Israel, UAE reach historic peace deal

[dexterm]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Disregarding your usual over the top rhetoric, could you put a more definitive figure on that "just a matter of time" bit? So far it's been decades. Would you consign the Palestinians to the same (and worsening) state of things for decades to come? 

10 years. Within the next two US administrations.

 

Times are changing. Social media and cell phones didn't exist 50 years ago.
Many diaspora Jews are more aware of the embarrassment and liability that Israel has become for them, and are openly critical of the apartheid regime that flies in the face of their democratic values. And that's not counting more progressive non Jewish elements in the Democratic Party. You don't have to pass an AIPAC interview to get elected nowadays.

Some are now calling for a one state democratic solution.

 

And maybe one or two of them treacherous aristocrats and dictators may be gone too.

[Baerboxer]

10 hours ago, dexterm said:

So unelected dictators agreed to recognize Israel's brutal illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and got nothing in return but a few pieces of silver for trade deals. A pity ordinary Emiratis don't have a say in the matter.

Then they had the gall to hide their treachery by claiming they were furthering the cause of the Palestinians rather than feathering their own corrupt nest.
Shameful.

 

I will be adding Emirates to my personal boycott list. Hope BDS do too.

 

Looks like Biden and Harris will be continuing the charade of supporting phony 30 year negotiations towards a two state solution while they turn a blind eye to Israel's expansion and apartheid.
Hopefully the voice of progressives in Congress will <deleted> their conscience.

 

In that the PA is now obsolete, all Palestinians need do is stay put and demand equal rights in a single state. 

 

How do you know what ordinary Emiratis think? Have you ever lived there? I have. 

 

The Crown Prince is well respected, and very liked. In my years there I would say less than 2% of the Emiratis I knew as colleagues and or friends were anti Israel like you.

 

Don't forget to boycott Etihad too. I'm sure your boycott will really worry them both!

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, dexterm said:

10 years. Within the next two US administrations.

 

Times are changing. Social media and cell phones didn't exist 50 years ago.
Many diaspora Jews are more aware of the embarrassment and liability that Israel has become for them, and are openly critical of the apartheid regime that flies in the face of their democratic values. And that's not counting more progressive non Jewish elements in the Democratic Party. You don't have to pass an AIPAC interview to get elected nowadays.

Some are now calling for a one state democratic solution.

 

And maybe one or two of them treacherous aristocrats and dictators may be gone too.

 

That's a bold claim, and of course not supported much by way of facts.

 

Changes in communication are a constant thing. The same was said about the telegraph, the phone, radio, tv etc. Some diaspora Jews have negative feelings toward Israel, but I kinda doubt most of either are on par with the sort of rhetoric and position you offer. The so-called "more progressive" (sneaky, sneaky) elements are yet to demonstrate wide traction or firm take on foreign policy. There was never a need to pass any AIPAC interview to be elected, that's just one of the tropes you drop in now and then.

 

All of this doesn't go much toward supporting your claim, or even explain how they directly relate to it.

 

 

[owl sees all]

30 minutes ago, dexterm said:

10 years. Within the next two US administrations.

 

Times are changing. Social media and cell phones didn't exist 50 years ago.
Many diaspora Jews are more aware of the embarrassment and liability that Israel has become for them, and are openly critical of the apartheid regime that flies in the face of their democratic values. And that's not counting more progressive non Jewish elements in the Democratic Party. You don't have to pass an AIPAC interview to get elected nowadays.

Some are now calling for a one state democratic solution.

 

And maybe one or two of them treacherous aristocrats and dictators may be gone too.

A couple of points in this post need addressing. Firstly 10 years is IMO is too pessimistic; I think under six.

 

The most important thing for the US is the Petro Dollar. When that collapses all hell will break loose. After all, the invasions of Iraq, Libya and Syria were because those countries began dealing in a currency other than the US Dollar. Without the US's support, Israel will crumble, and the Palestinians will finally be able to return home in peace.

 

Iran will become the major power in the area and the latest deal between Israel and UAE will be just a memory.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by owl sees all

[dexterm]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That's a bold claim, and of course not supported much by way of facts.

 

Changes in communication are a constant thing. The same was said about the telegraph, the phone, radio, tv etc. Some diaspora Jews have negative feelings toward Israel, but I kinda doubt most of either are on par with the sort of rhetoric and position you offer. The so-called "more progressive" (sneaky, sneaky) elements are yet to demonstrate wide traction or firm take on foreign policy. There was never a need to pass any AIPAC interview to be elected, that's just one of the tropes you drop in now and then.

 

All of this doesn't go much toward supporting your claim, or even explain how they directly relate to it.

 

 

>>but I kinda doubt most of either are on par with the sort of rhetoric and position you offer.

I suggest you read the work of the influential American editor of  Jewish Currents, Peter Beinart, who also writes for The Atlantic, and is a political commentator for CNN.

I No Longer Believe in a Jewish State
For decades I argued for separation between Israelis and Palestinians. Now, I can imagine a Jewish home in an equal state.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/opinion/israel-annexation-two-state-solution.html

 

You are on the wrong side of history, Morch, in your continued defense of the racist supremacist Zionist state.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

A couple of points in this post need addressing. Firstly 10 years is IMO is too pessimistic; I think under six.

