32 Pheu Thai MPs vow to stand by student protesters

[Enoon]

 

“misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows"

              "The Tempest", William Shakespeare.

 

Often re-interpreted, according to requirements, as:

"War/politics doth make strange bedfellows of us all"

                                                                     

Leave arguing about who owns the revolution until after it's won.

 

That argument may be uglier than the revolution itself.

 

That's revolutions/post-revolutions for you (omelettes, broken eggs, etc).

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Enoon

[Artisi]

3 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

No comment 

But you did... 

[MRToMRT]

I bet they do. I am torn between a) calling them slime bags and b) supporting the action as a stand alone action.

 

I suppose its irrelevant, the north and north east will vote them into power again next time anyway (in one form or another). The wheel keeps turning but the cart does not go anywhere.

[Mr Meeseeks]

And right on cue, the usual coup supporters on the forum come out to condemn red shirts and Thaksin immediately on this thread.

 

Just can't help themselves, but they lost all credibility when they supported this junta over the elected administration.

[3NUMBAS]

the rich getting richer and the poor getting potless ,sure thay have a grievance

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

And right on cue, the usual coup supporters on the forum come out to condemn red shirts and Thaksin immediately on this thread.

 

Just can't help themselves, but they lost all credibility when they supported this junta over the elected administration.

Anyone who supports Thaksin also loses credibility. Thaksin (and ofshoots) was as bad as the junta is now. Neither should be in power. I hope the students stay far away from Thaksin then there can be progress. 

 

Thaksin was a criminal and so is Prayut now. One side has a drug minister MP the other side (red side) a murder as MP. For there to be any progress in Thailand there must be clean politicians. I had good hope for future forward. But those hopes were dashed by Prayut.

 

Yes I supported the junta as did many others as we all thought they would not stay long. They never had before so there were good grounds to believe this would just be a cleanup of all the corruption. Just like last time. The moment thing changes my support was gone. 

 

I hate corruption on all sides that is why I can never ever support a Thaksin government and now a Prayut one. They are all the same just stealing money and attacking the other side. I mean come on Prayut protecting his drug minster and the reds protecting the murderer MP. Good parties would have instantly said goodbye to the bad people in their midst but neither did. So in my book they are equally bad. 

 

Anyway I hope the students keep this going and don't let themselves be used. This is great what they are doing. If they want the numbers growing they should not commit to a side so its a united student protest. 

[geriatrickid]

It's Thaksin bogey man time again. He is 71 years old.

Now, I certainly appreciate that many of our older members believe that they are in fine shape and that  71 is the new 51 and all that good stuff, but our friend Thaksin isn't a gym bunny, and I don't think he has done anything more physically exhausting than perhaps walking from his swinging bachelor pad to his vehicle or perhaps lifting his underpants off the bathroom floor.  As such, I don't think he really has the energy or the stamina to come back and  run the country. His time passed him by, oh say 10 years ago. Let it go.

 

The PT are hitching their wagon to the students to gain some traction.  The real political player here is Future Forward Party's Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit.  (For the sake of transparency, I really like and respect this man. I consider him a role model for Thailand's youth and he is the future of the country, not the doddering old corrupt men who populate Thailand's politics.)  The 10-year political ban on 16 of the FFP's executive members effectively crippled the party, but the message is still valid.  The student groups will carry on in its absence, not Pheu Thai.   Thanathorn expressed the student goals very well in this interview with Andrea Mitchell. it predicts what has happened. T

 

Everytime I watch this interview it reinforces what a decent and honourable man  he is. Forget about Thaksin. It's over, finished. The future is with people like him. He reminds me of the people I went to school with who progressed into leaders and innovators. The interview is worth a watch because it  explains the motivations of the students and why one should not get excited about the Pheu Thai association. It is PT chasing after the students, not the other way around.

 

 

 

(public access newscast and available for public use)

Edited August 16, 2020 by geriatrickid

[Yinn]

 

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, PT did not win the majority of the votes in the last election.

You forget why? 

 

Thailand's top court has dissolved an opposition party that nominated the king's sister as its candidate for prime minister.

Thai Raksa Chart is backed by exiled ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, who was deposed by a military coup in 2006.

Analysts say dissolving the party will make it harder for Mr Thaksin's supporters to win the national election due later this month.

