Brothels? Not Any More!

[marsbloke]

In a closed topic, Lifelover wrote:

"I see far too much sloppy reporting like the following, which patently fails that distinction: <Pim Kemasingki, editor of Chiang Mai Citylife magazine, who has recently investigated the extent of child abuse in Chiang Mai, says the situation is serious and getting worse. "The police say every brothel they go to, they find under-age kids. There is a whole network of pedophiles in Chiang Mai, but it has gone a lot more underground in recent times," she says.>"

This is an example of why you can't believe what you read in the press. There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.

[john b good]

In a closed topic, Lifelover wrote:

"I see far too much sloppy reporting like the following, which patently fails that distinction: <Pim Kemasingki, editor of Chiang Mai Citylife magazine, who has recently investigated the extent of child abuse in Chiang Mai, says the situation is serious and getting worse. "The police say every brothel they go to, they find under-age kids. There is a whole network of pedophiles in Chiang Mai, but it has gone a lot more underground in recent times," she says.>"

This is an example of why you can't believe what you read in the press. There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.

There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.

Who sez?

Are you saying there are "no more brothels in Chaingmai"?, or are you quoting someone (with tongue in cheek)

Possibly a couple of reasons for them all being shut down last year (which of course they weren't in any event) is that they are illegal, but the main reason would be that the coppers were not getting sufficient by way of protection money.

There are and will be (for the foreseeable future anyway) brothels in the majority of cities and towns in Thailand. As a farang they can be difficult to find but believe it they are there.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The Prime Minister is a zealot it seems, and he hails from Chiang Mai. Perhaps he might take an interest in the subject.

[KevinN]

And due to the fact that he started his career as a 6000 baht per month policeman,he should be able to do wonders with all illegal aspects of life in Thailand.

And as you say,he is from CMX ,he should have a good feel for the things there.

[chanchao]

> The Prime Minister is a zealot it seems, and he hails from Chiang Mai.

> Perhaps he might take an interest in the subject.

You mean to do something against it or partake more in the brothel scene?

> And due to the fact that he started his career as a 6000 baht per

> month policeman

I don't think Taksin was ever on a 6000 baht per month salary.. His family is (and always has been) kind of big in Chiang Mai.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You mean to do something against it or partake more in the brothel scene?

Cheers,

Chanchao

If he becomes a patron, he'll have to make certain that Khun Purachai doesn't find out what he's up to.

[maitembot]

You mean to do something against it or partake more in the brothel scene?

Cheers,

Chanchao

If he becomes a patron, he'll have to make certain that Khun Purachai doesn't find out what he's up to.

Everyone has a darkside. You'll find Purachai in a closet, somewhere...

[astral]

This is very reminicent of the Chief of Police in Bangkok, 10-15 years ago, who said there were no brothels in Bangkok.

All the press came forward and offered to show him the ones just behind his own office!!!

MARSBLOKE does sound like an expert, especially as a newbie?

[p1p]

There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.

It saddens me that people can go through life with such blinkers on. Admittedly, some of the more blatant, Farang oriented brothels were temporarily closed but the vastly more numerous businesses catering to Thais of all classes and tastes were left untouched. You will find examples in most areas of the city if you look closely, but you will not be permitted to partake of their delights unless you have black hair and yellow skin. As a Farang, attempting to gain entry to some of these places can be extremely dangerous to your health.

And yes, the fronts catering to Farangs of unnatural, unpleasant tastes are still up and running behind their curtains and walls of secrecy.

[Johpa]

I don't think Taksin was ever on a 6000 baht per month salary.. His family is (and always has been) kind of big in Chiang Mai.

The family was big enough to get away with murder up Sankhampeng way.

The even get away with the illusion for tourists that Sankampeng is some sort of "silk village," an idea originally dreamt up by an American academic involved with third world "development."

[cutethaigirl]

JBG WROTE

There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.

Who sez?

Are you saying there are "no more brothels in Chaingmai"?, or are you quoting someone (with tongue in cheek)

Possibly a couple of reasons for them all being shut down last year (which of course they weren't in any event) is that they are illegal, but the main reason would be that the coppers were not getting sufficient by way of protection money.

