Do all Non-O ME border bouncers need to switch to yearly extensions?

[johnmell]

I am married to a thai, been here 5 years, first 4 years had the 400,000 baht 1 year extension , but now on a multi non o from HCMC, which expires Oct.I can easily transfer 40,000 baht for 2 months but cannot raise 400,000.Any chance i can get a 1 year extension?

[JackThompson]

13 hours ago, RedCardinal said:

On 7/25/2020 at 10:37 PM, BritTim said:

They will issue you a one-year extension of your permission to stay if you meet all the requirements for a one-year multiple entry Non O visa from the Penang consulate, plus some photos.

Nope. Inaccurate. I've gotten my one-year multiple entry Non O visa from the Penang consulate the last 2 years running. But I'm not entitled to an extension as my Thai child does not live at the same address with me. The same requirements are not always applied to Non-O and extension, as I unfortunately know all too well. 

Above and @hotchilli, Why we don't just "do it in country if we have the finances? The above and ...
 

Other KEY Differences include

• You can use proof of money or income in foreign-accounts.
• You will not be hit with "special extra requirements" designed to prevent honest in-person (no-agent) applications, as the MFA is not run as a racket like the RTP. 

Blockers to Honest non-agent-money applications based on supporting a Thai family avoided include (varies by office):

• Landlord docs (landlord's chanote, house-book, or them needing to travel to Thailand to support your application)
• What "kind of income" you have being disqualified ("not a pension" etc)
• Proving your work-permit is not fake (newly added CW docs)

In all 3 officies where I was denied an extension based on marriage - trying 4x at the first case (Jomtien), I could have easily received a Multi-Non-O at Penang with the proof of income I presented. 

 

As well, certifications of "true and correct" on documents regarding income from our (USA) consulate in Kuala Lumpur may be available and accepted in Penang, which Thailand has coerced (through accusations of fraud) our embassy in Bangkok/CM to cease providing.

 

The primary problem with extensions from immigration for Thai-family is the extortion-racket.  If Savannakhet and/or HCMC began requiring the same income requirements as Penang, and it was possible to travel there or Penang and return, I could easily meet them, and would do so immediately. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by JackThompson

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think he meant foreigners that are not Thai or from one of the neighboring countries.

You cannot just walk up to a border and cross it either way now. 

Both "closed" and "foreigner" have definitive meanings.

If the forum wishes to indulge in generalised interpretation then people should refrain from the pedantic corrections that appear with monotonous regularity.

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, johnmell said:

I am married to a thai, been here 5 years, first 4 years had the 400,000 baht 1 year extension , but now on a multi non o from HCMC, which expires Oct.I can easily transfer 40,000 baht for 2 months but cannot raise 400,000.Any chance i can get a 1 year extension?

You can make the transfers and try.  You may be asked to show the "source" of the income, though -much more likely if supporting a Thai family than if using retirement, since they generally hate doing these applications for "retail price."  If your consulate will still provide income-letters, that is another possible avenue, but you may still get hit with the "source" requirement. 

 

Good luck with the source requirement, unless you have proof of a "state pension" or similar - but this varies by office.  It cannot hurt to try.

[Tanoshi]

11 hours ago, johnmell said:

I am married to a thai, been here 5 years, first 4 years had the 400,000 baht 1 year extension , but now on a multi non o from HCMC, which expires Oct.I can easily transfer 40,000 baht for 2 months but cannot raise 400,000.Any chance i can get a 1 year extension?

You may have to apply for a 60 day extension to visit Thai wife beforehand, then apply for the 1 year extension before your Non O expires.

Transfer 40K asap to have the required 2 x 40K transfers in place for the 1 year extension application.

[JackThompson]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:06 PM, mokwit said:

Prefer not to in many cases if you consider most repatriation flights were going back near empty. I think there are people in trouble here from trying to buy a flight and maxing out their credit cards on cancelled flights. Unfortunately their plight is not recognised in any announcement and I wonder if any understanding will be shown.  I hope they can pay their hotel bills as not paying here is very serious.

Re: "prefer" - many of us don't live in our passport-countries, have not for decades, and do not need to "be" there to sustain our incomes.  Our other options for living in SE Asia, where many of us have lived before, and would again if we could not stay here, have been closed off to us.  We cannot even enter them, quarantine, and stay.

