Malaria drug touted by Trump for coronavirus fails another test

[Crazy Alex]

Just now, johnnybangkok said:

It must great to have everything so clearly black and white. Makes life easier and requires less thought. 

Feel free to tell me how I am wrong. Do you think the Biden campaign is thinking a lot about winning? Yes or no?

[Chomper Higgot]

25 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Much of life is about winning or losing. That's the way it is. Not everyone buys into the "everyone gets a trophy!" mentality. So yes, it's often about winning- especially when it's about defeating liberalism.

Much of life is about cooperation and giving in order to get.

 

You’ll not defeat ‘liberalism’.

[Crazy Alex]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Much of life is about cooperation and giving in order to get.

 

You’ll not defeat ‘liberalism’.

True and true.

[Orton Rd]

On 5/12/2020 at 7:35 PM, WalkingOrders said:

Ah man....it's a drug being tested, but you know who said it had promise...so you know how it goes... they have to beat it to death. If he wore a pair of Adidas tomorrow they would all hate adidas. Same goes for anything. If he said he thought paris was a beautiful city they would boycott Paris. They are all insane. 

But the Trump haters would be taking it no problems if they came down with the virus and were offered the tripple treatment, he was right.

Triple-drug combo of anti-malaria pill hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and ZINC improved coronavirus patients' chances of being discharged and cut death risk by almost 50%, study finds

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8309337/Zinc-hydroxychloroquine-effective-COVID-19-patients-study.html

Edited May 13, 2020 by Orton Rd

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, Mick501 said:

If your campaign to change the constitution so that the team who throws the biggest tantrum wins, Dems will be unbeatable.

No way!  No one can beat Trump for tantrums.

[heybruce]

27 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

But the Trump haters would be taking it no problems if they came down with the virus and were offered the tripple treatment, he was right.

Triple-drug combo of anti-malaria pill hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and ZINC improved coronavirus patients' chances of being discharged and cut death risk by almost 50%, study finds

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8309337/Zinc-hydroxychloroquine-effective-COVID-19-patients-study.html

"The team, from New York University Grossman School of Medicine, says the findings are encouraging but that more studies, including a randomized clinical trial, are needed."

 

Read the article.  There was no control group.  The article says that the 50% reduction in death rate was from comparing the triple drug combination to the two drug combination treatment.  It has no information about how the use of the drugs increases survival for those who were not part of the study.

[Crazy Alex]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

"The team, from New York University Grossman School of Medicine, says the findings are encouraging but that more studies, including a randomized clinical trial, are needed."

 

Read the article.  There was no control group.  The article says that the 50% reduction in death rate was from comparing the triple drug combination to the two drug combination treatment.  It has no information about how the use of the drugs increases survival for those who were not part of the study.

So the studies you cite don't call for more studies?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

So the studies you cite don't call for more studies?

Orton Rd seemed to think this study showed that the drug combination worked.  I pointed out that it didn't.

[Tug]

There’s a really funney song on utube if anybody wants to look it up it’s called the concotor kinda helps me keep sane in thease trying days to enjoy some comedy 

[rabas]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

"The team, from New York University Grossman School of Medicine, says the findings are encouraging but that more studies, including a randomized clinical trial, are needed."

 

Read the article.  There was no control group.  The article says that the 50% reduction in death rate was from comparing the triple drug combination to the two drug combination treatment.  It has no information about how the use of the drugs increases survival for those who were not part of the study.

Read the study.

 

"In univariate analyses, zinc sulfate increased the frequency of patients being discharged home, and decreased the need for ventilation, admission to the ICU, and mortality or transfer to hospice for patients who were never admitted to the ICU. After adjusting for the time at which zinc sulfate was added to our protocol, an increased frequency of being discharged home (OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.12-2.09) reduction in mortality or transfer to hospice remained significant (OR 0.449, 95% CI 0.271-0.744). Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19.''

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

 

That means they now have good in vivo evidence to support 10+ years of scientific research, in vitro studies, and animal studies showing the same thing.

 

There are a few zinc + chloroquine studies under way. One focused on zinc + low level chloroquine as a prophylactic for medical personnel. Chloroquine was administered at the same level used for malaria prevention, one or two tablets/week.

 

Zinc, vitamins C and D, and even Tamiflu are often more effective when used early.

 

[johnnybangkok]

11 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Feel free to tell me how I am wrong. Do you think the Biden campaign is thinking a lot about winning? Yes or no?

You see; black and white.

When trying to make your point, you come up with some strawman argument that has nothing to do with anything other than to make your point.

As has already been pointed out to you, life is all about making compromises and trying to see things from the other person point of view; something Trump and his supporters are sorely lacking.

