Unofficial 180--days a year stay rule enforcement after Amnesty

[Peter Denis]

I wonder how border-immigration will deal with the unofficial 180-days a year stay rule for 'genuine tourists', once the Amnesty is over. 

For sure most of those that entered VisaExempt or on a TouristVisa will have stayed more than 6 months consecutively in Thailand by the time the borders will open again.

But will they be able to do a border-run and return?

The sensible thing would be to view the whole Amnesty period as 'not counting' as it was a forced stay.  But not sure whether border-immigration would follow that logic.  And if they do not, this might create a problem for those that used up their 180 days per year because of the 4-5 months now already eaten by the Amnesty.

[Keyser Soze666]

Surely the vast majority of genuine tourists would have left once it was evident that Covid was a serious issue, they would have had enough time to do so??

[ubonjoe]

It was only a group of rogue immigration officers at airports the were bringing up the non existent 180 day rule.

I doubt they will be playing that game when flights into the country are allowed.

It did not happen at border crossings.

[Don Mega]

What unofficial 180-days a year stay rule ?

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, Don Mega said:

What unofficial 180-days a year stay rule ?

When entering Thailand via the Suvarnabhumi or DonMuang Airport, people applying for VisaExempt or wanting to enter on a Tourist Visa, were sometimes refused entry to the country (and having to fly back to where they embarked) because of 'staying too long in Thailand without a proper Visa'.  As UJ already mentioned, there is no such 180 days rule, but some rogue border-immigration officers looked at your previous stays in Thailand and if you had stayed longer than 180 days during the past year, you were considered not a 'genuine tourist' and were denied entry.

 

[madmaxx77]

Unfortunately, when the "rogue officers" apply their non-existent rules to YOU, the word "just" loses its meaning.

Especially if one has made a one day side trip to KL to avoid "the convenient solution" of only 9 days overstay - would have been the first one after 24 years of visits to Thailand (yes that includes the times when the fine was only 100 THB, still a lot for a working local) - with only his toothbrush but all the paperwork in order (confirmed booking to Berlin, Confirmed booking in Amari Hotel, more than 20000 THB in cash) and get deported like a criminal, at his own expenses, has to almost sneak in at a barely known border post with Malaysia*, yet unsure if he will be able to recover his cat and his properties and fly to Europe with the aforementioned paid ticket.

* Ubon Joe again properly informed!!!!

For the record: Yes I was over the 180 days non existing rule. No I never worked one minute while in Thailand - it would defy the purpose of enjoying the place. No I did not have a single hour of breaking the rules. No I am not a smelly hippie. No, I was not drunk as returning from KL airport.

These "rogue officers", who by the way, did not even give a hint that they were after tea money,  made a long lasting disservice to their own cherished country. Let us see if after the second wave starts in China they are still so finicky. In any case, their actions must have had some approval from superiors who want to get rid of the scum. Some people are scum and frankly do not belong in Thailand or even in their own country, IO definitely need better training to identify them.

I will be back when they have it......

[Guderian]

On 6/17/2020 at 12:56 PM, Keyser Soze666 said:

Surely the vast majority of genuine tourists would have left once it was evident that Covid was a serious issue, they would have had enough time to do so??

Absolutely, and even since they banned incoming passenger flights two months ago, there has still been a limited number of flights every week that could take you out of the country. Nobody is "trapped" here, as some would like to have us believe, they've just made a conscious decision that it's better to spend their time here rather than go back to their home countries. In some ways you can't blame them, it's certainly much safer here than in most western countries, but that doesn't mean the Thai authorities are somehow obliged to bend over backwards to sort out a situation that is largely of their own making.

[natway09]

The 180 day rule was just a money making issue (& not the Governments)

I wonder if Prayut knows about this?

[Traubert]

19 minutes ago, natway09 said:

The 180 day rule was just a money making issue (& not the Governments)

I wonder if Prayut knows about this?

It didn't make much....

[Eindhoven]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:56 AM, Keyser Soze666 said:

Surely the vast majority of genuine tourists would have left once it was evident that Covid was a serious issue, they would have had enough time to do so??

 

Why would they do that, if it looked like an even more serious issue in their country?

Looks like you are just stirring...

[Keyser Soze666]

4 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Why would they do that, if it looked like an even more serious issue in their country?

Looks like you are just stirring...

Stirring??? Hahaha. How old are you? 'stirring' what exactly?? Why would I give it a hoot what a load of soap dodgers do? Makes no difference to me whatsoever.

