Are asking prices in existing developments "realistic"?

[charliebadenhop]

I look at ads here with people selling units for 15mil and MORE, and often the prices seem like they are quite inflated, and I can't imagine anyone paying the asking price.

 

Is this mostly because I don't really understand the market, or....??

 

Especially when I see places selling for in excess of 30 mil, I say, "holy mackerel, are people really spending more than $US 1 mil for a house here?!?!"

 

 

[Pilotman]

From what I have seen, there are really no 'market rates' in Thailand  for any property. It all ends up with what you are prepared to pay for what you are getting and how low the seller is prepared to go to sell the property.  It's almost impossible to read here, not like in the UK for example. What I am aware of,  is that all public advertised  prices are a fantasy and its all down to private negotiation. I guess that means that the rule of thumb here is, 'never to pay the public asking price'. When we bought our first house here, we did our own market survey, going around a lot of properties, more that 40+ and comparing and contrasting the prices being asked, for what was on offer in build, location and amenities.  That made us comfortable that we were not paying over the odds. 

 

Edit: I meant to add that Property Agents here do not operate in the conventional western sense, in that they will try to sell you what they want to get rid of, rather than show you what you want to see. Just treat them with a whole lot of caution.   

Edited July 25, 2020 by Pilotman

[luckyluke]

Here in Thonglor it is not uncommon to see :

-Start from 17/20 million-

I even saw an advertising : " Only 33 million " ( The "only" is "funny" )

But apparently there are buyers.

Many new constructions going in Thonglor and Ekkamai.

Ekkamai used to be cheaper than Thonglor,

that is changing.

 

[ezzra]

The price of anything is governed by many factors these pages are too short to list them all, it's  also has to do with lots of luck as usually the saying that goes " your property worth exactly what people and the right buyer will be willing to pay for it" ...

Edited July 25, 2020 by ezzra

[Oldie]

It depends pretty much on the location. In Bangkok you for sure pay more than for instance in Pattaya. You see the situation now in Pattaya. Mostly tourist accommodations and still endless space for new projects. This is not the same in Bangkok. 

[worgeordie]

It's a buyers market out there,with all the oversupply of properties,

and with the covid crisis,lack of buyers,any property is only worth

what you are willing to pay for it.

regards worgeordie

 

[bkk6060]

They really are not selling much at all.

A recent article stated there are over 100,000 properties for sale in Bangkok.

They keep building for who and for what?

It is indeed overpriced and inflated in the main areas of Bangkok I would never consider buying a property there.

 

Statement from article:

The demand from foreigners may disappear in the first half following the outbreak,” said Sopon Pornchokchai, the consultancy’s president, adding that there are 100,000 vacant condominiums in and around Bangkok. “We’ll need to rely on local buyers, but that won’t be easy.”

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by bkk6060

[Delight]

If and when one dollar buys 40 baht -things may start to move.

If that were to happen then properties will sell .The Baht price does not need to change.

 The Baht is so over priced that Thailand struggles to sell basic rice.

Q Is the strong Baht all about the prime minister's ego?

[bkk6060]

If they wanted more foreign buyers they could start some type of government sponsored low rate loan program.  I bet the sales would take off like crazy and eventually when the unsold inventory was gone, prices would increase quite a bit especially in places like Pattaya.

But it never ever will happen so a dead money poor investment it will remain.

[Oldie]

3 minutes ago, Delight said:

If and when one dollar buys 40 baht -things may start to move.

If that were to happen then properties will sell .The Baht price does not need to change.

 The Baht is so over priced that Thailand struggles to sell basic rice.

Q Is the strong Baht all about the prime minister's ego?

The strong Baht is caused by international speculators - many of them sitting in western countries. The whole Asian crises was caused by them. I am afraid you blame the wrong ones. 

[Oldie]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

If they wanted more foreign buyers they could start some type of government sponsored low rate loan program.  I bet the sales would take off like crazy and eventually when the unsold inventory was gone, prices would increase quite a bit especially in places like Pattaya.

But it never ever will happen so a dead money poor investment it will remain.

They will have NPL enough because of Corona already. And loans for foreigners - even more risky. 

[AlfHuy]

I went to see a new Condo in On Nut. Completed a few months ago. Just for curiosity.

The smallest unit, under 30m2.

I spoke with the girls and asked, how things are.

She said, all sold!!!

Why?

Yes, we had a big promotion, 50% off.

I asked her, how much the price was after 50% off. She said, 2,4Million Baht. 55555

That is the going rate here for such small units.

How stupid someone can be? Just seeing a 50% discount and jumping on it (price before was never ever 4,8Million).

 

Such shoeboxes, low quality, build in a few months, noisy.

 

No, thanks. Even not as an investment.

 

 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Thai style man. They don't want to budge from those asking prices. Maybe it's a face thing, maybe it's a tax dodge. Out in the provinces where I lived, abandoned businesses and buildings sit there for years rotting away, with faded for sale signs still on them.

 

Well, it doesn't hurt to keep throwing offers at them. Someone's gotta give in eventually.

