180 Day Rule

[khon kaen boy]

Guys,

have heard so many conflicting stories regarding my position, I currently do a 28 day on 28 day off rota in Russia and return to Thailand on tourist visa each time (which works out at 26 days in country) so in reality I am doing only 88 days in a 180 day period.

I hold two UK passports and have been alternating these each time coming in, the question is would only passport be ok ? and also do they track electronically now or is it up to the immigration official to spot any errors ?

Regards

KK boy

[Lite Beer]

Guys,

have heard so many conflicting stories regarding my position, I currently do a 28 day on 28 day off rota in Russia and return to Thailand on tourist visa each time (which works out at 26 days in country) so in reality I am doing only 88 days in a 180 day period.

I hold two UK passports and have been alternating these each time coming in, the question is would only passport be ok ? and also do they track electronically now or is it up to the immigration official to spot any errors ?

Regards

KK boy

It seems you can enter as many times as you like if you have Tourist Visas.

Not sure how you have 2 UK Passports though.

[mikethevigoman]

Guys,

have heard so many conflicting stories regarding my position, I currently do a 28 day on 28 day off rota in Russia and return to Thailand on tourist visa each time (which works out at 26 days in country) so in reality I am doing only 88 days in a 180 day period.

I hold two UK passports and have been alternating these each time coming in, the question is would only passport be ok ? and also do they track electronically now or is it up to the immigration official to spot any errors ?

Regards

KK boy

It seems you can enter as many times as you like if you have Tourist Visas.

Not sure how you have 2 UK Passports though.

Easy, i have 2 also, if you travel in your work and need visas some can take a while to process, in this case the home office will issue another you can use while the former is away ,

[Lite Beer]

Guys,

have heard so many conflicting stories regarding my position, I currently do a 28 day on 28 day off rota in Russia and return to Thailand on tourist visa each time (which works out at 26 days in country) so in reality I am doing only 88 days in a 180 day period.

I hold two UK passports and have been alternating these each time coming in, the question is would only passport be ok ? and also do they track electronically now or is it up to the immigration official to spot any errors ?

Regards

KK boy

It seems you can enter as many times as you like if you have Tourist Visas.

Not sure how you have 2 UK Passports though.

Easy, i have 2 also, if you travel in your work and need visas some can take a while to process, in this case the home office will issue another you can use while the former is away ,

Thanks. I have learnt something.

[lopburi3]

As said there is no problem if you are really using tourist visas issued by a Consulate. That is not subject to the 90 day rule.

It is not 180 days but six months and last entry before anniversary of first entry six month period results in permitted to say of only that amount of time regardless of totals. IE enter first time on passport one 28 Oct 2006 and now making an entry 14 April. Permitted to stay stamp will for for the period from now until the six month anniversary of your first entry - or about 13 days permitted to stay. We do not know that this is the correct way of doing things but it is what has happened to a number of people this month.

Count is being done manually.

[khon kaen boy]

Thanks guys,

yeah if you are travelling all over your company will send a letter on your behalf as you could be in Thailand at the time but require visa for say Cameroon then if only one passport you have a problem as no consulate in Thailand, so Fedex, DHL your second to company who then get visa processed and send 2nd passport back to you

[khon kaen boy]

Sorry Lopburi it is free visa on entry I am getting, so what would be the effect on that ?

[lopburi3]

I would advise a explaining your situation to a smaller consulate and using the extra passport to obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa if they are will to issue for you. That would take care of all travel for a year. Alternative is mailing for tourist every couple of months. You are very likely to come up with problems even with the alternating passports because of the fixed six month from first entry I outlined above.

[BigSnake]

Guys,

have heard so many conflicting stories regarding my position, I currently do a 28 day on 28 day off rota in Russia and return to Thailand on tourist visa each time (which works out at 26 days in country) so in reality I am doing only 88 days in a 180 day period.

I hold two UK passports and have been alternating these each time coming in, the question is would only passport be ok ? and also do they track electronically now or is it up to the immigration official to spot any errors ?

Regards

KK boy

Two UK passports how did you pull that off?? Yes they can and do track electronically,beware it will only be a matter of time before some SHARP EYES immigration official catch on. Until than enjoy

[LivinLOS]

Guys,

have heard so many conflicting stories regarding my position, I currently do a 28 day on 28 day off rota in Russia and return to Thailand on tourist visa each time (which works out at 26 days in country) so in reality I am doing only 88 days in a 180 day period.

