One way to to partial recovery

[Sir Bogdiver]

It will be a long time before Western tourists will return to Thailand.

One way to attract well-heeled foreigners is by changing the visa regime.  One long term change the Covid crisis will bring is that many more people will work permanently on-line instead of in offices.

Thailand could attract a large number of these workers by creating an attractive visa regime for them. At present there is no pathway for these workers to stay long term.

By creating a visa category for them it would be possible for them to live and work in Thailand.  Thailand could then tax them a flat tax rate of say 50,000 Baht per year.  As these workers are usually quite well off the economic input into the economy would be considerable.  For the foreign workers it would have a number of advantages. For one they would live and work in a much more pleasant climate and environment then they have in the West. Secondly, by paying tax here a number of them would be able to offset taxes in their home countries due to double taxation treaties.  To what extend the latter works to their advantage would depend on the tax regime in their home countries.

[Puchaiyank]

"For one they would live and work in a much more pleasant climate and environment then they have in the West".

 

Arguably a false statement...hot as hades and some of the worst pollution in the world...not to mention water shortages...

[Postmaster]

At least the poster has given thought to a recovery idea.

[robertson468]

Agreed the poster has given some thought to kick-starting the Thai Economy, unlike Puchaiyank who would appear to dislike a hot climate, which makes one wonder why he came here?  Have lived here now for 15 years and love the heat and have the means to be comfortable with it.....swimming pool, fan or air conditioning all spring to mind.  As for polution, sure if you live in Swamy, Chang Mai or Chang Rai, but living on Samui, the air is clear as a bell and having our own water well, we are never without.  Brilliant place to live, but a pity about the people who are Governing the place, but there again, there are lots of "numpties" running Countries around the World who are a lot worse - Brazil springs to mind.

[Knocker33]

With the Thai government hell bent on getting the Chinese back here as soon as possible it's going to be a long, long time before anyone in there right mind wants to visit here. If I didn't live here I for one would certainly not be coming here .  

 

[yellowboat]

Dear Sir, The last thing the Thai military wants are thousands of well educated, highly motivated westerners (or any other non Thais) running around with cartblanche approval to seek out opportunities.  It does not fit into the xenophobe, nationalistic character of the country's current rulers.  I love working with my Thai counterparts.   They do a good job and are wonderfully patient and persistant.  We were looking at opening an office before cha cha assumed the premiership.  After that, opening up in Thailand was used as fadder for jokes.   What you are referring to already exists in Vietnam and Malaysai.  Before Malaysia's coup,  their goverment ran ads on Youtube enticing Thai expats working expats to move to Malaysia as the labor laws are far more flexible.  China far more lenient than Thailand.  You can paint a fence or build a boat, and the Chinese do not care.  

[malibukid]

2 hours ago, robertson468 said:

Agreed the poster has given some thought to kick-starting the Thai Economy, unlike Puchaiyank who would appear to dislike a hot climate, which makes one wonder why he came here?  Have lived here now for 15 years and love the heat and have the means to be comfortable with it.....swimming pool, fan or air conditioning all spring to mind.  As for polution, sure if you live in Swamy, Chang Mai or Chang Rai, but living on Samui, the air is clear as a bell and having our own water well, we are never without.  Brilliant place to live, but a pity about the people who are Governing the place, but there again, there are lots of "numpties" running Countries around the World who are a lot worse - Brazil springs to mind.

beats a lot of other options, main problem is that most world class rock groups avoid the place.  not a global cross roads when it comes to entertainment. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by malibukid

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, robertson468 said:

Agreed the poster has given some thought to kick-starting the Thai Economy, unlike Puchaiyank who would appear to dislike a hot climate, which makes one wonder why he came here?  Have lived here now for 15 years and love the heat and have the means to be comfortable with it.....swimming pool, fan or air conditioning all spring to mind.  As for polution, sure if you live in Swamy, Chang Mai or Chang Rai, but living on Samui, the air is clear as a bell and having our own water well, we are never without.  Brilliant place to live, but a pity about the people who are Governing the place, but there again, there are lots of "numpties" running Countries around the World who are a lot worse - Brazil springs to mind.

