Motorbike accident - Need help!

[rosst]

On 5/11/2020 at 6:00 PM, Swiss1960 said:

Go tomorrow, take your wife for translation and tell him

- if the Thai guy has no money, HE (the rental guy) must contact the insurance company of the bike he rented to you, they will pay (that is, IF he has a proper insurance,  but that is not your problem).

- Demand your deposit and passport back, and immediately

- Inform him, that otherwise you will take a lawyer and go again to the police and report him for extortion of money and theft of your passport.

 

MAKE SURE that you CLEARLY instruct your wife to ONLY translate and NOT discuss ANYTHING ELSE with the guy.

 

Informing your Embassy comes later, once you have a police report describing the THEFT of the passport. 

 

Another example that you should NEVER leave your passport with a rental company, only a copy. There are enough rental companies that accept passport copies. Been there, done that.

Extremely good advice and you would do well to heed it. 

The critical part of the advice is the instruction to the wife to discuss nothing except the illegal holding of your passport and the rental company to get the insurance company to claim damages. 

[darrendsd]

Contact the Police officer who made the report and offer him or one of his colleagues 1000 Baht to go with you and retrieve your Passport

 

For 1000 Baht It will save a lot of time and messing around 

[darrendsd]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:12 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Just by reading the first line "three days ago I had a motorbike accident with a bigger bike" if that doesn't convince you read the second and third line. The car is a figment of your imagination, it wasn't mentioned

You don't expect most TV readers to actually read what was posted before making comment do you? ????

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Getting advice on how to handle things, from strangers on the internet ? Bad idea.

Getting proper advice from a qualified professional ? Good idea.

 

Does that include you?

[Kerryd]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Does that include you?

Yes.

If you are "adult" enough to live in a foreign country but have to go to an internet forum to ask strangers for advice, then you should be very careful about any advice given - even by me. 

He doesn't know me. You don't know me.

But if you can't tell "good" advice from "bad" advice, then you probably shouldn't be asking complete strangers in the first place.

[Road Warrior]

i have been there . bike hit me .was drunk and on drugs said medication .no licence. could not find his  insurance , went to Police said my  my fault as was in my "car fine :300 bht  but he then claimed 150,000 got good solicitor did  not speak English . conclusion did  pay --only solicitor bill 20,000 bill  

 

good luck 

[Bluetongue]

From my experience with a couple of accidents here, the who pays question has to be sorted at the time. If Somchai has no money then he has to get it from somewhere, borrow it from family whatever. If this doesn't transpire at the time then it wont happen. You should be insisting the police lock him up until the cash is stumped up. In any case probably a moot argument as this happened 4 days ago and the OP hasn't been back for an update for a while.

[evadgib]

Mine is ticking like a geiger counter...

Edited May 15, 2020 by evadgib

[Agusts]

A lot of talks about don't give your passport,  which is good advice if possible,  but not always if there is no other option. It's hard to rent a "Big" bike without leaving passport, and otherwise  they probably find a scratch and keep some of your large deposit that you left instead of your passport anyway...!

 

And in any case do you think if this rental guy just had your copy of your passport he would just let you go...!? No way, he files a report with police and they will be looking for you all over the country, plus immigration at the airports, you will be treated far worse when they find you and know you ran away and not paid and settled something like this. 

 

This is unfortunate but must deal with it and make it right. No report from OP, I hope he didn't throw that punch he was talking about.... Rented a bike in Thailand, had accident, pay up, simple really, just haggle for the best price and get a signed letter that no more liability after you paid up...

 

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, Agusts said:

A lot of talks about don't give your passport,  which is good advice if possible,  but not always if there is no other option. It's hard to rent a "Big" bike without leaving passport, and otherwise  they probably find a scratch and keep some of your large deposit that you left instead of your passport anyway...!

 

And in any case do you think if this rental guy just had your copy of your passport he would just let you go...!? No way, he files a report with police and they will be looking for you all over the country, plus immigration at the airports, you will be treated far worse when they find you and know you ran away and not paid and settled something like this. 