I hold two UK passports and have been alternating these each time coming in, the question is would only passport be ok ? and also do they track electronically now or is it up to the immigration official to spot any errors ?

Regards

KK boy

Two UK passports how did you pull that off?? Yes they can and do track electronically,beware it will only be a matter of time before some SHARP EYES immigration official catch on. Until than enjoy

Simple, you just ask..

When I applied they asked for a reason.. I said I needed to post my passport away for a visa (seen the Libyan consul in BKK ??) and Thailand says I have to carry one at all times.. Result 2nd passport.

If you have to travel the middle east and have been or will also go to isreal.. I think even cuba and USA is a reason you can get a 2nd. For the UK its trivial process and very handy.

[khon kaen boy]

Hi Lopburi,

ok on one passport first entry is 12 Nov 2006 ( Dep 4 Dec), next entry was 16 Mar 2007 (Dep 11 Apr )

what is left on this one ?

2nd passport was entry 27 Sep 2006 (Dep 9 Oct) next entry was 5 Jan 2007 (Dep 11 Feb) included visa run to Laos for new VOA, what is left on this one ?

I am legally married to a Thai but never applied for marriage visa, will have to contemplate this one now I think

KK Boy

[lopburi3]

It does not appear you have any problem being under the 90 days but you will have a problem between 5 and 6 months after first visa exempt entry after Oct 1 of last years as you will not get a full 30 day stamp if you are unlucky as many seem to be to have them use the last month of six month period as a max that you can use. So if you enter between April 12 and May 12 on the first passport you are likely to receive a number of day to take you to May 12. The other would be 5 June to 5 July period.

If you have marriage take your marriage certificate and wife for a vacation in Singapore next visit and obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa. They currently require a bank account with 400k but do not believe it has to be in Thailand if you have a number of accounts. Or you could try Kuala Lumpur as they will often issue without bank account and if you explain situation believe you would have a good chance. The marriage extension of stay would be very hard to do with your schedule as your passport has to appear 30 days after application for the approved stamp.

[fm2002]

As said there is no problem if you are really using tourist visas issued by a Consulate. That is not subject to the 90 day rule.

It is not 180 days but six months and last entry before anniversary of first entry six month period results in permitted to say of only that amount of time regardless of totals. IE enter first time on passport one 28 Oct 2006 and now making an entry 14 April. Permitted to stay stamp will for for the period from now until the six month anniversary of your first entry - or about 13 days permitted to stay. We do not know that this is the correct way of doing things but it is what has happened to a number of people this month.

Count is being done manually.

I'm a bit confused. Hopefully you can clarify things for me. During the 1st 6 month period I have approximately 86 days in Thailand (October thru March). I plan on entering back into Thailand June 02, 2007. My question is, in calculating how many days, will Immigration start counting from October or 6 months back from June 02 ? Thanks

[LivinLOS]

Agree with lop.. By virtue of the multiple passports you should be OK with being able to keep your day count low.. But now you also have to watch your 6 month blocks.. I think at this point in time no one can say (least of all immigration) if they are going to block the year into two blocks only or if it will be constantly rolling blocks where any 5 - 6 month entry is problematic.

My mate just did a Ranong visa run and had 60 something days (by his count I havent looked at passport yet).. They gave him 5 days 'to leave the country' no explanation, no assistance or clarification, not even said he could get a tourist visa by going to Malaysia etc.. Left him nervous and soured on Thailand as a place to spend the money he makes working internationally.

My first feeling around these rule changes was people would always find a way and it wouldnt have much net result.. Now the finding of a way is getting so inconvenient that I wonder if working guys who are casual residents (work out of Thailand contracting but return to Thailand to blow the earnings) will not find alternatives. They are not really tourists I agree but (they are big spenders) neither are they permanent or possible to get long stay visa's. The idea that my housemate would have to fly Trinidad to London to then get a tourist visa for a couple of days before each visit 'home' for 28 days (now 25 or less with visa and travel issues) is just too inconvenient to be workable.

