Expired tourist visa, cannot go from COVID-19 emergency extension to work visa, have to attempt border-run when things open up. Any options?

[BangkokReady]

So I arrived in Thailand on a tourist visa which has now expired.

 

Currently here based on the COVID-19 emergency extension/amnesty for expired tourist visas (currently valid until 31st July).

 

Agency took so long getting work visa paperwork done that I didn't get to the immigration office until after my tourist visa expired (they assumed visa run was possible so took their time).

 

Immigration say that I cannot go from COVID-19 extension to work visa and that I will have to wait until the borders open and do a visa run.

 

Obviously when the borders eventually do open it's going to be pretty hard to get out and probably harder to get back in.

 

Anyone have any experience or input on this?

Edited May 4, 2020 by BangkokReady
Title clarity

[ubonjoe]

Not sure if it is a immigration policy that the "automatic extension" is not same as extending your original entry from a visa. But I did expect some offices to say that.

Which office said that?

[BangkokReady]

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Which office said that?

Chaengwattana.

 

It was quite confusing because I first went just before the end of April and she seemed to say she would have allowed it if I had come 15 days before the end of April (but still with expired tourist visa).

 

After this, as it was before the announcement of the second COVID-19 visa amnesty, I went with my embassy letter to ask for an extension based on that.  I foolishly thought that if that was granted it would be OK.  (With hindsight, I should have waited until the announcement, but I was a little panicky and thought that they would accept the embassy letter extension.  Kicking myself a little about that.)

 

So the second time I went, after the second visa amnesty until 31st July had been announced, I first got the stamp to say that I was granted stay due to the embassy letter (with more than 15 days left), then went to the work visa section.  I'm not sure if the fact that I got the extension with the embassy letter affected it, but they seemed to say that it had to be on the initial tourist visa time.

Edited May 4, 2020 by BangkokReady

[Tanoshi]

Am I misunderstanding or missing something here.

The OP was trying to obtain an extension based on working from a TV entry?

[BangkokReady]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The OP was trying to obtain an extension based on working from a TV entry?

Trying to move from a tourist visa onto a work visa.

[Tanoshi]

Perhaps it's your definition of a 'work Visa' that's confusing me.

My definition of a work Visa would be a Non B Visa, which can only be obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate, not from a local Immigration office.

 

It's possible to convert your TV entry into a Non O at Immigration.

Not attempting to be pedantic, just understand your situation.

[ubonjoe]

56 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

My definition of a work Visa would be a Non B Visa, which can only be obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate, not from a local Immigration office.

It is possible to apply for a non immigrant visa (category B) based upon qualifying for an extension for working and teaching at immigration. List here in Thai of the cases they are allowed for. https://division1.immigration.go.th/content/change_visa

[Tanoshi]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is possible to apply for a non immigrant visa (category B) based upon qualifying for an extension for working and teaching at immigration. List here in Thai of the cases they are allowed for. https://division1.immigration.go.th/content/change_visa

Thanks, I wasn't aware you could change the category of VE or TV to Non B at Immigration upon qualifications of teaching. Now I understand the OP's post.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

My last two Non-B's for teaching over the past two years have been converted from tourist visas, without having to leave the country and go to a consulate.

 

This is bad news. My tourist visa is about to expire and I was counting on the automatic extension. My new school is still preparing my new Non-B paperwork. I also now need stamps on my degrees which I didn't before, which I can't get with the US Embassy still closed.

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

My last two Non-B's for teaching over the past two years have been converted from tourist visas, without having to leave the country and go to a consulate.

 

This is bad news. My tourist visa is about to expire and I was counting on the automatic extension. My new school is still preparing my new Non-B paperwork. I also now need stamps on my degrees which I didn't before, which I can't get with the US Embassy still closed.

You should still try, in case your situation is different in some way.

 

I know it's a minor complaint compared to what some people have faced with COVID, but it would be really helpful if the government made an exception/amendment. 

 

There must be other people who are stuck in a work or study situation that would have previously been able to just pop down to the border to get that extra time.  Without that facility, or with the complications that will be present once things start to open up, it makes it really hard for people who have been stuck in a transitional phase when COVID hit.

 

I don't really want to end up having to do something like getting a health certificate, some sort of insurance, then quarantine for two weeks potentially on both sides of the border.  But there is little choice.  (Unless they supervise quick out-in border runs and don't hold them to the same standards as fresh off the boat immigrants.)

 

Perhaps if several schools find themselves in this situation they could appeal to the government and they might allow teachers to go from COVID extension to work visa.

[ANDREW999]

Im on similar situation. Here on SETV since late december, planning to go to Laos for non B during late march, but I got stuck here with my italian passport (we were the first ones to be imposed with quarantine upon departure and arrival, and agencies refused to drive me to Vientianne as, they claimed, I would be rejected with my passport). Got covid extension until April 25. Now my school is redoing papers to try to change to non b here.

 

So this might mean bad  news to me. I will soon find out wther IO in Pathum Thani operates in a different way or not.

