Germany rejects Trump's proposal to let Russia back into G7 - foreign minister

[Damual Travesty]

I guess my only question here is what exactly is the purpose of keeping the Russians out? What purpose does this serve for Europeans? Is there a mistaken belief out there that the Russians are going to someday un-annex Crimea?

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

The Group of Seven nations is an economic organization composed of seven of the top ten developed economies in the world.  It excludes small economies with high per capita GDP and large economies in which the per capita contribution of GDP is unexceptional, such as China, India, and Russia.  Russia is ranked 57th in the world by per capita GDP.   https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/

 

Russia is a developing nation with a resource dependent economy.  When it becomes a developed nation, and less of an international pariah because of its invasion of neighboring countries, murders in other countries, harassment and worse of journalists and opposition politicians, promotion of conspiracy theories and other fake news, etc., then maybe it will be ready to join the G7.  I won't hold my breath.

 

As to why Trump wants Russia in the G7...that's a very interesting question. 

 

31 minutes ago, Damual Travesty said:

I guess my only question here is what exactly is the purpose of keeping the Russians out? What purpose does this serve for Europeans? Is there a mistaken belief out there that the Russians are going to someday un-annex Crimea?

As I explained earlier, Russia has no business being in.  It is not a large, advanced, developed free market economy.  It is a developing resource dependent economy with a big corruption problem.

[Damual Travesty]

11 hours ago, heybruce said:

As to why Trump wants Russia in the G7...that's a very interesting question. 

I read your commentary and find nothing to disagree with, but there is a bigger picture here regarding Geo-politics, and power. A better question perhaps to ask is why it would be in the US interest for Russia to attend (or to invite them), rather then to pose the question as a personal one from the President of the United States. Think about everything you know regarding the subject of rising and falling power, balance, etc. For one thing, regarding Russia, I do not believe that the USA and Europe necessarily share the same interests here, and perhaps this is a source for future divide. The immediate threat to the United States is NOT Russia by any measure. That reality may be something the Europeans do not wish to admit to.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Damual Travesty
PUNCT

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[mtls2005]

Can't trump just sneak putin in as his plus one? putin sounds the same as melania, rught?

[SABloke]

On 7/27/2020 at 2:16 PM, spidermike007 said:

Absolutely correct. The man has not had a clean bill of health since he was a kid. When I lived in NYC, and was doing commercial real estate, in the 1980's, the first hand stories I would hear about his criminal activity and business tactics would cause anyone to take pause. When he got elected, I already knew who, and what he was. Many did not. You have had the opportunity to find out now. If you still have faith, so be it. 

So I'm guessing the 1980's wasn't the period when the USA had the "moral barometer" you claim it once possessed. When did it have this barometer? Also, I'm assuming that you reported the criminal activity that you heard about. What happened to your reports? Were they investigated? I'm wondering how far back the police incompetence in the US goes...

Edited July 29, 2020 by SABloke

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, SABloke said:

So I'm guessing the 1980's wasn't the period when the USA had the "moral barometer" you claim it once possessed. When did it have this barometer? Also, I'm assuming that you reported the criminal activity that you heard about. What happened to your reports? Were they investigated? I'm wondering how far back the police incompetence in the US goes...

Yes. And the police always put me first on their list when I report corporate theft. 

[Damual Travesty]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:10 AM, heybruce said:

 

As I explained earlier, Russia has no business being in.  It is not a large, advanced, developed free market economy.  It is a developing resource dependent economy with a big corruption problem.

You still did not speak to my question Bruce. And the invitation was to attend was it not? Not to be given membership necessarily, I think Russia is declining to attend anyway without membership, but why would you be opposed to their attending? They are somewhat of an advanced economy. They have nuclear weapons, put up a space station, a modern navy, and air force (all self built) and weapon systems that are quite sophisticated, and not to be taken lightly.

 

So while the free market economy is not developed I would not simply write them off as unworthy, and as they are a previous member that was booted over Crimea, it seams ridiculous to me to keep them from participating. I do not share the tactic of Russian isolation from Europe. I think it unwise. In fact I think that closer relationships with Russia should be formed.

 

From an American perspective, I think keeping your adversary close makes more sense. I simply do not see what the harm is for allowing them back in. I say that especially in light of the rise of a real adversary in the East that has shown now to be a serious threat. As for the invasion of Crimea, I think this was primarily the fault of US/NATO allies appearing to be close to putting Ukraine into NATO which in my opinion was a very unwise move and one that Russia simply could not stomach for their own sense of security. Would love to hear some Russians chime in to this conversation.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Damual Travesty said:

You still did not speak to my question Bruce. And the invitation was to attend was it not? Not to be given membership necessarily, I think Russia is declining to attend anyway without membership, but why would you be opposed to their attending? They are somewhat of an advanced economy. They have nuclear weapons, put up a space station, a modern navy, and air force (all self built) and weapon systems that are quite sophisticated, and not to be taken lightly.

 

So while the free market economy is not developed I would not simply write them off as unworthy, and as they are a previous member that was booted over Crimea, it seams ridiculous to me to keep them from participating. I do not share the tactic of Russian isolation from Europe. I think it unwise. In fact I think that closer relationships with Russia should be formed.

 

From an American perspective, I think keeping your adversary close makes more sense. I simply do not see what the harm is for allowing them back in. I say that especially in light of the rise of a real adversary in the East that has shown now to be a serious threat. As for the invasion of Crimea, I think this was primarily the fault of US/NATO allies appearing to be close to putting Ukraine into NATO which in my opinion was a very unwise move and one that Russia simply could not stomach for their own sense of security. Would love to hear some Russians chime in to this conversation.

Read the first two sentences of the article:

 

"Germany has rejected a proposal by U.S. President Donald Trump to invite Russian President Vladimir Putin back into the Group of Seven (G7) most advanced economies, German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said in a newspaper interview published on Monday."

 

"Trump raised the prospect last month of expanding the G7 to again include Russia, which had been expelled in 2014 following Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea region."

 

Trump wants to invite Russia into the G7, as a member, not as a guest.

 

As I've already explained, Russia does not have an economy that qualifies it as a G7 member.  Russia as a world player has not behaved in a manner that warrants being rewarded with G7 membership.  Putin would use G7 membership to promote his dictatorship in Russia and stir up trouble in the rest of the world.  It's what he does.

Edited July 30, 2020 by heybruce

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.