U.S. Postal Service watchdog to probe service woes as worries rise about mail ballots

[bendejo]

This fool doesn't realize that even his 35% rely on the post office for lots of things, and he's likely to p__s off enough of them to not vote at all.

It's like spreading poison around your house to get rid of the rats and your kid dies from it.

 

He said this will be the most corrupt, rigged election in US history, and he's putting his full effort into keeping that promise.  If you refuse to see this, even when he gives explicit details as to how he's doing it, well . . .

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by bendejo

[Mac98]

Beware Trump claiming 'widespread mail-in vote fraud' and ordering the seizure of the piled up ballots, thereby throwing into question the legitimacy of the election, no matter who leads in the count. He has already said the election should be delayed until COVID-19 has been brought under control and in-person balloting can be carried out. This would obviously be years down the road.

[4reaL]

1 hour ago, Mac98 said:

Beware Trump claiming 'widespread mail-in vote fraud' and ordering the seizure of the piled up ballots, thereby throwing into question the legitimacy of the election, no matter who leads in the count. He has already said the election should be delayed until COVID-19 has been brought under control and in-person balloting can be carried out. This would obviously be years down the road.

 

Attached image of post boxes being removed from city streets.

This along with the lackey Post Master General appointed by Trump will prove a very precarious situation.

 

 

 

 

[Tug]

4 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

The dems have the free everything buffet. Both sides do the same thing. Trump is just more up front about it. Also more honest as you will actually get the $3,400 as opposed to these fairytale schemes the dems have that will never happen. We are straying off topic so I am going to end with that.

Personally I’m not looking foe a 3400$ bribe for my vote I’m looking for #1 a free and fair election for all Americans no matter their politics #2help for my fellow Americans beeing hurt by trumps epic mismanagement of the covid crisis #3 for him to stop wrecking the post office #4 my family and I don’t need a handout 

[Cryingdick]

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Personally I’m not looking foe a 3400$ bribe for my vote I’m looking for #1 a free and fair election for all Americans no matter their politics #2help for my fellow Americans beeing hurt by trumps epic mismanagement of the covid crisis #3 for him to stop wrecking the post office #4 my family and I don’t need a handout 

Well it is good you have that level of integrity. However families with disrupted incomes don't have that luxury. The ones that you know, didn't get that $600 this week because Pelosi and crew couldn't or were unwilling to make a deal? 

 

Tone deaf much? 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Cryingdick

[Tug]

20 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Well it is good you have that level of integrity. However families with disrupted incomes don't have that luxury. The ones that you know, didn't get that $600 this week because Pelosi and crew couldn't or were unwilling to make a deal? 

 

Tone deaf much? 

 

 

Ahhhh the dems wanted 3 dropped it to 2 the republicans walked to go on summer vacation reality much?but I thought this was about trump trying to rigg the election by wreaking the postal service 

[Cryingdick]

4 minutes ago, Tug said:

Ahhhh the dems wanted 3 dropped it to 2 the republicans walked to go on summer vacation reality much?but I thought this was about trump trying to rigg the election by wreaking the postal service 

Well if you really want a contested election you found a self fulfilling prophecy. Only the dems can grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. Aren't the polls so overwhelmingly convincing we can run the election as it has always been? 

 

The uncertainty is strong. 

 

As far as I can tell there is no precedent which requires a change less than three months before the election. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Cryingdick

[Berkshire]

32 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Well it is good you have that level of integrity. However families with disrupted incomes don't have that luxury. The ones that you know, didn't get that $600 this week because Pelosi and crew couldn't or were unwilling to make a deal?

 

The American public knows it is Trump and McConnell holding up COVID relief.  No amount of right wing lies is going to help you.

[Cryingdick]

30 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The American public knows it is Trump and McConnell holding up COVID relief.  No amount of right wing lies is going to help you.

No amount of lies but cash is a different story. Don't hate on me because I am simply explaining why I think the dems are outflanked and how it happened. 

 

 

"No amount of right wing lies is going to help you."

