Democrats launch probe of Trump's firing of State Department watchdog

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Trump was a "Hail Mary" pass against what is obviously the managed decline of a nation. He was a horrible mistake. What's worse is, he isn't really any worse than HRC would have been or Biden will be.

IMO Trump was a logical result of the common person's revulsion with the Washington bubble. Whether he has done anything against the swamp or not he was the only one that said he would. Same with Bernie who was also hugely popular for his anti establishment rhetoric.

HRC and Biden are, IMO, establishment creatures, so would continue with Obama politics and they are what elected Trump, IMO.

I am not an American, but if I was I'd be voting Trump as I'd hate everything the Dems stand for ( I can't see that the GOP are any different, but Trump is not exactly an establishment politician ). he may not be an ideal politician/person, but he's better than the alternatives, IMO. If either party had put up a better candidate last time they'd be POTUS now.

[smutcakes]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO Trump was a logical result of the common person's revulsion with the Washington bubble. Whether he has done anything against the swamp or not he was the only one that said he would. Same with Bernie who was also hugely popular for his anti establishment rhetoric.

HRC and Biden are, IMO, establishment creatures, so would continue with Obama politics and they are what elected Trump, IMO.

I am not an American, but if I was I'd be voting Trump as I'd hate everything the Dems stand for ( I can't see that the GOP are any different, but Trump is not exactly an establishment politician ). he may not be an ideal politician/person, but he's better than the alternatives, IMO. If either party had put up a better candidate last time they'd be POTUS now.

Agree, Trump is an utter moron and a pretty repugnant person. It just goes to show how pathetic/unelectable the candidates the Democrats keep putting up are. I am not sure how no one in the Democrats can see how far they are missing public sentiment by.  (See UK example of Labour party and Corbyn).

 

I am sure that 50% of the votes the Democrats do get is protest votes against Trump rather than voters liking the Democrats candidates. If they put up someone even moderately electable they would win by a landslide. Surely the democrats in a population of 330 million, can find one person who is youngish, charismatic and does not have issues with memory, the bottle or playful hands.

[lannarebirth]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO Trump was a logical result of the common person's revulsion with the Washington bubble. Whether he has done anything against the swamp or not he was the only one that said he would. Same with Bernie who was also hugely popular for his anti establishment rhetoric.

HRC and Biden are, IMO, establishment creatures, so would continue with Obama politics and they are what elected Trump, IMO.

I am not an American, but if I was I'd be voting Trump as I'd hate everything the Dems stand for ( I can't see that the GOP are any different, but Trump is not exactly an establishment politician ). he may not be an ideal politician/person, but he's better than the alternatives, IMO. If either party had put up a better candidate last time they'd be POTUS now.

 

No reasonable person could vote for Trump or Biden, unless Biden had a really fantastic VP choice, which doesn't seem likely. Someone else is really the only honorable thing to do.

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Agree, Trump is an utter moron and a pretty repugnant person. It just goes to show how pathetic/unelectable the candidates the Democrats keep putting up are. I am not sure how no one in the Democrats can see how far they are missing public sentiment by.  (See UK example of Labour party and Corbyn).

 

I am sure that 50% of the votes the Democrats do get is protest votes against Trump rather than voters liking the Democrats candidates. If they put up someone even moderately electable they would win by a landslide. Surely the democrats in a population of 330 million, can find one person who is youngish, charismatic and does not have issues with memory, the bottle or playful hands.

 

They could find that person, sure. Andrew Yang was that person. But they're not looking for that person. Frankly, I'm pretty sure they don't care if they win or lose, if the money rolls in.

 

In America, in the second term of an incumbent president, the political primaries are the only elections that matter. 90% of the population sleeps through the primaries. Hence, Biden.

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

They could find that person, sure. Andrew Yang was that person. But they're not looking for that person. Frankly, I'm pretty sure they don't care if they win or lose, if the money rolls in.

 

In America, in the second term of an incumbent president, the political primaries are the only elections that matter. 90% of the population sleeps through the primaries. Hence, Biden.

If Yang made a run, you can be sure the Government would start linking his heritage to Taiwan, China, Chronovirus etc- many people would swallow it- Sad but true.

 

The US must have the largest range of intelligence in the whole world, from the brightest minds all the way to people who genuinely should be classified as impaired. Unfortunately they all have access to internet and there seems to be many of them on the lower end of the scale.

