New French Europe minister - Brexit deal possible but not 'at any price'

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

No misfire; I meant the 1983 regulation. Which is why I said "come 1983 and the Common Fisheries Policy." But maybe that was too subtle for you?

 

The CFP has been reformed, renewed and replaced many times since it's inception; the last such being in 2013.

 

The Common Fisheries Policy: origins and development

 

Common Fisheries Policy HC Deb 31 January 1983 vol 36 cc28-106

 

Common Fisheries Policy

 

A moments research, such as Googling "Common Fishing Policy 1983," would have prevented you from embarrassing yourself by yet again displaying your lack of knowledge.

 

Your wording and knowledge of the English language is also lacking. I quote:

 

"Which meant that come 1983 and the Common Fisheries Policy, there were very few British boats fishing in British coastal waters. So as the quotas were based on historical catches, most went to the countries who had historically caught more in those waters than the tiny British coastal fleet had".

 

This reads as if the CFP commenced in 1983. But it was there from the off, within The Treaty of Rome.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/114/a-kozos-halaszati-politika-kezdet-es-fejlemenyek

 

The CFP is the reason why Norway never became a full member of the EEC/EU and I bet they are happy about that now.

 

Such a shame we joined, rejecting Le Club would have saved so much upset.

 

 

Now TGIF and I'm off for my Guinness and Chips (no fish due to the CFP).

 

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 If what you say is true; explain how come those that make it to the UK are a tiny fraction of those camped out in the Pas de Calais.

 

What about the British who fish in French waters, like the scallop fishermen I linked to earlier; are they "fish thieves" too?

 

British who continued to fish while the French were banned by the French government from doing so in order to preserve stocks for the future!

The ones camped out are the ones who won't pay the Frenchies for their overpriced dinghies, so hang in the camps until they can hang off the back of a truck for free. 

Your scallops are borlocks, a poor attempt at deflection with some whataboutery.

[transam]

17 hours ago, Anant72 said:

Gallophobia seems to thrive here. There is a lot of misunderstanding about Europe from the UK side and a lot of hypocrisy: didn't Bojo write against Brexit?  He is a lousy PM and people will regret having him sooner than later. The Covid 19 crisis in the UK has not been a very shining example of good management to start with. Remember the Cummings episode among others? Wasn't Bojo sick with the Covid because he knew better than wearing a mask? Time will tell how the UK fares once the Covid and the Brexit sagas are over. Those who are happy with Brexit and live here will not have to face the consequences. It is easy to gloat from afar. 

 

Oh hello, welcome aboard. Do I know you from somewhere....????

[transam]

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

If French fishermen are stopped from fishing in British waters, what will happen to the British fishermen who currently fish in French waters?

 

Remember the so-called Scallop War? 

 

They can fish in their own waters again.....

[transam]

4 hours ago, david555 said:

Traditional habit ….

Ah, another anti-British jibe, really does make you look...............????

But hey, envy shows in different ways eh....????

[david555]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

Ah, another anti-British jibe, really does make you look...............????

But hey, envy shows in different ways eh....????

Don't worry probably from 1 Jan.2021 It could happen  I start pitying the U.K.  ???? however that shall need a 2 weeks before it starts in full  ????

Edited July 31, 2020 by david555

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Your wording and knowledge of the English language is also lacking. I quote:

 

"Which meant that come 1983 and the Common Fisheries Policy, there were very few British boats fishing in British coastal waters. So as the quotas were based on historical catches, most went to the countries who had historically caught more in those waters than the tiny British coastal fleet had".

 

This reads as if the CFP commenced in 1983. But it was there from the off, within The Treaty of Rome.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/114/a-kozos-halaszati-politika-kezdet-es-fejlemenyek

 

The CFP is the reason why Norway never became a full member of the EEC/EU and I bet they are happy about that now.

 

Such a shame we joined, rejecting Le Club would have saved so much upset.

 

Now TGIF and I'm off for my Guinness and Chips (no fish due to the CFP).

 

 0/10; poor effort.

