Trump says Confederate flag proud symbol of U.S. South

[Orton Rd]

9 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

this is the link, 

 

https://www.al.com/opinion/2015/06/war-over-slavery_rhetoric_is_i.html

 

title for fare use:

 

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

That is why he did not use the proclamation card until 21 months into the war, he even considered extending slavery until 1900 to get the CSA to re join the Union. His fans will say ah that's because he needed to get public opinion on his side first, that's nonsense. He ignored public opinion, the congress and the constitution and did what ever he thought would benefit his cause, some do not call him a tyrant for nothing. Also, in his letters which had nothing to do with appeasing the south he famously said if he could save the Union without freeing any slaves, or just some and not others he would have. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Orton Rd

[Tug]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

That is why he did not use the proclamation card until 21 months into the war, he even considered extending slavery until 1900 to get the CSA to re join the Union. His fans will say ah that's because he needed to get public opinion on his side first, that's nonsense. He ignored public opinion, the congress and the constitution and did what ever he thought would benefit his cause, some do not call him a tyrant for nothing. Also, in his letters which had nothing to do with appeasing the south he famously said if he could save the Union without freeing any slaves, or just some and not others he would have. 

Absolutely President Lincoln would have been ready to consider ANY compromise to avoid the death of the United States and avoid the slaughter that was the civil war forced by the csa attempting to leave the Union yup btw slavery is and was wrong 

[metisdead]

An off topic trolling post about the Mexican flag has been removed.  THIS topic has nothing to do with discussion of the Mexican flag. 

[Orton Rd]

How about a compromise, just the Union flag, but replace that awful star spangled banner, not the anthem for long anyway, with a proper CSA tune which was written by a northerner anyway

 

[3NUMBAS]

ban the scull and crossbones next ?its getting ridiculous as the flag is a commedy flag

[siam dreamers]

It is hard to believe that any one can actually believe that Donald Trump could care less about the confederate flag or the south for that matter. Pushing law and order and racism is an old chapter out of the Republican play book termed the "Southern Strategy" that has been affective over the years whipping up racial tension in the south to covert white conservative voters to vote republican and hang onto power in the south.

 

Even me, a Connecticut yankee, could care less about the confederate flag. Please keep it if you want but can we agree that the police need to stop killing our fellow black Americans at much higher rates than everyone else with very little chance of punishment or  It is the year 2020 and the slavery was abolished in America over 150 years ago. Time to call off the dogs.

 

Just a stray thought but maybe our great president might focus a bit more on the virus and the 147,000 deaths than on himself.

[Kitmakmak]

A lot of uninformed statements in this thread- which proves propaganda works. Here are a few facts for your consumption:

 

Lincoln did not fight the war to end slavery- and he said so.

 

Ulysses S Grant did not fight the war to end slavery- and he said so.

 

There has never been a civil war in the US. The war that people refer to as The Civil War or The American Civil War was actually a war between two sovereign nations. There was no coup. No civil war. The Confederate States of America had no intentions of overthrowing or even attacking the USA. Several former US forts in Southern states were peacefully abandoned by Union commanders when requested. If the Union commander at Ft Sumter had peacefully withdrawn his troops, there never would have been a war. Secession and war were two separate events. Secession was a political decision. The war was started because of Lincoln's decision to force the Southern states back into the USA after they had already left and formed their own country. Lincoln tagged Confederates as "rebels" because he wanted the public to believe they were in rebellion against the USA. Propaganda was necessary to justify Lincoln's War.

 

The states that seceded from the USA did not do so over slavery. In 1860, there were 15 so called slave states. Slavery was protected by the US Constitution. 3/4ths of the states' approval are required to amend the Constitution. This means that 45 states would have to vote in favor of an amendment- 15 slave states + 45 abolition states adds up to 60 states. 160 years later, there are only 50 states. In 1860, there were only 33 states. So, do the math. There was no reason for the Southern states to secede from the USA to preserve slavery. It is pure propaganda that the war was fought to end slavery.

 

Lincoln never freed a single slave and in fact, he forced runaway slaves to be returned to their owners. The Emancipation Proclamation did not free any slaves anywhere. First of all, it was a proclamation that had no legal force within the USA because only an amendment to the Constitution could end slavery. Slavery continued to exist in some Northern states and even Washington DC throughout the war. Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was just a political ploy that he hoped would cause mass insurrection in the South. It had no legal force because the proclamation, as written, only applied to the 11 states that seceded. The proclamation had no more legal authority than if he issued a similar proclamation for Brazil or any other foreign country.

 

The official Confederate flag is not the one people call the Confederate flag. The Confederate battle flag that everyone associates with the Confederacy did not represent slavery to Confederates- the overwhelming majority who were not slave owners. The battle flag has, indeed, become a symbol of racism to some people because of propaganda perpetuated by liberals and the media and some self serving Democrats and race-baiters. The flag has been used as a symbol of racism by the post Reconstruction era KKK. They are a despicable group who usurped the flag for their own purposes. This is similar to Hitler using the swastika for a Nazi symbol. Buddhists had been using the same or similar symbol for over 2000 years. Should all Buddha statues with this symbol be torn down because someone else in another time used it as a symbol of oppression? It's also worth noting that at every KKK rally they also display the USA flag. But, it is only the CSA battle flag that gets the hate symbol treatment.

 

Having said all that, the idea that one human being can own another is an abhorrent concept. Slavery has existed in many countries over many centuries. Many central figures in the Bible were slave owners. When The Ten Commandments refer to servants, they are referring to slaves. Yet, there is only one group of people who are constantly demonized and called racists because of what their ancestors may or may not have done 160 years ago. Why is that? Could it be that propaganda and demagogic politics are in play?

 

 

 

 

[pkspeaker]

On 7/27/2020 at 8:49 PM, siam dreamers said:

Please keep it if you want but can we agree that the police need to stop killing our fellow black Americans at much higher rates than everyone else with very little chance of punishment

Blacks are not killed at much higher rates by police than everyone else. They are killed at the same rate as whites and hispanics.

[Ventenio]

the man is one of the most powerful politicians in the galaxy, so you have to phrase it differently.

 

let me think about it for one second....

 

"The confederate flag once flown proud in the southern states, but this year the flag represents a past we are all trying to learn from.  We have one flag, the u...s...of....a.   Let's focus on all rallying behind one flag, as we can be stronger together."
 

easy stuff, IF you simply take a breadth, think, and think again.  

[heybruce]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:44 AM, Damual Travesty said:

You don't have any statistical evidence for this. But it was the Democrat party that was the party of Jim Crow laws, the Democrat party that fought integration, the Democrat party that built the housing projects, the Democrat party that was the party of the Ku Klux Klan, and it was the Democrat party that built up US Forces in Vietnam. It was the Republican party that brought integration of the US Military, the Republican party that was the party of Lincoln, the Republican party that had a President in power who ended the Vietnam war, and I don't think I need to say anything more need to be said on these matters.

 

Bottom line? Stop accusing Republicans, Donald Trump, and all conservatives of being racists. The argument holds no water. Ask any black or Latino conservative.

50 to 100 years ago it was a very different Democratic Party.  5 to 10 years ago it was a very different Republican Party.

 

Why not judge political parties by what they now stand for?

[Jingthing]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:52 PM, tifino said:

are they stomping out the state population wide held plates too? 

 

Yes. Long overdue. 

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.  

 

[Scott]

Troll post removed.