[lannarebirth]

7 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If Yang made a run, you can be sure the Government would start linking his heritage to Taiwan, China, Chronovirus etc- many people would swallow it- Sad but true.

 

The US must have the largest range of intelligence in the whole world, from the brightest minds all the way to people who genuinely should be classified as impaired. Unfortunately they all have access to internet and there seems to be many of them on the lower end of the scale.

 

Yang was the best presidential candidate since FDR. Americans have a well earned reputation for being stupid.

[TopDeadSenter]

3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Yang was the best presidential candidate since FDR.

With respect, I don't see paying a $1,000 monthly income for all together with open borders being a well thought out plan at all. So, probably not the best candidate since FDR.

[lannarebirth]

10 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

With respect, I don't see paying a $1,000 monthly income for all together with open borders being a well thought out plan at all. So, probably not the best candidate since FDR.

 

I'm not sure where you got the open borders idea. Yang is pro border security. And you would not be paying $1,000/mo, you'd be collecting $1,000/mo, from the companies that are making $Trillions off your data, whch they are selling and reselling, which you are currently giving away for free. Or are you the guy that read the whole thing before you clicked "I Agree".

Edited May 19, 2020 by lannarebirth

[heybruce]

50 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I hate McConnell and send contributions to a Democrat who I hope will oppose and beat him in the General Election. That said, your quote is just political speech. I get a dozen emails a day from various Democrat affiliated groups asking for contributions to "make Trump a one term president"

My post supported my contention that Democrats now are no more partisan and obstructionist that Republicans were during Obama's Presidency.  Your reply does the same.

[heybruce]

25 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

No reasonable person could vote for Trump or Biden, unless Biden had a really fantastic VP choice, which doesn't seem likely. Someone else is really the only honorable thing to do.

As I've stated before:  If you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you get the greater evil.

 

The best fix to the entrenched two party system that caters to extremes is the rank order voting system, also known as the ranked choice voting system.  It's used in some localities and Maine, as well as several democratic countries (Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and others).  Instead of rewarding candidates for catering to extreme elements of their base, it encourages candidates to appeal to the broadest possible range of voters.

 

Changing the accepted voting method will be a hard sell, but it could be done on a state by state basis until most of the country gets the hang of it.

[heybruce]

15 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Why are you wasting your time with that kind of trivial <deleted>? Maybe you've been away too long, but your country is going down the tubes, and it doesn't matter all that much who wins the next presidential election. Millions of people are hurting all over the country and the Democrats just proposed a Bill to bail out lobbyists and "Dark Money" contributors. The Republicans think they've probably done enough already. In that scenario, the Republicans look like the good guys.

"it doesn't matter all that much who wins the next presidential election."

 

Disagree.

 

"the Democrats just proposed a Bill to bail out lobbyists and "Dark Money" contributors."

 

Details?

[lannarebirth]

18 minutes ago, heybruce said:

As I've stated before:  If you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you get the greater evil.

 

The best fix to the entrenched two party system that caters to extremes is the rank order voting system, also known as the ranked choice voting system.  It's used in some localities and Maine, as well as several democratic countries (Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and others).  Instead of rewarding candidates for catering to extreme elements of their base, it encourages candidates to appeal to the broadest possible range of voters.

 

Changing the accepted voting method will be a hard sell, but it could be done on a state by state basis until most of the country gets the hang of it.

 

I worked on bringing ranked choice voting in my state. It exists in some localities, but not others.  STAR voting is another preferable mechanism, though not my first choice. Both are preferable to the current system. 

 

Only one candidate in the Democrat primary was for either RCV or STAR voting, and that was Andrew Yang. The unbelievabally stupid electorate passed on the one of the greatest policies and candidates that they will see in their lifetime. I guess they were glued to CNN or MSNBC or something. I hold all of you in contempt. No offense. 

[lannarebirth]

18 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"it doesn't matter all that much who wins the next presidential election."

 

Disagree.

 

"the Democrats just proposed a Bill to bail out lobbyists and "Dark Money" contributors."

 

Details?