 

Thanks for bringing me back to reality

[Geeyore]

I don't have answer for original poster, but somewhat similar situation.

 

Here on education visa expiring in a few weeks. Went to CW to ask what to do. 90 day report no problem, they said I could do it right then and there (I'll do this week).

 

But the visa itself is problematic. I (1) have many paid hours left at my school, (2) was told I'd have to leave Thailand to extend education visa (and why an extension would be possible), and (3) was told I could go back to tourist visa by leaving country (border run). I noted to the IO that it's not possible to leave and come back at this time. She responded that "you have until July 31."

 

Honestly I didn't have much confidence in what I was told, and my basic premise is that there's also uncertainty at Immigration about these non-standard conditions that many of us face.

 

I don't expect any certain answers, but thought I'd post this for others to consider.

 

Right now I'm just sitting tight with the automatic extension, and I'll revisit it when/if things seem clearer.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Geeyore

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Got back from Samut Prakan immigration earlier. Just trying to get my TM30 done. IO made a big stink about the condo owner's tabien baan. We were there a few hours waiting for it to get straightened out.

 

Wife had a little chat with the IO. My tourist visa just expired. She confirmed that I'm ok until the end of July. She mentioned that I just signed my teaching contract. The IO said oh, now that I did the TM30, should be easy to get my visa. Hehe. Maybe promising, but we'll see.

[BangkokReady]

28 minutes ago, Geeyore said:

I noted to the IO that it's not possible to leave and come back at this time. She responded that "you have until July 31."

I was told similar.  "Just wait until 31st July and you can leave and come back."

 

Obviously it's not going to be that simple.

 

It really sucks that they essentially have customary immigration procedures that involve being able to pop down to the border and out-n-in the same day, but they aren't doing anything to address this now that that facility is not available.

[Mulambana]

I think this is what is happenng. 

1. Tourist visa (a "permission to stay" with an entry with Tourist visa/visa exempt) can be changed to a variety of different types of visa inside Thailand. One example most people are familiar with is to change to Non-O for the purpose of retirement. 

2. However, a change cannot be done beyond the permission of stay date. (already in overstay).

3. In the first round any tourist wanted to stay beyond their permission of stay had to get an emabssy letter to get an extension. I don't know why the OP did not get a regular extension of his tourist visa/visa exempt. May be he has already availed the extension.

4. In the second round Thai immigration did a blanket extension of of all visa/visa exempt/extensions up to July 31 as more than 50,000 Chinese tourists were trapped in Thailand.

5. Now the immigration says if the OP had not availed the embassy letter extension (NO 3), they could have changed it but they could not now becuase he had already availed the embassy letter extension (NO 3). 

6. Basically he is trapped and now chant change. He may try to contact an agent and see if they could do something. 

OP can correct me if my understanding is wrong.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Mulambana

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, Mulambana said:

2. However, a change cannot be done beyond the permission of stay date. (already in overstay).

He is not on an a overstay. He is on the "automatic extension".

16 minutes ago, Mulambana said:

5. Now the immigration says if the OP had not availed the embassy letter extension (NO 3), they could have changed it but they could not now becuase he had already availed the embassy letter extension (NO 3). 

That was a one off extension for most people and when they issued the ministerial order on April 7th the embassies stopped issuing the letters.

Immigration is not recognizing the extensions with a embassy letter or the "automatic extension" as an extension of the original entry from a visa.

[NorthernRyland]

What they should do is extend our visa by 7 days after the July 31st date so we can resume what we would have done before the emergency order. My visa like many others is going to expire while I wait until the borders reopen but if I have one week at least I can get my final entry. Basically since they suspended immigration they should have suspended visa dates elapsing.

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, Mulambana said:

5. Now the immigration says if the OP had not availed the embassy letter extension (NO 3), they could have changed it but they could not now becuase he had already availed the embassy letter extension (NO 3).

It's all quite vague.  I had a Thai person with me so maybe they explained a little better to them.  I was a little in shock when I heard the news.

 

The first time I went, the IO seemed to say that if I had come on X date (with 15+ days left before the end of the first visa amnesty 30th April, but with less than 15 days left on my visa, which I had already extended once) then she would have given it to me.  But she didn't give me the visa, so I'll never know how truthful that was.  It's possible that it was a face saving maneuver.

 

The second time I went, my visa had expired, but I had more than 15 days left on both the embassy letter extension (which I had applied for before the visa amnesty had ended but before the new date of 31st July had been announced) and, obviously, the current visa amnesty.

 

They were talking about "not being able to change visa on COVID extension", but also saying that it had to be done within the time of the tourist visa while pointing to the tourist visa stamp, I'm sure they said that.

 

It seems kind of strange that they would allow the visa amnesty to count, but not an embassy letter extension, since both are emergency extensions related to COVID, but then the visa amnesty does not put a new stamp in your passport.  I foolishly thought the embassy letter would be more likely to be allowed as there was a stamp saying "your stay is extended to X date".

 

I'll have to wait until we either get closer to the end of the amnesty and the government hopefully starts thinking about what to do next, or the borders start opening and something can be done there.

