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

 

This increased severity has been attributed to the circumstances of the First World War.^[104] In civilian life, natural selection favors a mild strain. Those who get very ill stay home, and those mildly ill continue with their lives, preferentially spreading the mild strain. In the trenches, natural selection was reversed. Soldiers with a mild strain stayed where they were, while the severely ill were sent on crowded trains to crowded field hospitals, spreading the deadlier virus.

[torturedsole]

A certificate of immunity means zilch.  The continuing hysteria is starting to grate.  

[rabas]

10 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

10 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

These clueless muppets also said there's no evidence of human-to-human transmission and praised the Chinese government for its transparency so it has absolutely no credibility left.

not really.  someone managing the twooter feed twatted on january 14th

 

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China

 

meaning they didn't have enough information to definitively confirm it.  they had suspicions, they had anecdotes.

 

on the same day, at their press briefing, (and in guidance sent to regional directors on the 10th and 11th of january)

 

There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China, mainly small clusters in families, but there is potential for wider spread, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday.

Let us remove the mask from this piece of disinformation.

 

Insinuation: WHO didn't say there was no evidence of H2H, must be twitter twaat.

 

FALSE: From WHO's own website January 12:

 

"The evidence is highly suggestive that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood market in Wuhan. The market was closed on 1 January 2020. At this stage, there is no infection among healthcare workers, and no clear evidence of human to human transmission.  "

 

Said the WHO, on their official website, for the entire world to read.

 

Also note the deception about the seafood market, we now know the Chinese authorities knew of many cases pre-dating the food market by up to 1.5 months.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by rabas

[ChouDoufu]

9 minutes ago, rabas said:

Let us remove the mask from this piece of disinformation.

 

Insinuation: WHO didn't say there was no evidence of H2H, must be twitter twaat.

 

FALSE: From WHO's own website January 12:

 

"The evidence is highly suggestive that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood market in Wuhan. The market was closed on 1 January 2020. At this stage, there is no infection among healthcare workers, and no clear evidence of human to human transmission.  "

 

Said the WHO, on their official website, for the entire world to read.

 

Also note the deception about the seafood market, we now know the Chinese authorities knew of many cases pre-dating the food market by up to 1.5 months.

 

and good morning to you, too!  i see you're still having difficulty with english as used by professionals.

 

you are quoting an update from sunday, january 12, summarizing the information the who had received from the chinese authorities up to that point, early in the investigation, and when the who knew of only 41 cases in wuhan.

 

"On 11 and 12 January 2020, WHO received further detailed information from the National Health Commission about the outbreak."

 

as i'm sure i've explained before, "no clear evidence" does NOT mean "no evidence."  you either do not understand, or you are purposefully attempting to alter the intended meaning.  "no clear evidence"  means there is a suggestion or indication, but not, how you say, "clear" definitive proof.

 

there is NO insinuation.  the who did NOT say there was "no evidence."  i would certainly be willing to reconsider this if you are able to provide a link to a who statement that specifically states "no evidence" of human-human transmission.  can you do that?  i didn't think so.

 

and as you can see from the reuters link above to the who press briefing from tuesday january 14, additional information was received, indicating limited human to human transmission.

 

"There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China, mainly small clusters in families, but there is potential for wider spread, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday."

 

do you intend to argue that "limited transmission" = "no transmission?"

 

you might argue deception on the part of chinese authorities about prior cases, but if they aren't reporting, the who could not know.  not sure how you could claim that the who is covering up the source.  at that point they had mainly the information they had received from the chinese, that the virus was linked to or associated with the market.  other than propaganda websites, that seems to be the working theory through to today.

[phantomfiddler]

Is it my imagination, or is this beginning to sound just like the good old flu that we have grown to love, and definitely tolerate, over the past several decades ?

[seancbk]

17 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I am not sure of the biology here, but if you can get the virus twice or more, how can a vaccine possibly work? Vaccines work by stimulating the production of antibodies to the virus, just as if you had caught the virus itself.   if the antibodies do not protect you from re infection, neither will a vaccine? 

 

They've been trying to find a vaccine for HIV since it's discovery in 1983.  

Just because they are looking for a vaccine for SARS does no mean they will find one.  

[malibukid]

i think the problem could be that the antibodies produced by the body are not sufficient to prevent re-infection.  a vaccine incorporating a adjunct to boost the natural production of antibodies may be a solution to guard against re-infection.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by malibukid

[Pilotman]

and of course, they have not produced a vaccine for either Malaria, a massive killer, or Dengue.