 

I am not Trump so you should really say "him"

Edited August 16, 2020 by Cryingdick

[TopDeadSenter]

35 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Well if you really want a contested election you found a self fulfilling prophecy. Only the dems can grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. Aren't the polls so overwhelmingly convincing we can run the election as it has always been? 

 

The uncertainty is strong. 

 

As far as I can tell there is no precedent which requires a change less than three months before the election. 

IMO the only reason they are trying to make all these crazy changes at the last minute is to wreck the elections integrity. A desperate last ditch strategy because they know full well they will lose, and want some sort of excuse. I still think Trump will win easily, but we will have another 4 years of the left carping on about Trump causing election fraud bla bla bla(even though it is Trump being very vocal about the dangers of things like mail in voting with no stamp or post code ) . Until there are checks and balances ensuring the legitimacy of an election, I would advise Trump to cancel the election. Do it properly and fairly, or don't bother to do it at all.

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

IMO the only reason they are trying to make all these crazy changes at the last minute is to wreck the elections integrity. A desperate last ditch strategy because they know full well they will lose, and want some sort of excuse. I still think Trump will win easily, but we will have another 4 years of the left carping on about Trump causing election fraud bla bla bla(even though it is Trump being very vocal about the dangers of things like mail in voting with no stamp or post code ) . Until there are checks and balances ensuring the legitimacy of an election, I would advise Trump to cancel the election. Do it properly and fairly, or don't bother to do it at all.

If nobody is elected Pelosi would become POTUS. I don't think you want that.

[Sujo]

21 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

If nobody is elected Pelosi would become POTUS. I don't think you want that.

Better than trump and he will only have himself to blame.

 

Doing all he can to restrict voting is not a democratic trait. He should be finding ways to increase voting.

[TopDeadSenter]

17 minutes ago, Sujo said:

 

 

Doing all he can to restrict voting is not a democratic trait. He should be finding ways to increase voting.

Doing all he can to restrict fraudulent voting is a democratic trait. He should be finding ways to increase legitimate voting.

 

 Reads better when accurately phrased.

[mtls2005]

A lot of people rely on the USPS to deliver checks, meds. Veterans, like a hundred thousand, receive meds via the USPS from the VA. Rural folks would not be served well by the "market" (privatization).

 

Believe they recently delivered ~ 150 million letters re: EIP, along with a few million checks.

 

trump has been tumescent on the PO for ages.

 

Republican voters, who are generally older, would seem to favor voting by mail? And would be disenfranchised more.

 

The poll workers at my previous polling station (in an old school, which now serves as day care and elderly housing), were almost all elderly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by mtls2005

[Sujo]

12 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Doing all he can to restrict fraudulent voting is a democratic trait. He should be finding ways to increase legitimate voting.

 

 Reads better when accurately phrased.

And yet trumps own investigators found nothing.

 

There is no evidence that its an issue.

 

Do tell, what is trump doing to increase legitimate voting.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Sujo

[Tug]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

IMO the only reason they are trying to make all these crazy changes at the last minute is to wreck the elections integrity. A desperate last ditch strategy because they know full well they will lose, and want some sort of excuse. I still think Trump will win easily, but we will have another 4 years of the left carping on about Trump causing election fraud bla bla bla(even though it is Trump being very vocal about the dangers of things like mail in voting with no stamp or post code ) . Until there are checks and balances ensuring the legitimacy of an election, I would advise Trump to cancel the election. Do it properly and fairly, or don't bother to do it at all.

Ahhh nooo it’s that pesky covid virus you know the one that’s killed over 165,000 Americans in 6 months much safer to vote from home but trump supporters know this allready this fiasco at best is an attempt to suppress the vote no more no less he’s trying to force people to risk their health to get rid of him

[Opl]

37 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Doing all he can to restrict fraudulent voting is a democratic trait. He should be finding ways to increase legitimate voting.

 

 Reads better when accurately phrased.

Ballot boxes are safely guarded when there are concerns about the results’ legitimacy because of the potential for manipulation (more ballots added)  now it appears that keeping mail boxes as empty as possible is the alternative trick : when you can't get it this way, try the opposite solution.

( it's probably not accurately phrased, but I'm sure you grasp the idea; can't add? then subtract)

Which confirms that Trump believes he won't be re-elected if the turnout is high.  

