Easing of confusion...

[connda]

14 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Stay safe, wear a mask.  And if you choose not to, which IS your choice, please stay far away from my friends and family.

It's really your friends and family responsibility to self-isolate if you all are so fearful of getting the virus.
It's not our responsibility of isolate ourselves from ya'll nor wear masks in order to make you feel safe.  If you don't feel safe - shelter in place.  The rest of us will get on with our lives.  It a flu. Treat it as such and move on.

[timendres]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

Quote

You can get a haircut but not a massage. 

 

You're absolutely right that is nonsensical. 

 

13 hours ago, robblok said:

You can get a haircut but not a massage.  (massage is far more body to body contact I dont see them massaging with a plastic face mask like the barbers do)

 

Body to body contact of the type found in a massage does not spread the virus. The masseuses wear a face mask and disinfect their hands. The massage recipient disinfects his hands. No scientist has yet found that rubbing a neck, shoulder, back, or leg has led to a virus spreading event. Massage is one of the safest things you can do in the pandemic.

 

The problem I see is exemplified by the place I get my massage. They have a bed with a pillow. Either my face is in that pillow, or you remove it and my face is on the bed. As were so many others' faces before me. It may be possible to mitigate this issue with proper management of the coverings and such, but I would never expect the place I go to do it properly, which is why I stopped going back in January. Compare this with a haircut, which I had today. No facial contact, masks on, all equipment rubbed down with alcohol between cuts, distance between customers, no queue.

 

I seriously miss my massages!!!! But I stopped before any restrictions, and will not return until I feel the risk is lower. I do not morbidly fear this virus. In fact I expect I will get it eventually. But I am not in any hurry, since I am not in the lowest risk group.

 

All of that said, I do think that having outcall massage in my room is a reasonable alternative, as that environment is much more controlled, and if the masseuse wears a mask and properly washes before the massage, the risks should be minimal.

[timendres]

5 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't see a difference between having a meal with a beer, and having a meal without a beer.

 

What you don't seem to understand is that it has nothing to do with the beer (or any other alcoholic beverage) itself. It's the gathering together that usually happens when people drink.  Alcohol is a social beverage by nature, and it's the social gatherings that this law is trying to prevent. Unfortunately, the sit-alone-in-the-dark drinker gets dinged by this law too.

 

Playing guitar is also a very social activity that often draws groups of people together. Time to ban those.

You would have done better with the simple "drunk people do stupid sh_1t". That would be the only argument that makes any sense.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

This is from 2003 movie. A lot of the same buzzwords 

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

5 hours ago, connda said:

It's really your friends and family responsibility to self-isolate if you all are so fearful of getting the virus.
It's not our responsibility of isolate ourselves from ya'll nor wear masks in order to make you feel safe.  If you don't feel safe - shelter in place.  The rest of us will get on with our lives.  It a flu. Treat it as such and move on.

 

I continue to be amazed at the remarkable stupidity shown by some people.

No matter how many times they are told that sheltering-in-place is to protect OTHER PEOPLE, not just to protect the self, the total self-centered thinking they display continues to feed into their selfishness.

All you can think about is 'me-me-me,' like some 6 year old child who is unaware that his actions affect those around him, as if it's your God-given right.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn't freedom, it's adolescence.

It's time you grew up and started thinking about the people around you instead of just yourself.

 

5 hours ago, timendres said:

 

Playing guitar is also a very social activity that often draws groups of people together. Time to ban those.

You would have done better with the simple "drunk people do stupid sh_1t". That would be the only argument that makes any sense.

 

You would have done better to remain silent, "rather than speak and remove all doubt."

Groups getting together to do anything (including playing guitar,) have been a no-no all along.

Were you honestly unaware of this? Despite it being repeated again and again in virtually every Media?

 

 

[deej]

11 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

What you don't seem to understand is that it has nothing to do with the beer (or any other alcoholic beverage) itself. It's the gathering together that usually happens when people drink.  Alcohol is a social beverage by nature, and it's the social gatherings that this law is trying to prevent. Unfortunately, the sit-alone-in-the-dark drinker gets dinged by this law too.

I beg to disagree????

May i ask the following.

Is your above wowser view .any different to the likes of you

having a coffee .slurpee. or water  Etc Etc whilst dinning. then me being served Alcohol.   say at  your Au De Fer Garden eatery ???

