SURVEY: Thai Airways -- Save it or let it go?

[crobe]

15 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

We had the same issue with AIRCANADA.  Your solution is good but it needs a few tweaks.

Sell all but 25% of the stock that way if there is a need for assistance it is there.

Keep the current planes until things are running in the blue or the planes are no longer cost efficient.

Sell some of the real estate assets there are a lot of buildings that THAI owns that are not needed.

The management team should have minimal aviation people and more business people that know how to manage a business.

It would not be a bad idea to allow Thai staff to purchase the shares.  Then they have a reason for ensuring that the company succeeds.

My personal belief is that a company like PWC should be hired to go through the complete books as well as the day to day operations of all sections.  

your "tweaks" would make things a hell of a lot worse

 

"Sell all but 25% of the stock that way if there is a need for assistance it is there."

Then there is no incentive, they will just keep coming back for more money - they tried that with Alitalia

 

"Keep the current planes until things are running in the blue or the planes are no longer cost efficient."

No, you have to get rid of these as soon as possible, the old fleet is expensive to run and maintain, and is uncompetitive

 

"The management team should have minimal aviation people and more business people that know how to manage a business."

No, you need a good mix of aviation and business knowledge - I have lost count of the companies I have seen ruined by a management team that thinks all businesses are run the same and they do not need to know the specifics.

 

"My personal belief is that a company like PWC should be hired to go through the complete books as well as the day to day operations of all sections."

Worst suggestion of all, PWC - along with the other large accounting and advisory firms are part of the problem with many companies today as they have persuaded them to load up with debt that is unsustainable in a downturn. In my business PWC still has a horrible reputation from their work in Europe promoting PPP solutions which had to be bailed out by governments to the tune of $3.5Bn .

 

 

[Stocky]

Keep Smile, dump the rest of it

[sammieuk1]

Save it and one day it may help to drag the baht down ????

[Burma Bill]

quote (crobe):_

 

4) LCC Thai Smile to be sold off - as this mostly operates out of Don Mueang it is not even a feeder for Thai

 

Sorry, but incorrect. It is a feeder airline for Thai at Suvarnabhumi Airport (BKK). THAI SMILE does NOT operate out of Don Mueang (DMK)

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, finnsk said:

Actually a lot of countries subsidizes their old flightcompagnies, even they are not able to run a flight buisness in free competition with the younger "low" price compagnies.

 

I do not understand why taxmoney is going to be wasted in bad managed old flightcompagnies.

Yes and TG has had massive repeated injections / subsidies and look where they are now.

 

IMHO another injection of funds is a waste of money because this organization will never change unless it has a new owner who buys with the right to remove any / all past managerial staff and not required to provide free / discounted tickets, and totally new rules in place for all recruitment, plus a complete rework of their structure to reduce it to something similar to other airlines with similar routes etc.

 

None of the above will ever happen. 

 

Put the ailing misfit into bankruptcy now. 

 

 

[ChipButty]

At the moment it needs to look at it's prices in September Phuket=Manchester over 3000 Pounds

Etihad 543 pounds 

[Rancid]

Where i live, Thai is the only direct flight. Have flown AA and Scoot quite a lot lately due largely to a closer airport, however they are uncomfortable to sleep and both haven't refunded airfares due to corona. Lets be honest they are cattle trucks. A friend was booked on Thai and was refunded.

 

I've never had a bad experience with Thai and it remains the most comfortable option. By the time you add up the never ending options on the so-called low cost carriers Thai isn't much more expensive. Pleased to see they will continue and will only be flying Thai in the future. Their financial issues are something for Thailand to sort out, not me.

[lee b]

8 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

At the moment it needs to look at it's prices in September Phuket=Manchester over 3000 Pounds

Etihad 543 pounds 

Thats just a crazy amount. Anyway I would rather fly Etihad any day of the week. My last flight with Thai was coming back from Dubai to BKK, and the service was non existant. Crew were not the usual happy smiling peeps also. 

[holy cow cm]

Why do you even care or make a silly poll? For me it is the only choice of airline domestically. But seriously - get a grip and maybe play dominos or something. 

[ParkerN]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You think there'll be another election?

 

That should definitely *not* be funny...

[ParkerN]

Make Anutin the next Chairman and Tammanat the next CX. That ought to ensure it's early demise and give both a useful role in life.

[Prince77]

THAI needs a complete restructuring. This can't be done by Thai people who are limited in their actions by cultural specialties. This must be organised by foreigners with full authorization to do the needful.