There are and will be (for the foreseeable future anyway) brothels in the majority of cities and towns in Thailand. As a farang they can be difficult to find but believe it they are there.

Nice one

Got a map?

[stroll]

Brothels are illegal, and there is a lot of pressure on to stop the worst abuses, offering prepubescent children for 'services' to farangs.

I inadvertantly stepped into bar who had at least one 14 year old (she proudly informed me when I queried her age and suggested she shouldn't be there) in Korat years ago, and I wish I had kmown what would be the right thing to do about this.

I am interested in discussing this further, but the other thread was closed within the day.

And I still wonder how pedophiles in CM continue getting away with their activities, even after local and foreign authorities have been alerted?

Living in BKK, I do not understand what makes Chiang Mai so prominent in that respect. Maybe this is going on in BKK as well, and I haven't noticed because I am not looking?

[john b good]

JBG WROTE

There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.

Who sez?

Are you saying there are "no more brothels in Chaingmai"?, or are you quoting someone (with tongue in cheek)

Possibly a couple of reasons for them all being shut down last year (which of course they weren't in any event) is that they are illegal, but the main reason would be that the coppers were not getting sufficient by way of protection money.

There are and will be (for the foreseeable future anyway) brothels in the majority of cities and towns in Thailand. As a farang they can be difficult to find but believe it they are there.

Nice one

Got a map?

CTG

Sorry no map!

My old friend who pointed me in the right direction is no more.

I could escort you to where the old ones were and to where some that still exist.

But then again you and me might get sidetracked on the way (by your very own words you claim to be very "desirable)

oops! sorry I think i got you mistaken for a real girl (I mean with real girls equipment)

I think i wuz thinking of "cute thai" or something like that..........

[chanchao]

> Living in BKK, I do not understand what makes Chiang Mai so

> prominent in that respect. Maybe this is going on in BKK as

> well, and I haven't noticed because I am not looking?

I'd say that would be VERY likely.. Keep in mind that a big city is even more anonymous compared to a relative 'small town' environment such as Chiang Mai. There aren't that many things you can hide in this town. (Talking about totally legal but stil juicy things here of course, such as getting a new girlfriend or mia noi. It sometimes feels like when you fart in Hand Dong, people in Mae Jo will be aware of it instantly. People know things about you before you know/acknowledge these things yourself!

And getting back to Bangkok: it's not like theres a shortage of under-privileged , vulnerable children in Bangkok is there? Of course this doesn't happen exclusively in Chiang Mai. I thought that would go without saying.

Oh I really don't plan to close this topic, for the other one I actually just let it go with the castration & fire ants posts. While I don't think these posts were very constructive and sometimes bordering overly violent and annoying, I think people have a right to express their outrage. I hope this new topic can remain a little more constructive and respectful, though I totally expect some emotional postings here, too. Just comes from being a seriously nasty issue.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

> Sorry no map!

> My old friend who pointed me in the right direction is no more.

Got deported back to Oz then did he?

(Sorry, bad joke )

Cheers,

Chanchao

[john b good]

> Sorry no map!

> My old friend who pointed me in the right direction is no more.

Got deported back to Oz then did he? 

(Sorry, bad joke )

Cheers,

Chanchao

Not really a bad joke. You were not to know were you.

The old friend that I was alluding to went to the "big brothel in the sky" a few years back.

I don't know about most of the locals (expats) but I don't need an alleged "pedo" to take me by the hand and show me where all the whore houses are / were.

And no! he wasn't an Australian either.

[lamphun]

No brothels ...

Saiyuree

Pink Payom

Can't remember the names of the rest, there's tons.

[stroll]

And getting back to Bangkok: it's not like theres a shortage of under-privileged , vulnerable children in Bangkok is there?  Of course this doesn't happen exclusively in Chiang Mai.  I thought that would go without saying.

Sure, point taken. I am merely saying I am not aware of it happening in BKK in any organized way. My question really is how come these activities are known to local and foreign authorities and continue, and what can one do to stop/prevent it. I am interested in particular in the answers of those who go as far as suggesting torture as punishment, how can one help stop prepubescents being abused by farangs, being so enraged I am sure you had some thoughts about this? I welcome any serious replies beyond the obvious 'report to the police' slant.