 

Either way it seems I am stuck.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, genericptr said:

What they should do is extend our visa by 7 days after the July 31st date so we can resume what we would have done before the emergency order.

Nothing to say the borders won't open before July 31st, or the amnesty may be extended again.

No point dwelling on what may or may not be the situation in 3 months time.

In hindsight, would you rather be in Thailand or back in your home Country at this present moment.

 

1 hour ago, genericptr said:

My visa like many others is going to expire while I wait until the borders reopen but if I have one week at least I can get my final entry. Basically since they suspended immigration they should have suspended visa dates elapsing.

Thai Immigration have no control or say in the issuing or validity of Visas.

The Thai Embassies/Consulates are regulated by the MFA.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, genericptr said:

What they should do is extend our visa by 7 days after the July 31st date so we can resume what we would have done before the emergency order.

I think the best course of action is simply to make an amendment allowing people to do anything they previously had to hop the border to do from within Thailand.  Change visa, activate new entry, etc.

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

The first time I went, the IO seemed to say that if I had come on X date (with 15+ days left before the end of the first visa amnesty 30th April, but with less than 15 days left on my visa, which I had already extended once) then she would have given it to me.  But she didn't give me the visa, so I'll never know how truthful that was.  It's possible that it was a face saving maneuver.

FOR WORKING AS TEACHER (NON-B) DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED MORE THAN 15 DAYS BEFORE VISA EXPIRATION IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION FOR 90 DAYS 

https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323286232.pdf

 

Quote

Agency took so long getting work visa paperwork done that I didn't get to the immigration office until after my tourist visa expired (they assumed visa run was possible so took their time).

They created your problem.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

12 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

FOR WORKING AS TEACHER (NON-B) DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED MORE THAN 15 DAYS BEFORE VISA EXPIRATION

But if we now all have a visa extended to July 31st, there should be plenty of time to do the Non-B. Now I just need my embassy to open.

[Tanoshi]

They haven't extended Visas. Visas cannot be extended.

[JackThompson]

14 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I think the best course of action is simply to make an amendment allowing people to do anything they previously had to hop the border to do from within Thailand.  Change visa, activate new entry, etc.

Why would they do that?  Many Immigration-officials actively-hate our using Visas (ME Non-Os, etc), border-bounces, etc - to avoid running their gauntlet. 

 

Looks like they are treating embassy-letter extensions the same as "7 days to leave the country" stamps - useless for anything except time to get out. 

 

The amnesty case - w/o other stamps - is unclear.  At least one person on an annual extension was able to apply late - citing the anmensty - and even got extra time on their next extension (start-date of the year was date of application).  But, I would not encourage anyone to count on that in the future.

Edited May 6, 2020 by JackThompson

[BangkokReady]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Why would they do that?

I mean for people who are/were about to begin working, studying or have some sort of long-term multiple entry visa, but have been trapped in Thailand and are unable to make the quite typical "visa run" required for the next step in their bureaucratic journey.

 

Obviously, it is in Thailand's interest to accommodate these types of people, since it brings them workers, students and long-term semi-tourists.  All of which should be of some help to the Thai economy.

Edited May 6, 2020 by BangkokReady

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

I mean for people who are/were about to begin working, studying or have some sort of long-term multiple entry visa, but have been trapped in Thailand and are unable to make the quite typical "visa run" required for the next step in their bureaucratic journey.

 

Obviously, it is in Thailand's interest to accommodate these types of people, since it brings them workers, students and long-term semi-tourists.  All of which should be of some help to the Thai economy.

From an economics angle, I agree wholeheartedly.  I have written many posts on this topic.

 

But, I was talking about immigration's perspective.  They don't seem to care about the economy - just what policy maximizes the flow of envelopes.  If 100K+ Thais need to be made-poor, to impose a policy that generates more envelopes, they will adopt that policy.  In fact, they have done exactly that, with no explanation of how those policy-changes benefitted the country in any way what so ever.

 

Keep in mind how Immigration handled the initial covid-extension system, which was 30 days w/o any letter for tourist-entries, and letters only required for others (per the text of the order).  They insisted on the letter for tourists, added more conditions at some offices (bring your landlord, etc), and used "under consideration" stamps to make it a 2-visit process - dimaetrically opposing the goal of NOT forcing group-gatherings.  It was the "crowd-picture" results, that pushed the cabinet to overrule immigration, with the "visa amnesty."

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

On 5/6/2020 at 6:26 PM, BangkokReady said:

it is in Thailand's interest to accommodate these types of people, since it brings them workers

I'm just trying to "improve the future for Thai children", the words of an RTP officer I became acquainted with at the last school I taught at.

 

In fact, let's just say that somebody's already doing that, and will be paid at the end of the month regardless. It wouldn't be terribly different than the last few schools they taught at, where the paperwork wasn't complete until 4-5 months into the job. ????

[Shoni]

Im in the same situation. I had a tourist visa and now im on the automatic extention visa, i didnt go to the immigration with any letter from my embassy. 

 

Anyone who had this situation and was able to convert it to a non-b inside the country?