Early end to U.S. state lockdowns could cause needless 'suffering and death' - Fauci

[Lacessit]

19 minutes ago, muzley said:

 Thank god Trump is in charge or the death toll would be many times higher.

Olympic gold medal delusional.

[scorecard]

10 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

The Democrats are going to go for lockdowns for as long as possible to further crush the economy and push for cheat-by-mail voting. 

LA County for example is on lockdown to August now. 

Simply ludicrous... 

What a ludicrous comment...

[dieter1]

what is most disturbing and frightening for me:

In the US (and in many other  countries similair) there is no real and effective open controversy / dispute possible (any more). Its just: if its come from the President it is evel and the left wing /Democratics must oppose it.

Thats the most frightening aspect about this affair (Corono Pandemic).

And before you start argue about "saving lives must be priority ..". The shut down of the country, does effect a lot of other health related issues. It means, the help for people with  other diseases (and these are way more then the so called "Corona cases") are very limited now in consequence of the reactions of the governements. There will be (or are allready)

a lot of deaths and suffering because of these lockdowns and redirecting  resources for Corona.

These "sideeffects" are allready huge, but - for whatever reasons- most governemts and  most of the medias are nearly blocking out these aspects.

just for a start of understanding these sideeffects:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown

 

and yes, as you could expect it: the most  vulnerable  are the poor people (or if you like it more: the "underprivileged").

These people have less resources in every aspects: less money, worse health, worse ability to get good medical care etc.. Meaning they are most effected by a  virus but also (!) most effected by the side effect of the restriction imposed by the governements. And it is to expect, that these sideffects will also lead to many losses of lives in these groups.

 

The extreme economical  recession as the effect of the reactions of the governements in this Corona-crises (not the  effect of the virus!) are effecting mostly the poorest part of the world population. I think, no one will actually doupt that.

You can see that (if you alollow your self it to be seen) every where: These people are the first loosing their jobs. These people have no resourses left, when they loose their daily wages.Many of these people (millions ..) are allready (in consequence of the economical lock down) not able to buy their daily food they need etc. , not able to get (pay for) medical aid when needed, pay for their shelter etc.

 

 

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, muzley said:

Nancy and other Dems such as Bill Di Blasio, Cuomo were all downplaying the virus. Trump blocked travel from China on Jan 31 to the left and MSM howls of "Xenophobia", "Racism" and here are these idiots encouraging people out into the streets!!! Even the Democrat health commissioner of NY was out on Feb 10 inviting people to a party to stand strong with Wuhan!!! Thank god Trump is in charge or the death toll would be many times higher.

45 did not block travel from China. There were many loopholes. 43,000 people entered the US on flights from China AFTER the "ban".

 

45 was also told to block European travel, but he refused for more than a month. Over that period is when the strain entered that has taken the majority of US lives.

 

And no, they were not downplaying the virus. 45, however, was, even when intel and epidemiologists were warning him of the threat.

 

45 FAILED repeatedly at every level of leadership.  Utter, abject failure.

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, Mikeasq60 said:

80% not want to return to work what Bruwhahahahahaha, where on earth are you getting your numbers from?

You can access the polls. You will need the following:

 

-electricity

-an internet connection

-a device that can access the internet

-knowledge of how to perform a "SEARCH" function

-the ability to read numbers

 

I wish you good luck in your endeavor.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

You can access the polls. You will need the following:

 

-electricity

-an internet connection

-a device that can access the internet

-knowledge of how to perform a "SEARCH" function

-the ability to read numbers

 

I wish you good luck in your endeavor.

You forgot the most critical function of all - the ability to fact check every false bit of information that is posted on the internet. Good luck with that too.

[candide]

1 hour ago, muzley said:

Trump blocked travel from China on Jan 31 to the left and MSM howls of "Xenophobia", "Racism"

The same lie again! They criticised another ban which was about immigration from mainly African countries, which had nothing to do with the coronavirus.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

So now you are saying that Fauci is letting people die  unless they use an expensive drug. Is there really no end to the BS that you spout. Do you have any evidence for that claim? Or has it just come from your tin foil hat wearing brigade?

How on earth did you come up with "Fauci is letting people die unless they use an expensive drug."?

 

Is he a medical doctor treating his own patients, or simply giving advice which people are free to accept ir reject.