[LivinLOS]

As said there is no problem if you are really using tourist visas issued by a Consulate. That is not subject to the 90 day rule.

It is not 180 days but six months and last entry before anniversary of first entry six month period results in permitted to say of only that amount of time regardless of totals. IE enter first time on passport one 28 Oct 2006 and now making an entry 14 April. Permitted to stay stamp will for for the period from now until the six month anniversary of your first entry - or about 13 days permitted to stay. We do not know that this is the correct way of doing things but it is what has happened to a number of people this month.

Count is being done manually.

I'm a bit confused. Hopefully you can clarify things for me. During the 1st 6 month period I have approximately 86 days in Thailand (October thru March). I plan on entering back into Thailand June 02, 2007. My question is, in calculating how many days, will Immigration start counting from October or 6 months back from June 02 ? Thanks

At this stage no one really knows.. I doubt immigration really have it clear themselves and certainly I fully expect it to be inconsistently applied with no recourse or appeal either.

Will it be 2 fixed blocks per year.. Or rolling blocks that mean that always a 5 - 6 month later visit is cut short.. Until we have a few more months reports and time for immigration to get everyone singing from the same hymn book then I would definitely get a tourist visa.

[blizzard]

go frankie. you better have a tourist visa ready. if yours days were loaded in the middle or end of your 6 months you will likely be disappointed with how many days you get.

[meom]

I'm a bit confused. Hopefully you can clarify things for me. During the 1st 6 month period I have approximately 86 days in Thailand (October thru March). I plan on entering back into Thailand June 02, 2007. My question is, in calculating how many days, will Immigration start counting from October or 6 months back from June 02 ? Thanks

The way I understand it they start counting from the 1st day you entered after October 1, 2006.

So if you entered the 1st time on October 5 your 6 month or 180 day period runs until April 4, 2007 after which in theory the 2nd block of 6month/180 days starts. Since you plan to come back after April 4 (June 02) you would get any way a 30 day stamp. Logically speaking your new 6month/180 day period would start from June 02.

However in LOS nothing is ever logical so they might as well start counting 6month/180 day from April 5 or something.

[fm2002]

I'm a bit confused. Hopefully you can clarify things for me. During the 1st 6 month period I have approximately 86 days in Thailand (October thru March). I plan on entering back into Thailand June 02, 2007. My question is, in calculating how many days, will Immigration start counting from October or 6 months back from June 02 ? Thanks

The way I understand it they start counting from the 1st day you entered after October 1, 2006.

So if you entered the 1st time on October 5 your 6 month or 180 day period runs until April 4, 2007 after which in theory the 2nd block of 6month/180 days starts. Since you plan to come back after April 4 (June 02) you would get any way a 30 day stamp. Logically speaking your new 6month/180 day period would start from June 02.

However in LOS nothing is ever logical so they might as well start counting 6month/180 day from April 5 or something.

Thanks guys. I hope they will start a new count April. If so I will be okay, but as stated it really is a crap shoot. Actually considering going through a agency, perhaps Sunbelt, and apply for a "B" Visa. HAven't talked with them yet so don't know if I can qualify. Also heard if I apply at the Denver Colorado Thai consulate I could get a "O" Visa. My problem is I'm an American citizen, younger than 50 and live no where near a Thai consulate.

It really is frustrating as I am not trying to live in Thailand but instead visiting often and spending $$$ without breaking any laws.

[lopburi3]

You do not have to visit a Consulate. The process can be done by mail and you can talk with them on the phone or by email.

[astral]

I also have 2 UK passports, quite legally.

I needed a letter of support from my company to justify the situation,

but it is no big deal for the FCO, and once issued is fully renewable.

A friend who works for a major newspaper and travels a great deal has 7 UK passports!!

[blizzard]

think about it guys the only way 90 days

out of 6 months works is if its a rolling period, not a reset after 6 months.

ex. use oct 1,06 as start, say you use your 90 days in jan 07, feb,07, and marc 07. if immigration gave you a reset on april1 and you used april,may and june in your 2nd block of 90 available days then you would have been in thailand 180 days out of 180 days*6 months".

[Krub]

think about it guys the only way 90 days

out of 6 months works is if its a rolling period, not a reset after 6 months.

ex. use oct 1,06 as start, say you use your 90 days in jan 07, feb,07, and marc 07. if immigration gave you a reset on april1 and you used april,may and june in your 2nd block of 90 available days then you would have been in thailand 180 days out of 180 days*6 months".