[worgeordie]

After years of nepotism ,corruption and mismanagement,it's time to let Thai Airways

slip away,but they won't,just to save face they will limp along.

 

It could be turned around,that would take more money,but sensibly spent,without sticky fingers,

and someone who really knows business,preferably how to run a successful airline,who would have

full control to make decisions,and not be hindered by politicians,....but they won't give up control,

so i think, Thai Airways are F&cked.

regards worgeordie 

 

[Bob A Kneale]

2 hours ago, Virt said:

I don't get the hate towards Thai Airways.

This is Thaivisa!

[crobe]

1 hour ago, Burma Bill said:

quote (crobe):_

 

4) LCC Thai Smile to be sold off - as this mostly operates out of Don Mueang it is not even a feeder for Thai

 

Sorry, but incorrect. It is a feeder airline for Thai at Suvarnabhumi Airport (BKK). THAI SMILE does NOT operate out of Don Mueang (DMK)

Noted

[White Christmas13]

2 hours ago, Virt said:

I don't get the hate towards Thai Airways.

 

Flew with them tons of times and it's nice they are flying Copenhagen - Bangkok with no annoying between landings.

Only had 1 or two times where the service was not up to their usual service, but overall very happy to fly with them.

 

Yes you are right, it is easy for people to say they prefer other airlines

for what ever reason but I have no option to take another airline

if I want to fly nonstop Perth,Bangkok any other airline stops some

where and I can't complain about the service either. The hostesses

might not be the youngest anymore, try Qantas their hostesses look

like overweight retired schoolteachers and the service is not the best.

So I hope Thai will keep flying.

[Huckenfell]

Thai Air can once again become a top airline, but not with the present management which was a "job for the boys" appointment, a man with military background (Thai Airforce) but no business experiendce or training, so it has to fail. Bring in management from overseas, possibly Europe and give him Cart Blanche to do whatever is needed and this includes all the 'freebies' and jobs for families and Hi-So mates.

 

[Huckenfell]

6 hours ago, crobe said:

Here is the 10-point plan to save Thai

1) The government to pass a law requiring its 51% in the carrier to be sold within 3 years - prior to the next general election

2) A new management team and board of directors with experience in aviation and turnarounds to be appointed, no political appointees, no air force appointees. Strict performance criteria on new team.

3) New Thai to concentrate on long-haul international routes only (3 hours plus) - short haul intra-ASEAN routes to be sold off

4) LCC Thai Smile to be sold off - as this mostly operates out of Don Mueang it is not even a feeder for Thai

5) Catering division to be sold off

6) No free trips, discounts or other benefits for government officers or other "friends". Thai government travel procurement can receive reduced business class fares based on a commercial agreement for bulk purchase - most countries do this.

7) Reduction in workforce to benchmark against comparable airlines i.e. SIA

8 MRO investment at U-Tapao to be scrapped - Airbus already pulled out of this

9) Existing fleet sold or converted to cargo/leaseback - new efficient planes leased

10) Fares to be benchmarked and made competitive - i.e. on codeshare routes - new algorithms for capacity planning

 

 

Their only hope of survival.

 

[Huckenfell]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You think there'll be another election?

OK! OK !  The next coup then !

[OnTheGround]

They will never let the flag carrier go bankrupt and into history. Never.

The warning that they will not help again later, these words will be totally forgotten when next bail-out is needed, within 5 years.

Sad they don't want to hire international people with actual expertise and knowledge, to lead the company.

[Huckenfell]

2 hours ago, Virt said:

I don't get the hate towards Thai Airways.

 

Flew with them tons of times and it's nice they are flying Copenhagen - Bangkok with no annoying between landings.

Only had 1 or two times where the service was not up to their usual service, but overall very happy to fly with them.

 

Not a lot wrong with the airline and its cabin staff per se  but the big problem is with all stages of management.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Greg O said:

Horribly mismanaged and too many fleet types for one thing. A380's ? Ya gotta be kidding 747,777,787, A350,  320 etc...The logistics and duplication of parts and spares is completely illogical and a logistical nightmare. Nothing is common between those fleet types. It seems they will order anything (some incentives may be involved)

This is the case with just about any procurement process in this country, from buying airliners, equipment for the military, railways, down to buying textbooks for the schools.

 

There is one reason - kickbacks.

 

The tentacles of corruption get everywhere.