I could ask the same about Pattaya or other places, I live in Bangkok, and one of my neighbours (asingle mother) was arrested for 'renting' her 8 year old out to monks, believe it or not. I did have an argument with her about continually verbally abusing the lad, which resulted in me being shouted down and having to close my door in her face (I don't easily become violent). This was before I knew what she was up to. The owner of a local Thai karaoke was arrested with similar charges. All this was suppluing Thai clientele, I wouldn't even dare going to the police.

An Iraki who I don't know much about was interested in doing business with me, 2 days later the people who introduced him to me asked me not to deal with him, because it tanspired that he has a sideline of trading young Thai women from the Muslim community to his country by promise of marriage. He was not seen again in this area (probably still 'diving' in the nearby klong).

So I am not naive, and the more I get to know these stories, the more I feel I would really like to adapt a more aggressive stance towards these people.

Now the first hurdle is, that I haven't witnessed anything, and the police would laugh if I reported a mother shouting at her child.

So my question, is there a government agency or ngo I could report my concerns if I noticed suspicious activities. Following the Chiang Mai story, I gather that there was an influencial person instrumental to trigger an investigation, and have individual persons approached the embassy and so on, did you discuss suspicions within the expat community first or what do you do?

[marsbloke]

QUOTE (marsbloke @ Mon 2004-06-14, 04:21:02)

There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown. 

It saddens me that people can go through life with such blinkers on. Admittedly, some of the more blatant, Farang oriented brothels were temporarily closed but the vastly more numerous businesses catering to Thais of all classes and tastes were left untouched. You will find examples in most areas of the city if you look closely, but you will not be permitted to partake of their delights unless you have black hair and yellow skin. As a Farang, attempting to gain entry to some of these places can be extremely dangerous to your health.

And yes, the fronts catering to Farangs of unnatural, unpleasant tastes are still up and running behind their curtains and walls of secrecy.

I was in Chiang Mai numerous times over the last 10 years and noticed last year that the brothels on Sittiwong St. had been shut permanently and the buildings converted to other uses. Not just the usual temporary "crackdown." Those were Thai oriented brothels, the only ones I knew of, have never heard of "vastly more numerous" establishments, there were only 3 or 4 total. I have never heard of "farang oriented brothels" unless you're referring to Sayuri and such which are not brothels. Also I never saw anyone there who appeared to be underage and have never heard of brothels in Bkk.

[stroll]

I have personally heard of one brothel in Bangkok, I am sure there are more. And there were horror stories in the press some years ago, girls/women locked in the room, sometimes chained to the bed.

I haven't made any effort to find out, a very dangerous scene once your unfavorable views are known, I imaging.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I have personally heard of one brothel in Bangkok, I am sure there are more. And there were horror stories in the press some years ago, girls/women locked in the room, sometimes chained to the bed.

I haven't made any effort to find out, a very dangerous scene once your unfavorable views are known, I imaging.

If you are looking. you'll find knocking shops anywhere in the world.

[john b good]

> Sorry no map!

> My old friend who pointed me in the right direction is no more.

Got deported back to Oz then did he? 

(Sorry, bad joke )

Cheers,

Chanchao

Not really a bad joke. You were not to know were you.

The old friend that I was alluding to went to the "big brothel in the sky" a few years back.

I don't know about most of the locals (expats) but I don't need an alleged "pedo" to take me by the hand and show me where all the whore houses are / were.

And no! he wasn't an Australian either.

After having a second think "yes I think that your attempts" at coming up with a joke (in such poor and offensive taste) is more than questionable given your "super moderator" status.

But I guess that you have shown that you are at least "human"

nuff said

[chanchao]

> After having a second think "yes I think that your attempts" at

> coming up with a joke (in such poor and offensive taste) is more

> than questionable given your "super moderator" status.

Yes. I'd like to apologize for that, for the offensive joke especially as your friend already passed on. "is no more" should have been plenty of indication of that. If you like I can take that post and these follow ups out, but will leave them for now as it wouldn't be much of an apology if I just removed everything.

> But I guess that you have shown that you are at least "human"

Absolutely.