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Opl

[Cryingdick]

29 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

A lot of people rely on the USPS to deliver checks, meds. Veterans, like a hundred thousand, receive meds via the USPS from the VA. Rural folks would not be served well by the "market" (privatization).

 

Believe they recently delivered ~ 150 million letters re: EIP, along with a few million checks.

 

trump has been tumescent on the PO for ages.

 

Republican voters, who are generally older, would seem to favor voting by mail? And would be disenfranchised more.

 

The poll workers at my previous polling station (in an old school, which now serves as day care and elderly housing), were almost all elderly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Cryingdick
wrong quote

[johnnybangkok]

12 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

It is obvious that either side supports their point of view only because they think it gives them the advantage. It's that simple. It's win no matter how these days. 

 

You can already register for an absentee ballot and not show up if you are worried about covid. The dems will say Trump won't honor the results but if Trump wins they are going to pull the same maneuver themselves. So whoever loses is going to become very interested suddenly in counting every single ballot.

 

I don't think this will go smoothly and if you want Trump out of office and are sure your side is winning then doing it the old fashioned way is your best means to this end. If you want a contested election that has no winner election night mail in voting is going to produce that result whatever side declares it has won.

 

In the future for 2024 I hope elections can be held using smart phones. Before the crying starts about under privileged being put out by this you could still do it in person.

 

The idea would be it is harder to fake a physical phone. If you are opposed to voter ID (which I am certainly for) it could be connected by IMEI or something like that but not your name. However every phone would have a unique  anonymous, identifier for voting. 

'

You could change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes in the state you are in. No more crying about debates and all of that. You don't like Biden after the debate just change the vote in your app. Your vote will be recorded instantaneously the second the poll closes.

 

This would solve most the nonsense. If you really want Trump out be careful what you wish for as this could really backfire.

One of your better, more balanced posts which I actually found myself agreeing to (especially the part about better use of technology) but there is one very important part of 'doing it the old fashioned way' which you seem to be missing; a nationwide pandemic.

Voting in person is obiously going to mean people in close proximity and of course with all the 'patriots' refusing to wear masks, you are just inviting a second wave. Also, many of the volunteers for the voting stations are usually elderly (approx 60%) and already there is talk that many will not volunteer this year https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/06/older-people-account-for-large-shares-of-poll-workers-and-voters-in-u-s-general-elections.

All in all it's just a recipe for disaster, hence why there is so much focus on the postal service and their ability to handle the projected millions more who will vote by mail.  

[johnnybangkok]

10 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Last time I heard he was willing to approve it. He is using it as leverage to make a deal. it's not a bad strategy as if they don't deal they forfeit their chance of having mail in ballots. 

 

This is simply political gamesmanship on both sides. Nancy got blindsided.

Ahhh the old 'Trump is just doing this because he's such a great negotiator and wants better leverage' excuse.

You always seem to revert to this when excusing Trump but have you ever considered he just isn't that clever and actually doesn't want mail-in voting to work as it's going to massively detriment his chances for another 4 years in power?

Also, if he is only looking to do this for 'leverage' it then follows that he will at some stage agree with funding the postal service (obviously for much less money) but in the meantime don't you think the damage to his standing is worth the saving of a few billion? I mean the optics right now are just terrible. He keeps crying fraud when it's been proven time and time again there is minimal fraud and trying to get everyone to vote in person is likely to literally kill people. Especially older voters.

I think the much more likely explanation is the obvious one (I know, you love to read more into everything) and that he doesn't want nationwide and efficient mail-in voting as he knows he will DEFINITELY lose if that happens.   

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

IMO the only reason they are trying to make all these crazy changes at the last minute is to wreck the elections integrity. A desperate last ditch strategy because they know full well they will lose, and want some sort of excuse. I still think Trump will win easily, but we will have another 4 years of the left carping on about Trump causing election fraud bla bla bla(even though it is Trump being very vocal about the dangers of things like mail in voting with no stamp or post code ) . Until there are checks and balances ensuring the legitimacy of an election, I would advise Trump to cancel the election. Do it properly and fairly, or don't bother to do it at all.