Providing   the social distancing are in place and from my experience.s  since last Sunday they have been done at my eatery.s .

Therefore being served any form. of Alcohol at any Eatery  puts #No  One # in any danger of catching Covid 19 or Social Gatherings being formed providing the Social Distancing  is enforced by the eatery

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by deej

[Dante99]

People who use alcohol should be quarantined permanately everywhere in the world.  Then the rest of us would no longer have to support them with medical costs, insurance costs, and social and job related damages.

 

Paying for these damage causers is as bad as paying taxes to support the wealthy.

 

And don't try to tell me it is only a few problem drinkers.  Put 'em all in the slammer just like we all got locked down.  Then we can forget about all this petty stuff about where, when and how it is sold, people just going on and on about it, really what kind of people are they?

[faraday]

7 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

People who use alcohol should be quarantined permanately everywhere in the world.  Then the rest of us would no longer have to support them with medical costs, insurance costs, and social and job related damages.

 

Paying for these damage causers is as bad as paying taxes to support the wealthy.

 

And don't try to tell me it is only a few problem drinkers.  Put 'em all in the slammer just like we all got locked down.  Then we can forget about all this petty stuff about where, when and how it is sold, people just going on and on about it, really what kind of people are they?

You ever read that book called 'Inferno'?

555!

[deej]

4 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

People who use alcohol should be quarantined permanately everywhere in the world.  Then the rest of us would no longer have to support them with medical costs, insurance costs, and social and job related damages.

 

Paying for these damage causers is as bad as paying taxes to support the wealthy.

 

And don't try to tell me it is only a few problem drinkers.  Put 'em all in the slammer just like we all got locked down.  Then we can forget about all this petty stuff about where, when and how it is sold, people just going on and on about it, really what kind of people are they?

Thks for your view

Perhaps North Korea looks a better living  proposition for you to reside in . then Thailand

[FolkGuitar]

45 minutes ago, deej said:

I beg

 

Please feel free to beg all you wish to. It suits you.

I'll try once again; what you don't seem to understand is that it has nothing to do with the beer (or any other alcoholic beverage) itself. 

If you can't understand what is written, get someone to help you with the big words.

 

One thing this current crisis has done, is shown us the remarkably large number of people with serious drinking problems. I understand that you can't admit that to yourself, but it's quite obvious to those who read what you write.  Defend your limitations, and sure enough, you own them!

Please... take your problems elsewhere. If you can't abide by local rules, go where the rules are that you do like. Don't insist that the rules change for you.

[FolkGuitar]

15 minutes ago, deej said:

Thks for your view

Perhaps North Korea looks a better living  proposition for you to reside in . then Thailand

 

Actually, he's the one comfortable with what is going on right now.

You are the one objecting to it.

Perhaps it should be YOU that looks for a different place to live. Makes far more sense.

We are quite comfortable with abiding by Thailand's rules.

[deej]

30 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Actually, he's the one comfortable with what is going on right now.

You are the one objecting to it.

Perhaps it should be YOU that looks for a different place to live. Makes far more sense.

We are quite comfortable with abiding by Thailand's rules.

I clearly or you are blind thk him for his view and gave him a alternative which he may take.   Up To Him

You have cleverly avoided my  question

What is the Difference between a Coffee drinker etc etc  to a Alcolhol drinker being served at the same eatery estabalishment with the Social distancing being enforced  

BTW

I have abided by the new  laws that have been put in place since last Sunday 

no bark off my shins  

Its just my view that the Alcohol ban on being served at Eatery.s etc etc 

is not a wise one for many valid reasons

[BritManToo]

55 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

People who use alcohol should be quarantined permanately everywhere in the world.  Then the rest of us would no longer have to support them with medical costs, insurance costs, and social and job related damages.

What about people who overeat and don't exercise?

[FolkGuitar]

7 minutes ago, deej said:

I have abided by the new  laws that have been put in place since last Sunday 

 

Right... Except for bragging to us all about how you've been buying alcohol from you local Mom&Pop shop in defiance of the laws since they have been in place. Did you squirrel away enough to cover you for the next few days? Protect your stash just like any alcoholic?

Please explain why we should believe that you have been in compliance, when you've already told us that you have not!

Good Lord! At least keep your stories straight!  It must be difficult through an alkie's fog.