 

Nothing in the part you have quoted, or any other part of my post, is incorrect.

 

I know the history of the CFP; I linked to it, remember? Same link as yours, in fact.

 

I repeat my quote from that document

Quote

3. CFP regulations and reforms

a. The 1983 regulation

In 1983, after several years of negotiations, the Council adopted Regulation (EEC) No 170/83, establishing the new generation CFP,

(7by7 emphasis)

What about "establishing the new generation CFP" is that you can't comprehend?

 

Of course, as I again said, that regulation has since been superseded several times, the last being in 2013.

 

You dropped a ballock. I know you'll never admit it, but better to have kept quiet than embarrass yourself further with the above feeble excuse.

 

 

[7by7]

21 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The ones camped out are the ones who won't pay the Frenchies for their overpriced dinghies, so hang in the camps until they can hang off the back of a truck for free.

 You of course know this from your barstool 6,000 miles away.

 

Maybe you have a source; a connection to French people smugglers, perhaps?

 

22 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Your scallops are borlocks, a poor attempt at deflection with some whataboutery.

 

You complain about French fishermen stealing our fish, but when it's the other way around you call it a deflection!

 

Just as expected from you; you consistently dismiss all facts which show the ignorance of your prejudice in that manner. 

 

[7by7]

33 minutes ago, transam said:

<snip>

the UK's fishing industry was decimated by being in the EU

No, the UK's fishing industry was decimated by the refusal of  British fleet owners to convert the distant water fleet to coastal fishing after the cod wars. Preferring instead to scrap the vessels and make the men redundant.

 

Even then, the situation would not have been so dire if the British government had not allowed British licence holders to sell their licences to the highest, usually foreign, bidder.

 

I refer you once again to Privatising the seas: how the UK turned fishing rights into a commodity and suggest you read it this time.

 

38 minutes ago, transam said:

Oh, and they should sort all those immigrants out that are camped up on their soil, instead of helping them to get to the UK....

If you, @Loiner and others who make the same accusation are so sure about this, why do you never produce even a single credible source to back it up?

 

 

 

[Loiner]

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 You of course know this from your barstool 6,000 miles away.

 

Maybe you have a source; a connection to French people smugglers, perhaps?

 

 

You complain about French fishermen stealing our fish, but when it's the other way around you call it a deflection!

 

Just as expected from you; you consistently dismiss all facts which show the ignorance of your prejudice in that manner. 

 

Yes, of course I know., as does everybody in the UK. Where would you know any different from - are you close to the illegals?

 

So you think a couple of scallops may have been caught by a UK fisherman, which makes it OK for the EU to demand rights to plunder the UK's sovereign waters? Yes, that's just your whataboutery and anti-UK prejudice at it again.

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

If you, @Loiner and others who make the same accusation are so sure about this, why do you never produce even a single credible source to back it up?

 

 

 

Because we are not playing your 'teacher setting homework' games. Some of us have more to do than waste time google trawling for dubious backup as you.

[7by7]

36 minutes ago, transam said:

They can fish in their own waters again

The UK fleet already catches most of it's fish in UK waters with the second highest source being EU waters; Statistics show where UK vessels fish and what is landed from our waters

Quote

In 2017, UK fishing vessels landed the majority of their catch from UK waters; 80 per cent by quantity and 83 per cent by value.

The waters of other EU member states were the second most important region for the UK’s fleet; accounting for 13% by quantity and 9% by value of the UK’s total landings in 2017. Landings from third country waters (such as Norway) and international waters made up the remainder.

 

Not how much comes from French waters; 14,000 tonnes, £17 million.

 

I'll grant you those figures are three years old; but if you have more up to date ones showing a different picture, please produce them.

 

I'll also grant you that much of the fleet, and hence the quota, is foreign owned; thanks to the actions of the British government (see my post above). But they still land much of their catch in the UK and employ British crews. Brexit trade deal: Who really owns UK fishing quotas?

