Attack on Taiwan an option to stop independence, top China general says

[Brunolem]

7 hours ago, misterjames said:

I'm non American and my answer is yes America has been good for me because I am not having my organs harvested by the CCP just yet that's one thing we can thank the yanks for.

 

All the people talking about US military spending need to remember that it's probably the one thing that is keeping us from becoming Chinese slaves at this point.

 

You listen to too much propaganda. 

 

Since 1945, how many countries have the Chinese invaded and occupied? 

 

And what about the Americans? 

 

Sure enough, they are a "force of good", and they bomb countries to help them see the light and bring them democracy, something they don't even have at home (only a parody of it). 

 

This doesn't mean that China is good, it certainly isn't, but in the end actions matter most than intentions.

 

The US probably didn't destroy large parts of the Middle East, killing hundreds of thousands in the process, to protect them from China... 

[ChipButty]

Now it seems the Chinese want to pick a fight with India as both countries amassing troops and equipment along the line of control

[ExpatOilWorker]

24 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

You listen to too much propaganda. 

 

Since 1945, how many countries have the Chinese invaded and occupied? 

 

And what about the Americans? 

 

Sure enough, they are a "force of good", and they bomb countries to help them see the light and bring them democracy, something they don't even have at home (only a parody of it). 

 

This doesn't mean that China is good, it certainly isn't, but in the end actions matter most than intentions.

 

The US probably didn't destroy large parts of the Middle East, killing hundreds of thousands in the process, to protect them from China... 

That is because communism is a weak and corrupt system. They starve people to death of the tune of 30 million. Steam roll students with tanks at their town square, then erase it from their history books.

The west also do mistakes, but we openly debate it and make documentaries and movies out of past events. 

 

[TKDfella]

20 hours ago, sukhumvitneon said:

Don't care about HK.  The WSJ published an editorial the other day saying the US should offer visas to Hong Kongers to "escape" HK.  Lol no, if anything the UK should take them all back, it was their colony.  Don't care about Taiwan either, China can have it, there's way more pressing issues happening domestically at this point.  But anyone who thinks the Chinese military could defeat the US in a Taiwan conflict needs to get their head out of their rear end

Don't think it's that straight forward As far as the UK is concerned (they have 300,000 citizenship I believe?) yes they should shoulder most of the responsibility. But that isn't really the point...the point is the UK may not be physically large enough to accommodate them to the level of care required.

With regard to the US being defeated in a Taiwan conflict, is not the point either. I would venture to say that the US military cares about its personnel far more than does the Chinese military about their own. The US military would heed cries from home about any strong conflict in Taiwan whereas the Chinese government wouldn't even listen or allow such a thing.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

You listen to too much propaganda. 

 

Since 1945, how many countries have the Chinese invaded and occupied? 

 

And what about the Americans? 

 

Sure enough, they are a "force of good", and they bomb countries to help them see the light and bring them democracy, something they don't even have at home (only a parody of it). 

 

This doesn't mean that China is good, it certainly isn't, but in the end actions matter most than intentions.

 

The US probably didn't destroy large parts of the Middle East, killing hundreds of thousands in the process, to protect them from China... 

Ever heard of Tibet?

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ever heard of Tibet?

What about Tibet. They have been part of China since the 18th century. 

[Brunolem]

38 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ever heard of Tibet?

Sure, nothing to be proud of.

 

Now, have you ever heard of Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, or Somalia?

[misterjames]

6 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Sure, nothing to be proud of.

 

Now, have you ever heard of Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, or Somalia?

China invades via stealth just look at what they are doing now to Australia and Africa, India, Tibet, Philippines etc etc also you seem to have also forgotten the Sino-Vietnamese war where they attacked Vietnam to support their allies the Khmer Rouge that killed millions of people.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by misterjames

[RocketDog]

On 6/1/2020 at 5:27 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Do tell.

They rebelled against Britain to become independent, and after that set about building their own "empire". Other than taking in immigrants to populate the land with people more friendly than the original inhabitants they have, IMO, been more isolationist than a "model" of whatever label people wish to put on them.

 

It's amusing, in a horrible sort of way, that people are now looking to America to militarily support Taiwan, when the chorus before was for America to stop getting involved in wars overseas.

Umm, there were those minor examples of America providing some modest aid to Europe and England during the two world wars. I have a strong sense that German would be the dominant language in a large part of the world otherwise. 

Your inability to acknowledge this fact greatly diminishes the credibility of your smug opinion.

