UK PM Johnson says 'open questions' on whether lockdown came too late

[Nigel Garvie]

34 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

My comment is less about the death rates themselves than about the refusal of the English to look just a few miles north or west and ask why the situations there are so very different. 

 

In the whole of July, the deaths in the UK from COVID are:

 

Scotland - 9

Wales - 38

N Ireland - 5

England - 1,772

 

What has happened that this doesn't even make headline news any longer? Why is nobody seemingly trying to work out why this should be the case?

The MSM down south, Beeb in particular, have always talked about the UK figures in order to avoid the embarrassment of showing up England's dismal performance. 

There is bound to be some truth in the population density argument, but for Scotland the proportion of people living outside of the packed central belt is pretty small. Sturgeon was right IMO to take the reopen move very cautiously.

 

Having returned home for work from CM, where I was for 4+months, I was utterly astonished to find out that only very recently have they insisted on masks in shops here. The restrictions in Thailand started months ago, and you still get your temperature taken as you enter even small supermarkets there, and the province has been Covid free for over 2 months. I never heard any idiocy in Thailand about masks restricting personal freedom. 

 

If they can do it why on earth can't we? Any ideas of superiority that a number of TV folk appear to harbour,  is cast into doubt.

[sungod]

11 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Scotland has handled the virus far better than England.

Its has been 8 days since we had a single death from corona.

Did Scotland lock down any quicker withe the powers they had?

[sungod]

10 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The devolved administrations were hamstrung by the fact that the chancellor has the purse strings. Until he announced his furlough scheme, there was no possibility for the devolved governments to impose a lockdown. 

Scotland has the power it needs to enforce whatever it needs, total BS.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, sungod said:

Scotland has the power it needs to enforce whatever it needs, total BS.

From where would Scotland get the budget to make furlough payments? Unlike Westminster, Scotland is unable to borrow money. So those furlough payments would need to have been funded from elsewhere. What do you think the SG should have done in that case? 

[7by7]

20 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"This was something that was new, that we didn't understand in the way that we would have liked in the first few weeks and months, and ... the single thing that we didn't see at the beginning was the extent to which it was being transmitted asymptomatically from person to person," he told the BBC.

 As Prime Minister he should have had access to the report of Exercise Cygnus, which looked at England's preparedness for just this scenario and found it wanting.

 

Though it is true that the exercise was carried out in 2016, so the lack of implementation of it's recommendations cannot be laid entirely at Johnson's door.

 

However, the response of Johnson's government has been woeful. Such as late implementing lockdown; late implementing quarantine on arrivals from abroad; late on making wearing facemasks compulsory in shops, restaurants etc.; ignoring offers from British clothing manufacturers to make and supply PPE; lack of testing for NHS and care home staff.

 

Everything this government has done has been too little, too late.

Edited July 25, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[7by7]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

What I cannot understand is why there is no outrage in England? Why are you not marching on Downing Street in anger at what he has done, and what he continues to do to you?

 

9 hours ago, Kadilo said:

I think the time for retribution will follow.

Indeed.

 

If they haven't tired of him and his Svengali by January, Tory MPs will certainly get rid of Johnson early next year. If they don't, they know they haven't a chance come the next GE.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

<snip>

In the UK we now understand that being run over by a bus is counted as a covid 19 death if the deceased had earlier been infected

You may; those of us who don't subscribe to conspiracy theories recognise your assumption for the nonsense it is.

 

For a long period, deaths were kept artificially low by only counting those in NHS hospitals and ignoring those in care homes and elsewhere.

[7by7]

8 hours ago, Kadilo said:

<snip>

The public seem to be oblivious to the number of deaths and just getting on with it so to speak. 

 

Blitz spirit, maybe?

[Kadilo]

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Blitz spirit, maybe?

Not sure. I think when we had the daily briefings it was out there and everyone knew.  Now it just seems that everyone has had enough and just want to get some kind of normality back however diluted that is. 
 

Sadly the focus on the ongoing death appears to have fallen down the priority list. 
 

 

[johnnybangkok]

11 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

The MSM down south, Beeb in particular, have always talked about the UK figures in order to avoid the embarrassment of showing up England's dismal performance. 

There is bound to be some truth in the population density argument, but for Scotland the proportion of people living outside of the packed central belt is pretty small. Sturgeon was right IMO to take the reopen move very cautiously.

 

Having returned home for work from CM, where I was for 4+months, I was utterly astonished to find out that only very recently have they insisted on masks in shops here. The restrictions in Thailand started months ago, and you still get your temperature taken as you enter even small supermarkets there, and the province has been Covid free for over 2 months. I never heard any idiocy in Thailand about masks restricting personal freedom. 

 

If they can do it why on earth can't we? Any ideas of superiority that a number of TV folk appear to harbour,  is cast into doubt.

I agree with this, especially the part regarding MSM.

The UK's MSM has been completely sycophantic when it comes to Boris and C19. The Telegraph, The Sun, Express, Times, The Mail and other, right leaning piblications have levelled little to no criricism about Boris's obvious incompetancy and obvious mishandling of this crisis.

Why was there not enough PPE to cover front-line workers? Why did it take until mid-March for Boris to 'recommend' working from home and even longer to close down schools/pubs/restaurants etc? Why has the testing and tracking taken so long to get off the ground and even now doesn't test nearly enough people? Why is mask wearing still a debate (for us living in Thailand, this has been a mainstream of daily life for quite some time now).

All these crucial deadlines and recommendations were not met (and some still haven't been) resulting in the UK having the second highest C19 death per population ratio in the world  and a MSM seemingly oblivous to it all.

