When can we return to Thailand?

[Ketyo]

If they opened the borders between Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and Myanmar at first, that would be sensible because there's not much virus going around in them countries now.

 

Keep the border closed with Myanmar because of the threat from Muslim conferences which attract a lot of people at close proximity. And the one with China because they are still having outbreaks and the people travel in huge groups - there could be too many people to control.

[Berti]

3 hours ago, Calvin1976 said:

Don't forget international cargo shipment.

 

Not all shipping company can be like UPS, DHL, FedEx who capable to have their owned aircrafts to transport cargo internationally.

Now air cargo businesses still not affected so badly, some doing quite well.

 

Another reason might be to keep the flight routine to other countries.

If stopped now, might not be easy to resume in future.

 

 

No, it is not cargo shipments, you can actually book a seat.

 

And they don't continue, well some airlines continue, but others start with new flights to BKK and HKG. Maybe the demand for repatriation flights is still very high, or maybe the airlines just must be optimistic to justify state aid.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not a immigration issue. It is a order by the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand (CAAT).

"Public Announcement

Extension of temporary ban on all international flights to Thailand until 31 May 2020"

Source:https://www.caat.or.th/archives/49796

 

You would be right if there were no exceptions to the ban, 20+ international flights arriving at BKK today.

Item 4 of the order states "persons on board" will come under the emergency regulations in which immigration status will be a factor.

 

Bottom line is that the airports are not closed to international flights.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

You would be right if there were no exceptions to the ban, 20+ international flights arriving at BKK today.

Item 4 of the order states "persons on board" will come under the emergency regulations in which immigration status will be a factor.

Those 20 aircraft would include cargo and transiting flights that people could be boarding.

The only people that can enter the country are Thai's on repatriation flights.

"4. The persons on board the aircraft in 3. will be subjected to the measures under communicable disease law, such as 14 days state quarantine, and the regulation under the Emergency Decree on State of Emergency."

 

Your wrote your post as if was all about immigration that is completely wrong.

 

 

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Those 20 aircraft would include cargo and transiting flights that people could be boarding.

The only people that can enter the country are Thai's on repatriation flights.

"4. The persons on board the aircraft in 3. will be subjected to the measures under communicable disease law, such as 14 days state quarantine, and the regulation under the Emergency Decree on State of Emergency."

 

Your wrote your post as if was all about immigration that is completely wrong.

 

 

Do not try and make excuses. You were wrong in the first place to separate the text in my post. It is against the rules to separate out text in an attempt to change the context. This is what I said

 

"That is not true, the airports are not closed to international flights. It is an immigration issue which restricts the entry of most foreign nationals."

 

You are also wrong to make this statement.

"The only people that can enter the country are Thai's on repatriation flights."

 

Para 3 of the emergency decree lays out who can enter the country and there are provisions for several categories of foreign national.

The immigration status of all persons entering the country would be determined by birth, a Thai Embassy, the MFA or the Immigration Bureau.

 

The last sentence of Para 3 says it all

"Immigration officers have the power, in accordance with immigration laws, to refuse entry into the Kingdom of non-Thai nationals who have been tested positive for COVID19 or are under suspicion of being infected or who refuse to undergo such test."

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Do not try and make excuses. You were wrong in the first place to separate the text in my post. It is against the rules to separate out text in an attempt to change the context. This is what I said

 

My most recent post was only quoting your reply to the first post I made.

 

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Para 3 of the emergency decree lays out who can enter the country and there are provisions for several categories of foreign national.

The immigration status of all persons entering the country would be determined by birth, a Thai Embassy, the MFA or the Immigration Bureau.

Can you post a link to what you wrote.

Also you see to be referring to a previous CAAT announcement that was rescinded when a new one was issued.

The newest one only has this in it. 

"Extension of temporary ban on all international flights to Thailand until 31 May 2020

According to the latest Notification of the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand Re: Temporary Ban on All International Flights to Thailand issued on 15 April 2020, in order to maintain the continuity of the prevention and control measures, by virtue of Section 27 and 28 of the Air Navigation Act B.E. 2497, the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand hereby issues the following orders:

1. The ban on international passenger flights to Thailand will be extended from 1 May 2020 at 17.00 UTC to 31 May 2020 at 17.00 UTC.

2. All flight permits granted for such period will be canceled.

3. The ban does not apply to state or military aircraft, emergency landing, technical landing without disembarkation, humanitarian aid, medical and relief flights, repatriation flights and cargo flights.

4. The persons on board the aircraft in 3. will be subjected to the measures under communicable disease law, such as 14 days state quarantine, and the regulation under the Emergency Decree on State of Emergency."

[chainarong]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:17 AM, ChipButty said:

Simple really, right now the airports are closed to international flights then my guess would be if you are coming back from an infected country you will not get into Thailand and if you can enter what will be the requirements? ie, covid insurance and how much cover and a medical certificates the bottom line is Nobody Knows

No insurance company will cover against covid 19,  they're not risk takers. 