Some immigration officers think that way some don't, there lies the probllem as we do not know for sure howthe rule is or will be implemented until you present your passport at the border.....Best to have a visa in case of doubt

[LivinLOS]

think about it guys the only way 90 days

out of 6 months works is if its a rolling period, not a reset after 6 months.

ex. use oct 1,06 as start, say you use your 90 days in jan 07, feb,07, and marc 07. if immigration gave you a reset on april1 and you used april,may and june in your 2nd block of 90 available days then you would have been in thailand 180 days out of 180 days*6 months".

But if you come in Oct 1 and stay for 90 days I presume your using a tourist visa..

So your 180 days would not start then.. Your 180 days would start the first time you use a visa exempt entry stamp.. Eg Jan 07..

So you would now need to be on a tourist visa for 3 months and be very careful about how they start looking at your 6 month blocks even directly after that.

The whole system is a mess.. I have to conclude they are reading every possible intepretation to make it awkward.. Its a block when they want its rolling when they want.. Either way they seem intent on stopping the use of 30 day stamps for anything other than the most simple of tourism purposes and package holiday maker. All well and good, its thier country and thier call, but where I live the economy is very much benefited from the person who works overseas and parties in Thailand on his downtime.. To give that up and send these very mobile big spenders elsewhere is going to have a large effect locally.

Edited April 15, 2007 by LivinLOS

[rak sa_ngop]

Either way they seem intent on stopping the use of 30 day stamps for anything other than the most simple of tourism purposes and package holiday maker.

You forgot to add:

......with the condition that they do not enter Thailand more than once in a 6 month period!!!!

Edited April 15, 2007 by rak sa_ngop

[Thai-Spy]

The whole system is a mess.. I have to conclude they are reading every possible intepretation to make it awkward.. Its a block when they want its rolling when they want.. Either way they seem intent on stopping the use of 30 day stamps for anything other than the most simple of tourism purposes and package holiday maker. All well and good, its thier country and thier call, but where I live the economy is very much benefited from the person who works overseas and parties in Thailand on his downtime.. To give that up and send these very mobile big spenders elsewhere is going to have a large effect locally.

As Napoleon is reputed to have said: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by simple incompetence". The fact that different Immigration offices are working from different interpretations of the regulations is not a sinister act. The same problem can be found when dealing with different offices of any government ministry or department. The tendency of Thai government functions to break down into fiefdoms under quasi-independent direction is well known and unlikely to change any time soon.

The burden of compliance to get a proper tourist visa rather than relying solely on visa exemptions is not that great for most people. Undoubtedly it will pose a hardship for some but they will be in the minority. Of course it's human nature to feel hard done by; when you've enjoyed a privilege for a long time it starts to feel like a natural right. Government by its very nature prefers to deal with categories of people rather than individual cases, and it's impossible to frame regulations that satisfy everyone's interests.

It would be interesting to know which local area you're referring to, but generally speaking the behavior of the "downtimers" in economic terms is not that different from the more typical mom-and-pop tourist, aside from the number of days spent in Thailand. But in general terms these frequent visitors are so few on a percentage basis that even losing all of them wouldn't make a great dent in the tourist revenues.

[LivinLOS]

The whole system is a mess.. I have to conclude they are reading every possible intepretation to make it awkward.. Its a block when they want its rolling when they want.. Either way they seem intent on stopping the use of 30 day stamps for anything other than the most simple of tourism purposes and package holiday maker. All well and good, its thier country and thier call, but where I live the economy is very much benefited from the person who works overseas and parties in Thailand on his downtime.. To give that up and send these very mobile big spenders elsewhere is going to have a large effect locally.

As Napoleon is reputed to have said: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by simple incompetence". The fact that different Immigration offices are working from different interpretations of the regulations is not a sinister act. The same problem can be found when dealing with different offices of any government ministry or department.

That argument would be more believable if it was different offices giving different interpretations.. The point I was badly trying to make is the same offices are reading hte rules to the negative in all possible ways.. Eg the same office is giving a block of 180 days (qand hence small amount of days entry even if well under 90) AND also treating it as rolling (if your block ends you dont get a fresh 30 day entry.. Being told they must now have a tourist)..