I personally think they had already gone 'all-in' with Boris regarding Brexit, so they had no choice other than to keep bluffing with the same 'everythings going to be fine, nothing to see here, keep moving along' tactic they've been adopting for years.  Boris admitting there 'maybe' a debate about whether the lockdown came too late is just another cynical ploy to get ahead of the eventual criticism that's going to come his way. His usual 'bumbling, lovable clown' act is going to be a tough one to pull off when confronted with the families and friends of the 45,000 (and still counting) dead. His and his governments incompetance caused many of these deaths and should (I won't hold my breath) result in his dismisal. 

  

 

 

[sungod]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

From where would Scotland get the budget to make furlough payments? Unlike Westminster, Scotland is unable to borrow money. So those furlough payments would need to have been funded from elsewhere. What do you think the SG should have done in that case? 

UK Governments economic response has been extremely generous, too generous IMHO. The problem lies when Westminster makes these funds available , yet they are held back by the Scottish Government. 'Disgraceful, putting lives at risk' was how it was described by the largest trade union.

 

https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/may/unite-scotland-says-lives-at-risk-as-additional-155m-covid-19-funds-for-local-authorities-still-not-released/

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, sungod said:

UK Governments economic response has been extremely generous, too generous IMHO. The problem lies when Westminster makes these funds available , yet they are held back by the Scottish Government. 'Disgraceful, putting lives at risk' was how it was described by the largest trade union.

 

https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/may/unite-scotland-says-lives-at-risk-as-additional-155m-covid-19-funds-for-local-authorities-still-not-released/

How generous the UK gov response has been is a matter of debate. It appears to be well short of the EU package, for a start. Your view that it may be too generous is a fair one to make. The money will have to be paid back by taxpayers. However that includes Scottish ones, so the idea that Scotland is getting a generous gift from Westminster is inaccurate - to be polite. Hasn't stopped Johnson tempting to exploit it though.

 

Unite - lead by Corbyn puppeteer and ardent Europhobe Len the gross - you trying to make me laugh? They are not the largest Union in Scotland (Or the UK) which is Unison. Unison have recently supported a 2nd referendum. Unite have been Cobynite labour under McClusky. Len has no time for the SNP,  he has been too busy packing the NEC with his Stazi left placepersons, and pulling Cobyn's strings. Not an unbiased source IMHO.

 

The article is twisted in summary, but simply says that the SNP want council budgets for the expenditure. That doesn't mean that councils can't spend any of the money. They can borrow it on the basis it will arrive in due course, as every business with an order book does all the time.

[RuamRudy]

4 hours ago, sungod said:

UK Governments economic response has been extremely generous, too generous IMHO. The problem lies when Westminster makes these funds available , yet they are held back by the Scottish Government. 'Disgraceful, putting lives at risk' was how it was described by the largest trade union.

 

https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/may/unite-scotland-says-lives-at-risk-as-additional-155m-covid-19-funds-for-local-authorities-still-not-released/

Deflection. 

 

You stated that:

16 hours ago, sungod said:

Scotland has the power it needs to enforce whatever it needs, total BS.

and I explained to you, on two occasions, that this was not the case. Don't try to deflect with a puff piece from a union desperate to breathe life into a dying Scottish Labour party and reclaim what they still believe is their right, a Scottish block vote.

 

The fact remains that the SG, like its Welsh and NI counterparts, could not have implemented a furlough scheme themselves because our union of equals does not allow them to do so. They had no option but to follow Westminster's late lead to that end. 

[LoS itaint]

So Bojo thinks that its possible lock down came too late, 5555555555555.............The UK has never really been in a state of lock-down, theres been a total disregard, by a very high percentage of UK citizens, to any recommendations/advice/restrictions etc his government cronies have attempted to impose. The virus was probably introduced to the UK in early February but only this week its been considered wise to wear a face mask. The Keystone Cops have had the power to fine people who dont conform but i would like to know the stats on that.............There should be a public enquiry into the handling of COVID-19........................................ 45+k dead & counting!

[sungod]

20 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Deflection. 

 

You stated that:

and I explained to you, on two occasions, that this was not the case. Don't try to deflect with a puff piece from a union desperate to breathe life into a dying Scottish Labour party and reclaim what they still believe is their right, a Scottish block vote.

 

The fact remains that the SG, like its Welsh and NI counterparts, could not have implemented a furlough scheme themselves because our union of equals does not allow them to do so. They had no option but to follow Westminster's late lead to that end. 

Deflection? Thats rich from you ????All you do is blame central government for your own failings. There were/are a multitude of measures that could have been undertaken. Not everything depends on furlough........

[Logosone]

Funny how Boris can it get is so wrong all of the time. Latest study says lockdowns had no serious effect:

 

Lockdowns DON'T work, study claims: Researchers say stay-at-home orders made no difference to coronavirus deaths around the world - but prior health levels DID

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8553929/Lockdowns-DONT-work-study-claims.html

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, sungod said:

Deflection? Thats rich from you ????All you do is blame central government for your own failings. There were/are a multitude of measures that could have been undertaken. Not everything depends on furlough........

My failings? I had no part to play other than following SG advice, which I did. 

 

Other measures were taken, but you specifically asked on two occasions about the timing of lockdown. On both my responses to you I explained that you cannot have a lockdown unless you supplement the income of the people who can no longer go to work. Therefore there was no latitude to vary lockdown implementation. 

[MRToMRT]

Without a doubt it came too late. But that was the same for everywhere, including Thailand. I was walking Sukhumvit with a mask in February (like 80% of the japanese in the area) and there were no government warnings whatsoever and Chinese accents where everywhere. 

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

Without a doubt it came too late. But that was the same for everywhere, including Thailand. I was walking Sukhumvit with a mask in February (like 80% of the japanese in the area) and there were no government warnings whatsoever and Chinese accents where everywhere. 

Why was it too late in Thailand? Hardly any infections.