Tis a La Ninya year but we are doing OK for rain.

[Grumpy John]

Had better rainfall in years gone by but we are doing OK this year.  We ended up not planting rice again this year but plenty of other did.  Was a late start to the rains and some early planters had to replant but in the main the local rice crop is doing well.

 

As a side not I may have mentioned the drawn out repair of the bridge on rural road 4026.  Almost finished!  If they get the new bitumen laid before the end of the next week it will have taken just 7 months...  

 

Taking their time seems to be the norm.  Over at Wang Yang, about 15km away, the bridge works there are being finished off.   ????

[Grumpy John]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

You might be having ok rain but what i read so far is that its even worse then 2019 this year. Many dams are still far from what they normally are water wise.

 

I do hope for more water for the farmers, but if there is not enough I hope they do give "normal" people water first (meaning water for consumption not farming).

Your probably thinking of water supplied by the big dams.  Our village water is 1/2 rai dam next to the wat and another up the hill on the Southside.  There is a village bore but no connection to any of the major dams. At our house we have 4 tanks and 4 ongs which hold around 30 thousand litres and one dam at the #1 orchard which is now 50% bigger so we can water the trees 5 times during the dry season. 

[cmarshall]

If this is indeed a La Nina year then rainfall in Thailand is likely to increase, not decrease.  So far, the region is on "La Nina watch" meaning La Nina conditions have not yet developed.

[Grumpy John]

You probably right.  The flooding in China at the mo is part of it though. "Asia[edit]

During La Niña years, the formation of tropical cyclones, along with the subtropical ridge position, shifts westward across the western Pacific Ocean, which increases the landfall threat in China.^[25] In March 2008, La Niña caused a drop in sea surface temperatures over Southeast Asia by 2 °C (3.6 °F). It also caused heavy rains over Malaysia, the Philippines, and Indonesia.^[26]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Niña^"

[IsaanAussie]

Our ponds are still dry. Rice is alive but not thriving. Looks like our village is again located under a hole in the clouds. Ten kilometres to the south has had some local flooding and ponds are filling. 

Last year we suffered from minor outbreak of rice blast but no noticeable fall army worm. 

Keeping my fingers crossed. 

[khwaibah]

We must be getting all the rain. Both our ponds are coming back up nicely as there is no rain or water shortage in my area. We have been getting rain every night for two weeks. Rice is doing nicely and a certain produce farm is going nuts in TOPS.????

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, robblok said:

Governments should always first give water to normal households and then to farmers and factories. That is how things should be done.

Farmers live in houses and run households too. I fail to see your point. In fact many villages, such as my own, do not have "government supplied" water available and must dig their own well or bore. Aren't they at a disadvantage then?

OK, so take out the household supply needs.

Crop needs are regulated. In irrigated areas, the volume of water available can be, and is in fact regulated. In rain fed only areas, no rain, no water.

Since you are so sure of what should be done, can I ask you to explain how that might be done?

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, Grumpy John said:

If the majority of the 1000 people decided the farmers don't get any water the 1000 will need to have a well stocked cupboard!  Without food being produced you have to rely on stock on hand.  How many people do you know with 12 months supply of food?  Even my wife and I only have 2 months supply of most things.  I think your 1000 people need to think carefully about the future direction they may take. 

Hey GJ,

There is an easy way for urban people to measure the increased cost of food and availability right now. Do the weekly shop as you do and total the bills. Next week repeat your purchases at Villa supermarket and buy only imported goods. 

 

[IsaanAussie]

This is going nowhere. Your generalisations are apparently not backed up with first hand knowledge.

Apart from central Thailand, most farms produce a single rice crop per year. Ours relies completely on rain fall as do many. Farms such as ours have zero effect on your water availability. In fact in better times the runoff might well have ended up in a river.

Extend your argument to include livestock farmers if you like, they use some serious water per head. But again be careful with the difference between "quoted facts" and reality. Our pig farm used 1,500 litres of water per day for drinking and wash out for 100 pigs. That water was from the bore and all the wash water (most) went through a septic treatment and was returned to the ground.

Perhaps look at the impact of the 6000 Chinese dams in Tibet that restrict the flow into 6 major rivers in Asia. 

 

 

 

[billd766]

We live in rural Khampaeng Phet and for 6 or 7 months of the year we rely on the local government water supply. The other 5 or 6 months we rely on the water tankers who are usually on the road 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

 

The water measured below com from the Thai Met office 65 km away in Muang KPP.

 

The first dates below are from 01 January to 15 August every year and the second figures are for the year.