 

I agree with you on one thing though. It is/has been a mistake for other countries to expect America to step in to solve all the world's problems. These issues should be globally joint efforts.

If you object to isolationism then feel free to join the fray as something more than an armchair general. A superb beginning would be for Europe to take full responsibility for their own defense and project stronger support for the UN. Make it your personal goal to render America's isolationism irrelevant to global peace and prosperity. 

 

I know, minor details. 

[spidermike007]

On 5/29/2020 at 7:27 PM, robblok said:

I doubt the USA or any other country will stand against China for Taiwan. There is no oil there or other things the US can use. Also its not an easy victory for the US (they would probably give up after losing too many people). Nuclear attack.. highly doubt it again. In the end Taiwan will just be Chinese.

 

I wish it were different but dont think anyone will help or is able to help. The Chinese have all the advantages.

 

They US is certainly not standing with Hong Kong are they? They can no longer be considered a trusted ally. Why would they stand up for Taiwan, unless they wanted war with China? What is really astonishing, is that the US used to have some moral authority, and would and could at least make a case for democracy, and the defense of it. How far they have fallen from that perch. Not only was there little to no defense of the Hong Kong protests, but now they are abandoning them completely. And with the stuff that is going on in the US right now, they can barely afford to lecture China about freedom.

 

And it seems the ever desperate leadership in China, wastes no opportunity to lecture others. They are hungry for power, more territory and will stop at nothing to achieve their goal of world supremacy. From the Chinese point of view, they are simply trying to re-establish their place in history. From the 8th to about the early to mid 18th century, China was a world superpower. 

[robblok]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

 

They US is certainly not standing with Hong Kong are they? They can no longer be considered a trusted ally. Why would they stand up for Taiwan, unless they wanted war with China? What is really astonishing, is that the US used to have some moral authority, and would and could at least make a case for democracy, and the defense of it. How far they have fallen from that perch. Not only was there little to no defense of the Hong Kong protests, but now they are abandoning them completely. And with the stuff that is going on in the US right now, they can barely afford to lecture China about freedom.

 

And it seems the ever desperate leadership in China, wastes no opportunity to lecture others. They are hungry for power, more territory and will stop at nothing to achieve their goal of world supremacy. From the Chinese point of view, they are simply trying to re-establish their place in history. From the 8th to about the early to mid 18th century, China was a world superpower. 

Yes i remember the US having a moral authority and I used to believe them. It all stopped for me after the gulf war and not finding chemical weapons. Also their constant wars in the middle east and then let Europe take care of the refugees. 

 

I used to really respect the USA now i see it as a money grabbing country with a mental midget as a leader. (mind you I have no problem with Americans on a private level)

[Logosone]

Communism is one of the greatest evils humanity has ever known.

 

The Chinese communist party, as Expatoilworker pointed out, has starved between 20-43 million of its own people through its idiotic policies.

 

Having been to Taiwan and having seen first hand what a beautiful island Taiwan is, how delightful their people are, I just hope China is not stupid enough to attack that gorgeous island. If they do, with Trump in the White House there is no doubt that the response would be overwhelming.

 

 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Yes i remember the US having a moral authority and I used to believe them. It all stopped for me after the gulf war and not finding chemical weapons. Also their constant wars in the middle east and then let Europe take care of the refugees. 

 

I used to really respect the USA now i see it as a money grabbing country with a mental midget as a leader. (mind you I have no problem with Americans on a private level)

Well, as an American, I can say your view of the US is fairly accurate. And I feel the same way about Americans. A lot of good people, with good hearts. Alot of bad people too (mostly empty suited white men in my opinion), but on the whole the majority are quite decent. The Gulf war was an abomination. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Bush Jr. were so completely disingenuous about the whole thing, they deserve as little respect as we can possibly direct their way. They have collectively made the world an infinitely less safe place, with their Afghan and Iraqi interventions. And they not only put the US into a $7-10 trillion hole, they accomplished nothing, and if anything made the region less stable. If they were sincere, they would have been going after enemy number one and two. The Saudis, and the Pakistanis. But, all they could muster up was a fake war, against a fake enemy, who they assumed would easily fall, and 17 hapless years later, they are still trying to extricate themselves from the same mess countless other empires comprised of hubris and astonishing arrogance, have found themselves in. 