Then truth is literally the reverse of what you are saying here (not the first time you've got it so wrong).

It's Trump who is trying to stymie the mail-in voting as he knows a high turnout does not bode well for him and every single poll out there says he is going to lose, unless of course there is low voter turnout.

Also, there are already checks and balances in place for ensuring the legitimacy of the election (this isn't their first rodeo after all) and last but not least, Trump cannot cancel the election but as has been pointed out to you, if he does Pelosi gets the job.

So yeah, literally the exact reverse of what you are saying.

[Sujo]

Getting more people voting should never be used as a negotiation.

 

Trump refusing to fund usps then complaining the votes will take too long to count.

 

Of course he has zero evidence there are any issues with mail ins, he even uses it.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-could-months-years-225833886.html

[ChouDoufu]

they can repair the damage.  recall congress early, table and vote on a bill to fully fund the post office thru the elections.  separate the post office funding from stimulus/benefits legislation into a stand-alone bill.

 

A Democratic congressional aide confirmed a Politico report that Pelosi could call back the U.S. House later this month, well ahead of the scheduled resumption of votes in mid-September.

...

This week, Representative Carolyn Maloney, the Democratic chair of a House panel that oversees the Postal Service, introduced legislation to prohibit the service from implementing any changes to the operations or level of service it had in place in January 2020, until the COVID-19 pandemic has ended.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-postmaster/pelosi-considering-recalling-congress-over-post-office-woes-idUSKCN25B10V

[mtls2005]

"Each day the Postal Service processes and delivers 181.9 million pieces of First-Class Mail."

 

Still having a hard time understanding why they can't process and deliver what, 80-ish million ballots in a month or so? Most mail-ins will probably come from within a small geographic location.

 

They handle Christmas Cards, Mother's/Father's Day cards, JUNK MAIL, without a problem.

 

All that said, there's obviously more to this story as people have been complaining about mail delivery for a few months. Some people are going without required medicines.

 

Every state is different, but many do allow a third party to deliver a ballot. This is obviously necessary.

 

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-10-who-can-collect-and-return-an-absentee-ballot-other-than-the-voter.aspx

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

All that said, there's obviously more to this story as people have been complaining about mail delivery for a few months. Some people are going without required medicines.

 

 

Trump's newly appointed postmaster recently instituted a series of policy changes that limited employee overtime and the operating hours of their sorting machines... supposedly in an attempt to curtail costs... Thus, mail has been backing up, carriers are having to do more by hand, and not able to make deliveries if they run beyond their scheduled work time....  In short, he's broken the functionality of their system right in the run-up to the election.

 

Quote

Democrats have asked for $25 billion in emergency funding to boost the USPS’s capabilities, but President Trump has rebuffed them, saying Thursday he was opposed to USPS funding because it would help universal mail-in voting this fall.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/512112-usps-inspector-general-reviewing-dejoys-policy-changes

 

Quote

 

Managers have told postal workers that the post office is about to embark on a long-overdue operational pivot. It means, among other things, that late arriving mail will now be left behind by carriers and delivered the next day and that overtime will be eliminated.

 

 

Quote

 

Late or extra trips to deliver mail, the memo states “are no longer authorized or accepted.” It also directs mail carriers to begin and complete their routes on time.

 

The memo says that USPS employees may see “mail left behind or mail on the workroom floor” or in processing and distribution centers — a change “that may be difficult for some employees.”

 

“Any mail left behind must be properly reported, and employees should ensure this action is taken with integrity and accuracy,” the memo states. Should this happen, the memo says USPS will “address root causes” of temporary mail delays and “adjust the very next day.”

 

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/management/2020/07/usps-warns-staff-of-temporary-mail-delays-as-it-cuts-soaring-delivery-costs/

Edited August 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

IMO the only reason they are trying to make all these crazy changes at the last minute is to wreck the elections integrity. A desperate last ditch strategy because they know full well they will lose, and want some sort of excuse. I still think Trump will win easily, but we will have another 4 years of the left carping on about Trump causing election fraud bla bla bla(even though it is Trump being very vocal about the dangers of things like mail in voting with no stamp or post code ) . Until there are checks and balances ensuring the legitimacy of an election, I would advise Trump to cancel the election. Do it properly and fairly, or don't bother to do it at all.