 

2017 1,328 mm              1,863.9 mm

2018 701.1 mm               1,135.3 mm

2019 309.9 mm             802.1 mm

2020 288.8 mm to 15 August

 

It goes lower each year and I log the weather figures from the Thai Met Office for KPP. The Bhumibol dam has received only 4,166 mm of rain since 01 January. The Bhumibol dam is at 31% of full capacity at 07.00 this morning.

 

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

 

So while some parts of Thailand are doing OK for water other parts are not.

 

 

 

[CGW]

42 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

This is going nowhere. Your generalisations are apparently not backed up with first hand knowledge.

Indeed, most of the dams were set up to prevent flooding and primarily for irrigation for the land as it is so infertile and dry without water, poor long term planning has increased the cities needs for water. Rice is a terrible crop as far as water needs go, but nothing else will grow on the land and historically there has been an abundance of water in the wet season, this year not so!

I very much doubt the city dwellers have any idea how well constructed and maintained the majority of the smaller reservoirs and irrigation channels are, the peasants shouldn't expect to be able to use this water, it's for the cities? 

So in the future those in the cities are going to demand that they are supplied water that was meant for agriculture? - be interesting ???? 

[ubonjoe]

Several offtopic posts meant to deflect the topic and the expected replies to them have been removed.

[Grumpy John]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

We live in rural Khampaeng Phet and for 6 or 7 months of the year we rely on the local government water supply. The other 5 or 6 months we rely on the water tankers who are usually on the road 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

 

The water measured below com from the Thai Met office 65 km away in Muang KPP.

 

The first dates below are from 01 January to 15 August every year and the second figures are for the year.

 

2017 1,328 mm              1,863.9 mm

2018 701.1 mm               1,135.3 mm

2019 309.9 mm             802.1 mm

2020 288.8 mm to 15 August

 

It goes lower each year and I log the weather figures from the Thai Met Office for KPP. The Bhumibol dam has received only 4,166 mm of rain since 01 January. The Bhumibol dam is at 31% of full capacity at 07.00 this morning.

 

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

 

So while some parts of Thailand are doing OK for water other parts are not.

 

 

 

I Watch the weather radar quite a bit and there seems to be some good rain weather blowing into PhiChit province from your way.  But that doesn't mean it gets to here!  Our situation is most of the rain for our area comes from the South East.  But going back 7 years we had a storm and I will swear the rain came from all directions.  Last year to much rain caused flooding.  I posted pixs on TVF last year.  About 6 inch in the shed and the house being slightly higher about 1 inch on the kitchen floor.  Mar said in the 55 years living here she never seen such a flood!  But water management is only a secondary issue around here.  Instead of taking advantage of the run off for family rice paddies down lower by building a dam in an unused gully it just goes straight into the klong! ????

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

I Watch the weather radar quite a bit and there seems to be some good rain weather blowing into PhiChit province from your way.  But that doesn't mean it gets to here!  Our situation is most of the rain for our area comes from the South East.  But going back 7 years we had a storm and I will swear the rain came from all directions.  Last year to much rain caused flooding.  I posted pixs on TVF last year.  About 6 inch in the shed and the house being slightly higher about 1 inch on the kitchen floor.  Mar said in the 55 years living here she never seen such a flood!  But water management is only a secondary issue around here.  Instead of taking advantage of the run off for family rice paddies down lower by building a dam in an unused gully it just goes straight into the klong! ????

Our main water supply comes from the rainfed Mae Wong national park and flows into a small reservoir where it gets filtered and pumped into the system. When that runs out they use the big borehole until it runs out then we are back to the water tankers.

 

Quite a few years ago there was a plan to build a small dam about 1 km up the road but it would mea thar quite a few people would lose their land though compensation would be paid. A local campaign was held and the dam was not built. Roll forward to last year and nw they want the dam built, especially through the last drought years. That was the good news. The bad news is that it will be at least 5 years before it is even started.\

 

It will be about 900 metres wide at the narrowest point and about 25 metres high. It will trake years to fill and, at 76 years old, I doubt that I will see its completion never mind when it is full.

[IsaanAussie]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

A local campaign was held and the dam was not built. Roll forward to last year and now they want the dam built, especially through the last drought years.

I first came here to the village about 18 years ago. Behind the village was a large swampy area which almost flooded in the wet, it has been cleaned out to form the current reservoir and a system of klongs to handle overflow. The dam is low but still holds a lot of water but the klongs clear any excess so that the "speed" of the water is much increased and the ground water recharge is limited. The dam is clay lined to stop water permeation. 

I believe this is a problem that will get worse. The need to clear floods is obvious but the answer must be to send the water down not away somewhere else. Slow the water down, recharge drains in to the ground.