 

Quote

 

Problematic provisions in the bill include:

• 501(c)6 trade associations, which is the institutional vehicle for corporate lobbying. 
• A Dark Money Group Bailout: The bill extends Paycheck Protection Program funds available to 501(c)4 trade associations, which is the institutional vehicle for dark money political spending. 
• A Corporate Lobbyist Bailout: The bill makes Paycheck Protection Program funds available to

 

https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2020/05/12/dont-double-down-failure-vote-no-heroes-act

 

 

 

•  

[heybruce]

40 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2020/05/12/dont-double-down-failure-vote-no-heroes-act

 

 

 

•  

Anything that features Tucker Carlson has a credibility problem with me.

 

Your source seems primarily concerned with the fact that the bill did not specifically exclude some businesses from government assistance.  If the bill had gone into that level of detail it would have never gotten to vote.  Also, I don't know how repealing a tax deduction benefits the wealthy.  Tax deductions usually benefit the wealthy.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Agree, Trump is an utter moron and a pretty repugnant person. It just goes to show how pathetic/unelectable the candidates the Democrats keep putting up are. I am not sure how no one in the Democrats can see how far they are missing public sentiment by.  (See UK example of Labour party and Corbyn).

 

I am sure that 50% of the votes the Democrats do get is protest votes against Trump rather than voters liking the Democrats candidates. If they put up someone even moderately electable they would win by a landslide. Surely the democrats in a population of 330 million, can find one person who is youngish, charismatic and does not have issues with memory, the bottle or playful hands.

Surely the democrats in a population of 330 million, can find one person who is youngish, charismatic and does not have issues with memory, the bottle or playful hands.

 

As I've noted before the intrusive and abusive media means that no sane person with a family will touch the position of POTUS even with a very long barge pole. Who in their right mind would willingly submit themselves and their family to the sort of media assault given to Trump, and I can't see it changing.

[smutcakes]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Surely the democrats in a population of 330 million, can find one person who is youngish, charismatic and does not have issues with memory, the bottle or playful hands.

 

As I've noted before the intrusive and abusive media means that no sane person with a family will touch the position of POTUS even with a very long barge pole. Who in their right mind would willingly submit themselves and their family to the sort of media assault given to Trump, and I can't see it changing.

To be fair DT does not exactly help himself.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

As I've stated before:  If you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you get the greater evil.

 

The best fix to the entrenched two party system that caters to extremes is the rank order voting system, also known as the ranked choice voting system.  It's used in some localities and Maine, as well as several democratic countries (Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and others).  Instead of rewarding candidates for catering to extreme elements of their base, it encourages candidates to appeal to the broadest possible range of voters.

 

Changing the accepted voting method will be a hard sell, but it could be done on a state by state basis until most of the country gets the hang of it.

Speaking as one in NZ, don't claim that the voting system we have is good. It's, IMO, an atrocity which allows unelected people to sit in parliament and is not democratic. First past the post as the UK still has is by far the best option, IMO. I thought you were in favour of the popular vote.

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Anything that features Tucker Carlson has a credibility problem with me.

 

Your source seems primarily concerned with the fact that the bill did not specifically exclude some businesses from government assistance.  If the bill had gone into that level of detail it would have never gotten to vote.  Also, I don't know how repealing a tax deduction benefits the wealthy.  Tax deductions usually benefit the wealthy.

 

Don't be obtuse. It is not about specifically excluding, it is about specifically INCLUDING. These organizations were not includedi in prior PPP bailouts. Nor were 501c3's (legitimate not for profit organizations). 501c4's and 501 c6's got snuck in with the legitimate (mostly charities) organizations. Don't be a political hack. Don't let me lose respect for you. Bad is bad, wherever it comes from.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

To be fair DT does not exactly help himself.

Perhaps, but IMO he enjoys putting barking stuff out there just to see the Dems go mental. Latest example is saying he uses that malaria drug for Corona.

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps, but IMO he enjoys putting barking stuff out there just to see the Dems go mental. Latest example is saying he uses that malaria drug for Corona.

To an extent, but i think you are probably giving him to much credit. i think he just says the 1st thing that comes into his head sometimes. US Politics is so polarized whatever he says one side will kick and scream and the other side will support him.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

No reasonable person could vote for Trump or Biden, unless Biden had a really fantastic VP choice, which doesn't seem likely. Someone else is really the only honorable thing to do.

That's entirely down to the Dems then. Unless they have cloned JFK seems they're stuck with Biden. So many have endorsed him including Obama it would be a major embarrassment if they now said they made a mistake.

