Six U.S. mayors urge Congress to block Trump federal deployment

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/1/2020 at 11:19 AM, simple1 said:

Portland had an experiment with self-policing by protesters in a limited area, which failed due to criminal elements which required police intervention. Another way of looking at the situation is an experiment with de-escalation tactic. Personally, I believe it is hyperbole to claim 'city authorities prevent the police from enforcing law and order". Unfortunately, it is proven that so called non-lethal weapons do sometimes cause serious injury or death, it does appear police require more stringent training and policies as to when to authorise their use. e.g. don't shoot reporters or others in the head with a 'non-lethal' weapon.

Any authority that DIDN'T take into account the actions of criminals and anarchists joining in is too incompetent to be in a position of authority, IMO.

 

If journalists don't wear appropriate headgear to protect themselves during a riot, they have, IMO, only themselves to blame if injured, just as it would be my own fault if I had a head injury riding a m'bike and had an accident while not wearing a crash helmet. They don't seem to have a problem finding suitable headgear while reporting from war zones, even if miles and miles and miles behind the lines. Thugs can avoid injury by not taking part in riots.

Never mind, it's always easier to blame someone else, isn't it?

[simple1]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

<SNIP> it's always easier to blame someone else, isn't it?

What were you saying about personal attacks? Never blamed 'someone else' - commented on facts which have been brought to attention e.g. unlawful violent attacks by law enforcement against journalists. Plenty of examples - use Google. An example...

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/channel-7-journalists-assaulted-police-george-floyd-protesters/12312056

[Meat Pie 47]

On 7/28/2020 at 2:57 PM, Boon Mee said:

The Democrats are in a tizzy to do anything they can to disrupt the Trump economy so... rape, pillage and burn until November. 

 

Very sad... 

yes very sad commend

[johnnybangkok]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL.

Judging from the posts on TVF, a lot of people "fear" Trump, and his re election.

Absolutely. It's VERY scary. 

If he gets re-elected then I fear for equality, compassion, fairness, the environment, world peace, the rise of more despots, an increase in bogotry, racism and xenophobia. 

This is what's riding on this election.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/2/2020 at 1:21 AM, EVENKEEL said:

 

https://www.artemis.bm/news/riots-could-turn-2020-into-a-capital-event-pcs-designates-riots-as-a-catastrophe/Update, Jun 3rd: 

 

The riots have now been designated as a catastrophe in more than 20 U.S. states by PCS, 

 

 

The whole thing you're quoting appears to be an insurance industry designation, which pretty much means close to nothing in the overall political context of things including the issues involving Trump's use of armed federal agents in cities where they were not wanted or requested by local authorities... and whose presence ended up worsening the civil disturbances, not resolving them.

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The whole thing you're quoting appears to be an insurance industry designation, which pretty much means close to nothing in the overall political context of things including the issues involving Trump's use of armed federal agents in cities where they were not wanted or requested by local authorities... and whose presence ended up worsening the civil disturbances, not resolving them.

 

 

We'll see how next to nothing it means that democrats stood by and let cities burn. Hey folks who had your livelihoods destroyed, it pretty means pretty close to nothing. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

We'll see how next to nothing it means that democrats stood by and let cities burn. Hey folks who had your livelihoods destroyed, it pretty means pretty close to nothing. 

 

I think you mean, the presence of armed federal stormtroopers exacerbated the existing protests and made the situation worse for everyone -- local law enforcement, the protesters and residents and businesses in the area.

 

BTW, I haven't seen any "cities burning" in the current rounds of protests. Some isolated fires yes, but cities, no...

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[johnnybangkok]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

We'll see how next to nothing it means that democrats stood by and let cities burn. Hey folks who had your livelihoods destroyed, it pretty means pretty close to nothing. 

Ok lets just put an end to this. There has been trouble in Portland for 60 odd days now, please list ALL of the buildings that have burned in the city. By your designation of 'democrats stood by and let cities burn' there should be plenty so name me 5?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Ok lets just put an end to this. There has been trouble in Portland for 60 odd days now, please list ALL of the buildings that have burned in the city. By your designation of 'democrats stood by and let cities burn' there should be plenty so name me 5?