ALL previous US administrations for the last 200 years sought co-operation 'accross the aisle' as they knew it was the only way to get things done. Things started to disintegrate with the GOP and Obama with John Boehner, famously offering his plans for Obama’s agenda as “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.” This was then backed up by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell with “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” This set the tone for all politics thereafter.

This single minded, uncompromising 'winner takes all' stance has been at the root of all problems in American politics today and is massively exagerated by Trump and of course his supporters (which you have demostrated quite nicely thank you). 

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by johnnybangkok

[rabas]

Absolutely false. Good time watch this gripping graphic about partisan divide again. Keep your eye on the ball(s).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEczkhfLwqM

Original source: google "Partisan divide business insider"

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by rabas

[stevenl]

44 minutes ago, rabas said:

Read the study.

 

"In univariate analyses, zinc sulfate increased the frequency of patients being discharged home, and decreased the need for ventilation, admission to the ICU, and mortality or transfer to hospice for patients who were never admitted to the ICU. After adjusting for the time at which zinc sulfate was added to our protocol, an increased frequency of being discharged home (OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.12-2.09) reduction in mortality or transfer to hospice remained significant (OR 0.449, 95% CI 0.271-0.744). Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19.''

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

 

That means they now have good in vivo evidence to support 10+ years of scientific research, in vitro studies, and animal studies showing the same thing.

 

There are a few zinc + chloroquine studies under way. One focused on zinc + low level chloroquine as a prophylactic for medical personnel. Chloroquine was administered at the same level used for malaria prevention, one or two tablets/week.

 

Zinc, vitamins C and D, and even Tamiflu are often more effective when used early.

 

In the last sentence, when used early, lies the real life problem.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

Read the study.

 

"In univariate analyses, zinc sulfate increased the frequency of patients being discharged home, and decreased the need for ventilation, admission to the ICU, and mortality or transfer to hospice for patients who were never admitted to the ICU. After adjusting for the time at which zinc sulfate was added to our protocol, an increased frequency of being discharged home (OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.12-2.09) reduction in mortality or transfer to hospice remained significant (OR 0.449, 95% CI 0.271-0.744). Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19.''

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

 

That means they now have good in vivo evidence to support 10+ years of scientific research, in vitro studies, and animal studies showing the same thing.

 

There are a few zinc + chloroquine studies under way. One focused on zinc + low level chloroquine as a prophylactic for medical personnel. Chloroquine was administered at the same level used for malaria prevention, one or two tablets/week.

 

Zinc, vitamins C and D, and even Tamiflu are often more effective when used early.

 

Read the post I was replying to.  That is not the study that my reply was directed at. 

 

Your reference is a pre-print that hasn't been reviewed and doesn't provide any study details. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by heybruce

[rabas]

48 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Read the post I was replying to.  That is not the study that my reply was directed at. 

 

Your reference is a pre-print that hasn't been reviewed and doesn't provide any study details. 

I did! That's where I got the link. It's one and the same study from his post except you didn't bother to read it. If you did, you would see I proved the link to the actual study in the article.

 

Orton's link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8309337/Zinc-hydroxychloroquine-effective-COVID-19-patients-study.html

 

Actual study referred to in Orton's link:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

 

You also say it does not provide details, but details are in the PDF file, which you also didn't read.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full.pdf

 

It's a good study for what is intended. As I had said, it is initial evidence supporting a decade of research into how chloroquine enables zinc to disable corona virus.

 

 

[heybruce]

34 minutes ago, rabas said:

I did! That's where I got the link. It's one and the same study from his post except you didn't bother to read it. If you did, you would see I proved the link to the actual study in the article.

 

Orton's link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8309337/Zinc-hydroxychloroquine-effective-COVID-19-patients-study.html

 

Actual study referred to in Orton's link:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

 

You also say it does not provide details, but details are in the PDF file, which you also didn't read.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full.pdf

 

It's a good study for what is intended. As I had said, it is initial evidence supporting a decade of research into how chloroquine enables zinc to disable corona virus.

 

 

Ok, identify in these "details" how many patients were part of the study, what was their condition when they became part of the study, and how their results compared to those of a control group that was not treated with the drug combination.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Ok, identify in these "details" how many patients were part of the study, what was their condition when they became part of the study, and how their results compared to those of a control group that was not treated with the drug combination.

932 patients.

Edited May 14, 2020 by rabas

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, rabas said:

932 patients.

Ok, I found the table showing N=411 and N=521, which I assume are the number of patients treated with and without zinc. 

 

Still nothing on the condition of those included in the study at the time experimental treatment began, and nothing on a control group.  With those limitations the paper is more a summary of available data than a study indicating efficacy.

[JetsetBkk]

10 paragraphs down...

 

On 5/8/2020 at 6:10 AM, webfact said:

"the study should not be taken to rule out either benefit or harm" for the drug, researchers said.

 

(Just for the headline readers.)