[Dante99]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What about people who overeat and don't exercise?

That is a different thread but yes they need to pay a price for their indulgence.  I am not sure they need to be quarantined.  I need more research on that one.????

[Trujillo]

"Either my face is in that pillow, or you remove it and my face is on the bed. As were so many others' faces before me."

 

Literally all massage places have towels that are placed on the pillows and are washed regularly after each customer. I have been having massages here for decades and it's always the same protocol. 

If you are so scared of something like this, you should never go out at all. Did the lady who checked your temperature clean her hand before she put the sticker on your shirt? Should you touch the sticker to take it off or wait and use tweezers? 

Who touched that box of cereal at the shop before you? Is my money clean enough? Oi!

 

This is what happens when you have a climate of alarm. Everything is suspect; everyone is infected; we can die if we get this. 

 

When you see people wearing masks riding on motorbikes and inside cars, you know the insanity has more infested the public than any virus could. 

 

[Logosone]

8 hours ago, timendres said:

 

The problem I see is exemplified by the place I get my massage. They have a bed with a pillow. Either my face is in that pillow, or you remove it and my face is on the bed. As were so many others' faces before me. It may be possible to mitigate this issue with proper management of the coverings and such, but I would never expect the place I go to do it properly, which is why I stopped going back in January. Compare this with a haircut, which I had today. No facial contact, masks on, all equipment rubbed down with alcohol between cuts, distance between customers, no queue.

 

I seriously miss my massages!!!! But I stopped before any restrictions, and will not return until I feel the risk is lower. I do not morbidly fear this virus. In fact I expect I will get it eventually. But I am not in any hurry, since I am not in the lowest risk group.

 

All of that said, I do think that having outcall massage in my room is a reasonable alternative, as that environment is much more controlled, and if the masseuse wears a mask and properly washes before the massage, the risks should be minimal.

Well, pillows are washed at a temperature that kills the virus. The massage table would be disinfected daily.

 

Of course masseuses now also wear face masks and the bed et all would be disinfected. And I don't know what massages you go to, but I never had a massage with "facial contact".

 

I expect massages to be perfectly safe. At least as safe as haircuts.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Logosone said:

Of course masseuses now also wear face masks and the bed et all would be disinfected. And I don't know what massages you go to, but I never had a massage with "facial contact".

Not face to face anyway.

[Rimmer]

A baiting post leading into personal attack / bickering have been removed

[connda]

5 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

I continue to be amazed at the remarkable stupidity shown by some people.

No matter how many times they are told that sheltering-in-place is to protect OTHER PEOPLE, not just to protect the self, the total self-centered thinking they display continues to feed into their selfishness.

Actually, in a world that hasn't gone insane, the virus like all other viruses would spread thought the population until 60% to 70% are infected at which point herd-immunity is developed which protects the most vulnerable of the population.  Those "most vulnerable" should shelter in place.  Everyone else should go about their business as usual.
What is 'selfish' are those who demand that everyone else in the world to be 'locked down' in order to ameliorate their own fear of contracting the virus and dying. 
The young are virtually all asymptomatic; healthy adults are generally asymptomatic or develop mild symptoms; at risk populations are the lion's share of the mortality - so, you quarantine the "at risk population."

My advice to those demanding that everyone be locked up because they are afraid?  Stop being selfish, and look at your life and determine why you are so fearful - and then take step to get your life together.  I.e., get off your knees, stand up, and live.

[timendres]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

Well, pillows are washed at a temperature that kills the virus. The massage table would be disinfected daily.

How does that help me when I get my massage directly after the previous infected client?

[timendres]

6 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

You would have done better to remain silent, "rather than speak and remove all doubt."

Groups getting together to do anything (including playing guitar,) have been a no-no all along.

Were you honestly unaware of this? Despite it being repeated again and again in virtually every Media?

 

I was simply responding to your nonsensical insistence that alcohol would cause people to congregate, and this was the reason it needed to be banned. Apparently the analogy was too complicated.

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, connda said:

What is 'selfish' are those who demand that everyone else in the world to be 'locked down' in order to ameliorate their own fear of contracting the virus and dying.

 

In case you haven't noticed, it's the Government telling people to isolate themselves, and the majority of the population, not just a handful of odd people.

YOU are in the minority.