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

My most recent post was only quoting your reply to the first post I made.

 

In post No 59 you truncated what I had said and distorted the context which can be seen from post No 57 was a reply to this comment

"Simple really, right now the airports are closed to international flights"

 

I stand by what I said as "most foreign nationals" are faced with entry restriction due to their immigration status.

[erinsf]

You should ask the Thai immigration folks.  I wouldn't go now.  Unless you are willing to stay there for awhile.  Maybe ask the Canadian embassy too?  They will re-open. But, you need a special insurance which is on top of the amount needed to get the original Non-O Visa.  The coverage amount was raised.  Also, you need a Covid clearance...within 72 hours or, something like that.  You really need to check with immigration.  And, if you want to come back...don't go anywhere now.  

[sandyf]

21 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Can you post a link to what you wrote.

Also you see to be referring to a previous CAAT announcement that was rescinded when a new one was issued.

The newest one only has this in it. 

"Extension of temporary ban on all international flights to Thailand until 31 May 2020

According to the latest Notification of the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand Re: Temporary Ban on All International Flights to Thailand issued on 15 April 2020, in order to maintain the continuity of the prevention and control measures, by virtue of Section 27 and 28 of the Air Navigation Act B.E. 2497, the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand hereby issues the following orders:

1. The ban on international passenger flights to Thailand will be extended from 1 May 2020 at 17.00 UTC to 31 May 2020 at 17.00 UTC.

2. All flight permits granted for such period will be canceled.

3. The ban does not apply to state or military aircraft, emergency landing, technical landing without disembarkation, humanitarian aid, medical and relief flights, repatriation flights and cargo flights.

4. The persons on board the aircraft in 3. will be subjected to the measures under communicable disease law, such as 14 days state quarantine, and the regulation under the Emergency Decree on State of Emergency."

I was referring to item 4 of the order you have posted, not any previous version, and the detailed regulation applicable to item 4 is contained in the Emergency Decree which lists exempted persons in sub paras 1 - 6.

 

3. Closure of Point of Entry into the Kingdom: In using vehicles, whether aircrafts, vessels, motor vehicles or any other types of conveyance, or using transportation routes, whether by air, water, or land in order to enter into the Kingdom, the responsible officials shall close the Points of Entry, checkpoints, border crossings or border checkpoints for passengers or travellers entering into the Kingdom, in accordance with the laws on communicable diseases and immigration, except for:

(1) the case, or an exempted person, as prescribed or permitted pertaining to necessity by the Prime Minister or Chief Official responsible for remedying the emergency situation whereby conditions and timeframes may also be prescribed;

(2) carrier of goods pertaining to necessity, who shall promptly depart after completing their mission;

(3) vehicle operators and crew members of vehicles, who need to enter into the Kingdom pursuant to their mission, with a clear scheduled time of departure;

(4) persons on diplomatic or consular missions or under International Organisations, or representatives of the government performing their duties in Thailand, or other persons or international agencies, including their families, that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs gives permission pertaining to necessity, shall apply for a certificate of entry into the Kingdom from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs with relevant documents, and shall also comply with paragraph two;

(5) non-Thai nationals who have work permit or have been granted permission from government agencies to work in the Kingdom, and shall also comply with paragraph two;

(6) Thai nationals who shall apply for a certificate of entry into the Kingdom from the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in their country of residence, or has a medical certificate, and shall comply with paragraph two; The Royal Thai Embassy and Royal Thai Consulate abroad shall provide information and facilitate Thai nationals returning to the Kingdom.

Persons granted an exemption or relaxation under (4) (5) or (6) must have a Fit to Fly Health Certificate which has been certified or issued no more than 72 hours before travelling; upon entry into the Kingdom, they must also comply with disease prevention measures prescribed by the Government under Clause 11, mutatis mutandis;

Immigration officers have the power, in accordance with immigration laws, to refuse entry into the Kingdom of non-Thai nationals who have been tested positive for COVID19 or are under suspicion of being infected or who refuse to undergo such test.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/contents/files/news3-20200329-164122-910029.pdf

[richard_smith237]

36 minutes ago, chainarong said:

No insurance company will cover against covid 19,  they're not risk takers. 

You just made that up out of thin air !!!...

 

I'm currently in the process of renewing out the Health Insurance for my Wife, Son and I.

Our previous insurances (LUMA for Wife and Son and MSH for myself) all included cover for Covid-19 (I e-mailed them and checked). All new policies I've looked at with alternative companies such as AXA, Aetna, April etc all include cover for Covid-19. In fact, I have not found any Health Insurance cover which has stated they will not cover Covid-19.

 

Note: This is regarding yearly Health Insurance and not travel insurance.