 

He's obviously been watching too much Fox (Faux) News or even better, One America News.... where I'm sure "U.S. cities burning" is a regular headline... except of course for the fact that, they're not.

 

[Scott]

Baiting, bickering posts and replies removed.   Please keep it civil. 

 

[EVENKEEL]

Seattle is on the fast track to abolish the police, nothing to see here folks, makes perfect sense to me. Police are just not sensitive enough.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/seattle-city-council-move-to-abolish-police-department-with-new-bill/

[johnnybangkok]

53 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Seattle is on the fast track to abolish the police, nothing to see here folks, makes perfect sense to me. Police are just not sensitive enough.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/seattle-city-council-move-to-abolish-police-department-with-new-bill/

You asserted that “cities are burning” so we asked you to name 5 buildings in Portland that have burned. Instead of answering that question, you have pivoted to a completely different subject (see above).  Can you please answer the original question so we can decide once and for all exactly what “cities are burning”. 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Seattle is on the fast track to abolish the police, nothing to see here folks, makes perfect sense to me. Police are just not sensitive enough.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/seattle-city-council-move-to-abolish-police-department-with-new-bill/

And whilst we are on the subject, Seattle is not talking about abolishing the police. That is not what defunding means. They are talking about reducing the police force and with the money saved, re-direct it to a new Department of Community Safety, which will be more focused on prevention. A slightly more balanced version of events (as opposed to Murdochs usual sensationlist right wing rag) is available here https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-city-council-members-propose-police-layoffs-but-say-they-cant-defund-by-50-right-away/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, stevenl said:

Why oh why are you spreading incorrect news. Please don't answer.

 

More fake news from Trump fans and their fake news websites...

 

In reality, Seattle appears to be heading in exactly the opposite direction (from a local and credible news source as of yest):

 

https://komonews.com/news/local/push-to-defund-seattle-police-department-by-50-percent-losing-steam-in-city-council

 

Quote

 

Push to defund Seattle Police Department by 50 percent losing steam in City Council

SEATTLE — On Monday, support to defund the Seattle Police Department by 50 percent appeared to lose steam within Seattle’s City Council.
 

Councilmember Kshama Sawant called out her colleagues for backpedaling after 7 of 9 councilmembers committed in July to cutting the department in half.

...

SPD’s 2020 remaining unspent budget is estimated at $188 million. Sawant is proposing to cut $85 million from SPD’s 2020 budget. On Monday, she proposed an amendment that strips SPD by $34.7 million and allocates it to the Office of Housing. No councilmembers signed on to support this amendment.

It's unfortunate that ThaiVisa seems to allow members to continually post not just personal opinions, but claimed news reports from thoroughly un-credible sources. And those doing this do it repeatedly with no apparent blowback for posting blatantly false "news" from fringe sources that anyone could learn is false if they just spent 2 minutes to check its veracity.  But no, lies and falsehoods are their craft and trade, in emulation of their leader.

 

And earlier from July 23:

 

Quote

 

Seattle police face 5% cut, not 50%, as council responds to police chief's accusation

 

SEATTLE - Mayor Jenny Durkan is proposing to cut the budget of the Seattle Police Department by 5% for the remainder of 2020. It’s far short than the draconian cuts of 50% some have called for - including at least one City Council member.
 

The cut is part of a $378 million budget rebalancing plan the mayor sent to the council Tuesday night for its approval. The effects of COVID-19 and the resulting loss of tax revenue has let to an extraordinary mid-year of the city’s $6 billion-dollar budget.

 

The mayor’s office is estimating COVID-related expenses for the year to amount to $233 million - a number that wasn’t even contemplated with the budget was passed in November. Police would see the largest cut of any city department - $20 million - but that represents roughly 5% of the police force's $409 million 2020 budget.