 

The promotion of democracy is an outdated model. People have to evolve on their own. You cannot force it upon them, especially not a from a nation that is practicing an incredibly flawed version of it, and has so many systemic and cultural problems of it's own. Guys like Trump like to gloss over the issues, and pretend that America is great. It is anything but great. Sure they are number one in Covid, and number one in civil unrest, at the moment. But great? Maybe great producers of cultural trash like reality TV. Maybe great producers of over bloated, theme park type, highly repetitive tent pole films, made for the Chinese audience, and 8-16 year olds at home. But a great nation? If they were great, that is in the rear view. There is no way to make the nation great again. It is an empire in decline, and there is no fixing that. You can slow it down, by embracing some progressive and intelligent policies. But, you cannot stop it. 

[CorpusChristie]

26 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

They US is certainly not standing with Hong Kong are they? They can no longer be considered a trusted ally. Why would they stand up for Taiwan, unless they wanted war with China? What is really astonishing, is that the US used to have some moral authority, and would and could at least make a case for democracy, and the defense of it. How far they have fallen from that perch. Not only was there little to no defense of the Hong Kong protests, but now they are abandoning them completely. And with the stuff that is going on in the US right now, they can barely afford to lecture China about freedom.

 

And it seems the ever desperate leadership in China, wastes no opportunity to lecture others. They are hungry for power, more territory and will stop at nothing to achieve their goal of world supremacy. From the Chinese point of view, they are simply trying to re-establish their place in history. From the 8th to about the early to mid 18th century, China was a world superpower. 

You just know that if Trump confronts China over the Honk Kong issue  , people will accuse Trump of war mongering and trying to a start a war with China in order for him to win the next election .

   Remember the reaction when Trump confronted North Korea ?

Whatever Trump does or says , some people will just say he should have done the opposite and criticise him for it 

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

You just know that if Trump confronts China over the Honk Kong issue  , people will accuse Trump of war mongering and trying to a start a war with China in order for him to win the next election .

   Remember the reaction when Trump confronted North Korea ?

Whatever Trump does or says , some people will just say he should have done the opposite and criticise him for it 

And there is perfectly good reason for that. He has engaged in absolutely abominable foreign policy, since day one. And now Pompeo? Talk about a BOB (bottom of the barrel) pick. 

[phkauf]

37 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

They US is certainly not standing with Hong Kong are they? They can no longer be considered a trusted ally. Why would they stand up for Taiwan, unless they wanted war with China? What is really astonishing, is that the US used to have some moral authority, and would and could at least make a case for democracy, and the defense of it. How far they have fallen from that perch. Not only was there little to no defense of the Hong Kong protests, but now they are abandoning them completely. And with the stuff that is going on in the US right now, they can barely afford to lecture China about freedom.

HK and Taiwan are completely different situations. HK is in fact part of China and more or less an internal matter of China - I am in NO WAY supportive of China's behavior but this is the situation. It's as if a foreign government decided to attack America because of a problem in Puerto Rico. The UK is more responsible for trying to enforce their agreement with China than the US to wage war. Otherwise the US Gov't is doing the correct thing by putting as much financial pressure on HK and China to make their recent move as painful as possible. The US, Canada and Australia/NZ should also follow the UK's lead by offering HK resident's visas and a path to citizenship - that would see a massive brain drain from the territory.

Taiwan on the other hand is an Independent Country (not a province of China) and has a longstanding treaty with the US. If China were to invade Taiwan it would provoke a massive response by the US and many other allies. I have zero doubt that Trump would strike back fast and hard - Obama on the other would have lead from the rear as he did in Libya. Biden would be staring at his cereal bowl trying to make words out of his AlphaBits.

[Logosone]

4 minutes ago, phkauf said:

HK and Taiwan are completely different situations. HK is in fact part of China and more or less an internal matter of China - I am in NO WAY supportive of China's behavior but this is the situation. It's as if a foreign government decided to attack America because of a problem in Puerto Rico. The UK is more responsible for trying to enforce their agreement with China than the US to wage war. Otherwise the US Gov't is doing the correct thing by putting as much financial pressure on HK and China to make their recent move as painful as possible. The US, Canada and Australia/NZ should also follow the UK's lead by offering HK resident's visas and a path to citizenship - that would see a massive brain drain from the territory.

Taiwan on the other hand is an Independent Country (not a province of China) and has a longstanding treaty with the US. If China were to invade Taiwan it would provoke a massive response by the US and many other allies. I have zero doubt that Trump would strike back fast and hard - Obama on the other would have lead from the rear as he did in Libya. Biden would be staring at his cereal bowl trying to make words out of his AlphaBits.

Excellent post.