Really! I bet that Brazil does not have any of this nonsensical  reporting to anyone every 90 days.

[Paul DS]

Dear Bogdiver

 

I dont think you grasp the reality of Thailand.

 

They do not want you! Full stop! You are just a nuisance to them.

 

Once they let the Chinese come back, then tourism in there eyes will be okay.

 

The Junta are doing very well thank you! They have no debt and life is carrying on very well for them.

 

Forget the average Joe, without a job, starving, no water etc...it does not effect the Junta!

 

 

[phkauf]

Nice try, but as others point out so well, foreigners are not now, nor have they ever been welcome in Thailand. At best, they are tolerated as long as they don't interfere with a Thai business. While your 50,000 baht "tax" may sound reasonable, the Thais will never bite on that since the Thai Elite Visa (essentially what you propose) is about 100K per annum. 

Add in the current regime's crackdown on life and the likelihood that continues as long as they want to control things (read: as long as they possibly can), Thailand is much less attractive for those you intend to attract. Highly educated, wealthy professionals do not want to be subjected to the nonsensical rules this government imposes. Heck Vietnam is more stable and easier to navigate. Thailand used to have "freedom" as a selling point, but that is long gone. Criticize the government these days and you could be in a world of sh!t.

Let's not forget the ridiculous taxes on imported goods that most wealthy expats will desire. 

With this current regime, you are likely to attract low level nomads (bloggers, online teachers, etc.) - the higher level folks will go somewhere they feel comfortable. 

[micmichd]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:05 PM, Puchaiyank said:

"For one they would live and work in a much more pleasant climate and environment then they have in the West".

 

Arguably a false statement...hot as hades and some of the worst pollution in the world...not to mention water shortages...

Depends. Near the beach the climate is ideal for me. 

[ubonjoe]

A total of 3 off topic posts have been removed. If it keeps up this topic will have a very short life span.

[khunPer]

On 5/15/2020 at 9:49 AM, Sir Bogdiver said:

Thailand could attract a large number of these workers by creating an attractive visa regime for them. At present there is no pathway for these workers to stay long term.

Thailand already has such an offer, Thailand Elite Card, available for digital nomads and like that officially live from savings.

 

Thiland is mainly interested in visitors with funds – presume that include the so-called "quality tourist" – and tourists not staying more than a couple of month and with fairly high daily spending. Asian tourists seem to be preferred.

 

Statistically Westerners are on the bottom of the list, they spend the least...

 

[Mikeasq60]

Im not sure where this article gets its information from but as soon as flights are available again and the borders open up the tourists will return like nothing happened. I have a wife in Thailand and Im ready to spend money OPEN THE BORDERS THAILAND!

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, Postmaster said:

At least the poster has given thought to a recovery idea.

Really? Thailand needs tourism, not more workers imo. 

[Lacessit]

43 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Thailand already has such an offer, Thailand Elite Card, available for digital nomads and like that officially live from savings.

 

Thiland is mainly interested in visitors with funds – presume that include the so-called "quality tourist" – and tourists not staying more than a couple of month and with fairly high daily spending. Asian tourists seem to be preferred.

 

Statistically Westerners are on the bottom of the list, they spend the least...

 

This is misleading, because it takes no account of the thousands of Westerners living here with their Thai wives and GF's, contributing to the Thai economy. Bet there aren't too many Chinese or Arabs doing that.

[Lacessit]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:05 PM, Puchaiyank said:

"For one they would live and work in a much more pleasant climate and environment then they have in the West".

 

Arguably a false statement...hot as hades and some of the worst pollution in the world...not to mention water shortages...

I really have to wonder if you have caught up with the world of air conditioners and purifiers. Electricity is cheap here.

You'd rather live in the UK, and freeze your nuts off? Not to mention the thunder thighs of the women.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Lacessit

[Clowny]

47 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I really have to wonder if you have caught up with the world of air conditioners and purifiers. Electricity is cheap here.

You'd rather live in the UK, and freeze your nuts off? Not to mention the thunder thighs of the women.

It's actually misleading because it doesn't take length of stay into account. Westerners spend less but stay longer, whereas the Chinese visits are much shorter.