 

How about the advice that Trump gave about various drugs which have proven to have little effect or taking/injecting disinfectant into your body? You would think that he would talk with his medical advisors BEFORE tossing bombshells like that at a press conference.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

How on earth did you come up with "Fauci is letting people die unless they use an expensive drug."?

 

Is he a medical doctor treating his own patients, or simply giving advice which people are free to accept ir reject.

 

How about the advice that Trump gave about various drugs which have proven to have little effect or taking/injecting disinfectant into your body? You would think that he would talk with his medical advisors BEFORE tossing bombshells like that at a press conference.

The post you're replying to did not make those claims, he was responding to another poster.

[Sujo]

32 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

45 did not block travel from China. There were many loopholes. 43,000 people entered the US on flights from China AFTER the "ban".

 

45 was also told to block European travel, but he refused for more than a month. Over that period is when the strain entered that has taken the majority of US lives.

 

And no, they were not downplaying the virus. 45, however, was, even when intel and epidemiologists were warning him of the threat.

 

45 FAILED repeatedly at every level of leadership.  Utter, abject failure.

Not only that. Trump crying that obama left him with nothing. 

 

Except that 69 page pandemic playbook that actually states on the front cover that its the Playbook.

 

But since its from obama trump refused to use it. 

 

Maybe it should have been written in sharpie and lied about the author by saying dr seuss wrote it.

[rabas]

21 minutes ago, candide said:

The same lie again! They criticised another ban which was about immigration from mainly African countries, which had nothing to do with the coronavirus.

This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia — hysterical xenophobia — and fearmongering,” said Biden the day after the travel restrictions were imposed.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trump-biden-spin-china-travel-restrictions/

 

China called him racist but it was carried by the MSM, of course!

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Im self employed and not getting paid. I live in malaysia and we have been in lockdown for 8 weeks.

 

6500 cases and 110 deaths. The cases are falling now.

 

But its now been extended another month until 9 june.

 

Im all for it. Bravo. Better to do that than open now and cause more pain for longer periods.

 

Im more than happy to hurt the hip pocket for the safety of the many.

The problem for many people is they live paycheck to paycheck, never have anything in reserve to meet contingencies. And this is the mother of all contingencies.

Credit is responsible for huge economic growth, but when it gets turned upside down by a black swan event, the results are nasty. Just ask US shale oil producers.

[candide]

40 minutes ago, dieter1 said:

what is most disturbing and frightening for me:

In the US (and in many other  countries similair) there is no real and effective open controversy / dispute possible (any more). Its just: if its come from the President it is evel and the left wing /Democratics must oppose it.

Thats the most frightening aspect about this affair (Corono Pandemic).

And before you start argue about "saving lives must be priority ..". The shut down of the country, does effect a lot of other health related issues. It means, the help for people with  other diseases (and these are way more then the so called "Corona cases") are very limited now in consequence of the reactions of the governements. There will be (or are allready)

a lot of deaths and suffering because of these lockdowns and redirecting  resources for Corona.

These "sideeffects" are allready huge, but - for whatever reasons- most governemts and  most of the medias are nearly blocking out these aspects.

just for a start of understanding these sideeffects:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown

 

and yes, as you could expect it: the most  vulnerable  are the poor people (or if you like it more: the "underprivileged").

These people have less resources in every aspects: less money, worse health, worse ability to get good medical care etc.. Meaning they are most effected by a  virus but also (!) most effected by the side effect of the restriction imposed by the governements. And it is to expect, that these sideffects will also lead to many losses of lives in these groups.

 

The extreme economical  recession as the effect of the reactions of the governements in this Corona-crises (not the  effect of the virus!) are effecting mostly the poorest part of the world population. I think, no one will actually doupt that.

You can see that (if you alollow your self it to be seen) every where: These people are the first loosing their jobs. These people have no resourses left, when they loose their daily wages.Many of these people (millions ..) are allready (in consequence of the economical lock down) not able to buy their daily food they need etc. , not able to get (pay for) medical aid when needed, pay for their shelter etc.

 

 

You are right to stress such side-effects. The problem is that it's a choice between two evils, so the issue is about where and when to place and move the cursor between the two. In any case, it is likely that poor people will be scr%/€ in any case.

