UK plans cut in Huawei's 5G network involvement - newspaper report

[johnpetersen]

35 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Yup, almost as content as the North Koreans.

 

In the 2019 North Korean elections, voter turnout was reported at 99.99%, and that "unanimously" the voters cast their ballots in favor of the registered candidates, ie Kim Jong-Un and his toadies.

Comparing China to North Korea is just nuts. In North Korea the population regularly faces bouts of starvation. The economy is still very primitive. On the other hand China's economy has been growing rapidly and so has its middle class. Economic contentment busy a lot of satisfaction. Chinese citizens may not have political freedoms, but they certainly have a lot more freedom of expression than do North Koreans.  But then, who doesn't?. What a weird comparison.

[johnpetersen]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Chinese citizens are pretty content with their quality of life which is higher ranked than Italy and only 2 levels below USA. By 2025, China will overtake USA GDP. Don’t you know that they now socialist with capitalist characteristic with a central government. Maybe you should find out the definition of communist. Educational. 

You must have a pretty low opinion of socialism to call China socialist. You mean like Sweden or Norway? It has s very poor social safety net system, a judiciary which is entirely under the thumb of the Party, massive Internet and press censorship. And under Xi state enterprises are growing again at the expense of private enterprise which are being asked to invest or lend (i.e. donate) to state enterprises. Lots of ecomonists believe China is headed for a middle income trap. And while it's GDP may soon be larger than the US, keep in mind that its population is about 4 times that of the USA

[tribalfusion001]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Chinese citizens are pretty content with their quality of life which is higher ranked than Italy and only 2 levels below USA. By 2025, China will overtake USA GDP. Don’t you know that they now socialist with capitalist characteristic with a central government. Maybe you should find out the definition of communist. Educational. 

They have no choice as cannot elect their government. China won't overtake USA by GDP by 2015 either, you should fact check, rather than spread commie propaganda.

[Susco]

On 5/23/2020 at 2:07 PM, Matzzon said:

Why would I need to believe that? It´s the modern and the high quality technology they are after, nothing else. After that it´s up to the customer to have control of the system and protect themself.

Do you mind I roll over the floor laughing, especially about the last line

[Burma Bill]

22 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

While the US has been spending on guns ,bombs and aircraft carrier the Chinese have been developing infrastructure.Now the Yanks realize they are behind in 5g. So because they can't beat them they try to screw them.

Rubbish!

[Susco]

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

I thought all the cell towers were burned down due to causing the virus..

 

The 5G towers obviously can't spread the virus.

 

The virus was created to make 5G towers a necessity, because you can't track people adequately without 5G.

 

So the whole purpose of the virus was to create an environment where big brother takes the upper hand.

 

 

[RickBradford]

48 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

Comparing China to North Korea is just nuts.

Please explain the differences between their political systems, regarding their freedom to speak up and be counted when going against the regime,s official pronouncements, which was the comparison I was making.

[Eric Loh]

46 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

You must have a pretty low opinion of socialism to call China socialist. You mean like Sweden or Norway? It has s very poor social safety net system, a judiciary which is entirely under the thumb of the Party, massive Internet and press censorship. And under Xi state enterprises are growing again at the expense of private enterprise which are being asked to invest or lend (i.e. donate) to state enterprises. Lots of ecomonists believe China is headed for a middle income trap. And while it's GDP may soon be larger than the US, keep in mind that its population is about 4 times that of the USA

No social welfare system is the same. China’s social welfare system progression from its “iron rice bowl” in the past to “cradle to grave” and current coverage for education. health, labor etc. Details that you can obtain from public domain. SOE has been focus of much reform to reduce their inefficiency and profitability and the current reforms involved mixed ownership. SOE generated an increases in profitability last year. Again you can glean from public domain. Increasing GDP is not about population but the policies of the government and how they deploy capital. In China case, it’s their investments in R&D and infrastructure. There is no such thing as a free press and even social media. As for economic woes ahead, I can say that current China/US spat will hurt economies of both countries and the contagion will hurt the world. 

[gargamon]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:02 PM, rooster59 said:

The United States has raised security concerns about Huawei equipment, and warned that allies that use it in their networks risked being cut off from valuable intelligence sharing feeds.

All this turmoil is because Huawei refuses to allow the US to put backdoors in it's equipment that would allow the US to monitor all communications. The US doesn't like this and has created a story that is not backed up by fact.

 

I worked for a large telecom equipment provider in the 80's and 90's and they did the same with us. At least Huawei has more backbone than we did.

[rabas]

33 minutes ago, gargamon said:

All this turmoil is because Huawei refuses to allow the US to put backdoors in it's equipment that would allow the US to monitor all communications. The US doesn't like this and has created a story that is not backed up by fact.

 

I worked for a large telecom equipment provider in the 80's and 90's and they did the same with us. At least Huawei has more backbone than we did.

They all do, not just the US. I had the chance to work with 2 telecom companies in my time, one was fixed wireless we sold thoughout Asia, first was ATT long ago. From what I saw the less democratic the country, the more demands they made on deals to better spy on their own citizens. Great stories to tell.