[shackleton]

It's amazing the expat complainers on here 

There will always be tourists from the UK and other countries coming here once things improve on the corovirus front

The  expats  on here must think Thailand needs them more then theTourist

You chose to retire,  stay here make the most of it and enjoy 

[Jenkins9039]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:49 PM, Sir Bogdiver said:

flat tax rate of say 50,000 Baht per year

You do realise, they would either be working for a company in another country, or they would have a company in that country that bills the company that is paying for the service, so they would be paying tax there in that country, also, your idea about a tax rate of 50,000 THB is laughable, the average professional foreigner earns around 120,000 THB (onshore anyway) of which 20,000 THB is taxed deducted, which is 240,000 a annum. 

You'd be filling the country up with yet more drop-outs, chancers, schemers etc that for the first point they've spent the past two years trying to remove, and on another aspect, does not go with the way of thinking for the Country, HNW.

 

Thailand wants a mixed tourism/expat base but its core objective is to go High Net Worth, with HNW taxes of one person equates to significantly more than the head count of what you are proposing.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Really! I bet that Brazil does not have any of this nonsensical  reporting to anyone every 90 days.

No, they are busy trying to rescue the kidnapped, before another ear or finger is cut off and sent to the family. 

[Puchaiyank]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I really have to wonder if you have caught up with the world of air conditioners and purifiers. Electricity is cheap here.

You'd rather live in the UK, and freeze your nuts off? Not to mention the thunder thighs of the women.

You had me interested until you brought up the thunder thighs...almost smothered to death during a GYN examination of a sensitive 18 year old...

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, phkauf said:

Nice try, but as others point out so well, foreigners are not now, nor have they ever been welcome in Thailand. At best, they are tolerated as long as they don't interfere with a Thai business. While your 50,000 baht "tax" may sound reasonable, the Thais will never bite on that since the Thai Elite Visa (essentially what you propose) is about 100K per annum. 

The "elite" is a minimum of 500K up-front, which people who wish to retain options are not going to pay.  More on this below ... 

 

And "should pay more income-tax" isn't an issue, anyway.  It's a "lose-lose" if the potential-taxpayer just lives in other countries, instead - and doesn't spend their income here, or pay VAT tax, or pay Thai visa-fees, etc.

 

5 hours ago, phkauf said:

Add in the current regime's crackdown on life and the likelihood that continues as long as they want to control things (read: as long as they possibly can), Thailand is much less attractive for those you intend to attract. Highly educated, wealthy professionals do not want to be subjected to the nonsensical rules this government imposes. Heck Vietnam is more stable and easier to navigate. Thailand used to have "freedom" as a selling point, but that is long gone. Criticize the government these days and you could be in a world of sh!t.

Let's not forget the ridiculous taxes on imported goods that most wealthy expats will desire. 

With this current regime, you are likely to attract low level nomads (bloggers, online teachers, etc.) - the higher level folks will go somewhere they feel comfortable. 

Those "highly educated, wealthy professionals," can already come here - or an island in Greece - and being wealthy, 500K or 1M Baht for a 20 year "elite visa" is not a problem. 

 

Thailand's selling point - when all those now boarded-up sois of once-successful businesses were operating - always included BUDGET as a key selling-point.  Thailand had nice people, fantastic food (including 'street' food), and was very affordable. 

 

It was also relatively easy to stay - just do a border run or go get another Tourist Visa.  If not working a Thai job - no problem.  No handouts for those w/o money prevented the "mass-migration of bums for handouts" issue which is the reason for Western travel restrictions. 

 

Then, immigration changed all that, and broke what worked.  They tried to replace it with "tour group" tourism (though they were not mutually-exclusive) which strained infrastructure, and limited gains to a few large companies (largely Chinese owned).  Ordinary working-class Thais lost opportunities, though the "total count" of tourists rose.

 

What is needed, is a system even better than the previous working model - similar to the PI, where one can renew in-country for a fixed-fee.  5K every 3 months would work.  50K/yr is too high relative to the cost of living here.