 

As a USA passport-holder, the next best option where I could enter now, and live long-term, would be Latin America.  Short term, it is Turkey or a couple options in Eastern-Europe (not ideal, but ...).  The USA is far down the list of preferred destinations, based on quality-of-life / overhead-costs. 

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Re: "prefer" - many of us don't live in our passport-countries, have not for decades, and do not need to "be" there to sustain our incomes.  Our other options for living in SE Asia, where many of us have lived before, and would again if we could not stay here, have been closed off to us.  We cannot even enter them, quarantine, and stay.

The assumption of the authorities is that all foreigners can just "go back your country" People on multi entry Non O/B are a small minority that the authorities likely regard as de facto tourists. The visa is intended for someone living outside Thailand to make multiple entries per year, it was not intended for the holders to turn it inside out and use it to stay in Thailand year 'round (I'm not criticising those that do because for a period I used them in the same way). The fact that they are no longer issued by many consuls tend to confirm this - only a handful of consuls (2 or 3?) issue them now.

 

I am on back to back 1 year extensions and left my country 25 years ago and have nothing there - but I fall in the same boat if for example there was a change in extension requirements I could not meet that meant I could no longer qualify for an extension. I could just " go back your country" as far as the authorities are concerned. Any problem any change in visa/extension requirements causes visa holders is not their problem as far as they are concerned, it is not something they need to take into consideration (unless it gets mass bad press overseas). In fairness to the Thai authorities our visas are clearly delineated as "Non Immigrant", and they mean it.

Edited July 27, 2020 by mokwit

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

The assumption of the authorities is that all foreigners can just "go back your country" People on multi entry Non O/B are a small minority that the authorities likely regard as de facto tourists. The visa is intended for someone living outside Thailand to make multiple entries per year, it was not intended for the holders to turn it inside out and use it to stay in Thailand year 'round (I'm not criticising those that do because for a period I used them in the same way). The fact that they are no longer issued by many consuls tend to confirm this - only a handful of consuls (2 or 3?) issue them now.

I see no evidence of this, because the rules for the visa state nothing of the kind.  Other ME types of visas, including the relatively-new TR-ME, also lack any wording about, "Not to be used to stay in Thailand most of the time."  If they mean that, they can write that into the conditions. 

 

What we are dealing with, is Immigration resenting the MFA providing a way for people to dodge their agent-scams.  Immigration doesn't like the Visa's terms, but that doesn't change those terms.

 

Quote

I am on back to back 1 year extensions and left my country 25 years ago and have nothing there - but I fall in the same boat if for example there was a change in extension requirements I could not meet that meant I could no longer qualify for an extension. I could just " go back your country" as far as the authorities are concerned. Any problem any change in visa/extension requirements causes visa holders is not their problem as far as they are concerned, it is not something they need to take into consideration ...

As to the "not our problem":  I would agree, except they manufacture non-existent problems - the "source of your foreign income" or "prove your work-permit is real," and "we disregard the covid deferred-tax holiday on your Thai earnings."   On the last one, even the Sept date is too early to get 3 consecutive "on time" tax-payment statements." which are required for those with Thai incomes - even though the "rules" state only proving 2 mo of income to apply.

 

Bottom line, they MAKE things a problem, which should be outside of their purview.  Then, they play it both ways, and say, "Not our problem," when we cannot enter any nearby country - even to temporarily move there, remaining somewhat close to our families, until we can re-enter Thailand as before. 

 

Quote

... (unless it gets mass bad press overseas).  In fairness to the Thai authorities our visas are clearly delineated as "Non Immigrant", and they mean it.

The fact that those with Thai families cannot easily get PR, or be able to stay here without dealing with dealing annually with immigration's corruption, is another long-tangent involving UN-treaties, etc

 

I agree 100% with the bad-press angle.  It was those huge queues which achieved the initial "covid automatic-extension," and could - maybe, someday, end the agent-scams surrounding family-based extensions - IF we can get the foreign-press to publish about it. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by JackThompson

[mokwit]

45 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I see no evidence of this, because the rules for the visa state nothing of the kind.  Other ME types of visas, including the relatively-new TR-ME, also lack any wording about, "Not to be used to stay in Thailand most of the time."  If they mean that, they can write that into the conditions. 