 

You had better believe that Huawei, funded and controlled by the CCP and used in China, is some of the best designed equipment for spying in the world. 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by rabas

[nattaya09]

23 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

While the US has been spending on guns ,bombs and aircraft carrier the Chinese have been developing infrastructure.Now the Yanks realize they are behind in 5g. So because they can't beat them they try to screw them.

China spends a ton on military....a lot more than they acknowledge. They are building a lot more ships than US over the last couple of decades. US Defense is about 3.5% of GDP but much of that is spent maintaining bases in some 40 countries, many post WWII Cold War relics 

Edited May 24, 2020 by nattaya09

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Burma Bill said:

Rubbish!

And why is it rubbish?

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, nattaya09 said:

China spends a ton on military....a lot more than they acknowledge. They are building a lot more ships than US over the last couple of decades. US Defense is about 3.5% of GDP but much of that is spent maintaining bases in some 40 countries, many post WWII Cold War relics 

Yes, so? They are also spending a lot more on infrastructure, which is what the poster you replied to said.

[Crazy Alex]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, so? They are also spending a lot more on infrastructure, which is what the poster you replied to said.

That may be true, but given China's numerous abandoned cities, it's not necessarily impressive or a good thing.

[3NUMBAS]

repatriation of everything made in china back home is on the cards ,it wont be business as usual

[nattaya09]

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, so? They are also spending a lot more on infrastructure, which is what the poster you replied to said.

Yes, Infrastructure was part of his sentence. But I was commenting on the military component of his post. Trump is a builder and has repeatedly talked about an infrastructure bill. The Democrats have also talked favorably about it. The latter control the money and aren't going the pass a big infrastructure bill as long as they hold the House and Trump sits in the Oval Office.

[nattaya09]

12 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

repatriation of everything made in china back home is on the cards ,it wont be business as usual

The US sure as hell needs to place production of critical care equipment in a place under it's own oversight

[Stadtler]

2 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

You must have a pretty low opinion of socialism to call China socialist. You mean like Sweden or Norway? It has s very poor social safety net system, a judiciary which is entirely under the thumb of the Party, massive Internet and press censorship. And under Xi state enterprises are growing again at the expense of private enterprise which are being asked to invest or lend (i.e. donate) to state enterprises. Lots of ecomonists believe China is headed for a middle income trap. And while it's GDP may soon be larger than the US, keep in mind that its population is about 4 times that of the USA

Don't fall for the obvious gas lighting.

[Stadtler]

1 hour ago, gargamon said:

All this turmoil is because Huawei refuses to allow the US to put backdoors in it's equipment that would allow the US to monitor all communications. The US doesn't like this and has created a story that is not backed up by fact.

Prove this statement.

[Crazy Alex]

3 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

And while it's GDP may soon be larger than the US, keep in mind that its population is about 4 times that of the USA

Excellent point to bring up. GDP per capita in the US is triple that of China.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

 

But as you know, communism is a GDP killer. If only everyone else realized this.

[rabas]

23 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Excellent point to bring up. GDP per capita in the US is triple that of China.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

 

But as you know, communism is a GDP killer. If only everyone else realized this.

Good point but also note there are two concepts used for GDP.

 

1. Nominal GDP, the more important of the two based on exchange rates. In a sense, this is the power of a country in the world.

2. PPP GDP is a purchasing  power parity GDP, a bit like how many toasters can each country produce for their own citizens. 

 

The US is still a fair way ahead of China in terms of the important nominal GDP. I have read, but don't know if I believe, that China may never catch up to the US in terms of real nominal GDP. (per country, not per capita) Obviously the US is way beyond China per capita.  Those cheering China often quote PPP GDP, understandably. In truth, each GDP has some advantages.

 

China vs US nominal GPD (not per capita):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

 

[johnpetersen]

8 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

No social welfare system is the same. China’s social welfare system progression from its “iron rice bowl” in the past to “cradle to grave” and current coverage for education. health, labor etc. Details that you can obtain from public domain. SOE has been focus of much reform to reduce their inefficiency and profitability and the current reforms involved mixed ownership. SOE generated an increases in profitability last year. Again you can glean from public domain. Increasing GDP is not about population but the policies of the government and how they deploy capital. In China case, it’s their investments in R&D and infrastructure. There is no such thing as a free press and even social media. As for economic woes ahead, I can say that current China/US spat will hurt economies of both countries and the contagion will hurt the world. 

Your claim about China's social safety net is flatly untrue:

“ 'When a person has no medical insurance, unemployment insurance or endowment insurance, how can that person dare spend all their money?’ said Tang Jun, a sociology researcher with the China Academy of Social Sciences. ‘The Chinese people are a nationality that likes saving money…. Ordinary people will only feel relieved about consuming if they don’t have to worry about not having money when they get old and not having money to go to the hospital.’ ”

https://carnegieendowment.org/2013/03/07/does-china-need-social-safety-net-pub-51151

 

"According to research by the Rhodium Group, a consultancy firm, as of June 2018, the average return on assets among SOEs was 3.9 percent, compared with 9.9 percent for private firms. They accounted for 28 percent of China’s industrial assets but contributed to only 18 percent of the total profit. Further, they racked up RMB 100 trillion (US$15 trillion) in debt by the end of 2017, equivalent to 120 percent of the national GDP."

