UK ready to quit EU on 'Australia terms' if no Brexit deal, Johnson says

[7by7]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I certainly consider you amusing.

 

What own source are you on about now? Or have you made another accusatory booboo?

 

The source you posted here:

On 7/24/2020 at 11:35 AM, nauseus said:

If nobody is interested in an EU army why has there been so much furore about it? Juncker pressed for the creation of a "fully-fledged" defence force by 2025 in his comments in the 'FUTURE OF EUROPE: European Parliament sets out its vision' statement in 2017.

 

You didn't provide a link to the actual document. Could it be because reading it shows that he was calling for a defence union; not a force nor an army?

Quote

STATE OF THE UNION - JUNCKER Calls for creation of a fully-fledged Defence Union by 2025.

An EU defence union, similar to NATO, is not an EU force nor an EU army. 

 

Were such an army ever to happen, individual member states could decide for themselves whether or not to participate; see Fact Check: Can the UK be ‘forced into an EU Army’? from the UK Defence Journal, 13/6/19

Quote

The claim that Britain will be forced to join an EU army unless it leaves the EU is not correct.

 

[nauseus]

54 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The source you posted here:

 

You didn't provide a link to the actual document. Could it be because reading it shows that he was calling for a defence union; not a force nor an army?

An EU defence union, similar to NATO, is not an EU force nor an EU army. 

 

Were such an army ever to happen, individual member states could decide for themselves whether or not to participate; see Fact Check: Can the UK be ‘forced into an EU Army’? from the UK Defence Journal, 13/6/19

 

Ok here's the link, it's quite easy to find:

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/resources/library/media/20171023RES86651/20171023RES86651.pdf

 

On page 5, as anyone can see Juncker calls for a : fully-fledged Defence Union by 2025.

 

And Marcron calls for a: European initiative and a fully deployable European armed force ‘by the beginning of the next decade’.

 

And the PARLIAMENT’S VIEWS: 'calls on the members of a future convention to: Establish the European Armed Forces, capable of deploying combat forces for high intensity conflicts, stabilisation forces which secure cease-fires or peace agreements and evacuation tasks medical services including mobile field hospitals as well as forces for military logistics and military engineering; Stresses the importance of creating a permanent EU headquarters for civilian and military CSDP missions and operations; Supports enhancing the role of the EDA. European Parliament resolution of 16 March 2017 on constitutional, legal and institutional implications of a common security and defence policy: possibilities offered by the Lisbon Treaty (2015/2343(INI)'.

 

The proposal is clearly for an army, with and other armed forces (presumably air force/navy) and their associated command structures. I don't see this to be in any way similar to NATO - this is just for the EU. If formed, it will hamper the NATO that has protected Europe for so long. It's a bad idea and one of the best reasons to leave. 

[7by7]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:19 PM, nauseus said:

<snip>

Ok here's the link, it's quite easy to find:

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/resources/library/media/20171023RES86651/20171023RES86651.pdf

 Yes, I know the link is easy to find, having found it and linked to it twice before you did! 

 

As for you list of selective, out of context quotes; I repeat: anyone who reads the whole Defence part of the document will see that the proposals are for an alliance and union. At no point in that document is there a call for an army controlled by and subservient to the Commission!

 

Plus, as the link to the UK Defence Journal says, EU member states will have right to decide whether or not to opt in or out of such a union.

 

Very much like NATO, in fact.

 

Of course, everything in the document is a proposal from the European Parliament, and so may never happen anyway. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 Yes, I know the link is easy to find, having found it and linked to it twice before you did! 

 

As for you list of selective, out of context quotes; I repeat: anyone who reads the whole Defence part of the document will see that the proposals are for an alliance and union. At no point in that document is there a call for an army controlled by and subservient to the Commission!

 

Plus, as the link to the UK Defence Journal says, EU member states will have right to decide whether or not to opt in or out of such a union.

 

Very much like NATO, in fact.

 

Of course, everything in the document is a proposal from the European Parliament, and so may never happen anyway. 

I expected some sort of denial from you - typical 49 - but you took your time with that one! It is there for all to see and they can decide for themselves but I really hope everyone reads this. I have posted it before and of course, quotes are selective: exact selections directly from the document as published, with no furtling or fiddling of letters and words. The UK defence journal has nothing to do with what the EU has said and whether it happens or not does not matter. The creation of these armed forces is plainly a goal of the EU. If that is not now obvious to you, then I will leave you alone in your fantasy world.   

