"America leads the world in testing”.

[RJRS1301]

 

USA :      29063 per million

Spain:     52781  per million

Russia     38625 per million

Italy        43112  per million

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

 

 

This man cannot even get truthful banners.

 

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-donald-trump-flees-press-conference-after-clash-with-reporter-kaitlan-collins/news-story/ca9871696001150df2a0ccd35e06f25a

Edited May 12, 2020 by RJRS1301

[CNXexpat]

Trump isn´t interested in facts. Never!

 

 

[rak sa_ngop]

Not forgetting that Trump and probably a lot of his henchmen are being tested every day so number of tests does not equate to number of people tested,

[Langsuan Man]

 

 

SPIN

[RJRS1301]

57 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

 

 

SPIN

Incorrect claims

Fake News

Obfuscation

 

[UbonThani]

total tests not per capita

[PatOngo]

Let's not forget.........….They lead the world in infections and deaths also!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by PatOngo

[Ryan754326]

TOTAL TESTS:

 

USA-9,935,720

Russia-5,805,404

Germany-2,755,770

etc. etc.

 

How is the USA not leading the world in testing? 
 

Everyone keeps pointing to TOTAL DEATHS when they want to show how poorly the USA has responded to Covid 19, while conveniently leaving out that they have significantly less deaths PER-CAPITA than the major European countries. 
Now, when it suits the narrative, we choose to focus on tests per-capita; forgetting that it takes time and effort to perform each individual test (with a finite number of tests kits available), and that the USA has a much larger population to test than the countries who are leading them in the per-capita metric.

What’s that quote about “lies, damn lies, and statistics” ?

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Ryan754326

[RJRS1301]

4 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

TOTAL TESTS:

 

USA-9,935,720

Russia-5,805,404

Germany-2,755,770

etc. etc.

 

How is the USA not leading the world in testing? 
 

Everyone keeps pointing to TOTAL DEATHS when they want to show how poorly the USA has responded to Covid 19, while conveniently leaving out that they have significantly less deaths PER-CAPITA than the major European countries. 
Now, when it suits the narrative, we choose to focus on tests per-capita; forgetting that it takes time and effort to perform each individual test (with a finite number of tests kits available), and that the USA has a much larger population to test than the countries who are leading them in the per-capita metric.

What’s that quote about “lies, damn lies, and statistics” ?

 

 

 

Test per million is how it is recorded for data for the world stats.

Choosing to record outside of others recording is not a level playing field

 

 

[Ryan754326]

6 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Test per million is how it is recorded for data for the world stats.

Choosing to record outside of others recording is not a level playing field

 

 

Faroe Islands leads the world in per-capita testing with 175,061 per-million inhabitants. They have performed 8554 total tests so far, out of a population of slightly under 50,000 people.
By definition, any country who tests their entire population, would have tested one million people per-million, even if their population was only 100 people. 
The USA has 330 million people to potentially be tested. No country in Europe, besides Russia, has more than 100 million. 
Does this metric seem like an honest way of measuring who “leads” the world in testing? 
 

The fact stands that the USA has tested almost twice as many people as Russia, and more than three times as many as Germany, who hold second and third place. If that’s not leading the world in testing, then I don’t know what is.

 

 

 

[Traubert]

OK. Point taken.

 

Hows it going on deaths?

[Lacessit]

Even assuming that, how do they know if the tests they use are accurate?

 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/flipping-a-coin-covid-19-antibody-tests-should-not-be-used-20200513-p54smf.html

[ChouDoufu]

12 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Let's not forget.........….They lead the world in infections and deaths also!

 

 

winning!