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, AlfHuy said:

I went to see a new Condo in On Nut. Completed a few months ago. Just for curiosity.

The smallest unit, under 30m2.

I spoke with the girls and asked, how things are.

She said, all sold!!!

Why?

Yes, we had a big promotion, 50% off.

I asked her, how much the price was after 50% off. She said, 2,4Million Baht. 55555

That is the going rate here for such small units.

How stupid someone can be? Just seeing a 50% discount and jumping on it (price before was never ever 4,8Million).

 

Such shoeboxes, low quality, build in a few months, noisy.

 

No, thanks. Even not as an investment.

 

 

As it was sold out, they for sure will handle their  new development in the same way.

[bkk6060]

13 minutes ago, AlfHuy said:

I went to see a new Condo in On Nut. Completed a few months ago. Just for curiosity.

The smallest unit, under 30m2.

I spoke with the girls and asked, how things are.

She said, all sold!!!

Why?

Yes, we had a big promotion, 50% off.

I asked her, how much the price was after 50% off. She said, 2,4Million Baht. 55555

That is the going rate here for such small units.

How stupid someone can be? Just seeing a 50% discount and jumping on it (price before was never ever 4,8Million).

 

Such shoeboxes, low quality, build in a few months, noisy.

 

No, thanks. Even not as an investment.

 

 

Oh Nuts use to be considered way way out there.

Now, with the Skytrain extension and some development around there it is more desirable.

I don't like like the area , but actually for that price and if walking to skytrain it is not terrible for the current market pricing.

 

To add, there are several older condo buildings (15 to 20 years) in BKK some off lower Sukhumvit that are in the remodel age.

You can pick up one of those for less and the older buildings usually have larger units.  Just will need add the cost of a remodel but could be a better deal then one of these new way over priced projects.

[AlfHuy]

4 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Oh Nuts use to be considered way way out there.

Now, with the Skytrain extension and some development around there it is more desirable.

I don't like like the area , but actually for that price and if walking to skytrain it is not terrible for the current market pricing.

 

To add, there are several older condo buildings (15 to 20 years) in BKK some off lower Sukhumvit that are in the remodel age.

You can pick up one of those for less and the older buildings usually have larger units.  Just will need add the cost of a remodel but could be a better deal then one of these new way over priced projects.

That is what I would consider.

An old building, better quality, much bigger.

I don't need the fancy lobby. A good quality building which I could refurbish to my taste.

A friend of mine bought recently a 200m2 apartment and did a full refurbishment. He paid 4,8Million, close to Mega Bangna.

[innosiem]

probably a few contributing factors at play, face also being a big part as @CrunchWrapSupreme stated
once they have set their price they will not budge
and will be prepared to wait 10-20 years until the currency has devalued so they get their price????‍♂️
another issue is land office deciding the value, this creates a minimum value that nobody wants to sell anywhere near at
(just like as soon as minimum wage is introduced nobody wants to work for it)
not forgetting the amount of credit used for purchases in past 10 years pumping the prices up each time property change hands as they must cover what they owe
and the fact most land is now only priced for development

biggest problem is nobody is really buying
i know people who have been living in Thailand for 3-4 years as they want to sell their (higher end) property but cannot
the only time you see realistic prices is when someone is desperate for cash

then we get to the agents????‍♂️
they jack the price up stupidly
i always avoid agents
when i bought my house (without an agent)
the owner told me the agent that was trying to sell for him would have taken a whopping 15% commission
from a 6 million baht sale (900k commission)
(i know commission is not usually this high, but varies here agent to agent)

Edited July 25, 2020 by innosiem

[AlfHuy]

2 minutes ago, innosiem said:

probably a few contributing factors at play, face also being a big part as @CrunchWrapSupreme stated
once they have set their price they will not budge
and will be prepared to wait 10-20 years until the currency has devalued so they get their price????‍♂️
another issue is land office deciding the value, this creates a minimum value that nobody wants to sell anywhere near at
(just like as soon as minimum wage is introduced nobody wants to work for it)
not forgetting the amount of credit used for purchases in past 10 years pumping the prices up each time property change hands as they must cover what they owe
and the fact most land is now only priced for development

biggest problem is nobody is really buying
i know people who have been living in Thailand for 3-4 years as they want to sell their (higher end) property but cannot
the only time you see realistic prices is when someone is desperate for cash

then we get to the agents????‍♂️
they jack the price up stupidly
i always avoid agents
when i bought my house (without an agent)
the owner told me the agent that was trying to sell for him would have taken a whopping 15% commission
from a 6 million baht sale (800k commission)
(i know commission is not usually this high, but varies here agent to agent)

15%/6,000.000=900,000

[xylophone]

14 minutes ago, innosiem said:

biggest problem is nobody is really buying
i know people who have been living in Thailand for 3-4 years as they want to sell their (higher end) property but cannot

Same here in the party town of Patong Beach, nobody is really buying and many of the property booths run by the developers have now closed down because there are absolutely no buyers around.