Ok, I can understand the appeal of cancelling the election and letting Pelosi become President, but it doesn't work that way.

 

I assume you aren't American.  If you were you'd know that Trump can't cancel the election.  If he could and did, according to the 20th Amendment of the US Constitution Trump would cease to be President and Pence cease to be Vice President at noon on January 20, 2021.  Only a general election which re-elects one or both will change that.

Edited August 16, 2020 by heybruce

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

One of your better, more balanced posts which I actually found myself agreeing to (especially the part about better use of technology)

 

There was already evidence that Russian interests have hacked into, and/or attempted to hack into state elections systems....  So don't go putting all your voting eggs into the technology basket just yet....  unless you want Putin or some other mal actor picking future US presidents (kinda like he already did in 2016 via Fakebook, Twitter, etc....)

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[simple1]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Trump's newly appointed postmaster recently instituted a series of policy changes that limited employee overtime and the operating hours of their sorting machines... supposedly in an attempt to curtail costs... Thus, mail has been backing up, carriers are having to do more by hand, and not able to make deliveries if they run beyond their scheduled work time....  In short, he's broken the functionality of their system right in the run-up to the election.

Postal sorting machines have also been removed from locations.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/postal-service-sorting-machines/index.html

 

The actions are not about efficiency and cost savings, it is evidently a conspiracy to disenfranchise voters. For those who understand the justice system in the US, surely there are legal means to stop the interference by trump and his political appointee. Have the judicial and political processes for the checks and balances system been so corrupted by trump it is now a real challenge to protect the US from "tyranny of government".

Edited August 16, 2020 by simple1

[jcsmith]

4 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Well if you really want a contested election you found a self fulfilling prophecy. Only the dems can grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. Aren't the polls so overwhelmingly convincing we can run the election as it has always been? 

Like the time we're in right now is how it has always been... The U.S. has averaged 1273 deaths per day from Covid in the past five days and about 55k new cases per day despite testing less over that time. Schools are getting ready to start back up in a lot of places, businesses are attempting to open. This is going to be happening during the election. Are we really to expect people to risk the lives of themselves and their families to go out and vote? And if they do, with the social distancing guidelines in place you run the risk of what happened recently in local elections of lines running long, voting booths closing and people not being able to cast their vote. 

You said in another post that both sides are volleying for what gives them an advantage. Sure for political parties they will try to do that. But screw the political parties. America is a democracy. The bottom line is every person's vote should count. What Trump is attempting to do is cheating... and might I remind you it is the third time in two elections that he has attempted to cheat. You can try to say oh he was just doing opposition research with Hillary and didn't know any better, all the while ignoring the cover up and the fact that he was warned by the FBI that this was not okay. You can say the Ukraine stuff was no big deal, and it didn't rise to an impeachable offense. But now you have him basically admitting on national TV that he is trying to hurt mail in voting. You have him refusing to promise to accept the results of an election for the second election in a row. You have him making up lies about voter fraud... again. 

Anyone who had paid attention to his career knows that Donald Trump is a liar, and a cheat. He inherited a massive amount of money from his father, and lied about it. He then drove one business after the next into the ground, and the only way he has stayed afloat over the years is by cheating people who worked for him and driving them out of business by refusing to pay his bills and tying them up in court. Of course he's going to cheat. He's a cheater and a conman. That's who he is. Let's not pretend it is anything other than it is. He's a snake being a snake. But the GOP is apparently fine with looking the other way as he does so. And that is a major problem. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, simple1 said:

Has the judicial and political processes for the checks and balances system been so corrupted by trump that the Rule of Law in the USA is currently no longer workable in a timely manner to protect the election? 

 

I'd say any reasonable person, at this point, would have to think and consider seriously before trying to answer that question... In the past, I'd say the answer would have been pretty clear cut. But Trump and Co. have seriously eroded any notion of checks and balances, and rule of law, with the help of the toadying Republican majority in the U.S. Senate.