I reiterate the fact that they have stopped issuing them indicates that they regarded year round stays as misuse, because that was how they were being used. It was the MFA that made the decision to stop issueing them - Immigration may have been consulted/had some sway but it comes under MFA

 

If it was meant for a year 'round stay why don't they issue it with 365 days before needing to leave Thailand? Six months on a TR ME is not year round, and look at the conditions - letter from your employer stating that they will rehire you - hardly the stuff of not worrying if people use them to stay LT in Thailand. Also, it never said 'not to be used more than twice a year at land borders' on 30 day visa exempt, which by your logic it would, and lo and behold that is the rule now because people were using them to stay year 'round with monthly Jack Golf runs (I did this for 2 years once).

 

I think you are seeing what you want to see and as a result are fooling yourself if you think that you will always have the option to get a 1 year multiple entry from Savanaket or wherever - you used to be able to get them in the UK and other countries , now you can't.

 

As you can see I have used various different visas and am just calling it as I see it, not condemning those doing what I did, or wishing they would be locked out of Thailand so I could have it all to myself on my one year visa extension (like many on here)

Edited July 27, 2020 by mokwit

[SEtonal]

12 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I think you are fooling yourself if you think that you will always have the option to get a 1 year multiple entry from Savanaket or wherever - you used to be able to get them in the UK and other countries , now you can't.

 

As you can see I have used various different visas and am just calling it as I see it, not condemning those doing what I did, or wishing they would be locked out of Thailand so I could have it all to myself on my one year visa (like many on here)

I wouldn't be surprised if the multiple entry Non-O was just limited to citizens of ASEAN countries or eliminated altogether.

[mokwit]

24 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the multiple entry Non-O was just limited to citizens of ASEAN countries or eliminated altogether.

I think there is a real justification for a visa to visit a spouse or child, I just don't think that they will issue them with one year validity in future as this allows people to turn them inside out and stay year 'round. I suspect they will issue for 3 months only as they do with Non B.

 

Is it possible to get a NON B multiple entry ANYWHERE now? Intended for people making multiple business trips to Thailand which you would have thought the authorities would encourage, but possibly due to people turning it inside out it has been stopped. Did I read that they are now making things difficult for People on Multiple NON B with work permits? Seems clear, if you want to stay year 'round you will have to meet in country financial requirements, countering the above is the fact that some consuls require the same financial criteria, so that COULD be viewed as accepting the visa will be used for year round stay, but then againI could get a 1yr Multiple NON O from Birmingham by showing 800k in Thailand - the MFA/Embassy stopped that. First they demanded all applications faxed to them then I thinkthey stopped them altogether (not sure on this last).

 

Once the online appointment/preclearing system is rolled out to all Consuls it will become 'fortress Thailand' - IMO they will link with Immigration who will hard code what they regard as suspicious visa histories and you will be refused an appointment.

 

Which causes less fuss - refusing a visa appointment at a Consul outside Thailand or turning somebody back at the airport? (yes I know the suspicions as to motive for refusal in country)

Edited July 27, 2020 by mokwit

[homemade514]

On 7/25/2020 at 7:38 AM, stoicccc said:

too late now for the 400k in the bank for 2 months before the announced amnesty ends. But not too late for 2x 40k transfers.

What 2x 40k transfers? Isn’t it a full year??

[mokwit]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

IMO they will link with Immigration who will hard code what they regard as suspicious visa histories and you will be refused an appointment.

Not "you" specifically, talking generally here.

Edited July 27, 2020 by mokwit

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, homemade514 said:

What 2x 40k transfers? Isn’t it a full year??

First application 2 x 40K transfers.

Thereafter annually, 12 x 40K transfers.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Once the online appointment/preclearing system is rolled out to all Consuls it will become 'fortress Thailand' - IMO they will link with Immigration who will hard code what they regard as suspicious visa histories and you will be refused an appointment.

That does not exist at this time. At the 3 embassies that are participating in the e-visa system it is still a local decision.

The e-visa application is why the UK embassy had to stop doing multiple entry non-o visa since it based around the Beijing embassy rules.

The e-visa thing has been going since February of last year and there is still only 3 embassies participating in it.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Once the online appointment/preclearing system is rolled out to all Consuls it will become 'fortress Thailand' - IMO they will link with Immigration who will hard code what they regard as suspicious visa histories and you will be refused an appointment.

You don't need an appointment, hence why it's called the e-visa 'online' application system.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Tanoshi

[mokwit]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You don't need an appointment, hence why it's called the e-visa 'online' application system.