 

You really don't think that if a worldwide pandemic breaks out the majority of people, especially young ones, wouldn't want to be in their own countries in their own homes with their families, as opposed to being in a foreign land with no idea how things would pan out and who could have predicted at that time what countries would be effected the most anyway?? Then there is the money issue?

 

Explain yourself more thoroughly if you are gonna chuck nonsense like that about?

[pvdb]

Actually this 180 day rule is not as stupid as it sounds. in many countries this is indirectly in practice .. the reason being that one need to pay taxes in the country where you live the vast  majority of the year ... if you stay over 180 days in a country you due to pay taxes in that country. so going over 180 days means you de facto change main residence hence cant be seen as tourist anymore

 

[Peter Denis]

For sake of clarity in my original opening post I was not referring to tourists (the large majority probably will have left Thailand some time ago), but to those that are under 50 years of age and not married to a thai national, and are not eligible for an Ed-Visa or lack the funds for an EliteVisa.

Under those conditions you can only stay in Thailand on Tourist Visa and VisaExempt entries.

So I was wondering how they will cope once the Amnesty is over.

[SunsetT]

3 hours ago, madmaxx77 said:

Unfortunately, when the "rogue officers" apply their non-existent rules to YOU, the word "just" loses its meaning.

Especially if one has made a one day side trip to KL to avoid "the convenient solution" of only 9 days overstay - would have been the first one after 24 years of visits to Thailand (yes that includes the times when the fine was only 100 THB, still a lot for a working local) - with only his toothbrush but all the paperwork in order (confirmed booking to Berlin, Confirmed booking in Amari Hotel, more than 20000 THB in cash) and get deported like a criminal, at his own expenses, has to almost sneak in at a barely known border post with Malaysia*, yet unsure if he will be able to recover his cat and his properties and fly to Europe with the aforementioned paid ticket.

* Ubon Joe again properly informed!!!!

For the record: Yes I was over the 180 days non existing rule. No I never worked one minute while in Thailand - it would defy the purpose of enjoying the place. No I did not have a single hour of breaking the rules. No I am not a smelly hippie. No, I was not drunk as returning from KL airport.

These "rogue officers", who by the way, did not even give a hint that they were after tea money,  made a long lasting disservice to their own cherished country. Let us see if after the second wave starts in China they are still so finicky. In any case, their actions must have had some approval from superiors who want to get rid of the scum. Some people are scum and frankly do not belong in Thailand or even in their own country, IO definitely need better training to identify them.

I will be back when they have it......

Don Muang or Suvarnabhumi?

[RichardColeman]

Personally i'd like to see a 3 month automatic extension to any retirement extension that has expired whilst the country was in lockdown, to come into effect after Thailand agrees travel from that country is now safe.

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

Stirring??? Hahaha. How old are you? 'stirring' what exactly?? Why would I give it a hoot what a load of soap dodgers do? Makes no difference to me whatsoever.

 

You really don't think that if a worldwide pandemic breaks out the majority of people, especially young ones, wouldn't want to be in their own countries in their own homes with their families, as opposed to being in a foreign land with no idea how things would pan out and who could have predicted at that time what countries would be effected the most anyway?? Then there is the money issue?

 

Explain yourself more thoroughly if you are gonna chuck nonsense like that about?

I nearly got stuck in vietnam. Got word to get out immediately so flew out the day before airports closed.

 

Not to my home country though. To malaysia.

 

I have read quite a few tourists decided to wait it out instead of returning to their home country. If they have the money then why not.

[KhaoYai]

The officers may be 'rogue' and the rule may be unofficial but when you're stood at the booth waiting to be stamped in the IO's are god and the rule is gospel.

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, pvdb said:

Actually this 180 day rule is not as stupid as it sounds. in many countries this is indirectly in practice .. the reason being that one need to pay taxes in the country where you live the vast  majority of the year ... if you stay over 180 days in a country you due to pay taxes in that country. so going over 180 days means you de facto change main residence hence cant be seen as tourist anymore

 

Pay tax for what. If not working there is no tax.

[Sujo]

Just now, KhaoYai said:

The officers may be 'rogue' and the rule may be unofficial but when you're stood at the booth waiting to be stamped in the IO's are god and the rule is gospel.

thats the truth of it. Imm can refuse for anything or nothing. Its up to them.

[JackThompson]

 

2 hours ago, Traubert said:

2 hours ago, natway09 said:

The 180 day rule was just a money making issue (& not the Governments)

I wonder if Prayut knows about this?

It didn't make much....

Many "agent-assisted" and "elite" visas were sold, as a direct result - enriching their bosses.  Of course that was only maybe 2% of those driven away, who now spend their money in other countries - why many businesses were boarded-up and associated Thai jobs lost in the aftermath.