 

[Heppinger]

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I expected some sort of denial from you - typical 49 - but you took your time with that one! It is there for all to see and they can decide for themselves but I really hope everyone reads this. I have posted it before and of course, quotes are selective: exact selections directly from the document as published, with no furtling or fiddling of letters and words. The UK defence journal has nothing to do with what the EU has said and whether it happens or not does not matter. The creation of these armed forces is plainly a goal of the EU. If that is not now obvious to you, then I will leave you alone in your fantasy world.   

 

You have Politicians being sworn into Parliament on the Koran, it's over for you, brexit or not doesn't matter now you were all duped and your finished.

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

You have Politicians being sworn into Parliament on the Koran, it's over for you, brexit or not doesn't matter now you were all duped and your finished.

Well if you would care to elaborate, I'm sure we would all like to know your reasoning for that statement. 

[Heppinger]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well if you would care to elaborate, I'm sure we would all like to know your reasoning for that statement. 

The very fact you would need me to elaborate confirms my statement, your finished. 

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, Heppinger said:

You have Politicians being sworn into Parliament on the Koran, it's over for you, brexit or not doesn't matter now you were all duped and your finished.

and remaining members of the eu would have stopped our impending doom? how?

[Heppinger]

6 hours ago, kingdong said:

and remaining members of the eu would have stopped our impending doom? how?

No, they would not have stopped your impending doom, because your impending doom commenced with the result of WW2. 

I stated "Brexit or no Brexit" doesn't matter now as your fate was sealed long before you all started bickering over membership to some inbred EU club.

[kingdong]

30 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

No, they would not have stopped your impending doom, because your impending doom commenced with the result of WW2. 

I stated "Brexit or no Brexit" doesn't matter now as your fate was sealed long before you all started bickering over membership to some inbred EU club.

ww 2 ? i always thought the battle of hastings sealed our fates.

[Heppinger]

10 minutes ago, kingdong said:

ww 2 ? i always thought the battle of hastings sealed our fates.

I guess you could argue you that point, though i would call hastings more of a family feud as you all had Germanic ancestry.   This time round the transition is not going to be so smooth. 

[transam]

8 hours ago, Heppinger said:

You have Politicians being sworn into Parliament on the Koran, it's over for you, brexit or not doesn't matter now you were all duped and your finished.

You're a Muslim then..?..????

[transam]

59 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

No, they would not have stopped your impending doom, because your impending doom commenced with the result of WW2. 

I stated "Brexit or no Brexit" doesn't matter now as your fate was sealed long before you all started bickering over membership to some inbred EU club.

Why is that....?

Are you an unhappy old German or axis member...?

 

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, transam said:

You're a Muslim then..?..????

No i would not call myself a muslim, though i have read the koran,  nor did i call myself a christian zionist after reading the bible and the talmud.

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Why is that....?

Are you an unhappy old German or axis member...?

 

That's a good one, and very funny, did you get to make it home before the travel restrictions?

[transam]

Just now, Heppinger said:

No i would not call myself a muslim, though i have read the koran,  nor did i call myself a christian zionist after reading the bible and the talmud.

Oh, you're one of those religious n__s, please carry on, I need a good laugh whilst painting my ceiling....????

[transam]

1 minute ago, Heppinger said:

That's a good one, and very funny, did you get to make it home before the travel restrictions?

That's off topic chap, but, I don't need to go home, I am home.....????

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Oh, you're one of those religious n__s, please carry on, I need a good laugh whilst painting my ceiling....????

Yes please, paint away, as you ponder the complexities of the left-right paradigm and your position within it.   I heard painting was beneficial in dulling cognitive dissonance.

[Heppinger]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

That's off topic chap, but, I don't need to go home, I am home.....????

Then its home you shall remain.

[transam]

1 hour ago, Heppinger said:

Then its home you shall remain.

I hope so....????

[Rookiescot]

11 hours ago, Heppinger said:

You have Politicians being sworn into Parliament on the Koran, it's over for you, brexit or not doesn't matter now you were all duped and your finished.

Wow we got a live one here ????

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Wow we got a live one here ????

Must have been tasered.

[nauseus]

13 hours ago, Heppinger said:

The very fact you would need me to elaborate confirms my statement, your finished. 

The fact that you only mention the Koran, when the texts of several religions are now allowed for the swearing in of UK MPs, tells me what your point might be. But it would be much simpler if you could openly tells us all why we are finished? 

[Loiner]

14 hours ago, Heppinger said:

You have Politicians being sworn into Parliament on the Koran, it's over for you, brexit or not doesn't matter now you were all duped and your finished.

Aren't we a happy ray of sunshine? Doomed since the result of WWII, but nothing to do with Brexit and apparently not the membership of some inbred EU club either. All a bit unclear like a German Nostradamus.