 

This is unfortunate but must deal with it and make it right. No report from OP, I hope he didn't throw that punch he was talking about.... Rented a bike in Thailand, had accident, pay up, simple really, just haggle for the best price and get a signed letter that no more liability after you paid up...

 

Big bikes gather dust on the parking lot when punters flatly refuse to part with their passports, & the old 'Immigration stop' routine is usually far too slow (5 days or so, if they actually bother) to be implemented in time to catch a two week millionaire (tourist) departing on time. 

HTH

[Ireland32]

You gave your passport to a motorbike shop , Are you Mad??? Maybe give them an old one or a copy but a real passport , Use your Head...

[tomauasia]

You are very silly leaving your passport this angers me. Passport is property of your country. At no time is it to leave you. Somchai gets a photo copy only. NEVER LEAVE PASSPPORT.

You are found not guilty already it's now a civil matter. Somchai must immedite return your passport and the cost of bike is between the 2 Thais. Do not become aggressive and file the police report you have safely. Only go with wife and record the conversation on TAPETALK app on phone. No video. 

Demand passport back immediately record conversation. If he refused go to police immediately and report this to the embassy after.

[Agusts]

Not sure, guys commenting here not living in tourist area I think, and not much first hand info, here in Phuket hundreds of bike rentals take passport from tens of thousands of tourists every month in high season, before covid19 madness, most tourist don't give it a second thought, and that is just for a small scooter..., all goes on as routine as it can get, 3 of them just outside my apartment. You turn up and say I don't give my passport, will just be kicked out of the queue,  next.... !

 

 

[Agusts]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Big bikes gather dust on the parking lot when punters flatly refuse to part with their passports, & the old 'Immigration stop' routine is usually far too slow (5 days or so, if they actually bother) to be implemented in time to catch a two week millionaire (tourist) departing on time. 

HTH

So you basically suggest to not leave a passport, destroy a big rental bike, and then run away as a fugitive before the 5 days that they can catch you... ! Great idea, see if you do that...

[Paul DS]

Look I can tell you having been in your situation that this is the reality:

The hire bike was in your hands at time of accident, you are responsible for its safe return.

The Police will not be interested.

The hirer has your passport and you will not get it back until money is paid.

Tough luck that you cannot get the other guy to pay, it happens all the time.

 

What to do: Get your Thai Lady to take the bike to a shop and ask how much to fix "cheap"

 

Go see the renter and not argue or get angry, remember he has your passport etc and Police will not be interested!

 

Offer him half of estimated repair costs and go from there!

 

I've lived in Thailand many years, this is not a Farang rip off, it happens all the time, the Thai or foreigner with the potential money pays, regardless of who caused the accident! 

 

(In future stay at the accident, say nothing, and get Insurance Company to come out and sort, SIGN NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, TAKE PICTURES, never let your passport or driving licence out of your hands, I have have had tugging matches with Cops, trying to get them out of my hands)

 

(Be thankful you are not being asked for money from the guy who caused the accident!)

 

Good luck!

Edited May 15, 2020 by Paul DS

[Paul DS]

21 minutes ago, Agusts said:

Not sure, guys commenting here not living in tourist area I think, and not much first hand info, here in Phuket hundreds of bike rentals take passport from tens of thousands of tourists every month in high season, before covid19 madness, most tourist don't give it a second thought, and that is just for a small scooter..., all goes on as routine as it can get, 3 of them just outside my apartment. You turn up and say I don't give my passport, will just be kicked out of the queue,  next.... !

 

 

I live in Nong Khai, previously Hua Hin,  if I need a hire car or bike, I produce a photocopy of passport etc, they just look surprised and smile, I give them back there padlock and helme, producing my own! Rental always okay.

[balo]

If you want a small scooter, and are staying for a couple of months ,maybe just better to buy a used one for 15k, sell it a couple of days before you leave and you probably saved some money compared to renting one. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by balo

[impulse]

8 hours ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

Qeustion: do you hav a thai DL or int.DL because if you don't have a valod DL to begin with the insurance will pay nothing .