[Grumpy John]

9 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

I first came here to the village about 18 years ago. Behind the village was a large swampy area which almost flooded in the wet, it has been cleaned out to form the current reservoir and a system of klongs to handle overflow. The dam is low but still holds a lot of water but the klongs clear any excess so that the "speed" of the water is much increased and the ground water recharge is limited. The dam is clay lined to stop water permeation. 

I believe this is a problem that will get worse. The need to clear floods is obvious but the answer must be to send the water down not away somewhere else. Slow the water down, recharge drains in to the ground.

Man oh man, "18 years in the village".  How do you keep your sanity??? ????  I've only been in this village 7 years and a bit and I have crazy days where my brain almost explodes!  ????  

 

Back to the problem of water.  Fellow TVF user billd766 seems to be in an area that is far worse than you or I.  I've said to the wife why don't the village draw water from the dam on the other side of Khao Khiew...but she doesn't know!  A 5 kilometre pipe would be needed.  Seems strange not to take advantage of an existing resource.

[Grumpy John]

Well there is a first time for everything!  On the subject of dams and I am dam lucky to be alive tonight.  Was fetching water out of the dam just near the gum tree (Left side in pix) and I ended up in the dam!  I was using a bucket with a bit of rope tied to the handle.  Squatting down so as to get the bucket away from the edge a bit I filled the bucket and went to stand up and woosh, in the dam I went.  I hurt my hip but not my head so I stayed conscious.  Was able to swim out and grab the bucket and my thongs which I tossed up on to land.  Had no way to get out there so headed South to where the ground is level enough to drag myself out.  Is luck or maybe lord Buddha is watching over me..... ????

[billd766]

15 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

Man oh man, "18 years in the village".  How do you keep your sanity??? ????  I've only been in this village 7 years and a bit and I have crazy days where my brain almost explodes!  ????  

 

Back to the problem of water.  Fellow TVF user billd766 seems to be in an area that is far worse than you or I.  I've said to the wife why don't the village draw water from the dam on the other side of Khao Khiew...but she doesn't know!  A 5 kilometre pipe would be needed.  Seems strange not to take advantage of an existing resource.

We were on water tanker deliveries from January until late May/early June this year and I fear 2020/2021 will be the same or worse. Having said that it has ben raining since about 6pm though not that hard as to be worth much.

 

I have 20 ongs cross connected and 6 unconnected which is wherte the water tanker drops its load. I then use a pond pump and a long hose to top off the 20 ongs.

 

When I win the lotery (sounds of hollow laughter from stage left) I plan to build a single holding tank 12 x 4 x 2.5 metres which in theory will give me about 120 cubic metres or 120,000 litres which will keep us going for a few months. We will still take the deliveries though.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Grumpy John said:

Well there is a first time for everything!  On the subject of dams and I am dam lucky to be alive tonight.  Was fetching water out of the dam just near the gum tree (Left side in pix) and I ended up in the dam!  I was using a bucket with a bit of rope tied to the handle.  Squatting down so as to get the bucket away from the edge a bit I filled the bucket and went to stand up and woosh, in the dam I went.  I hurt my hip but not my head so I stayed conscious.  Was able to swim out and grab the bucket and my thongs which I tossed up on to land.  Had no way to get out there so headed South to where the ground is level enough to drag myself out.  Is luck or maybe lord Buddha is watching over me..... ????

You were very lucky there. I used to have a Honda engine and water pump years ago when I used to go to the klong to get water. You could probably buy an electric pump and a long enough hose with a non return valve to suck the water up from your pond. If nothing else it should be a lot safer than falling in. You really need a second person to watch out for you.

[DrTuner]

You're lucky. 2021 is not looking good at the moment...

 

 

https://www.thaiwater.net/v3/

 

 

[Grumpy John]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

You were very lucky there. I used to have a Honda engine and water pump years ago when I used to go to the klong to get water. You could probably buy an electric pump and a long enough hose with a non return valve to suck the water up from your pond. If nothing else it should be a lot safer than falling in. You really need a second person to watch out for you.

Was lucky!  Left my phone in the cup holder on the tractor.....and the tractor was pulling the airbus through the orchard with wifey driving.  Only needed 3 bucket full to water the papaya we had planted the day before.  No leccy out there.  We have the ubiquitous Honda 3" sludge pump popular here in LOS.  Not going through all the trouble to set that up!  Wifey wants me to take a drum of water on the trailer and use that...and water the new mango trees while your at it!  Which is fine.

[Grumpy John]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

We were on water tanker deliveries from January until late May/early June this year and I fear 2020/2021 will be the same or worse. Having said that it has ben raining since about 6pm though not that hard as to be worth much.