[newnative]

51 minutes ago, chainarong said:

No insurance company will cover against covid 19,  they're not risk takers. 

I'm covered for Covid-19 by my insurance.

[ubonjoe]

51 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I was referring to item 4 of the order you have posted, not any previous version, and the detailed regulation applicable to item 4 is contained in the Emergency Decree which lists exempted persons in sub paras 1 - 6.

That really means nothing now and is only in general terms and I think it has been revised since it was issued in March.

Airlines will not allow people to board a flight to here now since they must follow the CAAT rules.

This is what the airlines see and what they will follow.

Source after clicking on the map to show Thailand. https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

 

 

 

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, Ketyo said:

If they opened the borders between Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and Myanmar at first, that would be sensible because there's not much virus going around in them countries now.

 

Keep the border closed with Myanmar because of the threat from Muslim conferences which attract a lot of people at close proximity. And the one with China because they are still having outbreaks and the people travel in huge groups - there could be too many people to control.

The situation in Vietnam is definitely under control right now. Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar (and rural Thailand) are less clear. You are wrong about China. Yes, there have been limited recent outbreaks on the borders with Russia and North Korea, They are small and under control. Other than this, and imported cases by those already quarantined, there have been only a handful of cases in more than a month. Given China's huge population, the number of cases is remarkably low. If China will allow tour groups to leave and return, this would actually be good for Thailand's hospitality industry. In reality, I expect controls either by China or Thailand to defeat any early return of Chinese mass tourism.

 

Thailand would be crazy to allow tourism from Europe or the US until Covid-19 is under control there. South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand would be good, but they are unlikely to cooperate.

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The situation in Vietnam is definitely under control right now. Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar (and rural Thailand) are less clear.

 

You are wrong about China. Yes, there have been limited recent outbreaks on the borders with Russia and North Korea, They are small and under control. Other than this, and imported cases by those already quarantined, there have been only a handful of cases in more than a month. Given China's huge population, the number of cases is remarkably low.

And you know this how, exactly?  Anyone who dares "say anything" is "disappeared." 

 

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If China will allow tour groups to leave and return, this would actually be good for Thailand's hospitality industry.

It would help the large corporations who benefit from tour-groups.  Unfortunately, they have much smaller employee/customer ratios, and lower pay, than all the small businesses the non-tour-groups support.

 

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

In reality, I expect controls either by China or Thailand to defeat any early return of Chinese mass tourism.

 

Thailand would be crazy to allow tourism from Europe or the US until Covid-19 is under control there. South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand would be good, but they are unlikely to cooperate.

We won't really know what is a good idea, until we know what percentage of Thais are already immune - most-infected never even knowing they had the virus.  We could be close to herd-immunity already - or not.   If not, there will be another wave (with or w/o tourists), where a small % of those infected - very old and/or already-sick people - will become critically-ill. 

 

The only purpose of the "flatten the curve" strategy, was to keep everyone from getting sick all at once, such that that small % was enough to overwhelm hospitals.  Whether the lockdowns even accomplished this, is anyone's guess - as there has not been widespread testing to find out.  Where there has been *more* testing, it appears people continued to get the virus to spite the lockdowns.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

You just made that up out of thin air !!!...

 

I'm currently in the process of renewing out the Health Insurance for my Wife, Son and I.

Our previous insurances (LUMA for Wife and Son and MSH for myself) all included cover for Covid-19 (I e-mailed them and checked). All new policies I've looked at with alternative companies such as AXA, Aetna, April etc all include cover for Covid-19. In fact, I have not found any Health Insurance cover which has stated they will not cover Covid-19.

 

Note: This is regarding yearly Health Insurance and not travel insurance.

The danger to the insurance corps from covid are no worse than flu, so yes - why the coverage is available.  Our first clue, were the costs of covid-specific policies offered in March - which were not very expensive.  I calculated my "death odds" based on premium vs payout (the ratio a tiny figure), factored in they were making a profit as well, and knew they knew something the media and politicians were not telling the rest of us.

 

I would expect higher-premiums or no-coverage offered for the elderly (already expensive) or perhaps those with pre-existing conditions known to make covid dangerous.  But it all comes down to the acturarials' calculations. 

[pookondee]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The danger to the insurance corps from covid are no worse than flu, so yes - why the coverage is available.  Our first clue, were the costs of covid-specific policies offered in March - which were not very expensive.  I calculated my "death odds" based on premium vs payout (the ratio a tiny figure), factored in they were making a profit as well, and knew they knew something the media and politicians were not telling the rest of us.

 

I would expect higher-premiums or no-coverage offered for the elderly (already expensive) or perhaps those with pre-existing conditions known to make covid dangerous.  But it all comes down to the acturarials' calculations. 

Yes, the very fact they are insuring against Covid means they know something more than everyone else.