 

Not true for many counties which have reciprocal agreements with Thailand.  Thais can drive in your country on a Thai DL, and you can drive in Thailand on your country's DL for a limited length of time, 90 days in my case.  All an IDP does is translate your DL information to English.  Which isn't really an issue in Thailand. 

 

But you do need a motorcycle endorsement on your DL to legally drive a scooter and be covered under any insurance.

 

Edit:  BTW, that's the scarier implication of driving a scooter without a motorcycle endorsement.  If you get injured, your NHS won't cover you because, well- you're not in your home country.  And your travel insurance probably won't cover you because you were driving without a license.  And if you think repairing a scooter is expensive, try repairing a broken body.

Edited May 15, 2020 by impulse

[Covid19Everywhere]

So the following thing happened:

 

We had a meeting with Thai accident guy and Thai motorbike rental guy at the police station.

They said I need to pay and get it back from the Thai guy.

I said i will never get it back from the Thai guy and that the money is was too much (the motorbike rental guy now came with a bill of 74.000 Baht ????????) 

I said the bill is from a friend of him and they share the profit. The damage to the bike was maybe like 7.400, not 74.000.

 

No one cared.

I insisted that the guy who made accident should pay him then.

Actually then they really made an agreement that the Thai accident guy give his bike to the rental owner and that’s how the bill is paid.

They even signed a document about this.

I was surprised and wanted my passport back. Funny thing is the police told the rental owner to give it back and he refused. He said he wanna wait. For what? I don’t know.

I insisted again, no one cared.

 

Next morning he writes me message that I need to pay everything. 

I asked what is about the bike from the other guy? He said nothing.

He threatened me that he go to a lawyer, will keep my passport and that I will get problems at the boarder. I can’t leave the country in the next days.

 

I have no <deleted> idea what to do now.

Its not even about the 74.000 Baht, it’s about my self-esteem. I never let anyone scammed me before my whole life.

 

And why I gave him my passport?

We rented a scooter before from him, he just wanted 3.000 baht deposit. 

Every place in Pai wanted a passport deposit for big bike.

And the UK lady who is owner of my House I rent she said she never had any problems before with him, I asked her before I rented the big bike.

 

Any true last advices or I just need to pay this <deleted> scammer now?

<Reported threat removed>

I hate this situation. Normally I never ever would give my passport. But I thought after all this I can trust. Lesson learned.

 

 

 

Ah yes and I contacted a lawyer, he wanted to have 20.000 for a lawyer letter outside of court.

But he said the chance for success of this is really low and if we go in front of court, it’s not worth the money.

 

The embassy said the same, I should just pay him. Really, if you think troll or don’t believe me I can post screenshots.

[scubascuba3]

Bike renter has the law on his side as you are liable. Maybe offer half. The quote maybe way too high anyway, try to get another one from someone unconnected

Edited May 16, 2020 by scubascuba3

[OneMoreFarang]

7 hours ago, Covid19Everywhere said:

So the following thing happened:

 

We had a meeting with Thai accident guy and Thai motorbike rental guy at the police station.

They said I need to pay and get it back from the Thai guy.

I said i will never get it back from the Thai guy and that the money is was too much (the motorbike rental guy now came with a bill of 74.000 Baht ????????) 

I said the bill is from a friend of him and they share the profit. The damage to the bike was maybe like 7.400, not 74.000.

 

No one cared.

I insisted that the guy who made accident should pay him then.

Actually then they really made an agreement that the Thai accident guy give his bike to the rental owner and that’s how the bill is paid.

They even signed a document about this.

I was surprised and wanted my passport back. Funny thing is the police told the rental owner to give it back and he refused. He said he wanna wait. For what? I don’t know.

I insisted again, no one cared.

 

Next morning he writes me message that I need to pay everything. 

I asked what is about the bike from the other guy? He said nothing.

He threatened me that he go to a lawyer, will keep my passport and that I will get problems at the boarder. I can’t leave the country in the next days.

 

I have no <deleted> idea what to do now.