In fact I cant think of a single interpretation that has been favorable for Thai longer stay visitors in the last 6 months ?? Surely it can all be incompetence..

The burden of compliance to get a proper tourist visa rather than relying solely on visa exemptions is not that great for most people. Undoubtedly it will pose a hardship for some but they will be in the minority. Of course it's human nature to feel hard done by; when you've enjoyed a privilege for a long time it starts to feel like a natural right. Government by its very nature prefers to deal with categories of people rather than individual cases, and it's impossible to frame regulations that satisfy everyone's interests.

however there are categories of real visitors who currently have been welcomed.. Have been purely a net benefit.. And now are not catered for..

The big spending oil worker on 28 and 28 doesnt have much opportunity between rig and bangkok to stop for a tourist to satisfy his next 28 day downtime..

It would be interesting to know which local area you're referring to, but generally speaking the behavior of the "downtimers" in economic terms is not that different from the more typical mom-and-pop tourist, aside from the number of days spent in Thailand. But in general terms these frequent visitors are so few on a percentage basis that even losing all of them wouldn't make a great dent in the tourist revenues.

Local area being Phuket specifically Patong.. I must say that of my expat mates perhaps 1/2 of them are oil or contract workers.. Many of them spend 150k - 250k or so in thier months off here.. They spend on average more (IMO) than the average tourist and do so for 6 months a year.. If the options get too restrictive they will find another easy place that wants thier money..

Now I readily admit that Phuket and the environs I hang out in in the more expat and less tourist bars is not representative of the issue as a whole, its probably the worst hit by this.. Tho I still think the indirect effect of losing these people will be far greater than is estimated.

[KhunNoo]

Guys,

have heard so many conflicting stories regarding my position, I currently do a 28 day on 28 day off rota in Russia and return to Thailand on tourist visa each time (which works out at 26 days in country) so in reality I am doing only 88 days in a 180 day period.

I hold two UK passports and have been alternating these each time coming in, the question is would only passport be ok ? and also do they track electronically now or is it up to the immigration official to spot any errors ?

Regards

KK boy

Hi

I have x2 UK passports too, and would consider it EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that the immigration would tumble you on this .... questionable what the official line would be if they do (NOT ..... Baht donations all round) .... how many John Smiths are in the country at any one time ...... pints and pints of them .... ha ha ha ..... good luck

[Thai-Spy]

That argument would be more believable if it was different offices giving different interpretations.. The point I was badly trying to make is the same offices are reading hte rules to the negative in all possible ways.. Eg the same office is giving a block of 180 days (qand hence small amount of days entry even if well under 90) AND also treating it as rolling (if your block ends you dont get a fresh 30 day entry.. Being told they must now have a tourist)..

In fact I cant think of a single interpretation that has been favorable for Thai longer stay visitors in the last 6 months ?? Surely it can all be incompetence..

In that case something certainly is amiss although, again, it is just one possible interpretation albeit the least favorable one. As for the most favorable possible interpretation... The newest regs don't leave many cracks for sunshine to squeeze through. The best possible news would be that a very senior Immigration official is aware of the confusion and misinterpretations and will issue a definitive and unambiguous directive. While that might not be good news, at least everyone would know where they stand.

You're right that the bigger picture hasn't been great, but as you said earlier (and many others have said) it is their country, after all. One point that remains (and its probably as boring to read again as it is to type again) is that Thailand seems to want to more tightly integrate those foreigners that can be integrated, and say goodbye to those who can't or won't fit the programme whether or not they are cashed-up and well-intentioned.

The big spending oil worker on 28 and 28 doesnt have much opportunity between rig and bangkok to stop for a tourist to satisfy his next 28 day downtime..

Local area being Phuket specifically Patong.. I must say that of my expat mates perhaps 1/2 of them are oil or contract workers.. Many of them spend 150k - 250k or so in thier months off here.. They spend on average more (IMO) than the average tourist and do so for 6 months a year.. If the options get too restrictive they will find another easy place that wants thier money..

Now I readily admit that Phuket and the environs I hang out in in the more expat and less tourist bars is not representative of the issue as a whole, its probably the worst hit by this.. Tho I still think the indirect effect of losing these people will be far greater than is estimated.