[soi3eddie]

Thai Airways has always given me better service than the alternatives (LHR/BKK). As a business there are so many issues causing losses. In my opinion it's more about costs and bad management than poor service or high fares. As a comparison, a flexible economy ticket with Thai for LHR-BKK-LHR in November/December was about £850 vs £1200 for Emirates. These are the reasons I choose Thai 3-5 roundtrips per year. 7 roundtrips in economy flex every 2 years gets a ROP gold card which triggers free upgrades, lounge access and much more. Thai works for me as a traveller but as an business its a dead duck. 

 

[JAG]

6 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

Then there was Hungary's flag carrier, Malev,

Gosh yes, I remember them. They were one of the cheap charlie options when I first started globetrotting to this neck of the woods; along with Air Uzbekistan, Biman Bangladesh (the aircraft interior smelt and looked like a  Curry house in Campbeltown after a particularly rough Saturday night) and of course Aeroflot - flying with the latter was about the equivalent in terms of comfort, cabin service and (perceived) risk as a trip to Berlin in a Lancaster bomber in 1944.

[RJRS1301]

37 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

 The hostesses might not be the youngest anymore, try Qantas their hostesses look like overweight retired schoolteachers and the service is not the best.

So I hope Thai will keep flying.

I was under the obviously mistaken concept that FLIGHT ATTENDANTS were trained to get you from the aircraft safely if an emergency arose, and serving food and beverage was secondary to the duties.

 

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

I was under the obviously mistaken concept that FLIGHT ATTENDANTS were trained to get you from the aircraft safely if an emergency arose, and serving food and beverage was secondary to the duties.

 

correct, that is their primary duty. 

[Clarkey611]

7 hours ago, crobe said:

Here is the 10-point plan to save Thai

1) The government to pass a law requiring its 51% in the carrier to be sold within 3 years - prior to the next general election

2) A new management team and board of directors with experience in aviation and turnarounds to be appointed, no political appointees, no air force appointees. Strict performance criteria on new team.

3) New Thai to concentrate on long-haul international routes only (3 hours plus) - short haul intra-ASEAN routes to be sold off

4) LCC Thai Smile to be sold off - as this mostly operates out of Don Mueang it is not even a feeder for Thai

5) Catering division to be sold off

6) No free trips, discounts or other benefits for government officers or other "friends". Thai government travel procurement can receive reduced business class fares based on a commercial agreement for bulk purchase - most countries do this.

7) Reduction in workforce to benchmark against comparable airlines i.e. SIA

8 MRO investment at U-Tapao to be scrapped - Airbus already pulled out of this

9) Existing fleet sold or converted to cargo/leaseback - new efficient planes leased

10) Fares to be benchmarked and made competitive - i.e. on codeshare routes - new algorithms for capacity planning

 

 

I believe it is Nok Air that flies out of Don Mueang. Thai No Smile flies out of Suvarnabhumi.

[Pilotman]

46 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

Thai Air can once again become a top airline, but not with the present management which was a "job for the boys" appointment, a man with military background (Thai Airforce) but no business experiendce or training, so it has to fail. Bring in management from overseas, possibly Europe and give him Cart Blanche to do whatever is needed and this includes all the 'freebies' and jobs for families and Hi-So mates.

 

I see that their Ops Director is a "Squadron Leader".  When I reached  that rank, many years ago, my main ground responsibilities outside of actual flying, were buying my boys their first round of drinks on a Friday evening Happy Hour and making sure that they didn't wreck the bar on Dining-In nights, well not much anyway.   No way would I have been equipped at that time to run an airline.  A Squadron yes, but not a airline business. Neither is he. 

[JusticeGB]

Thai Air should be privatised. Now even if the Minister in charge of Transport is changed he can change the MD of Thai Air. Without an experienced person in charge it will continue to lose money. It can't remain a play toy for politicians. 

 

[Pilotman]

3 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

Thai Air should be privatised. Now even if the Minister in charge of Transport is changed he can change the MD of Thai Air. Without an experienced person in charge it will continue to lose money. It can't remain a play toy for politicians. 

 

That may have been a real possibility, in theory, as the Thai government would never countenance any form of foreign ownership, but now, after this lock down, it would be impossible to achieve.  National governments are having to bail out their own airlines, or they go bust, as many will in the coming months.  Better get used to limited flights worldwide, at very high ticket prices.  Unless you pick a Chinese Airline, or one from the Middle East, backed by oil reserves.  Funny that don't you all think?