 

It would appear that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan is exceedingly unlikely as China lacks the capabilities:

 

"In its 2019 report to Congress, the US Department of Defense said China -- which has one of the largest navies in Asia -- had at its command 37 amphibious transport docks and 22 smaller landing ships, as well as any civilian vessels Beijing could enlist.

 

That might be enough to occupy smaller islands, such as those in the South China Sea, but an amphibious assault on Taiwan would likely require a bigger arsenal -- and there is "no indication China is significantly expanding its landing ship force," the report said."

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/23/asia/taiwan-china-invasion-intl-hnk/index.html

 

If you think about it, China occupying Taiwan, even if successful, would result in China becoming a pariah state internationally. Yet Chinas entire policy of the silk road, securing international raw materials, all this requires a favourable international status.

 

It just doesn't make sense for China to invade. 

 

The chances of this ending in a humiliating failure for China are also huge. Taiwan would only need to sink 40% of the amphibious vessels, about 14 ships.

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Logosone said:

Excellent post.

 

It would appear that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan is exceedingly unlikely as China lacks the capabilities:

 

"In its 2019 report to Congress, the US Department of Defense said China -- which has one of the largest navies in Asia -- had at its command 37 amphibious transport docks and 22 smaller landing ships, as well as any civilian vessels Beijing could enlist.

 

That might be enough to occupy smaller islands, such as those in the South China Sea, but an amphibious assault on Taiwan would likely require a bigger arsenal -- and there is "no indication China is significantly expanding its landing ship force," the report said."

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/23/asia/taiwan-china-invasion-intl-hnk/index.html

 

If you think about it, China occupying Taiwan, even if successful, would result in China becoming a pariah state internationally. Yet Chinas entire policy of the silk road, securing international raw materials, all this requires a favourable international status.

 

It just doesn't make sense for China to invade. 

 

The chances of this ending in a humiliating failure for China are also huge. Taiwan would only need to sink 40% of the amphibious vessels, about 14 ships.

Never forget the "tin can" campaign in the PI. The US sent several small, poorly armed ships against the biggest and strongest of what Japan had to offer. Admiral Kurita, though he had the best ship in the fleet under him, turned out to be a coward, a terrible tactician, and a total loser. Afterwards, Japan took whatever remaining ships and soldiers they had, and sailed West.

 

However, even though the US army is alot more modern than it was back then, when you consider how badly the US has messed up the response to Covid, combined with the current situation there, and add in the fact that no matter how big and powerful their army might be, they have not won a war since WWII, not sure they are the best ally to have. Also, they have grown notoriously unreliable these days. 

 

I think you are right that China is all bluster right now. And they are hugely untested, with their new military. But, this is leading up to something. China wants to regain the supremacy they enjoyed over the seas as a major superpower, for nearly 1,000 years (about 925 years longer than the US, as of now) from about the 8th century, to the early to mid 18th century. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by spidermike007

[Logosone]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Never forget the "tin can" campaign in the PI. The US sent several small, poorly armed ships against the biggest and strongest of what Japan had to offer. Admiral Kurita, though he had the best ship in the fleet under him, turned out to be a coward, a terrible tactician, and a total loser. Afterwards, Japan took whatever remaining ships and soldiers they had, and sailed West.

 

However, even though the US army is alot more modern than it was back then, when you consider how badly the US has messed up the response to Covid, combined with the current situation there, and add in the fact that no matter how big and powerful their army might be, they have not won a war since WWII, not sure they are the best ally to have. Also, they have grown notoriously unreliable these days. 

 

I think you are right that China is all bluster right now. And they are hugely untested, with their new military. But, this is leading up to something. China wants to regain the supremacy they enjoyed over the seas as a major superpower, for nearly 1,000 years (about 925 years longer than the US, as of now) from about the 8th century, to the early to mid 18th century. 

Well, that's just the thing, everyone knows the Americans aren't cowards. If you provoke America, ultimately it is usually the case you will pay a heavy price. This was actually always the case after WWII, under any US president.

 

Sure, the Covid19 response was poor on account of the CDC producing tests too late, but that's a different ball game to military affairs. Yes, the US has made some mistakes militarily since 1945, but they have demonstrated with the invasion of Iraq recently that they are capable of fast and decisive military intervention.

 

The US army is still the most powerful in the world. And China knows this. The US is not a reliable ally in the sense that they will follow their self interest rather than allegiances. However, weakening China is clearly in the US' self interest currently. An attack by China on Taiwan would play right into America's hands and I would not be so sure the US would not assist Taiwan. Neither can China be sure of this. So on the odd risk of this I think they are very careful about actually poking the American eagle.