Again I'm sorry I offended you.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

> I have never heard of "farang oriented brothels"

Me neither. Though this is getting into semantics as well, some people would have considered the old Kamphaeng Din shops to be at least Farang-friendly. For me a 'Farang oriented brothel' would be something like Bunny Club. Most would just call that 'a lounge bar' though.

> unless you're referring to Sayuri and such which

> are not brothels.

I'd say they ARE brothels no matter what Thais call them. However I would not call them 'Farang oriented' at all when over 90% of the clientele is Thai.

> Also I never saw anyone there who appeared to be

> underage and have never heard of brothels in Bkk.

Ask any tuk tuk or taxi driver outside of the main tourist areas. (say the Sutthisarn/Inthamara area for example)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

Overall though, I think "brothels" in the strictest definition of the word may be on their way to be become VERY marginalized. (Even more so than is already the case) This because Thai law makes a big difference between places where sex takes place on the premise itself, and places where prostitutes are merely taken out. There's MUCH less punishment in the books for the latter.

So to counter the balance, what you may see more will be small pubs/bars/karaokes where prostitutes can be taken out to a cheapo shorttime hotel. Or even places where women cannot be taken out at all and anything that happens are just after-hours liaisons that really start to blur the line between 'prostitution' and 'getting a girlfriend/mistress who works in a restaurant'.

For an example, drive down Wiang Phing road in the evening.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Maejo Man]

> I have never heard of "farang oriented brothels"

Me neither.  Though this is getting into semantics as well, some people would have considered the old Kamphaeng Din shops to be at least Farang-friendly.  For me a 'Farang oriented brothel' would be something like Bunny Club.  Most would just call that 'a lounge bar' though.

> unless you're referring to Sayuri and such which

> are not brothels.

I'd say they ARE brothels no matter what Thais call them. However I would not call them 'Farang oriented' at all when over 90% of the clientele is Thai.

> Also I never saw anyone there who appeared to be

> underage and have never heard of brothels in Bkk.

Ask any tuk tuk or taxi driver outside of the main tourist areas. (say the Sutthisarn/Inthamara area for example)

Cheers,

Chanchao

Firstly Chanchao, all brothels in Thailand are "farang friendly" providing you speak Thai, and can pay the going rate.

Secondly to say that "unless you're referring to Sayuri and such which

are not brothels." Is loonacy of the first order. They are just a more polite way of parting the punter with his cash. The likes of Ping Payorm, Green Hills, Phucome Massage, and Sayuri are plain and simple brothels in the true sense of the word.

The other lower class brothels in Chiangmai are far too numerous to mention here, never the less exist in vast quantities, as they do in any other Thai city.

You can still get your jollies for 200 baht in many of them on the outskirts of Chiangmai, that is of course if you are trying to find a permanent solution to ongoing medical bills

Under age. sure still heaps around, and don't fool yourself, even on the "Head Waiter's" doorstep out in Sangkampaeng!! Under the patronage of the local "Sarawat Yai" as are the ones in Hang Dong.

If one of the posters thought they had been closed, he is under a severe misaprehension. They will never close THIS IS THAILAND! There will always be brothels and private clubs. All of the "Karaoke" clubs are glorified brothels that cater for the Japanese and upper crust Thais, and I've seen no mention here of the likes of the "Orivia Bar" and hundreds of others like it. Strewth, Chiangmai Land is full of them, as is Sri Donchai.

If you are really looking for under age (I'm not) try some of the border areas, Mae Sai, Arunyaprathet, Mae Sot. They all abound in wall to wall brothels.

To say that one has never noticed them in Bangkok (a previous post) Just let me say in closing.....Big cities tend to absorb slime better!

Maps gladly provided on request

Of course I'm joking......prostitution and brothels don't exist in Thailand, do they?

[chanchao]

> Secondly to say that "unless you're referring to Sayuri and such which

> are not brothels." Is loonacy of the first order.

Yes, that was kind of my point too.

> The likes of Ping Payorm, Green Hills, Phucome Massage

Green Hills has massage??? You mean the Chiang Mai Hills hotel right? I mean, not that I would know first hand, of course, but it says so on the sign outside that I happened to notice while on my way to, erm, that church on Huay Kaew.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Sao Jiang Mai]

A long time browser, but first time poster, I felt compelled today to add my tuppence to the discussions here. The first thread in this discussion challenges my intergrity as a reporter and I feel that I must clarify the poster on the matter.