[Langsuan Man]

It's all about numbers with President Trump, never about people

 

I sure would not brag about the total number of tests when I looked at the numbers of reported cases and the number of deaths, but he has to have bragging rights no matter what

 

[ramr]

11 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Faroe Islands leads the world in per-capita testing with 175,061 per-million inhabitants. They have performed 8554 total tests so far, out of a population of slightly under 50,000 people.
By definition, any country who tests their entire population, would have tested one million people per-million, even if their population was only 100 people. 
The USA has 330 million people to potentially be tested. No country in Europe, besides Russia, has more than 100 million. 
Does this metric seem like an honest way of measuring who “leads” the world in testing? 
 

The fact stands that the USA has tested almost twice as many people as Russia, and more than three times as many as Germany, who hold second and third place. If that’s not leading the world in testing, then I don’t know what is.

 

 

 

News flash: you don't know what is.  And your first paragraph is nonsense.

 

The large, diverse population of the US and the federal/state logistics are a handicap for testing in the US, and should be considered in addition to its per capita testing numbers.  But per capita testing numbers are where the conversation should begin.  And it's not like we haven't had time already; if we had been testing at anything approaching the rate of a S. Korea, we would have tested far, far more total in the past couple MONTHS.

 

Our testing performance can be up for debate, but it clearly doesn't merit printing up a Charlie Sheen-style "Winning!" banner and hanging it up at a presidential press conference.

[Ryan754326]

6 hours ago, ramr said:

News flash: you don't know what is.  And your first paragraph is nonsense.

 

The large, diverse population of the US and the federal/state logistics are a handicap for testing in the US, and should be considered in addition to its per capita testing numbers.  But per capita testing numbers are where the conversation should begin.  And it's not like we haven't had time already; if we had been testing at anything approaching the rate of a S. Korea, we would have tested far, far more total in the past couple MONTHS.

 

Our testing performance can be up for debate, but it clearly doesn't merit printing up a Charlie Sheen-style "Winning!" banner and hanging it up at a presidential press conference.

How is my first paragraph nonsense? I have clearly shown that any country with a small population has an automatic advantage if one is only considering per-capita testing numbers. The United States has the third largest population in the world. 
 

If per-capita is the measurement we should use, then why is everyone so focused on the United States’ higher total death numbers, when per-capita, they have less deaths than four of the five largest European countries?

 

The slow response of Trump and his administration is a different argument. Currently, the USA leads the world in total tests. In order for them to take the per-capita lead away from Faroe Islands, they would need to have tested almost 60 million people; more than the top 20 countries’ total tests combined. 
 

Do you see why per-capita tests is not a fair measurement?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Ryan754326

[ramr]

23 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

How is my first paragraph nonsense? I have clearly shown that any country with a small population has an automatic advantage if one is only considering per-capita testing numbers. The United States has the third largest population in the world. 
 

I just automatically discount the tiny countries as outliers when I look at the per-capita tables, so I get what you mean.  I think you explained it better just now than in the previous long-ass paragraph, that's all.   However, that "unfair" (?) advantage should be expected diminish over time--as more and more people get tested--which is why I mentioned that a couple months had already elapsed.  And the more time goes on, the less your "advantage" argument will hold water.

 

23 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

If per-capita is the measurement we should use, then why is everyone so focused on the United States’ higher total death numbers, when per-capita, they have less deaths than four of the five largest European countries?

 

The slow response of Trump and his administration is a different argument. Currently, the USA leads the world in total tests. In order for them to take the per-capita lead away from Faroe Islands, they would need to have tested almost 60 million people; more than the top 20 countries’ total tests combined. 
 

It's not the *only* one we should use, and we need to make adjustments and look at data intelligently, but it's a better starting point than total number of tests.

I would have no problem if Trump were to mention both statistics, along with the pros and cons of each statistic, as we have done here.

What I mainly object to are the big <deleted> "Winning!  #1!  USA!!" banners and photo op nonsense when the data is--and I'm being charitable here-- ambiguous at best.

How can you not feel like your intelligence is being insulted when you see something like this?

 

[robblok]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:15 PM, Ryan754326 said:

How is my first paragraph nonsense? I have clearly shown that any country with a small population has an automatic advantage if one is only considering per-capita testing numbers. The United States has the third largest population in the world. 
 