Its not even about the 74.000 Baht, it’s about my self-esteem. I never let anyone scammed me before my whole life.

 

And why I gave him my passport?

We rented a scooter before from him, he just wanted 3.000 baht deposit. 

Every place in Pai wanted a passport deposit for big bike.

And the UK lady who is owner of my House I rent she said she never had any problems before with him, I asked her before I rented the big bike.

 

Any true last advices or I just need to pay this <deleted> scammer now?

I better want to make justice for myself and just shoot him, but guess then I will have even bigger trouble.

I hate this situation. Normally I never ever would give my passport. But I thought after all this I can trust. Lesson learned.

 

 

 

Ah yes and I contacted a lawyer, he wanted to have 20.000 for a lawyer letter outside of court.

But he said the chance for success of this is really low and if we go in front of court, it’s not worth the money.

 

The embassy said the same, I should just pay him. Really, if you think troll or don’t believe me I can post screenshots.

Thanks for the follow up. I am not really surprised.

 

I guess it will get difficult to get away without paying. So the question is how much you have to pay.

In general Thais, and not only Thais, prefer cash now and not maybe some money sometime in the future. And that's what I think you should try.

Get an estimate about the real repair cost. Which parts have to be replaced? Thai labor is cheap so 90% of the repair cost will be parts. And you should be able to google part cost. Let's say you think parts will cost 10,000THB.

Then I would go to the guy with 10,000THB cash in my hand, wave it in front of him, and tell him take it or leave it.

Be prepared to pay maybe a little more than you estimated.

And if the guy doesn't accept that then walk away. 

I guess it's a good idea to have an independent witness, maybe someone can make a video of what you offer and a possible deal. I guess the chance is pretty high this will work. He wants money, now.

 

And about getting your money back: You can try, but probably it's not worth the headache.

 

Good luck!

[time2093]

I dont think there's much else you can do OP, It sucks for sure as once you give your passport as a deposit and they keep it as ransom in Thailand your pretty much screwed if you have an accident, your fault or not. I would try with the help of your wife to talk with the motor bike owner again to see if he would budge from his extortion price of 74k and bite your pride and pay it and just right it up as an expense lesson learned as your not the first or the last person to go through this.

[19DL86]

Sorry to hear if your dilemma, but you made one crucial mistake!!  Never, ever hand your Passport over to ANYONE in Thailand.  Always get copies of all relevant pages, hand them over and counter sign.  Show them the original - but don't let it out of your grasp.  Be firm tell them the score and most times they ll back off.  As to be fair they're not too bright nor have the balls or inclination to argue.

I ve been arrested a few times and always either taken copies of my passport to the police first or got my Thai wife to do so.  Never had any issue. Same in regards to an accident.

Now the big question here is;- Was this near to where you live, or your Thai Gfs home? Has she handed over her ID to the rental Co. or Old Bill?  Are you living here or holidaying?

 

If the answers are No. No. No.  Then I d consider the cost or a new replacement passport from your Nation's embassy plus a fair bit of time, cost, hassle and faffin about.  Versus weighing in the Old Bill and/or Rental for about that much 5-10,000Bt to sort this shhht out.  Might even be able to claim these costs on you travel insurance - if you have it.

 

If you do go down this route, then travel to another city/province to report the passport lost/stolen.  So if you're in Pattaya go to Sattahip.  Phuket travel to Phang Ngan.

 

Good luck.

[Big Joke]

I have read this thread from start to finish. Why does the OP only refer to a big bike. People say 74000 baht is a rip off. Maybe he rented a Harley Davidson, unlikely in Pai. Maybe a twenty year old Suzuki were parts are unavailable. Maybe the guy on the scooter saw a bike half a kilometer away and did not realize that the OP was driving at 140KPH through a small village.. Funnily the OP says the scooter rider was serious hurt but no mention of being asked for medical costs. Photos or it's a troll (but a good one.)

[MJKT2014]

9 hours ago, Covid19Everywhere said:

want to make justice for myself and just shoot him, but guess then I will have even bigger trouble.