Your forward-looking concern for those bars and other facilities which specifically cater to those people is astute. But, any overspecialized business is at risk during a time of economic or regulatory adjustment. As with any business it's up to the individual owner to figure out how to sail with the changing tides.

[CyberViking]

I originally posted this under the "New requirement to show air ticket at land border" topic, but I guess it's more relevant here.

I made a visa run to the Ban Laem border crossing on Thursday the 11th. The immigration officers were *scrutinizing* passports to make sure that everyone met the 180-day requirement, that is, did not have more than three 30-day stamps in the past 180 days. Three in our group, including myself, proved to be short of the 180 days. I had 3x 30-day entry permits starting October 21, a 60-day tourist visa, and a 30-day extension to the tourist visa. Because I had departed Thailand for my tourist visa "early" in that particular 30-day block, however, I was some 11 days short. I was aware of this, but was acting on information -- perhaps outdated and in any event inaccurate -- that a tourist visa "re-set the clock". I've since been re-educated, so let's not dwell on that gaff.

The immigration officer -- who was quite amicable and helpful -- gave me a 5-day stamp, told me to get a 7-day extension (1,900 baht) at an immigration office, and then return to the crossing before the end of those 12 days. Having passed 180 days by then, he would then give me another 30-day entry stamp.

The other two individuals were about 5 or 6 days short, with their 30-day tourist visa extensions expiring the day of the visa run. The immigration officer would not even permit them to exit Thailand, telling them instead to get a 7-day extension before the end of the day, and then return to the crossing before the end of those 7 days for another 30-day stamp.

I've since done the 7-day extension locally and am good until April 22. I plan, however, on flying to Pinang on April 22 to apply for another 60-day tourist visa (my second one from down there). The constant changes in immigration rules, and the seemingly ad-hoc interpretation and enforcement of the same, are making the Cambodia visa runs way too iffy for me. I'll spend the extra money and go to Pinang. I agree that the authorities are trying to discourage the use of the 30-day stamps.

[Martin]

"I agree that the authorities are trying to discourage the use of the 30-day stamps. "

When I think about it, I see thirty-day stamps as having only been really feasible for a more innocent age.

I would expect them to go entirely ere long.

I have every sympathy for the OP.

He is a man with a perfectly valid reason for being allowed to enter Thailand and stay herein.

That is allowed for in the Regulations, by him being permitted to have a non-immigrant visa (on the basis of "Supporting Thai wife") with which to enter, and end-on-end extensions of his length of stay of a year at a time.

His going off on business trips is also allowed for, by the provision of Re-entry Permits.

However, previously, he could save himself money by using the "30 days without a visa" provision that was provided for holidaymakers.

When I was in a similar position, I noticed that there was that 'loophole' that saved me money. When I was only going to be able to stay at home for less than 30 days, I could come in without a visa. That saved me the fee for having the visa application examined, and the fee for having the application for a Re-entry Permit examined.

I was punctiliously above-board, though. I used to write on that form on the plane, where it says 'Reason for entry', that phrase: "Supporting Thai wife".

I did not tick the box for 'tourist', as I believe that every country has the right (in fact, the duty to its citizens) to know exactly what foreigners are coming in and for what reason, and should be assisted in that.

On the other hand, in the UK (where I am not a foreign guest, but a citizen) I am as stroppily anti-authoritarian as all-get-out.

I have even told a Heathrow Customs Examiner, who asked where I had been and why, that it was none of his business. His job was just to see that I paid the correct Import Duty (nil, in that case) on what I was bringing in with me. (I was in no hurry, so it didn't matter if he retaliated by making me spend some time showing him all that was in my luggage.)

In the event there was a tightening of his lips, a pause and then, with a little wry smile, he said: "Actually, you have a very good point there, Sir."

(He may have been a goody; or a baddy who sensed that I would have been watching for the slightest little slip that gave me a hinge on which to swing the gate of a "Maladministration" complaint.)

I would suggest that it is OK (in fact, a duty) for me to be as awkward as possible with Authority, where I am operating within my own culture.

But I think that it is sensible, and good manners, to be very careful to be helpful when the official has been brought up in, and is operating in, a different culture from that of my upbringing.