I thought with Vientiane you booked an appointment at the Consul?

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I thought with Vientiane you booked an appointment at the Consul?

You need a appointment to do the application. Nothing to it other than registering and selecting the date you want the appointment for.

Kuala Lumpur also requires one and it is easier than Vientiane.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

I thought with Vientiane you booked an appointment at the Consul?

What you described was the e-visa online application system, only rolled out to China, UK and France but reportedly being rolled out across all Thai Embassies.

 

Vientiane is just an online booking appointment system.

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

What you described was the e-visa online application system, only rolled out to China, UK and France but reportedly being rolled out across all Thai Embassies.

I think the e-visa has flopped badly. There has not been a embassy or official consulate added to it for over a year now.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the e-visa has flopped badly. There has not been a embassy or official consulate added to it for over a year now.

Against that backdrop, my previously non updated view that it would be used to create a 'fortress Thailand' as far as visas was concerned looks wrong (had been keeping away from TV).

Edited July 28, 2020 by mokwit

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the e-visa has flopped badly. There has not been a embassy or official consulate added to it for over a year now.

Agree, I think it was a trail before they rolled it out to the Countries.

One of the issues for many users, is Thai 'online' sites often only work effectively using certain browsers, they are not designed for use with all browsers.

Personally, I've had no issues using 'Edge' or 'Internet Explorer'.

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Agree, I think it was a trail before they rolled it out to the Countries.

I think many embassies have not done it since it has no flexibility to to use their local requirements for visas.

I think the one that most do not want to adopt is the no multiple entry non-o visas. The is why the UK embassy had to stop issuing them.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think many embassies have not done it since it has no flexibility to to use their local requirements for visas.

I think the one that most do not want to adopt is the no multiple entry non-o visas. The is why the UK embassy had to stop issuing them.

Agreed, the Thai Embassy in the UK did protest, before it was forced upon them.

The Non Imm O ME was a popular choice for those married to Thais and regular visitors such as oil workers.

 

[mokwit]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

Agreed, the Thai Embassy in the UK did protest, before it was forced upon them.

The Non Imm O ME was a popular choice for those married to Thais and regular visitors such as oil workers.

 

Interestingly, the embassy stopped Consuls such as Birmingham from issuing them. There was aphase when applications had to be faxed to the Embassy for approval and then I think they could not issue them at all.

[homemade514]

19 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

First application 2 x 40K transfers.

Thereafter annually, 12 x 40K transfers.

first application for a year extension based on marriage? or for a non-o visa based on spouse?

 

i have a buddy in this situation. he has a non-o ME that expires in october or november, i cant remember which. he used the 60 day family extension already in april before the amnesty was announced. now on amnesty as of june and he cannot gather the 400,000 for two months but was under the impression the 40k method is for 12 months, not 2?

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, homemade514 said:

first application for a year extension based on marriage?

It is two months of transfer for the first extension of stay application.

But some offices are refusing to accept 2 months if a person has been on a multiple entry non-o visa.

[homemade514]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is two months of transfer for the first extension of stay application.

But some offices are refusing to accept 2 months if a person has been on a multiple entry non-o visa.

understood. otherwise the 400k in bank for 2 months will suffice?

[Tanoshi]

16 minutes ago, homemade514 said:

first application for a year extension based on marriage?

Yes.

 

16 minutes ago, homemade514 said:

or for a non-o visa based on spouse?

For the (90 day) Non O based on spouse just proof of 40K/400K, no seasoning required.

 

18 minutes ago, homemade514 said:

i have a buddy in this situation. he has a non-o ME that expires in october or november, i cant remember which. he used the 60 day family extension already in april before the amnesty was announced. now on amnesty as of june and he cannot gather the 400,000 for two months but was under the impression the 40k method is for 12 months, not 2?

Most offices have already refused annual extension applications when on permission of stay from the amnesty. As your friend has already used his 60 day extension and cannot apply for another legitimate permission of stay, he may be forced to leave by 26th Sept.

He needs to speak to his IO about his case, which they have stated they will consider on a case by case basis. I really can't see them forcing married men to leave if you can meet the financial requirement.

[stoicccc]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Most offices have already refused annual extension applications when on permission of stay from the amnesty. As your friend has already used his 60 day extension and cannot apply for another legitimate permission of stay, he may be forced to leave by 26th Sept.

oh man, that doesn't sound too good. I guess I'll find out next month.