If per-capita is the measurement we should use, then why is everyone so focused on the United States’ higher total death numbers, when per-capita, they have less deaths than four of the five largest European countries?

 

The slow response of Trump and his administration is a different argument. Currently, the USA leads the world in total tests. In order for them to take the per-capita lead away from Faroe Islands, they would need to have tested almost 60 million people; more than the top 20 countries’ total tests combined. 
 

Do you see why per-capita tests is not a fair measurement?

 

Of course its per capita and so should deaths per capita.

 

Only a mental midget like Trump would choose an other thing to measure.

 

I agree that stating the high number of deaths in USA is stupid as it should be per capita. How else can you compare.

[Ryan754326]

10 hours ago, ramr said:

I just automatically discount the tiny countries as outliers when I look at the per-capita tables, so I get what you mean.  I think you explained it better just now than in the previous long-ass paragraph, that's all.   However, that "unfair" (?) advantage should be expected diminish over time--as more and more people get tested--which is why I mentioned that a couple months had already elapsed.  And the more time goes on, the less your "advantage" argument will hold water.

 

It's not the *only* one we should use, and we need to make adjustments and look at data intelligently, but it's a better starting point than total number of tests.

I would have no problem if Trump were to mention both statistics, along with the pros and cons of each statistic, as we have done here.

What I mainly object to are the big <deleted> "Winning!  #1!  USA!!" banners and photo op nonsense when the data is--and I'm being charitable here-- ambiguous at best.

How can you not feel like your intelligence is being insulted when you see something like this?

 

I won’t disagree with you that Trump’s banner was unnecessary, but it was factually correct. That’s all I was trying to point out. 
 

Per-capita testing numbers should not be ignored, but the way I look at it, a smaller country boasting that they are ahead of a larger country in per-capita testing, is like someone claiming they won a race when they only had to run half as far. 
This is only my opinion, and I can’t argue if you disagree with my analogy. 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Ryan754326

[Sujo]

Next news briefing he will say that the covid in US is worse than the covid strain in any other country and he is a genius to have worked it all out.

 

The banner was elementary style childish, tacky. But it was the best childest, tacky, ever. Period.

[Ryan754326]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Of course its per capita and so should deaths per capita.

 

Only a mental midget like Trump would choose an other thing to measure.

 

I agree that stating the high number of deaths in USA is stupid as it should be per capita. How else can you compare.

I’m not necessarily arguing for one measurement or another. They both have their uses depending on the context.
All I’m looking for is consistency. If people Want to argue that the United States is lagging behind in testing, because smaller countries have tested a larger proportion of their population, then they should also be noting that four of the five largest European nations have significantly more deaths as a proportion, as well.

 

It shouldn’t be treated as a competition, but an awful lot of people seem to like pointing out how badly the USA has botched their response to Covid 19.
I hear a lot of sympathy for Europe, but very little criticism of how their governments have handled it. 
 

 

[bendejo]

Performing tests does not imply the results of the test will be processed.  Assuming that would be an error on your part, as Pence told a reporter at one of the press briefings recently.  So what good is any of this?  Good question.  Less test processing, less recorded cases, simple as that.  But they can say the tests themselves are being performed, it's all about what DT calls the optics.

So to clarify, if "anyone who wants the test can get the test," as DT promised becomes truth, it has nothing to do with obtaining the results of the test.

 

Quote

“I appreciate the question, but it represents a misunderstanding on your part and, frankly, a lot of the people in the public’s part about the difference between having a test versus the ability to actually process the test,” Pence said

[...]

“So when you promised 4 million tests seven weeks ago, you were just talking about tests being sent out, not actually being completed?” he asked.

“Precisely correct,” Pence replied.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/28/21239661/mike-pence-coronavirus-testing-promises

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by bendejo

[Langsuan Man]

I don't understand what everyone is so excited about ! 