 

Of course you are right that China is in the ascendancy again. But it is faced with this colossal antagonist, the USA, which only a fool would challenge in a hot war. And the Chinese are no fools.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Logosone

[phkauf]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

But, this is leading up to something. China wants to regain the supremacy they enjoyed over the seas as a major superpower, for nearly 1,000 years (about 925 years longer than the US, as of now) from about the 8th century, to the early to mid 18th century. 

A history lesson would be useful. For all the dominance China supposedly had during this time, they were remarkably absent from most of S.E. Asia during this time frame. The Khmer and Burmese were the great powers in the region. The Chinese got kicked out of Vietnam in 938 AD, so maybe you are thinking the centuries before that. Japan dominated the northern Asian region during most of this time as well with control of Korea and Manchuria. China was mostly at war with itself during the period you mention and at constant threat of invasion. For all the supposed dominance of China, they folded pretty quickly when confronted by the Western powers in the 17th and 18th centuries.

Since the US has only been in existence for less than 250 years, you do have a point that China may have been around longer. I'll grant you that much as accurate.

[spidermike007]

40 minutes ago, phkauf said:

A history lesson would be useful. For all the dominance China supposedly had during this time, they were remarkably absent from most of S.E. Asia during this time frame. The Khmer and Burmese were the great powers in the region. The Chinese got kicked out of Vietnam in 938 AD, so maybe you are thinking the centuries before that. Japan dominated the northern Asian region during most of this time as well with control of Korea and Manchuria. China was mostly at war with itself during the period you mention and at constant threat of invasion. For all the supposed dominance of China, they folded pretty quickly when confronted by the Western powers in the 17th and 18th centuries.

Since the US has only been in existence for less than 250 years, you do have a point that China may have been around longer. I'll grant you that much as accurate.

Perhaps it is open to interpretation whether or not the Golden clans were Chinese. Most consider Genghis Khan and his sons  to have been Chinese. And considering that they ruled over 12 million square miles of land and his empire stretched from Costantinople to the Korea, that was a rather impressive Chinese achievement. 

[jimmybcool]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

They US is certainly not standing with Hong Kong are they? They can no longer be considered a trusted ally. Why would they stand up for Taiwan, unless they wanted war with China? 

Not a valid comparison IMO.  First off Hong King has never declared independence or was never populated by Chinese that fought against the communists.  Hong Kong has always been a part of China.  It was leased to England for 100 years and at the end of lease taken back.  So what was USA supposed to do?  And if they have sedition in HK why is the US not an ally?  Ally to who?  What treaty did the US ever sign with HK?  Answer is the US has no business intervening in HK.  England would be more appropriate since they created the economic zone there and they could ask for US assistance.  

 

Taiwan on the other hand has clearly operated outside of the communist regime and prepared to fight to retain independence from them.  The US also announced a treaty with Taiwan.  And recognized them as an independent nations.  One that does not guarantee military assistance if China attacks.  Taiwan is also a major trade partner with the USA.  Add to that the US has been running naval exercises with Taiwan and through the straits for years.

 

Will the US help Taiwan if China makes a military attack?  I've no idea.  Neither do you or the Chinese.  As I've said before it depends on many things not least of which who is president at the time.  If the Chinese really thought they could have taken Taiwan when the US stayed  out of it they would have done it during the Obama administration.  He was a China appeaser.  Pretty clear to me they know how painful it would be even if the US didn't help.  

 

 

 

[Heppinger]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

They have collectively made the world an infinitely less safe place, with their Afghan and Iraqi interventions. And they not only put the US into a $7-10 trillion hole, they accomplished nothing, and if anything made the region less stable.

Perhaps this was the objective all along a step towards the rebuilding of an ancient kingdom to its former glory from the Nile to the Euphrates.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Heppinger

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, jimmybcool said:

 Taiwan is also a major trade partner with the USA.  Add to that the US has been running naval exercises with Taiwan and through the straits for years.

 

Will the US help Taiwan if China makes a military attack?  I've no idea.  Neither do you or the Chinese.  As I've said before it depends on many things not least of which who is president at the time.  If the Chinese really thought they could have taken Taiwan when the US stayed  out of it they would have done it during the Obama administration.  He was a China appeaser.  Pretty clear to me they know how painful it would be even if the US didn't help.  

 

 

 

That's a good point. There are a lot of US investments in Taiwan. Just to protect those I suspect the US would intervene in any Chinese invasion.