 

https://komonews.com/news/local/mayor-durkans-proposed-budget-slashes-20-million-from-seattle-police-department

Edited August 4, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

And whilst we are on the subject, Seattle is not talking about abolishing the police. That is not what defunding means. They are talking about reducing the police force and with the money saved, re-direct it to a new Department of Community Safety, which will be more focused on prevention. A slightly more balanced version of events (as opposed to Murdochs usual sensationlist right wing rag) is available here https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-city-council-members-propose-police-layoffs-but-say-they-cant-defund-by-50-right-away/

Read please, this is a bill they are proposing. See even you think it's crazy.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, stevenl said:

50% of the police budget reallocation in that proposal, not as you claim 'getting rid of the police'.

 

And even that proposal hasn't been endorsed by Seattle's mayor, nor has it been approved by the Seattle City Council.

 

[johnnybangkok]

If anyone is interested, this is defunding the police explained  

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CDefund%20the%20police%E2%80%9D%20means%20reallocating,It's%20that%20simple.&text=And%2C%20even%20some%20who%20say,away%20with%20law%20enforcement%20altogether.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I see comprehension is not your thing.

No one is talking about getting rid of the police. That is not what defunding is about. Defunding is taking parts of the police budget and moving it to other departments such as housing or community causes in an attempt to stop problems at the source rather than what happens now which sees overstretched police departments having to deal with things such as homelessness or mentaly ill people or domestic violence, which they are ill equiped to handle. By taking these problems away from the police, the police in turn are allowed to focus on reducing proper crime such as theft or homicide or drugs etc. In extreme examples, it can mean suspending all police officers and getting them to re-apply for their jobs (usually when there is overtly racist elements taking over a police service) but this is rare and not what most are talking about when talking about defunding.

 

 

Well put and explained....

 

I personally don't have an informed opinion on whether the 50% plan is a good one for Seattle, since I don't live there and am not very familiar with their local circumstances.

 

But I will say one thing -- if any city/jurisdiction's law enforcement agency persists in illegally brutalizing its own citizens, engaging in violence against peaceful protesters and observers, following racist/discriminatory policing practices... then... the most direct and obvious way citizens have to get their attention and enact reforms is through the police budgeting process... 

 

After all, it IS the public and citizens of those communities who are paying their salaries, and whom they're supposedly sworn to protect, not to abuse.

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Well put and explained....

 

I personally don't have an informed opinion on whether the 50% plan is a good one for Seattle, since I don't live there and am not very familiar with their local circumstances.

 

But I will say one thing -- if any city/jurisdiction's law enforcement agency persists in illegally brutalizing its own citizens, engaging in violence against peaceful protesters and observers, following racist/discriminatory policing practices... then... the most direct and obvious way citizens have to get their attention and enact reforms is through the police budgeting process... 

 

After all, it IS the public and citizens of those communities who are paying their salaries, and whom they're supposedly sworn to protect, not to abuse.

 

Exactly. The main point though is getting the right people to do the right job. Currently in most US cities the police are called for ANY problem and since they are first of all armed and secondly not trained particularly well to de-esculate problems, it then comes as no surprise that so many people get shot for very little reason.  

We get told constantly that a few bad apples can't be held up as representative of the majority but the situations themselves are often the problem with individuals with mental health problems being treated as hardened criminals and of course bcause there is a disproportionate of crime committed by black people (it's true so you might as well get it out in the open) again ALL black people are treated as hardened criminals.

Seattle is a very good case in point. The police budget for 2020 is a staggering $400 million. A large part of this budget could be directed at areas that would better serve the community whilst still maintaining a proportionate police precence that is actually there to serve and protect.

The solutions are all there. It just takes the political will to move towards them.  

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

50% of the police budget reallocation in that proposal, not as you claim 'getting rid of the police'.

And that's just the beginning, but I hope they actually pass all these proposals, it will be great entertainment.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

And that's just the beginning, but I hope they actually pass all these proposals, it will be great entertainment.