 

So-called "bloggers" and "online teachers"  - as well as many better-jobs which are do-able online now - all pay multiple times a Thai salary, so each person with that income supports several Thais with their spending.  It's a win-win for everyone - except the CCP's foreign policy.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

This is misleading, because it takes no account of the thousands of Westerners living here with their Thai wives and GF's, contributing to the Thai economy. Bet there aren't too many Chinese or Arabs doing that.

It also averages in a few "high rollers" with the masses.  There is nothing in what is proposed here, which would deter the high-rollers coming in - or even the "tour groups," if it were decided they were still desired.

 

2 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Thailand wants a mixed tourism/expat base but its core objective is to go High Net Worth, with HNW taxes of one person equates to significantly more than the head count of what you are proposing.

Why does facilitating the return of the folks who kept thousands of small businesses in operation, before the 'crackdowns', preclude any other group?  The "HNW" folks would never even eat in the same places as "regular" folks.

OTOH, the "tour group" hordes did do serious damage to Thailand's appeal.  Jammed roads, packed airports, and crowds following flags down streets, through markets, etc were awful.

Edited May 16, 2020 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Really? Thailand needs tourism, not more workers imo. 

Those working for offshore-entities online spend money here, which creates Thai jobs - just like tourist's spending does.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

This is misleading, because it takes no account of the thousands of Westerners living here with their Thai wives and GF's, contributing to the Thai economy. Bet there aren't too many Chinese or Arabs doing that.

Those living here are not tourists – which is what the table shows – and those working here on a work permit already pays tax.

 

How much do a person living permanet in Thailand spend per day in average?

 

The average tourist, "all countries", spend rounded down $150 x 30 = 4,500 baht a day. In a year that would be 4,500 baht x 365 = 1,642,500 baht. That's about two times the estimated retirement amount of 800,000 baht a year, or 65,000 baht a month.

 

How many foreigners are living in Thailand?

 

There are no reliable statistics. Excluding migrant workers from neighboring countries "Thailand Migration Report 2019" based on issued visas – which might mean extension of stay – says the number is 200,000; divided as 77.000 due to family (marriage or children); 73,000 retirement, and 50,000 due to investments. Furthermore the Ministry of Work says that there are 113,000 highly skilled foreign workers. The total is then 313,000 foreigners living in Thailand; or there about.

 

 

[Boomer6969]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:49 PM, Sir Bogdiver said:

a flat tax rate of say 50,000 Baht per year.  As these workers are usually quite well off

"quite well off" as far as I am concerned would involved incomes of 3 million THB yearly, so a flat tax on this threshold should be 300000 to make sense. Don't forget that Thailand will be, more and more, in the business of keeping the cheap Charlies out. Flat tax should be given as an option, the alternative being filing normal tax returns, under audit scrutiny of course.

[fantom]

I like the proposition in the op. Another point he / she could have included is that Thailand has fast and reliable broadband, it is far better than Australia and ditto the UK.

 

The sooner a grown up government moves in the better for all concerned.

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:05 PM, Puchaiyank said:

Arguably a false statement...hot as hades and some of the worst pollution in the world...not to mention water shortages...

"Hades" it is not. For 'some' it gets very hot and the older and fatter you get it seems hotter. Global warming by most is not disputed. It's the rate, cause and long term effect that are the big arguments. It depends upon where you're from in making your temperature comparisons.  If you're from Jakarta, Chennai, Mumbai, Abu Dhabi, Cairo, Bogota, Mexico City, etc. to name a few, they might argue with you about the heat. Shoot, yankee, some in Oklahoma, Texas & Louisiana will argue about it.

 

Some of them will argue with you about the pollution, especially Mumbai, Delhi and Jakarta.

 

It was just, Sir Bogdiver's, idea to add a little more flex to immigration.  Pretty doubtful it'll happen, but I wish him well. 

[brokenbone]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:05 PM, Puchaiyank said:

"For one they would live and work in a much more pleasant climate and environment then they have in the West".

 

Arguably a false statement...hot as hades and some of the worst pollution in the world...not to mention water shortages...

no, i take it you have no idea what its like to live in sub zero temperature,

its not possible for humans to survive there without extensive shielding

from the very hostile environment