The poster - Marsbars or something - posted the following (sorry I don't know how to use this system to add quotes yet:

In a closed topic, Lifelover wrote:

"I see far too much sloppy reporting like the following, which patently fails that distinction: <Pim Kemasingki, editor of Chiang Mai Citylife magazine, who has recently investigated the extent of child abuse in Chiang Mai, says the situation is serious and getting worse. "The police say every brothel they go to, they find under-age kids. There is a whole network of pedophiles in Chiang Mai, but it has gone a lot more underground in recent times," she says.>"

This is an example of why you can't believe what you read in the press. There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.

First of all can I please say that it was a direct quote (actually, Mark Baker, the writer of the article in The Age, did get one fact wrong, the exact quote I gave him was that the police captain interviewed believes that if the police raided every single brothel in Chiang Mai they would find underaged kids - the fact that they haven't is only due to lack of resouces, man power and priority.) from Police Captain Jeerawan Puttanurak, Chief Investigator for the Chang Peuk Centre for the Protection of Women and Children, one of only TWO police officers working directly on these cases in the north of Thailand. I believe I made it very clear to the reporter, and he made it clear to the readers that it was a quote from the police. This should immediately dispell any thoughts that what I write or tell a reporter is unbelievable.

If you read my full article on the matter; The Last Taboo: Facing up to the realities of child sexual abuse you will see that just about everything I wrote was either a direct quote or fact backed up by specialists in the feild. I had absolutely no need to make up any stories. On the contrary, I had to work very hard to desensationalise the story because the facts were so frightening and horrific.

You may also ask any Thai person if they think that Chiang Mai is rid of song (which means brothel). I don't go to these places, but even the obvious ones like Sayuri, etc. are still shamelessly opperating. Song are everywhere, it is very naiive to presume that a government's decree can possibly close them all down. Whether they have the name BROTHEL emblazoned on their front or come in the guise of a coffeeshop, a song is a song.

If you have any questions at all about my sources or the reliability of what I write, please contact me at any time at [email protected].

On a happier note, I do enjoy this forum, its most informative and keep up the good work!

[john b good]

> After having a second think "yes I think that your attempts" at

> coming up with a joke (in such poor and offensive taste) is more

> than questionable given your "super moderator" status.

Yes.  I'd like to apologize for that, for the offensive joke especially as your friend already passed on. "is no more" should have been plenty of indication of that.  If you like I can take that post and these follow ups out, but will leave them for now as it wouldn't be much of an apology if I just removed everything.

> But I guess that you have shown that you are at least "human"

Absolutely.

Again I'm sorry I offended you.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Chanchao.....

I am pretty thick (in the hide) and it takes a lot to offend me. So no real offence taken.

I was just putting the record straight really, that departed in this context didn't mean deported (and no, he "the deported one" didn't ever point me to any of these places)

I don't really think that I was / am aligned with /or seeking the same things / people / gender that he was tuned into, consequently his choices would not be of much interest to me.

The only other comment I might add is that whatever these places like to call themselves, which is that, if sex (copulation) is available for a fee it is a brothel.

Pure and simple.

And as Maejo Man has written there are masses of these places in the realm.

My guess is that when you add them all up (straight out, in you face brothels, massage joints, go-go bars, girlie bars, coffee shops, sing a songs, free lancers, students on the game, hi-so girls etc) that there is probably upwards of two million of the fair sex keeping the wolf from the door by selling the flange.

And if you work that out as a percentage of the fcukable / marketable age females (say from 15 - 35 years of age) it's works out to be a pretty healthy (perhaps not so healthy) percentage of the group. Could be as high in my estimation as at least 25%

Bit sad isn't it.

p.s. and please don't take the posts out, after all it is all part of the thread isn't it?

[thaihome]

And if you work that out as a percentage of the fcukable / marketable age females (say from 15 - 35 years of age) it's works out to be a pretty healthy (perhaps not so healthy) percentage of the group. Could be as high in my estimation as at least 25%

So you are saying that in your opinion 1 in every 4 females in Thailand between the age 15-35 is a prostitute of some sort?

I'm afraid you have a very skewed version of the country.

TH