 

The most important thing for the US is the Petro Dollar. When that collapses all hell will break loose. After all, the invasions of Iraq, Libya and Syria were because those countries began dealing in a currency other than the US Dollar. Without the US's support, Israel will crumble, and the Palestinians will finally be able to return home in peace.

 

Iran will become the major power in the area and the latest deal between Israel and UAE will be just a memory.

 

 

 

There's just this little issue of the Petro Dollar's "collapse". Wish I had one Petro Dollar for each time I read the sky is falling.

[Morch]

Just now, dexterm said:

>>but I kinda doubt most of either are on par with the sort of rhetoric and position you offer.

I suggest you read the work of the influential American editor of  Jewish Currents, Peter Beinart, who also writes for The Atlantic, and is a political commentator for CNN.

I No Longer Believe in a Jewish State
For decades I argued for separation between Israelis and Palestinians. Now, I can imagine a Jewish home in an equal state.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/opinion/israel-annexation-two-state-solution.html

 

You are on the wrong side of history, Morch, in your continued defense of the racist supremacist Zionist state.

 

And you're no closer to making your point stick. Citing an opinion column doesn't make an argument. Your pronouncements on history are dully noted, as is the usual over the top rhetoric.

[dexterm]

28 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

How do you know what ordinary Emiratis think? Have you ever lived there? I have. 

 

The Crown Prince is well respected, and very liked. In my years there I would say less than 2% of the Emiratis I knew as colleagues and or friends were anti Israel like you.

 

Don't forget to boycott Etihad too. I'm sure your boycott will really worry them both!

Thanks ..I'll certainly be boycotting Etihad too, along with Gulf Air and Oman.

 

Anecdotal evidence is hardly proof of Emiratis' undying love for Israel. Would be nice to know how well respected the Crown Prince really is...err...a democratic election might help. 
Not much different from Israel where 4.5 million Palestinians have their lives controlled by a racist elite but have no say in the process. 

 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

Thanks ..I'll certainly be boycotting Etihad too, along with Gulf Air and Oman.

 

Anecdotal evidence is hardly proof of Emiratis' undying love for Israel. Would be nice to know how well respected the Crown Prince really is...err...a democratic election might help. 
Not much different from Israel where 4.5 million Palestinians have their lives controlled by a racist elite but have no say in the process. 

 

 

Do you also pretend to boycott all other airlines flying to Israel or based in/belonging to countries which have relations with Israel? Or is this reserved only for Middle East carriers?

 

Sure, anecdotal evidence is hardly proof. It can't begin to match them generalizations and wide brush claims regarding views of whole segments of population, societies and nations appearing in your posts.

 

And yes, maybe it would be nice to have democratic elections in the UAE. Funny how that doesn't bother you much with respect to the Palestinians - other than in relation to Israel, of course. Are Palestinians leaders elected ones? Are Palestinians consulted by their leadership regarding their fate?

 

 

[Opl]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Thanks ..I'll certainly be boycotting Etihad too, along with Gulf Air and Oman.

 

Anecdotal evidence is hardly proof of Emiratis' undying love for Israel. Would be nice to know how well respected the Crown Prince really is...err...a democratic election might help. 
Not much different from Israel where 4.5 million Palestinians have their lives controlled by a racist elite but have no say in the process. 

 

Would you consider boycotting Qatar Airways? 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Opl

[pegman]

20 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

These types of alliances in the Middle East while bringing some hope to the region,  historically do not last very long.  

 

Let's hope this one is different...and the UAE leaders are not assassinated to destabilize these countries once again...

The day after Trump is gone so is this.

[Morch]

9 hours ago, pegman said:

The day after Trump is gone so is this.

 

How's that? Were peace agreements between Israel and Arab countries "gone" after USA presidents of the day stepped down?

 

IMO, once relations are officially on, it's less likely they'll be cut off. Establishing (or cutting) relations is not the same as fine tuning their level/intensity/warmth. Things tend to be accommodated within the existing framework, rather than constant making and remaking of such. 

 

[puipuitom]

21 hours ago, dexterm said:

But the Palestinians are still there ain't they, despite all Israel's ethnic cleansing and discriminatory apartheid and immigration laws. And they outnumber Israeli Jews from the Jordan to the Med. It's just a matter of time before the racist Zionist project fails. A minority has never managed to successfully colonize and rule over a majority indigenous population.

Teh Israeli's are in fact at war with teh Palestinians ( especially Hamas). 'Kill the jews" and "push them into the sea", but never... "how can we peacefully live together in the land of Abraham, we both claim as our origin father". 

[Morch]

19 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Teh Israeli's are in fact at war with teh Palestinians ( especially Hamas). 'Kill the jews" and "push them into the sea", but never... "how can we peacefully live together in the land of Abraham, we both claim as our origin father". 

 

Well, it's not like there's a whole lot of goodwill on the "peacefully live together" thing from either side.

[sanuk711]

On 8/14/2020 at 10:30 AM, dexterm said:

I will be adding Emirates to my personal boycott list.

 

Gosh maybe their change their minds when they read that..............................