The game is rigged and it always has been.

 

Actually, any insurance you do get for Covid, id be looking real close at the fine-print.

It could well be that they will indemnify themselves from any claim by way of the manner in which you got infected.

 

for example: 

if they deemed you broke a social distancing law and got infected.

They are good at stuff like that.

[ChakaKhan]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:27 AM, EricTh said:

@GRMilne

 

This is my predictions.

 

Month of May - no incoming flights from any countries 

Month of June - open to China, South Korea

Month of July - ??

What If I was on a flight from China...allowed in??

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, ChakaKhan said:

What If I was on a flight from China...allowed in??

Certainly not at this since there are no flights to here now.

Nobody knows what will be possible in June or later.

I personally I think it going to be the same in June as it is now.

[newnative]

   I think it's encouraging that Thai Airways has set as July 1 to begin international flights again.  Yes, flying is restricted now but remember, we're still just in the middle of May, with the long month of June ahead.  This month has already seen quite a few restrictions lifted and I think next month will see more--including flight restrictions eased for July.  

[ChakaKhan]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Certainly not at this since there are no flights to here now.

Nobody knows what will be possible in June or later.

I personally I think it going to be the same in June as it is now.

Knowing you are a stable source here as long as I've known The TV Master, what would be your call on coming back from USA, kinda wishing I stayed as I snuck out mid march, but hindsight is 20-20  a mess here

 

In your exp, if you had to guess when and the rules to return...trying to figure out my gameplan

[ChakaKhan]

On 5/14/2020 at 10:25 AM, Sheryl said:

I am in the same situation, wanting/needing to make a trip to the US.

 

But there is no telling at this point when that will be possible. I have told my family there that odds of my being able to come before fall are low.

You do NOT want to be here...Im regretting racing back here in mid march..is a disaster zone..ready to return

[ubonjoe]

38 minutes ago, ChakaKhan said:

In your exp, if you had to guess when and the rules to return...trying to figure out my gameplan

July is maybe but I think it will require a 14 day quarantine when arriving from anywhere. I think they have learned that is the only sure way to keep the virus from being imported. The most recent proof of that is that 7 Thais returning from Pakistan tested positive for the virus.

In August maybe the same unless reliable rapid virus tests are available that can be done when boarding a flight to here.

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

July is maybe but I think it will require a 14 day quarantine when arriving from anywhere. I think they have learned that is the only sure way to keep the virus from being imported. The most recent proof of that is that 7 Thais returning from Pakistan tested positive for the virus.

In August maybe the same unless reliable rapid virus tests are available that can be done when boarding a flight to here.

Quarantine plus total ban on arrivals from some lications is my guess which would unfortunately would include USA

 Due to the country's size it will be many months before incidence starts to drop there.

 

I could live with quarantine if it were at hime but quarantine in a govt selected facility -- likely a small hotel room with a bed hard as cement -- gives real pause. 

[laosnative]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:54 AM, laosnative said:

I am in Laos now, There has been no announcement concerning any change to current policy yet.

Today is friday, I would expect that any policy changes that may occur, will be announced today before the weekend. 

Update re above.........

Laos Govt issued a presidential order yesterday.

Due to the fact that there have been no new cases for over 1 month, several restrictions were eased, and interprovincial travel is allowed again.

Borders, however, remain closed for the time being, other than goods transport.

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by laosnative

[KhaoNiaw]

21 hours ago, Ketyo said:

If they opened the borders between Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and Myanmar at first, that would be sensible because there's not much virus going around in them countries now.

Thailand only recently put all the neighbouring countries on the high risk list. Presumably to justify keeping strict controls over the borders I would guess.

[laosnative]

16 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Thailand only recently put all the neighbouring countries on the high risk list. Presumably to justify keeping strict controls over the borders I would guess.

It would appear to be the reason yes.

Obviously both sides of said borders need to be open, for any sort of cross border travel to happen........They want to retain control of their own destiny should a neighbour decide to open their side.

 

[EricTh]

3 hours ago, ChakaKhan said:

What If I was on a flight from China...allowed in??

 

Not sure about that but I think it's only for Chinese citizens.

 

Anyway, you have to be quarantined for 14 days in China first before coming to Thailand if they allow.

 

[MRToMRT]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

   I think it's encouraging that Thai Airways has set as July 1 to begin international flights again.  Yes, flying is restricted now but remember, we're still just in the middle of May, with the long month of June ahead.  This month has already seen quite a few restrictions lifted and I think next month will see more--including flight restrictions eased for July.  

Qatar are offering flights to and from BKK in July too now. But not offering flights to some other countries until much later, for example London bookings are (yesterday when I looked) open from Oct 1st.

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

no travel insurance for covid is likely to occur for ages for uk travelers

Edited May 16, 2020 by 3NUMBAS