 

Way before the virus, properties were on the market here for years with nothing much selling at all and to give you an idea, I have a friend who has a beautiful large house 3/4 bedrooms, huge lounge and kitchen, swimming pool and lovely grounds, just a few minutes from the beach and he has reduced the price from 16 million baht to 13 million baht in the hope of getting a buyer, but no luck.

 

A friend sold his small two-storey house for 3.5 million baht about a year ago, when he paid about 5 million for it.

 

Another couple I know bought a luxury penthouse apartment with sea views, for 18 million baht, and when they went to sell it because they were moving away, the best they could get was 11 million baht, so they took it.

 

15 minutes ago, innosiem said:

then we get to the agents????‍♂️
they jack the price up stupidly

Agents have just about free rein to do whatever they want, especially in this market of scarce buyers and I know of one particular agent who charges 10% commission........and wonders why he's not selling anything.

 

The other trick is to inflate the price by a couple of million baht (or similar) and that extra in the price goes to the agent when it settles.

[innosiem]

19 minutes ago, AlfHuy said:

15%/6,000.000=900,000

????????‍♂️

[Airalee]

The deals are out there.

 

Find a complex that is close to completion.  Foreigners who put down payments of 30-35 percent can’t close because 1.  They can’t get back into Thailand and 2.  Their currencies have depreciated significantly over the last 3-4 years since the original down payment (if they come from EU/AUS/NZ/UK)  They risk losing 100% of their deposit and the condo goes back to the developer.  They will prefer to get 10% of their deposit back instead of losing it all.  Buying from a Thai will be harder as they have lower down payments and if they already “own” the unit, it’s not uncommon for them to finance between 90-110% of the purchase price.  This means they will have to bring money to the table in order to get out from under the loan.
 

Figure out the P/E ratio based on a realistic renting price.  Many places are asking 300x monthly rent (or more).  If you get in at 200 or below you’re doing good (if it’s a desirable building).  
 

Get a foreign agent. (I used Benjamin at Imomi).  The Thai agents (from what I have found) are afraid to “lose face” by making lowball offers.

[bodga]

13 minutes ago, Airalee said:

The Thai agents (from what I have found) are afraid to “lose face” by making lowball offers.

you  need  to  look  harder then

[Airalee]

6 minutes ago, bodga said:

you  need  to  look  harder then

I already bought.  If you know of some, post their names here.  I’m sure people would appreciate it.

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, AlfHuy said:

How stupid someone can be? Just seeing a 50% discount and jumping on it (price before was never ever 4,8Million).

 

Think big 50% off signs are like red cloaks to a bull to a lot of Thais

[Leef]

2 hours ago, Oldie said:

The strong Baht is caused by international speculators - many of them sitting in western countries. The whole Asian crises was caused by them. I am afraid you blame the wrong ones. 

Spoken like a member of the Thai government. All ways Someone else’s fault and usually a Westerner! Do you blame the gambler for the bookies losses as well? Thailand had a huge level of debt before the crisis. Most if not all financial crisis are caused by governments interference in the markets. That interference may take years to play out but eventually it will. Meanwhile the government whose policies caused it has long since buggered off to their mansions. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Leef

[Oldie]

5 minutes ago, Leef said:

Spoken like a member of the Thai government. All ways Someone else’s fault and usually a Westerner! Do you blame the gambler for the bookies losses as well? Thailand had a huge level of debt before the crisis. Most if not all financial crisis are caused by governments interference in the markets. That interference may take years to play out but eventually it will. Meanwhile the government whose policies caused it has long since buggered off to their mansions. 

The US always wants to put Thailand on the currency manipulator list because they keep the Baht artificially low. The US wants to see the Baht higher. In respect of debt in foreign currency that Thailand had before the crisis. Correct but some western speculators used exactly this to almost destroy the country for their own benefit. 

[Delight]

3 hours ago, Oldie said:

The strong Baht is caused by international speculators - many of them sitting in western countries. The whole Asian crises was caused by them. I am afraid you blame the wrong ones. 

 I do not.

The 1997  crisis was caused by an over valued Thai Baht. I dollar 25 Baht. This was set by the government at the time.

The market knew that the Baht -at that time -was over valued.

With those conditions in place the speculators pounced.

Today things are different. Thai law states that you can buy as much Thai Baht as you like-however you can only exit Thai Baht  from Thailand -max. 50,000 dollars per day.

This means that the currency speculators have to speculate some where else.

To repeat the root cause of the 1997 crisis was the over valued Thai Baht-not the speculators.

 

 

 

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

sure overpriced... lived in a house, build by cheap labor, but still 5.8 million, 3 bedrooms

 

now, one extra bedroom (4) house = 12 million baht, totally not worth it

 

<deleted>ty materials, you can heard a dog fart 30 meters away ....

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

There is only one important factor in the price...

 

what you are willing to pay for it.. 

 

if it seems too expensive - or not worth it... repeat: person woman man camera tv

 

and move on to the next... for me, my patience has been rewarded. 

 

[Deli]

Checked some prices in Cha Am, totally outta discussion and off market.

Asking for ruins 3 to 4 millions. Rennovation would cost the same again.