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Perhaps it is open to interpretation whether or not the Golden clans were Chinese. Most consider Genghis Khan and his sons  to have been Chinese. And considering that they ruled over 12 million square miles of land and his empire stretched from Costantinople to the Korea, that was a rather impressive Chinese achievement. 

No, Genghis Khan was not Chinese, and most don't consider him as having been Chinese.

 

It is a bit of Chinese propaganda being put about today by the Chinese that he was Chinese. 

 

He wasn't of course.

 

https://www.jeremiahjenne.com/the-archives/2018/4/24/from-the-creative-history-files-genghis-khan-was-chinese

[TKDfella]

2 hours ago, phkauf said:

A history lesson would be useful. For all the dominance China supposedly had during this time, they were remarkably absent from most of S.E. Asia during this time frame. The Khmer and Burmese were the great powers in the region. The Chinese got kicked out of Vietnam in 938 AD, so maybe you are thinking the centuries before that. Japan dominated the northern Asian region during most of this time as well with control of Korea and Manchuria. China was mostly at war with itself during the period you mention and at constant threat of invasion. For all the supposed dominance of China, they folded pretty quickly when confronted by the Western powers in the 17th and 18th centuries.

Since the US has only been in existence for less than 250 years, you do have a point that China may have been around longer. I'll grant you that much as accurate.

Well, it seems that Taiwan's history is varied. Both the Dutch and Spaniards were there at some time as were the Quing dynasty and it was part of the Japanese Empire in the late 19th century. Like you say, China had many internal battles and I suspect gave little attention to the island. But of course the present Chinese rule wants just any land and every land it can lay its hands on.

Edited June 3, 2020 by TKDfella

[phkauf]

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Most consider Genghis Khan and his sons  to have been Chinese. And considering that they ruled over 12 million square miles of land and his empire stretched from Costantinople to the Korea, that was a rather impressive Chinese achievement. 

Khan was a Mongol. Definitely NOT Han Chinese, which is by far the dominant ethnic group in China and that of the ruling Emperors until the Mongols invaded. Fact: the Great Wall of China was built to stop the Mongols. 

And yes, China was dominant during this period, but when it was ruled by Non-Han Chinese. 

 

Someone's been drinking Emperor Xi's Kool-Aid a little too much lately.

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, Heppinger said:

Perhaps this was the objective all along a step towards the rebuilding of an ancient kingdom to its former glory from the Nile to the Euphrates.

One of the basic tenets of the neocons, was to destroy an area so thoroughly, that you completely erase any traces of it's ancient past, and rebuild it from scratch (essentially in your own image). That is why they let the museum in Baghdad, one of the most significant Mesopotamian museums in history to be looted to the extent they did. All it would have taken is having one tank parked out front. Instead the Golden Harp of Samaria was looted (perhaps it is currently in one of Cheney's mansions?) along with over 6,000 other works, many of them priceless. In the meantime, all care was taken to preserve the oil ministry building. 

 

Who knows what China has in mind? I do believe they will not stop until they achieve world domination, and I do believe it will happen. Nobody knows how long it will take, but one thing is for certain. The Chinese, unlike the Americans, are in this for the long game. 

[spidermike007]

40 minutes ago, phkauf said:

Khan was a Mongol. Definitely NOT Han Chinese, which is by far the dominant ethnic group in China and that of the ruling Emperors until the Mongols invaded. Fact: the Great Wall of China was built to stop the Mongols. 

And yes, China was dominant during this period, but when it was ruled by Non-Han Chinese. 

 

Someone's been drinking Emperor Xi's Kool-Aid a little too much lately.

 

There you go again. Contrary to the common perception of China being historically isolated and weak, many Chinese dynasties were very powerful and have had a profound impact on global history. Yes, it is true that during the Ming Dynasty, China ships conducted multiple voyages of exploration (1405-1433) before abruptly stopping. But this hardly dented the enormous economic and political influence China wielded for most of its history in East, Southeast, and Central Asia. Although the people of these regions pursued their own interests as best as they could, China was always the major power to be dealt with.

 

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-3-most-powerful-dynasties-12726

[ChakaKhan]

On 5/29/2020 at 5:08 PM, PatOngo said:

Seventy one years and they (the Chinese) still haven't grown the nuts to do it! The Taiwanese paranoia was quite evident though when I worked there in 2005. 

Thinking about visiting---how does it compare to LOS and cost  any info and tips welcome!