 

I am just grateful it wasn't a chart where a sharpie had been used to prove someone was not wrong 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

I’m not necessarily arguing for one measurement or another. They both have their uses depending on the context.
All I’m looking for is consistency. If people Want to argue that the United States is lagging behind in testing, because smaller countries have tested a larger proportion of their population, then they should also be noting that four of the five largest European nations have significantly more deaths as a proportion, as well.

 

It shouldn’t be treated as a competition, but an awful lot of people seem to like pointing out how badly the USA has botched their response to Covid 19.
I hear a lot of sympathy for Europe, but very little criticism of how their governments have handled it. 
 

 

The correct way is to say that the US is lagging behind in testing but is doing it better in death rate. 

But how can the US have a correct death rate if its lagging in testing. 

 

Probably more deaths not attributed to corvid then in European countries with higher testing. That is only logical. 

 

I think its hard to compare countries but Trump stating that the US is doing the most test is simply misleading and on PAR with his lies.

 

I recently saw someone come up with a good way. Just take how many deaths the country had last year in this period compare it with this year. Then countries can't hide the increase and its the same for everyone. Seems a far better way to get to the bottom of this if you really want to get good numbers.

[mistral53]

Wuhan Ordered To Test All 11 Million Residents In 10 Days As Beijing Scrambles To Stop COVID 'Round 2'

 

Darn - these pesky Chinese are really not letting Trump win on anything........... will Trump walk back his victory lap in 10 days and admit he is only #2?

[Ryan754326]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The correct way is to say that the US is lagging behind in testing but is doing it better in death rate. 

But how can the US have a correct death rate if its lagging in testing. 

 

Probably more deaths not attributed to corvid then in European countries with higher testing. That is only logical. 

 

I think its hard to compare countries but Trump stating that the US is doing the most test is simply misleading and on PAR with his lies.

 

I recently saw someone come up with a good way. Just take how many deaths the country had last year in this period compare it with this year. Then countries can't hide the increase and its the same for everyone. Seems a far better way to get to the bottom of this if you really want to get good numbers.

Many people are claiming that deaths could actually be much higher than reported, and this may prove to be true, but when I see that they are attributing probable deaths to Covid without testing, I have my doubts. 

New York’s number of deaths went up 30% overnight when these deaths were added to the official count. What’s to say that these deaths were not the result of regular seasonal flu, pre-existing respiratory conditions, or anything else?

Taking these numbers into consideration for research purposes is one thing, but adding them to the official count, and reporting them as a sudden spike in deaths seems suspicious to me.

You state that Donald Trump’s assertion that the USA leads in testing is a lie, based on your opinion that per-capita is a more appropriate measurement. 
what countries do you believe are doing a better job at testing? 
Would you argue that Australia, for example, with 39,000 tests per-million and a little over 1 million total tests is ahead of the USA with 33,000 per-million, and 11 million total tests?

South Korea, who is held up as the model of a successful testing program now sits at 14,457 tests per-million, with 741,145 total tests; half of the USA’s per-capita numbers, and less than 10% of their total tests. For perspective, if S Korea had tested the total number of people that the USA has, they would now be sitting at more than 200,000 tests per-million, and would be leading the world, in that metric, by a large margin.

 

 

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Many people are claiming that deaths could actually be much higher than reported, and this may prove to be true, but when I see that they are attributing probable deaths to Covid without testing, I have my doubts. 

New York’s number of deaths went up 30% overnight when these deaths were added to the official count. What’s to say that these deaths were not the result of regular seasonal flu, pre-existing respiratory conditions, or anything else?

Taking these numbers into consideration for research purposes is one thing, but adding them to the official count, and reporting them as a sudden spike in deaths seems suspicious to me.

You state that Donald Trump’s assertion that the USA leads in testing is a lie, based on your opinion that per-capita is a more appropriate measurement. 
what countries do you believe are doing a better job at testing? 
Would you argue that Australia, for example, with 39,000 tests per-million and a little over 1 million total tests is ahead of the USA with 33,000 per-million, and 11 million total tests?