For those that stayed, condo-rents went to all-time lows (pre-covid), so good for us - only bad for the Thais whose jobs Immigration destroyed, to line their pockets.

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Pay tax for what. If not working there is no tax.

And if you are - for an overseas company or something - Thailand can get your spending and VAT tax, or nothing - allowing another country to get that.  Alternatively, they could offer a reasonable visa-solution that legalizes remote-work, and rake in even more. 

[Huckenfell]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Personally i'd like to see a 3 month automatic extension to any retirement extension that has expired whilst the country was in lockdown, to come into effect after Thailand agrees travel from that country is now safe.

I flew out to Brisbane in April, but could not get back. My O-A expires in October, cannot get back, so will lose about 6 months of my visa.

 

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Personally i'd like to see a 3 month automatic extension to any retirement extension that has expired whilst the country was in lockdown, to come into effect after Thailand agrees travel from that country is now safe.

Won't happen and not remotely possible.

There will be zero "automatic extensions" 

You will need to obtain new tourist visa or return Thailand visa exempt. Personally im not sure VE will be an option. 

 

[DrJack54]

36 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

I flew out to Brisbane in April, but could not get back. My O-A expires in October, cannot get back, so will lose about 6 months of my visa.

 

Not being negative. Just a question.

You were in Oz April. I might stuff up some dates here.... Australia PM alerted citizens to return AU ASAP. Think that was march 14. (hit my alert button)

March 19 NZ closed all non nationals to enter NZ. AU did same next day. 

Vietnam day before NZ #18. 

Thailand March 26. (big difference)

Personally I was at Saigon airport March 16 flying back to Bangkok where I live. I was meeting some guys flying back to Singapore. All flights cancelled to Singapore for pm flights. I thought <deleted> , but still thought my next 2 return back to Saigon April  and may will be ok. Clearly not.

Repeat this not a stir. Can I ask what your thoughts when airports closed ~ 20 March.

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 1:12 PM, Peter Denis said:

When entering Thailand via the Suvarnabhumi or DonMuang Airport, people applying for VisaExempt or wanting to enter on a Tourist Visa, were sometimes refused entry to the country (and having to fly back to where they embarked) because of 'staying too long in Thailand without a proper Visa'.  As UJ already mentioned, there is no such 180 days rule, but some rogue border-immigration officers looked at your previous stays in Thailand and if you had stayed longer than 180 days during the past year, you were considered not a 'genuine tourist' and were denied entry.

 

Good choice, you would be a tax resident to start with.

Edited June 18, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[Caldera]

53 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Good choice, you would be a tax resident to start with.

So what? I have been a tax resident of Thailand since 2007 and my cumulative tax liability has been zero.

 

And yes, exclusively on visa exempt and tourist visas. Visa status has nothing to do with tax residency.

 

[Mulambana]

I don't see any tourist or VE entries before October, if and only if, Europe and USA can keep the virus under control (like less than 100 infections per day). I also don't see Europe and USA can keep the virus under control by October. It may be next year sometimes or when a vaccine is widely avaiable. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Mulambana

[DrJack54]

21 minutes ago, Caldera said:

So what? I have been a tax resident of Thailand since 2007 and my cumulative tax liability has been zero.

 

And yes, exclusively on visa exempt and tourist visas. Visa status has nothing to do with tax residency.

 

Not having a go.

Many tvf would say ....you don't have correct visa etc. 

So many guys "doing your thing" . What is future plane? For example if visa exempt suspended. So then what? Fly home country? Many need think about options

[Don Mega]

15 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

For sake of clarity in my original opening post I was not referring to tourists (the large majority probably will have left Thailand some time ago), but to those that are under 50 years of age and not married to a thai national, and are not eligible for an Ed-Visa or lack the funds for an EliteVisa.

Under those conditions you can only stay in Thailand on Tourist Visa and VisaExempt entries.

So I was wondering how they will cope once the Amnesty is over.

One might question how such a person is funding their extended stay.

[Caldera]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

So many guys "doing your thing" . What is future plane? For example if visa exempt suspended. So then what? Fly home country? Many need think about options

I agree. It's a very real possibility that the visa amnesty will run out before nearby countries (that I also like to visit) open up. In that case I'd, indeed, fly home and either stay there longer than usual or travel around in Europe (which, as of now, would be possible having an EU passport).

 

Mid to long-term, I expect tourism to bounce back even in Southeast Asia. I had already planned to spend more time in other countries and less time in Thailand due to this unofficial rule and other factors, so this is definitely something I take into account.