Let's have a look at the negative side effects of opening up:

- manual workers and service attendants (they are often the poorest workers) will be more infected and will die more than those who can go on teleworking;

- surge of covid-19 cases saturates hospitals, so people with other diseases cannot be taken care of;

- covid-19 spread will accelerate. As a result, more people already infected by other diseases will be infected. Those who have TB, for example, surely bear a high death risk.

 

So it's not surprising people disagree on what the right choice may be.

 

Then about your first paragraph: no, it's not the same in many other countries, because this issue has not been politicized.

And who has made it a political issue in the US?

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies about Australia have been removed.

 

A post with unsubstantiated claims has been removed,   (just Google it) is not a valid link to the source of information.  It was off topic anyway. 

[Mama Noodle]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Im self employed and not getting paid. I live in malaysia and we have been in lockdown for 8 weeks.

 

6500 cases and 110 deaths. The cases are falling now.

 

But its now been extended another month until 9 june.

 

Im all for it. Bravo. Better to do that than open now and cause more pain for longer periods.

 

Im more than happy to hurt the hip pocket for the safety of the many.

 

Get back to us when that hip pocket goes empty. 

[Mama Noodle]

Reaaaaaaaaaly looking worse and worse for NY, NJ, and now PA for their elderly care and deaths as a direct result of their executive orders.

 

 

[Tug]

12 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

The Democrats are going to go for lockdowns for as long as possible to further crush the economy and push for cheat-by-mail voting. 

LA County for example is on lockdown to August now. 

Simply ludicrous... 

I’ve read the entire thread and imo find this post the most disingenuous to think anyone is trying to keep the lockdown to hurt trump imo is (untrue)we are all in this together we all benefit from a strong economy the cheat by mail comment is especially disingenuous it has been proven to be quite secure we shouldn’t have to risk exposure to covid to exercise our right to vote imo it another attempt at voter suppression by the republicans as a side comment to spidermike I have deep compassion for your suituation and hope you weather the storm successfully good health and luck to all

[Crazy Alex]

14 hours ago, Slosheroni said:

The amount of stupid in the US is astonishing.  Nobody keeps their distance. Nobody wears a mask.  People still shake hands. And yet the amount of armchair epidemiologists is through the roof.  These are the same Einsteins who went to a packed restaurant on Mother's Day just to show how tough they are.  Then, they complain about restrictions????   If anyone had common sense they'd be able to open and keep the virus from surging again.  Maybe this is all evolution. 

You're not American, so you don't get it. And that's OK. You can think what you want. You can say what you want. We are free to dismiss your opinions. Many Americans prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful tyranny. The latter is a myth anyway, so what choice is there?

[frantick]

Give me liberty or give me death a great American once said. I'm one of those retired paid pensioners, but I'm for everyone getting back to their jobs and normal lives. "New normal" is a phrase for those who have lost their courage.

 

I rarely agree with Bill Maher, but he recently had a good monologue about this; New Rule: Immunity Booster.

[Slosheroni]

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

You're not American, so you don't get it. And that's OK. You can think what you want. You can say what you want. We are free to dismiss your opinions. Many Americans prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful tyranny. The latter is a myth anyway, so what choice is there?

I'm not?  My passport says I am.  My residence is there.  Where in my post was I talking about tyranny anyway?  I'm talking about each person doing his part to do the little things.  Where a mask, keep your distance, wash your hands, don't pick your nose.  In general just don't be a <deleted>' moron.   If everyone did that instead of having to be the tough guy, the Pale Rider, maybe we could open things up.  But the government has to account for the lowest common denominator or which the US is chock full of.  I see it everyday here.  People can't figure out how to do the most common of tasks in another way. 

[Throatwobbler]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

How on earth did you come up with "Fauci is letting people die unless they use an expensive drug."?

 

Is he a medical doctor treating his own patients, or simply giving advice which people are free to accept ir reject.

 

How about the advice that Trump gave about various drugs which have proven to have little effect or taking/injecting disinfectant into your body? You would think that he would talk with his medical advisors BEFORE tossing bombshells like that at a press conference.

I am referring to this quote from Spidermike007.

" Fauci is doing his best (likely with the encouragement of Big Pharma) to discourage trying any medicines which have not undergone a clinical study (like generics, which are far less profitable, and again, with the involvement of the FDA, which oversees these tests), even if it means letting people die"

He clearly thinks that Dr Fauci is letting people die. Please direct your anger towards him.