South Korea, who is held up as the model of a successful testing program now sits at 14,457 tests per-million, with 741,145 total tests; half of the USA’s per-capita numbers, and less than 10% of their total tests. For perspective, if S Korea had tested the total number of people that the USA has, they would now be sitting at more than 200,000 tests per-million, and would be leading the world, in that metric, by a large margin.

 

 

As for comparing periods then the regular seasonal flue is already included. Because it was in last years deaths. So lets say in april 2019 there were 100.000 deaths (flue and all included) and in april 2020 there were 110.000 then it can be said we have 10.000 extra deaths. Unless of course 2019 is not a good comparative year for some reason.

 

Its not an opinion its a fact that in statistics per capita tests are far better en just the number of tests otherwise you can never compare countries with different population sizes. So not an opinion a fact. Trump might be right in absolute numbers but that is not how it should be measured. So its a half truth or a lie depending how you look at it. On par with Trump his normal dealings.

 

As for comparing south Korea and US i would say any country that has more tests per capita is better so the US would be better then them. However its of course simplistic to say that only per capita numbers tell intelligent testing can be better then blanket testing depending how its done. But I have no opinion if the US or Korea did more intelligent testing.  In basic i say that more test per capita means better (if its done smartly). That is my opinion not a fact like that per capita stats gives a better insight then absolute numbers.

[ThaiFelix]

Yes, I find america very testing!!

[Ryan754326]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

As for comparing periods then the regular seasonal flue is already included. Because it was in last years deaths. So lets say in april 2019 there were 100.000 deaths (flue and all included) and in april 2020 there were 110.000 then it can be said we have 10.000 extra deaths. Unless of course 2019 is not a good comparative year for some reason.

 

Its not an opinion its a fact that in statistics per capita tests are far better en just the number of tests otherwise you can never compare countries with different population sizes. So not an opinion a fact. Trump might be right in absolute numbers but that is not how it should be measured. So its a half truth or a lie depending how you look at it. On par with Trump his normal dealings.

 

As for comparing south Korea and US i would say any country that has more tests per capita is better so the US would be better then them. However its of course simplistic to say that only per capita numbers tell intelligent testing can be better then blanket testing depending how its done. But I have no opinion if the US or Korea did more intelligent testing.  In basic i say that more test per capita means better (if its done smartly). That is my opinion not a fact like that per capita stats gives a better insight then absolute numbers.

There is no question that we’ve seen an increase in excess deaths in 2020 over previous years, however, those excess deaths have overwhelmingly been within the demographic of people 65+ with multiple pre-existing conditions. This is not an argument that it’s okay when old people die. It’s just an observation that I think is relevant when governments are coming up with their ongoing lockdown strategies. 
 

I agree with you that Trump is cherry picking the measurement that makes him look best, but at the same time, most people are also choosing to focus on the measurement that makes him look worst, while at the same time, doing their best to ignore the statistics that show the USA is not doing any worse, in terms of deaths, than most developed Western countries are. In fact, they are doing better than many. 
 

Personally, I don’t see much point in mass testing and confirmation of cases anyway. We are already treating everyone as if they are infected, and it is strongly evident that many millions of people have already been infected, and never showed symptoms.
The important number is deaths, which should be much easier to keep track of than cases, and it should be expected that a country as large as the United States will have many more total deaths than smaller ones, such as Germany, S Korea, or Thailand.

 

[Langsuan Man]

17 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Personally, I don’t see much point in mass testing and confirmation of cases anyway.

Seems that you and Trump are in agreement   

 

No use in letting everyone know exactly how bad it is, better to keep their heads in the sand , until they or one of their family members get's infected

 

Then there will be a chorus or why didn't anyone tell me that this meat packing plant across the street from me has a 70% positive rate