The politicians and Koran clue could have some mileage though. Is it something you can feel in your waters?

[Nigel Garvie]

6 hours ago, Heppinger said:

I guess you could argue you that point, though i would call hastings more of a family feud as you all had Germanic ancestry.   This time round the transition is not going to be so smooth. 

Not really, try telling a Norwegian or Dane that they are German. The Normans were Vikings who settled in north east France, and intermingled with the Francs. The Anglo Saxons (Old English pre 1066) were indeed German tribes mainly. Genetically they remain the dominant strain in English DNA, The Normans were rulers, but limited in number by comparison. 

 

Off topic a bit, but just to tidy that one up.

[7by7]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

<snip>

I expected some sort of denial from you - typical 49 - but you took your time with that one!

Yes, but not, as you imply, because my life is so sad and empty that I sit at my computer staring at the screen awaiting posts from you and when it came I was so stunned by the power of your response it was over 24 hours before I could reply!

 

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

<snip>

It is there for all to see and they can decide for themselves but I really hope everyone reads this.

I hope everyone reads the whole document, not just your edited version; because it is, as you say, there for all to see.

 

It is a proposal, a proposal for an alliance; an alliance which hasn't happened yet; a proposal which any member can veto from ever happening anyway; a proposal which if it were to happen each member state could opt out of.

 

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

<snip>

The UK defence journal has nothing to do with what the EU has said

Of course you would say that as the article and it's sources  prove that if an EU Army ever did come into being each and every member state could opt out of joining.

 

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

<snip>

The creation of these armed forces is plainly a goal of the EU. If that is not now obvious to you, then I will leave you alone in your fantasy world.   

The creation of an EU alliance as expressed in the document is a goal of the elected representatives in the European Parliament. Well, it was in 2017 but there's been an election since then.

 

For that to happen will require the unanimous agreement of the Council of Ministers.

 

If that were to happen, each member would be able to opt out.

Nothing I have seen in any EU document states that an EU army subservient to and under the control of the Commission which each and every member state would be forced to join has ever been seriously considered by anyone with any influence. It may be the wet dream of a few  federalists and the nightmare of people such as you; but that's all.

 

[7by7]

16 hours ago, Heppinger said:

You have Politicians being sworn into Parliament on the Koran, it's over for you, brexit or not doesn't matter now you were all duped and your finished.

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

The fact that you only mention the Koran, when the texts of several religions are now allowed for the swearing in of UK MPs, tells me what your point might be. But it would be much simpler if you could openly tells us all why we are finished? 

 

Indeed, MPs and Lords who choose to swear can do so on the religious text of their choice; whether that be the Bible, Koran, Talmud, Vedas, or any other book 'written' by a resident of Dunmanifestin.

 

Those who choose to affirm do not do so on any book or document.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Yes, but not, as you imply, because my life is so sad and empty that I sit at my computer staring at the screen awaiting posts from you and when it came I was so stunned by the power of your response it was over 24 hours before I could reply!

 

I hope everyone reads the whole document, not just your edited version; because it is, as you say, there for all to see.

 

It is a proposal, a proposal for an alliance; an alliance which hasn't happened yet; a proposal which any member can veto from ever happening anyway; a proposal which if it were to happen each member state could opt out of.

 

Of course you would say that as the article and it's sources  prove that if an EU Army ever did come into being each and every member state could opt out of joining.

 

The creation of an EU alliance as expressed in the document is a goal of the elected representatives in the European Parliament. Well, it was in 2017 but there's been an election since then.

 

For that to happen will require the unanimous agreement of the Council of Ministers.

 

If that were to happen, each member would be able to opt out.

Nothing I have seen in any EU document states that an EU army subservient to and under the control of the Commission which each and every member state would be forced to join has ever been seriously considered by anyone with any influence. It may be the wet dream of a few  federalists and the nightmare of people such as you; but that's all.

 

Sadness, emptiness and screen-staring? Perish the thought. 

 

I have supplied the link to the whole document, my "edited version" contains direct quotes. What are you on about?

 

It is a proposal for an army. The intent is plain and obvious.  

 

I didn't say anything about any EU army being subservient to and under the control of the Commission. You did.

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, Heppinger said:

No, they would not have stopped your impending doom, because your impending doom commenced with the result of WW2. 

I stated "Brexit or no Brexit" doesn't matter now as your fate was sealed long before you all started bickering over membership to some inbred EU club.

troll alert

[kingdong]

8 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Wow we got a live one here ????

and a possible great leader of mankind,i mean hes managed to turn rabid remainers and barmy brexiteers into allies,we have a future Abraham lincoln in our midst.hes a messiah.

Edited July 28, 2020 by kingdong