Quote

Current rules say even if vessels are 100% foreign-owned, they must have an "economic link" to the UK. That means they must meet one of five conditions, which include landing more than half their catch at UK ports or having majority British crews.

 

Note also

Quote

Under plans outlined in the Fisheries Bill, which is currently going through Parliament, the government does not intend to return the foreign-owned quota to UK fishermen.

 

So what, exactly, will Brexit achieve for British fishermen?

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Yes, of course I know. , as does everybody in the UK.

You know that how?

17 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Where would you know any different from - are you close to the illegals?

You are the one claiming to know all about people smuggling across the Channel; so how close are you to the migrants and smugglers? (See, I can make absurd accusations, too!)

 

17 minutes ago, Loiner said:

So you think a couple of scallops may have been caught by a UK fisherman, which makes it OK for the EU to demand rights to plunder the UK's sovereign waters? Yes, that's just your whataboutery and anti-UK prejudice at it again.

It is not a couple of scallops; it's tonnes!

 

From my previous: "Note how much comes from French waters; 14,000 tonnes, £17 million."

 

For more facts; see my previous posts.  

 

Not that'll you accept those fact or even try and find some with which to dispute them. Your attitude to facts is summed up by 

14 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Because we are not playing your 'teacher setting homework' games. Some of us have more to do than waste time google trawling for dubious backup as you.

You've plenty of time to waste posting absurd, unfounded myths which are easily disproven. Maybe if you devoted a fraction of that time looking for facts to support your arguments you wouldn't make a fool of yourself as often as you do!

Edited July 31, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[Harry Fingerling]

[herfiehandbag]

On 7/29/2020 at 7:14 PM, lungbing said:

I thought France had a very long coastline of its own.  Go and fish there.

Over the years they have so overfished it that all the fish stocks have been hoovered up. That is why they are so desperate to keep access to the UK fishing waters.

[herfiehandbag]

On 7/30/2020 at 9:40 AM, nabbie said:

What concessions? Happy if no deal??? 

 

U.K. will terminate the member of EU & stop the access to all the EU services & goods.

 

U.K. will need many new trades to replace them - perhaps from USA?    

OK, so you are suggesting that if the UK do not allow the French fishermen unrestricted access to the UK waters, then France will cease all trade with the UK. 

 

That should go down well with all the farmers, industries and producers who sell into the UK.

 

Of course, France being the main transit route into the British Isles you will also be able to prevent most other European countries from trading with the UK!

 

That should go down well with all the other European countries, both EU and non EU.

 

I am sure that the WTO may have a view on such an embargo.

[7by7]

30 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Over the years they have so overfished it that all the (French) fish stocks have been hoovered up. That is why they (the French) are so desperate to keep access to the UK fishing waters.

 

Really?

 

Then explain how the UK fleet alone is able to catch an average of 14,000 tonnes a year in French waters. (Source)

[CG1 Blue]

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Really?

 

Then explain how the UK fleet alone is able to catch an average of 14,000 tonnes a year in French waters. (Source)

Considering the French are our neighbours, 14,000 tonnes out of a total of 581,000 tonnes is not a lot. 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You know that how?

You are the one claiming to know all about people smuggling across the Channel; so how close are you to the migrants and smugglers? (See, I can make absurd accusations, too!)

 

It is not a couple of scallops; it's tonnes!

 

From my previous: "Note how much comes from French waters; 14,000 tonnes, £17 million."

 

For more facts; see my previous posts.  

 

Not that'll you accept those fact or even try and find some with which to dispute them. Your attitude to facts is summed up by 

You've plenty of time to waste posting absurd, unfounded myths which are easily disproven. Maybe if you devoted a fraction of that time looking for facts to support your arguments you wouldn't make a fool of yourself as often as you do!

It's common knowledge and the whole world knows it, especially the EU, Africa and Asia. Do you not believe it because The Garuniad says it's not so? As for the illegals and trafficers, nice try at putting the same question back to me, but it won't get you anywhere. Do you defend these illegals because you are close to them somehow, or is it your little bit of virtue signalling?