[Sujo]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Speaking as one in NZ, don't claim that the voting system we have is good. It's, IMO, an atrocity which allows unelected people to sit in parliament and is not democratic. First past the post as the UK still has is by far the best option, IMO. I thought you were in favour of the popular vote.

But at least nz has a pm which has huge support.

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/jacinda-ardern-most-popular-new-zealand-pm-in-a-century-poll-reveals/news-story/a02a609483907ef32914f7900e0c9a9b

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

To an extent, but i think you are probably giving him to much credit. i think he just says the 1st thing that comes into his head sometimes. US Politics is so polarized whatever he says one side will kick and scream and the other side will support him.

Exactly. IMO he knows his base will not only support him regardless, but probably enjoy seeing him sticking it to the Dems. One reason that his base do like him is that he isn't just another political glove puppet that says nothing that isn't prepared and thoroughly vetted beforehand. He more like one of the guys down pub just saying a load of <deleted> like normal guys do. His "pussy" remarks probably helped him with his base more than hurt. I sure thought it was the end of his campaign, but I was wrong.

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's entirely down to the Dems then. Unless they have cloned JFK seems they're stuck with Biden. So many have endorsed him including Obama it would be a major embarrassment if they now said they made a mistake.

There is precedent for his removal. Hubert Humphrey became the 1968 Democratic candidate without ever winning a primary. Brokered convention.  Joe Biden became the Democrat nominee without ever leaving his basement! Democrats need a brokered convention. It's a little bit rare now, but not that unusual.

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly. IMO he knows his base will not only support him regardless, but probably enjoy seeing him sticking it to the Dems. One reason that his base do like him is that he isn't just another political glove puppet that says nothing that isn't prepared and thoroughly vetted beforehand. He more like one of the guys down pub just saying a load of <deleted> like normal guys do. His "pussy" remarks probably helped him with his base more than hurt. I sure thought it was the end of his campaign, but I was wrong.

Unless he is a political glove puppet and this is the role his puppeteers have decided he use.....

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Sujo said:

But at least nz has a pm which has huge support.

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/jacinda-ardern-most-popular-new-zealand-pm-in-a-century-poll-reveals/news-story/a02a609483907ef32914f7900e0c9a9b

That may change when the <deleted> she has inflicted on us comes out in the next few weeks. I wouldn't put too much stock in a poll at this point in time. She has been virtually the only politician in the public eye since she locked us up and destroyed our economy, so will have to wear whatever criticism comes, alone.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Unless he is a political glove puppet and this is the role his puppeteers have decided he use.....

That's entirely possible. I had more respect for him before he became an establishment politician. I had hoped he would bring the hounds of hell to the congress, but sadly not so far. Perhaps in his second term he will cry havoc and let them loose.

Edited May 19, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

There is precedent for his removal. Hubert Humphrey became the 1968 Democratic candidate without ever winning a primary. Brokered convention.  Joe Biden became the Democrat nominee without ever leaving his basement! Democrats need a brokered convention. It's a little bit rare now, but not that unusual.

If in fact the Dems have a surprise candidate waiting in the wings I'd expect they'll try and get him to resign rather than assassinate him at convention. That would just alienate all the voters that chose him.

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If in fact the Dems have a surprise candidate waiting in the wings I'd expect they'll try and get him to resign rather than assassinate him at convention. That would just alienate all the voters that chose him.

 

The thing is, nobody really wants him. Ask these people. Do they really want Joe Biden? I get it, that they don't want Trump. But do they really want Joe Biden? I don't think so.

[heybruce]

47 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Speaking as one in NZ, don't claim that the voting system we have is good. It's, IMO, an atrocity which allows unelected people to sit in parliament and is not democratic. First past the post as the UK still has is by far the best option, IMO. I thought you were in favour of the popular vote.

I don't claim the system of government in New Zealand, or anywhere else, is perfect.  I simply maintain that rank choice voting allows people to identify the person or party they think is best, while also allowing them to identify a second choice, third, etc., all the way down to the last choice.  It is a way to drive candidates to the center and to keep out the most unpopular candidate.

 

One can be in favor of the popular vote and rank choice.  Rank choice can also work with the current electoral system, though I would like to get rid of that.