"Today, the government’s agenda for SOE reforms combines SOE corporate governance with the institutionalization of Party leadership within SOEs."

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-soe-reform-process/

[johnpetersen]

5 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Excellent point to bring up. GDP per capita in the US is triple that of China.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

 

But as you know, communism is a GDP killer. If only everyone else realized this.

Well, if Communism is a GDP killer, then I guess China ain't communist. It's one thing to point out the flaws in China's economy, quite another to claim it's dying.

[rabas]

7 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

Your claim about China's social safety net is flatly untrue:

“ 'When a person has no medical insurance, unemployment insurance or endowment insurance, how can that person dare spend all their money?’ said Tang Jun, a sociology researcher with the China Academy of Social Sciences. ‘The Chinese people are a nationality that likes saving money…. Ordinary people will only feel relieved about consuming if they don’t have to worry about not having money when they get old and not having money to go to the hospital.’ ”

https://carnegieendowment.org/2013/03/07/does-china-need-social-safety-net-pub-51151

 

"According to research by the Rhodium Group, a consultancy firm, as of June 2018, the average return on assets among SOEs was 3.9 percent, compared with 9.9 percent for private firms. They accounted for 28 percent of China’s industrial assets but contributed to only 18 percent of the total profit. Further, they racked up RMB 100 trillion (US$15 trillion) in debt by the end of 2017, equivalent to 120 percent of the national GDP."

"Today, the government’s agenda for SOE reforms combines SOE corporate governance with the institutionalization of Party leadership within SOEs."

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-soe-reform-process/

Welcome.

[candide]

8 hours ago, rabas said:

They all do, not just the US. I had the chance to work with 2 telecom companies in my time, one was fixed wireless we sold thoughout Asia, first was ATT long ago. From what I saw the less democratic the country, the more demands they made on deals to better spy on their own citizens. Great stories to tell.

 

You had better believe that Huawei, funded and controlled by the CCP and used in China, is some of the best designed equipment for spying in the world. 

 

Well, in China, they don't really 'spy' as it's quite official and everybody knows about it. Any data that goes through networks is checked and monitored, and all CCTVs are connected to the network and also linked to face recognition systems.

Having said that, the US have good reasons to suspect that backdoors may be used as they did the same in China with Cisco routers.

Actually the risk is not so much about backdoors, as there are ways to check it. The risk is more that there may be a few hidden lines of code allowing to shut the network down.

[candide]

5 hours ago, rabas said:

Good point but also note there are two concepts used for GDP.

 

1. Nominal GDP, the more important of the two based on exchange rates. In a sense, this is the power of a country in the world.

2. PPP GDP is a purchasing  power parity GDP, a bit like how many toasters can each country produce for their own citizens. 

 

The US is still a fair way ahead of China in terms of the important nominal GDP. I have read, but don't know if I believe, that China may never catch up to the US in terms of real nominal GDP. (per country, not per capita) Obviously the US is way beyond China per capita.  Those cheering China often quote PPP GDP, understandably. In truth, each GDP has some advantages.

 

China vs US nominal GPD (not per capita):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

 

You are right but average GDP doesn't make sense for China, as there are very big differences between regions. One part of China is still a developing country, but the other part is starting to be quite developed. And this part is already larger than any developed country.

[Crazy Alex]

47 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

Well, if Communism is a GDP killer, then I guess China ain't communist. It's one thing to point out the flaws in China's economy, quite another to claim it's dying.

I never claimed China is dying, nor do I believe that. Free countries have higher GDP over communist countries, no matter what angle you look at it from.

[Crazy Alex]

17 minutes ago, candide said:

Well, in China, they don't really 'spy' as it's quite official and everybody knows about it. Any data that goes through networks is checked and monitored, and all CCTVs are connected to the network and also linked to face recognition systems.

Having said that, the US have good reasons to suspect that backdoors may be used as they did the same in China with Cisco routers.

Actually the risk is not so much about backdoors, as there are ways to check it. The risk is more that there may be a few hidden lines of code allowing to shut the network down.

I'm not a programming geek (using "geek" in an endearing way), maybe you can help me understand. Are some methods to disrupt easier to spot and remedy than others?

Edited May 24, 2020 by Crazy Alex

[Matzzon]

10 hours ago, Susco said:

Do you mind I roll over the floor laughing, especially about the last line

Not at all. Have fun.

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, nattaya09 said:

Yes, Infrastructure was part of his sentence. But I was commenting on the military component of his post. Trump is a builder and has repeatedly talked about an infrastructure bill. The Democrats have also talked favorably about it. The latter control the money and aren't going the pass a big infrastructure bill as long as they hold the House and Trump sits in the Oval Office.

Which was not his point.

Democrats wanted to do infrastructure, but the Trump budget policy (increase the deficit while the economy is doing well) put a lot of pressure on plans, and now the deficit has gone through the roof.