 

Scallops; it's not a problem and not a valid 'whatabout' answer. The only part you are right about is that I won't accept your 'facts'. I don't accept anything you drag up from the depths, twist and turn to suit your position, then try to present as fact.

 

As for being a fool, nobody likes a pompous old windbag, which you certainly come across as on a regular basis. You need to wind your neck in sometimes.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 0/10; poor effort.

 

Nothing in the part you have quoted, or any other part of my post, is incorrect.

 

I know the history of the CFP; I linked to it, remember? Same link as yours, in fact.

 

I repeat my quote from that document

What about "establishing the new generation CFP" is that you can't comprehend?

 

Of course, as I again said, that regulation has since been superseded several times, the last being in 2013.

 

You dropped a ballock. I know you'll never admit it, but better to have kept quiet than embarrass yourself further with the above feeble excuse.

 

 

Talking your usual and, now, expected riddles. Yes, the CFP was altered in 1983 but the existing one had already caused enough damage. 

 

My nuts are secure in their sack. Thanks for your concern.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Really?

 

Then explain how the UK fleet alone is able to catch an average of 14,000 tonnes a year in French waters. (Source)

With difficulty, apart from them poor scallops. 14,000 tonnes a year is nothing. It is a maximum of 1.7% of the total UK catch weight (from the  data within your own source). 

[Jack Hna]

I was and if the option was still there a remainer, but now we have played our hand and covid has helped us realise our position early, difficult. Whilst things maybe not how they were, leaving without a deal allows us to show the EU what hundreds of years of networking globally has done. We are a superpower and we have the backing of the US and of they mess with us you know the US will honour us and do a sweeter deal and that will prompt EU to bend over and lube up.

 

It's Great Britain for a reason and it's time to ensure nobody ever forgets that again.

 

We did a deal with the EU once we will do a better deal very soon. 

 

Sturgeon shut up time to fall inline you are not even a hair on our British ass.

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

9 hours ago, Loiner said:

They won’t keep their illegal immigrants on their side of it. Do you honestly expect they would even try to keep their own fish thieves on their side?

 hardly, but it would be the task of the UK Navy/CoastGuard's to safeguard the fish in UK waters

 

anyway,

how many / how large UKish fishing quotas have been sold/rented out to French companies?

[transam]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

No, the UK's fishing industry was decimated by the refusal of  British fleet owners to convert the distant water fleet to coastal fishing after the cod wars. Preferring instead to scrap the vessels and make the men redundant.

 

Even then, the situation would not have been so dire if the British government had not allowed British licence holders to sell their licences to the highest, usually foreign, bidder.

 

I refer you once again to Privatising the seas: how the UK turned fishing rights into a commodity and suggest you read it this time.

 

If you, @Loiner and others who make the same accusation are so sure about this, why do you never produce even a single credible source to back it up?

 

 

 

Hello, and how are you today....?

[transam]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The UK fleet already catches most of it's fish in UK waters with the second highest source being EU waters; Statistics show where UK vessels fish and what is landed from our waters

 

Not how much comes from French waters; 14,000 tonnes, £17 million.

 

I'll grant you those figures are three years old; but if you have more up to date ones showing a different picture, please produce them.

 

I'll also grant you that much of the fleet, and hence the quota, is foreign owned; thanks to the actions of the British government (see my post above). But they still land much of their catch in the UK and employ British crews. Brexit trade deal: Who really owns UK fishing quotas?

 

Note also

 

So what, exactly, will Brexit achieve for British fishermen?

Freedom, our land and waters once again our control, something that you will never understand..????

[transam]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The UK fleet already catches most of it's fish in UK waters with the second highest source being EU waters; Statistics show where UK vessels fish and what is landed from our waters

 

Not how much comes from French waters; 14,000 tonnes, £17 million.

 

I'll grant you those figures are three years old; but if you have more up to date ones showing a different picture, please produce them.

 

I'll also grant you that much of the fleet, and hence the quota, is foreign owned; thanks to the actions of the British government (see my post above). But they still land much of their catch in the UK and employ British crews. Brexit trade deal: Who really owns UK fishing quotas?