If you are only able to 'guess' this as an outcome then I would cut your losses while still ahead!

[SteveK]

What a surprise. Despite the (almost certainly padded) bill being settled by the person at fault giving their bike, the guy is still trying to screw you. He has an opportunity to make some cash and can't resist it.

 

At this point, it would seem you are going to have to pay someone, be it a lawyer, the embassy for a travel document, or the dirtbag himself. I would be tempted to go to the police station and see if an officer will go to his shop with you to get the passport back, failing that you'll just have to go for the cheapest option. But unless you are promising tea money I doubt they will be interested.

 

This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes people never want to go back to Thailand ever again. The guy's debt has been settled so this is extortion plain and simple. It's the best part of £2000, i.e. a huge amount to lose whilst on holiday. If it were me I would go for any option that involves not giving him a penny (report passport lost in next province and get emergency travel document). 

Edited May 17, 2020 by SteveK

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, 19DL86 said:

If you do go down this route, then travel to another city/province to report the passport lost/stolen.  So if you're in Pattaya go to Sattahip.  Phuket travel to Phang Ngan.

That is a stupid idea!

If you report to the police your passport was stolen, and you know exactly it was not stolen, you lie to the police. And you lie to the embassy when you present that police report. I am not sure about the legal consequences but for sure they don't like that.

[OneMoreFarang]

56 minutes ago, Big Joke said:

Photos or it's a troll (but a good one.)

Would you make photos? Would you publish them?

If yes then I guess you are one of those Millennials.

[19DL86]

From my many years experience here, the first price is always the best price.  The longer it goes on, the more people get involved, the higher the price goes.

 

Don't get the police involved unless you go first and pay them first.  Then they're working for you. Always always plead poverty, should it go to court you're allowed, for free a court appointed lawyer and translator. FACT!!  Been there done it, it's a recipitol agreement under The Hague Convention.

 

In my 2 court cases this always worked out a shed load cheaper than paying the police and trumped up "Compensation" claims. Free lawyers so no legal fees, as more often than not these work out more than the compo and Old Bill "tea money".  An English speaking lawyer to represent you in a Court case will be minimum 80-100,000Bt on a simple matter. 200,000B on a serious charge.  As the court system here is very slow and arduous a minor offence will take several appearance, if you fight it and plead not guilty.  Plus sone times you ll need to post bail.

 

Don't be scared into paying up with threats of prison, I had all that thrown at me - two years, ended up with a 7,000Bt fine.  It's athe ll BS intimidation by the police to get money out of you.

 

I actually went to unannounced the Attorney's (Prosecutors) office with my wife and children sat down and had a nice little chat.  Very amiable cordial and decent.  He smiled and said - " it's OK you not worry, this only small thing".  In Court he smiled and was great.  These people are smart, well educated and know the score, they re not stupid they know what the police are like and all their scams.

[OneMoreFarang]

36 minutes ago, SteveK said:

What a surprise. Despite the (almost certainly padded) bill being settled by the person at fault giving their bike, the guy is still trying to screw you. He has an opportunity to make some cash and can't resist it.

 

At this point, it would seem you are going to have to pay someone, be it a lawyer, the embassy for a travel document, or the dirtbag himself. I would be tempted to go to the police station and see if an officer will go to his shop with you to get the passport back, failing that you'll just have to go for the cheapest option. But unless you are promising tea money I doubt they will be interested.

 

This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes people never want to go back to Thailand ever again. The guy's debt has been settled so this is extortion plain and simple. It's the best part of £2000, i.e. a huge amount to lose whilst on holiday. If it were me I would go for any option that involves not giving him a penny (report passport lost in next province and get emergency travel document). 

Maybe the guy who owns the motorcycle just wants to make sure this incident does not cost him any money. Ask for 80k and then accept 40k or something like that.

He lend out a working bike and he wants a working undamaged bike back, or compensation. That's not surprising.

Obviously it's not nice to try to extort money. But I think it's also understandable that the business owner does not want to lose money. And I am pretty sure the same would happen all over the world. Nobody wants to lose money!