 

I have 20 ongs cross connected and 6 unconnected which is wherte the water tanker drops its load. I then use a pond pump and a long hose to top off the 20 ongs.

 

When I win the lotery (sounds of hollow laughter from stage left) I plan to build a single holding tank 12 x 4 x 2.5 metres which in theory will give me about 120 cubic metres or 120,000 litres which will keep us going for a few months. We will still take the deliveries though.

Wow! 26 ongs....  Assuming their all 1500L that's barely enough for household use.  No wonder your getting water trucked in.

 

Using a swimming pool design with poured reinforced concrete you could have a pretty good pool. As a rule of thumb using 4" thick concrete and assuming your local 10 wheel delivery truck has a 6 cubicM barrel you will need 2.7 trucks given floor and walls + 1.5cubicM for the curved section floor to wall and 10% safety margin.  Plus reinforcing and labour.  Getting a decent concrete guy is the trick....which is a bit like a decent builder/electrician/motor mechanic etc. 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

Wow! 26 ongs....  Assuming their all 1500L that's barely enough for household use.  No wonder your getting water trucked in.

 

Using a swimming pool design with poured reinforced concrete you could have a pretty good pool. As a rule of thumb using 4" thick concrete and assuming your local 10 wheel delivery truck has a 6 cubicM barrel you will need 2.7 trucks given floor and walls + 1.5cubicM for the curved section floor to wall and 10% safety margin.  Plus reinforcing and labour.  Getting a decent concrete guy is the trick....which is a bit like a decent builder/electrician/motor mechanic etc. 

It is basically a small swimming pool with concrete slabs across the top to keep the dead leaves and trash from going in. I am not sure if we can dig deep enough as somewhere below the dirt surface is granite so it will probably end up semi submerged.

 

I can get 4 metre by 30 cm slabs from the local concrete place and I would put 3 internal walls with access holes for the water flow to support the slabs and get a 90cm x 1 metre access hole cut in it at one corner. A mate of mine tells me that somewhere in our area is a farang who builds swimming pools and this would be much simpler to do.

[Grumpy John]

The swimming pool guy would be the one.  If you do bad swimming pools the word would GEt around. Would be worth considering for a special in ground/above ground job. 

[billd766]

This is what my current water storage looked like when we put it in a few years ago. The other one is my 2 drinking water tanks rain fed from the roof.

[IsaanAussie]

How do you fill the water pots?

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, IsaanAussie said:

How do you fill the water pots?

 

The fillers are the pipes running across the top and into each ong. I used a simple toilet ballcock valve to shut off the water when the ong is full.

 

Eah row across has one filler pipe and valve and toget the water to the pump each row of ongs are connected across the bottom, and each of the 5 rows are connected to the pump.

[IsaanAussie]

So you pump the water in? We all do this stuff differently but they seem very small diameter pipes for an unpressurised system.

Good to see the minimum draw off level so you aren't sucking in sediments.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, IsaanAussie said:

So you pump the water in? We all do this stuff differently but they seem very small diameter pipes for an unpressurised system.

Good to see the minimum draw off level so you aren't sucking in sediments.

I have changed the system a little and put 2 filters (with space for a third) before the pump.

In the long dry season this year which was nearly 6 months long, my wife used to go to the amphur to sign for water once a week which would be delivered later in the week. I am not sure where they got the water from but it wasn't the cleanest.

 

Having put the filters in (140 thb each), the first one lasted 10 days before replacement and the 2nd in line generally lasts around a month. Even now with the government water back on line the water still isn't that clean.

 

Tomorrow I will take a couple of photos of th filters and the elements and post them here.

 

quote "We all do this stuff differently but they seem very small diameter pipes for an unpressurised system."

 

The system started out about 16 years ago using 4 ongs and 1/2 inch pipe. Over the years i have moved and added more ongs and the locals (plus my wife) used to laugh at me and kept to their 1 or 2 ongs. 

 

The outlet from the ong is still 1/2 inch but I put a 1/2 to 3/4 expander on each ong and the fill and outlet pipes are now 3/4. The new filters take it back to 1/2 inch and of course the pump fittings are 1 inch dropping down to 3/4 at the old filter and 1/2 inch into the house.

 

It would be too big a job to rip out all the pipework and redo it, as the ongs and the filters are still only 1/2 inch as the internal house plumbing, while the pump is a standard 1 inch fitting.

 

[Grumpy John]

WOW!  When you see the setup it really puts it in perspective.  Those stainless steel tanks would hold way more than an ong.  

 

Starting about 5:15 pm it rained last night till the witching hour.  We haven't got anymore storage so the water just runs away.