Thanks for admitting your claims were incorrect.

[EVENKEEL]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Thanks for admitting your claims were incorrect.

Everything I posted was correct as taken from the news. I just think it will be great entertainment if Seattle is able to start the defund process.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/defunding-seattle-police-what-will-council-propose-and-will-mayor-durkan-agree/ar-BB16QEHI

 

Before long they'll be hiring cops for minimum wage. No guns, just a flashlight and a whistle. Sort of like the UK from what I've been told.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by EVENKEEL

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Everything I posted was correct as taken from the news. I just think it will be great entertainment if Seattle is able to start the defund process.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/defunding-seattle-police-what-will-council-propose-and-will-mayor-durkan-agree/ar-BB16QEHI

 

Before long they'll be hiring cops for minimum wage. No guns, just a flashlight and a whistle. Sort of like the UK from what I've been told.

 

'getting rid of police' as you claimed is not true.

[johnnybangkok]

33 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Everything I posted was correct as taken from the news. I just think it will be great entertainment if Seattle is able to start the defund process.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/defunding-seattle-police-what-will-council-propose-and-will-mayor-durkan-agree/ar-BB16QEHI

 

Before long they'll be hiring cops for minimum wage. No guns, just a flashlight and a whistle. Sort of like the UK from what I've been told.

 

You could do a lot worse than emulate the Uk police. Only 4% of homicides in the Uk are due to gun crime resulting in a fraction of gun detahs compared to the US. Obviously the UK has very strict gun laws but importantly, UK police don't carry guns (unless in special units deployed for terrorism etc) and therefore are very well versed in de-escelating problems rather than the shoot first ask questions later doctrine of the US. 

Importantly, police in the UK are not called on for every small problem going as you have a wealth of social services linked to the free NHS. This allows them to police and focus on 'proper' crime rather than getting bogged down with issues better suited to other professionals.

Edited August 4, 2020 by johnnybangkok

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

'getting rid of police' as you claimed is not true.

Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/seattle-city-council-move-to-abolish-police-department-with-new-bill/

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/seattle-city-council-move-to-abolish-police-department-with-new-bill/

That had been shown incorrect quite a few times now.

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That had been shown incorrect quite a few times now.

You mean the NY Post is fake news, OMG

Edited August 4, 2020 by EVENKEEL

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

You mean the NY Post is fake news, OMG

 

First, it's worth noting here that the NY Post is own by Rupert Murdoch-founded News Corp, which probably explains the clickbait right-wing report you keep posting about.

 

Second, their article is simply factually wrong, especially regarding the notion that any such plan is likely to be approved by the Seattle City Council, which just voted this past Monday in an entirely different direction.

 

Earlier today, I posted local KOMO TV station news reports on the Seattle City Council's police debate earlier this week, which was not moving in any way to abolish their police department.

 

But somehow, you always seem to ferret out the right-wing fake and fringe "news" wherever it may be found, and dutifully post it here, without bothering to even doublecheck if what you're posting is actually true. And then you keep repeating and reposting the same false report, even after plainly being shown it's false. Why is that???

 

 

 

Quote

Push to defund Seattle Police Department by 50 percent losing steam in City Council

 

The Seattle mayor is talking about a 5% (not 50%) budget reduction this year for their PD.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Scott]

A series of posts on defunding of the Seattle Police have been removed.   The original source is not credible and the topic is about mayors urging congress to block federal troops being sent in.  

 

Please stay on topic.  

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

And whilst we are on the subject, Seattle is not talking about abolishing the police. That is not what defunding means. They are talking about reducing the police force and with the money saved, re-direct it to a new Department of Community Safety, which will be more focused on prevention. A slightly more balanced version of events (as opposed to Murdochs usual sensationlist right wing rag) is available here https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-city-council-members-propose-police-layoffs-but-say-they-cant-defund-by-50-right-away/

Soooooo, when the thugs are breaking down the door to rob and rape one can call the Department of Community Safety to come and have a conference with the criminals then?