[jimmybcool]

19 hours ago, Slosheroni said:

The amount of stupid in the US is astonishing.  Nobody keeps their distance. Nobody wears a mask.  People still shake hands. And yet the amount of armchair epidemiologists is through the roof.  These are the same Einsteins who went to a packed restaurant on Mother's Day just to show how tough they are.  Then, they complain about restrictions????   If anyone had common sense they'd be able to open and keep the virus from surging again.  Maybe this is all evolution. 

Curious what part of the US you are in.  I am in Arizona and my direct experience is:

 

Restaurants are closed

Distancing is practiced everywhere

No one shakes hands now

 

So where are you located?  I'd like to avoid that particular area for a while longer.  

[Crazy Alex]

1 hour ago, Slosheroni said:

I'm not?  My passport says I am.  My residence is there.  Where in my post was I talking about tyranny anyway?  I'm talking about each person doing his part to do the little things.  Where a mask, keep your distance, wash your hands, don't pick your nose.  In general just don't be a <deleted>' moron.   If everyone did that instead of having to be the tough guy, the Pale Rider, maybe we could open things up.  But the government has to account for the lowest common denominator or which the US is chock full of.  I see it everyday here.  People can't figure out how to do the most common of tasks in another way. 

OK, so you're American. My bad. Tyranny? How about people live the way they want? And Pale Rider? Huh? What's so tough about not wearing a mask? Many if not most areas of the country have very few infections and deaths. Who are you to tell people to wear a mask without knowing their situation? Yes, you were talking about tyranny. You just didn't recognize it was you engaging in it.

 

https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-coronavirus-cases-map/

 

Many counties in Texas have few to no deaths or infections. Who are you to tell people how to live when you don't have enough facts to be making rational demands? "In general, don't be a <deleted> moron". Great idea.

[Crazy Alex]

6 hours ago, Sujo said:

Not only that. Trump crying that obama left him with nothing. 

 

Except that 69 page pandemic playbook that actually states on the front cover that its the Playbook.

 

But since its from obama trump refused to use it. 

 

Maybe it should have been written in sharpie and lied about the author by saying dr seuss wrote it.

What was in the 69 pages?

[ChouDoufu]

9 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

What was in the 69 pages?

you can read it here:

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268-Pandemic-Playbook.html

this is the source of the title page image above:

https://images.dailykos.com/images/783193/story_image/PandemicPlaybookPage1.jpg?1585249576

[Crazy Alex]

3 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

you can read it here:

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268-Pandemic-Playbook.html

this is the source of the title page image above:

https://images.dailykos.com/images/783193/story_image/PandemicPlaybookPage1.jpg?1585249576

Snappy looking cover. Very impressive. Thank god the Obama cartel left that  behind. I'm sure there was no guidance whatsoever until that was published. (ahem)

Edited May 13, 2020 by Crazy Alex

[ChouDoufu]

4 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Snappy looking cover. Very impressive. Thank god the Obama cartel left that  behind. I'm sure there was no guidance whatsoever until that was published. (ahem)

glad you asked!  (ahem)

 

apparently the outgoing administration held a pandemic response exercise for the incoming admistration.  january 13, 2017.

 

Before Trump’s inauguration, a warning: ‘The worst influenza pandemic since 1918’

In a tabletop exercise days before an untested new president took power, officials briefed the incoming administration on a scenario remarkably like the one he faces now.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/16/trump-inauguration-warning-scenario-pandemic-132797

[ChouDoufu]

interesting stuff.  here's a link politico claims are documents from the briefing, appear to be PPT slides.

 

wow.  flynn was there, as was sean spicer!

 

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000170-e50c-d588-ab77-ed5ff3310000

[candide]

15 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Snappy looking cover. Very impressive. Thank god the Obama cartel left that  behind. I'm sure there was no guidance whatsoever until that was published. (ahem)

It just shows McConnell lied.

[ChouDoufu]

and an obama executive order concerning transition includes:

Executive Order -- Facilitation of a Presidential Transition

...

Sec. 2. Establishment of the White House Transition Coordinating Council.

...

(iii) prepare and host interagency emergency preparedness and response exercises.

 

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2016/05/06/executive-order-facilitation-presidential-transition