 

Note also

 

So what, exactly, will Brexit achieve for British fishermen?

UK waters quotas will be a thing of the past, or controlled by the UK, not the EU...........Freedom.....????

 

Though about 30 years back, I was told I could not bring Cod ashore via boat using rod and line, Cod stocks were stuffed it seems...

[7by7]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:26 PM, CG1 Blue said:

On 7/31/2020 at 1:47 PM, 7by7 said:

Really?

 

Then explain how the UK fleet alone is able to catch an average of 14,000 tonnes a year in French waters. (Source)

Considering the French are our neighbours, 14,000 tonnes out of a total of 581,000 tonnes is not a lot. 

 

Didn't say that it was. I'll take your word for it that 581,000 tonnes of fish is caught in French waters each year.

 

Thank you for helping to prove the absurdity of @herfiehandbag's comment about the French and French waters

On 7/31/2020 at 1:12 PM, herfiehandbag said:

Over the years they have so overfished it that all the fish stocks have been hoovered up. That is why they are so desperate to keep access to the UK fishing waters.

 

[7by7]

23 hours ago, Loiner said:

It's common knowledge and the whole world knows it, especially the EU, Africa and Asia. Do you not believe it because The Garuniad says it's not so?

I do not believe your absurd comment that the French government are aiding and abetting illegal migration to the UK because the facts, such as the large number of migrants camped out in the Pas de Calais, show it to be untrue.

 

Your politics obviously mean that you refuse to believe anything  published in The Guardian; how about The Daily Mail, or is that too left wing for you as well?

Quote

Massive surge in number of migrants trying to reach Britain as French authorities stop 2,300 people crossing the Channel in 2019 compared to just 586 the year before

 

23 hours ago, Loiner said:

As for the illegals and trafficers, nice try at putting the same question back to me, but it won't get you anywhere. Do you defend these illegals because you are close to them somehow, or is it your little bit of virtue signalling?

Your the one who claims to have knowledge of illegals and traffickers not available to the general public!

 

Where have I ever defended illegal migrants? Only in your imagination.

 

23 hours ago, Loiner said:

Scallops; it's not a problem and not a valid 'whatabout' answer.

How is the example of British fishermen catching scallops in French waters not valid in a discussion about fishing rights? 

 

23 hours ago, Loiner said:

The only part you are right about is that I won't accept your 'facts'. I don't accept anything you drag up from the depths, twist and turn to suit your position, then try to present as fact.

Indeed, facts which defeat your prejudiced, ignorant rants have never been accepted by you.

 

23 hours ago, Loiner said:

As for being a fool, nobody likes a pompous old windbag, which you certainly come across as on a regular basis. You need to wind your neck in sometimes.

Consider the number of times I have proven how prejudiced and ignorant are your rants, then that response is to be expected. 

[7by7]

22 hours ago, nauseus said:

Talking your usual and, now, expected riddles. Yes, the CFP was altered in 1983 but the existing one had already caused enough damage

Not riddles, simply trying to educate you about the CFP and it's various updates, new regulations etc.

 

As you now accept that "the CFP was altered in 1983:" mission accomplished.

 

As for who was responsible for the damage to the British fishing fleet; look at the British owners who scrapped boats and laid off workers and the British government who allowed those owners to sell their licences to foreigners.

 

Facts already presented, but ignored by you as it conflicts with your belief that all this country's ills can be laid at the door of the EU!

[7by7]

22 hours ago, nauseus said:

With difficulty, apart from them poor scallops. 14,000 tonnes a year is nothing. It is a maximum of 1.7% of the total UK catch weight (from the  data within your own source). 

Not the point. The point being that there are fish in French waters.

 

Hence the absurdity of @herfiehandbag's comment about the French and French waters

On 7/31/2020 at 1:12 PM, herfiehandbag said:

Over the years they have so overfished it that all the fish stocks have been hoovered up. That is why they are so desperate to keep access to the UK fishing waters.