In a 'society,' the good of the majority is what counts, not what YOU want. Suck it up.

Community rules, not the individual. If you want things to be YOUR way, leave the community.

It really is that simple. Go to Sweden. You can do what ever you want then.

 

18 minutes ago, timendres said:

 

I was simply responding to your nonsensical insistence that alcohol would cause people to congregate, and this was the reason it needed to be banned. Apparently the analogy was too complicated.

 

Sorry, but it's not 'my' insistence that alcohol would cause people to congregate. It's the Government's insistence that alcohol would cause people to congregate, and this was the reason it needed to be banned. Are you able to see the difference?

Apparently this was either too complicated for you, or you just feel the need to blame someone. No problem. Take your best shot.  LOL!

[steelepulse]

Would be nice if the government came out and said no eating of som tom as has been the norm for eons.  What do you propose to do about all the people congregating folkguitar.  Guaranteed there are more people sitting around eating som tom in a group all over Thailand then there are people in park wanting to bs with a couple friends.

[Logosone]

45 minutes ago, timendres said:

How does that help me when I get my massage directly after the previous infected client?

They put different towels on the pillow, if they don't change the pillow outright, they most likely disinfect each table after use. Should be fine.

[Bill97]

So many hung up about alcohol,  find lives for yourselves.

 

can’t live without booze, no worries you are not alive anyway 

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, steelepulse said:

Would be nice if the government came out and said no eating of som tom as has been the norm for eons.  What do you propose to do about all the people congregating folkguitar.  Guaranteed there are more people sitting around eating som tom in a group all over Thailand then there are people in park wanting to bs with a couple friends.

 

What do 'I' propose to do about all the people congregating?

What a foolish question!

'I' don't propose to do anything about it. 

If you want to ask if 'I' will congregate in groups, infringing upon their safety, the answer is 'no.'

 

 

[Logosone]

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

In case you haven't noticed, it's the Government telling people to isolate themselves, and the majority of the population, not just a handful of odd people.

YOU are in the minority.

In a 'society,' the good of the majority is what counts, not what YOU want. Suck it up.

Community rules, not the individual. If you want things to be YOUR way, leave the community.

It really is that simple. Go to Sweden. You can do what ever you want then.

 

Yes, that's why the Thais in the "Community" keep 5 dogs, play loud music all day long and burn their garbage and run power tools non-stop, its not what THEY want, it's for the good of the community. Lol.

 

Spare us all this Community garbage, no-one's buying it.

[deej]

With my experiencing a beer or two. ???? today  at a local Thai eatery in the Maerim District. perhaps the alcohol ban on being served has  ran its course. easing all the confusion????

[Trujillo]

I oft times imagine that the ones who are the most self righteous about locking down are the retirees here who are over 65 and have some problems with their health.

If I were in that group I'd probably be slightly more concerned than those who are younger and healthy. 

 

I do all the things the government asks me to do, even though I think most of these measures are ludicrous. I wear a mask when I am required to, which is on private property such as strip malls and shops. I try to stay in the "lines" and "boxes" on the ground to keep spaced from people, even though this has no basis in science and is pretty much a farce. But I play along. 

 

I do admit to feeling frustrated that the policies so far have been ill thought out and are inconsistent, thus this thread. 

 

I think what Connda said was pretty spot on: "What is 'selfish' are those who demand that everyone else in the world to be 'locked down' in order to ameliorate their own fear of contracting the virus and dying."

 

As he points out, we should be and ought to have been protecting those at risk. We know which group is at risk yet we take measures that target every other group as well. I can see that in the beginning, when we were getting space and erroneous information from China, a general, blanket solution was the first reaction, but soon we became aware of the nature of the virus and it's most susceptible targets. Unfortunately, national governments have a very hard time backtracking once they stick their necks out with "regulations for the well-being of citizens."

 

This concern for our safety here in Thailand is also pretty farcical when you look at the routine and accelerating illegal burning in the north each year. A government that turns a blind eye to this and does not even make available N95 masks for citizens does not instill confidence in their collective motive. 

 

On topic, I was told at a coffee shop that I can't have a proper mug for the coffee and that (because of the Wuhan virus) I had to drink from a paper cup. That was fine. But then they brought out the sandwich on a porcelain plate, which seemed to me to be contradictory; what's the difference between a plate and a cup?