 

link 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47482040

 

PT and Thai Raksa Chart are the same team. Must have two teams because Prayuts “rules” ban the popular party.

 

Link 

https://ilaw.or.th/node/5292

 

The new election system named, “Mixed Member Apportionment” or MMA was written to give the disadvantages to the big political party which received a big number of the constituency Member of Parliament (MPs). In other words, it was set with the intention of getting rid of Pheu Thai Party directly and it achieved that result. In addition, it helped medium-sized political parties have an advantage in gaining MPs from the party-list system. Somsak Thepsutin, the leader of Palang Pracharat Party even once said: “this Constitution was designed for us”.

 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Yes I supported the junta as did many others as we all thought they would not stay long. They never had before so there were good grounds to believe this would just be a cleanup of all the corruption. Just like last time. The moment thing changes my support was gone. 

What are you wittering on about? 

 

A cursory glance at Thai military coup history shows the subsequent regimes try to cling onto power and are never easily removed when detrimental to the country. 

 

What on Earth made you think the military would "cleanup all the corruption" when they were colluding with Thailand's most corrupt politician, Suthep Thaugsuban? Even his own colleagues in the Democrat Party openly called him on this. 

 

????

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

What are you wittering on about? 

 

A cursory glance at Thai military coup history shows the subsequent regimes try to cling onto power and are never easily removed when detrimental to the country. 

 

What on Earth made you think the military would "cleanup all the corruption" when they were colluding with Thailand's most corrupt politician, Suthep Thaugsuban? Even his own colleagues in the Democrat Party openly called him on this. 

 

????

Maybe because of how bad it was under Thaksin i was willing to believe and hope for better things.

 

But you seem to miss all my points about how the junta and Phea Thai are equally bad. 

 

No normal.party would allow an MP that was up for murder charges to stay on while at the same time attacking the drug ministwr of Prayut. That just shows how corrupt and self serving those parties are.

 

The students do well not to affiliate with the PTP unless they want to be tainted.

 

 

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:43 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Pheu Thai want power for dear leader and they pretend his crimes didn't happen.

They want more of the same.

We all remember what happened last time when the paid Pheu Thai supporters pretended to protest peacefully for democracy. Never forget!

 

I hope the real pro democracy students stay far away from the red mob or whatever color they use this time.

Protesters are not supposed to get paid. In the moment they get paid they make themselves the tools of the paymaster.

Don't do that!

 

The picture is from Wikipedia, no problem with copyright.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_political_protests

 

Pheu Thai have only ever attained power via elections.

Thaksin is about as guilty as Thanathorn.

 

The reality is.... all you hope for is a continuance of the status quo. You clearly do not support democracy (nor reason nor facts).

 

There are in several countries right now, the beginnings of uprisings to reclaim democracy - Belarus being the latest.

 

Trump is going to get obliterated in the November presidential election.

 

Your kind of politics is a proven failure are the people of the world have had there fill.

 

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 11:50 AM, scorecard said:

Very well said indeed!  "We all remember what happened last time when the paid Pheu Thai supporters pretended to protest peacefully for democracy. Never forget!

 

I hope the real pro democracy students stay far away from the red mob or whatever color they use this time.

 

Protesters are not supposed to get paid. In the moment they get paid they make themselves the tools of the paymaster.

Don't do that!"

 

I really hope the students stick to their demands and their policies and morals and don't allow red folks to infiltrate their numbers.

 

As said PT ultimately have their own aims which don't align at all with what the students are tying to achieve. And don't align to quality democracy. Their own gang is not democratically developed or organized.

 

How hilarious are you guys.

These kids would, given the opportunity, all willingly vote for Thaksin in a heartbeat.

The kids are risking all for a cause that is diametrically opposed to your ramblings.

The students and Pheu Thai are aligned - it is your thoughts and musings that require realignment.

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:21 PM, sweatalot said:

I hope the students know where peu Thai is coming from and will not go for Thaksin to come back - that would not improve the situation at all.

The students know an awful lot more than you about the entire situation. They know what needs to happen for Thailand to flourish. They are risking all to improve the situation. 

 

Given the choice between Thaksin and your team that is currently in power - the kids would unanimously choose Thaksin.

 

Seems to me, it is you who needs to get in the know.

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:20 PM, rasmus5150 said:

Keep the demonstrations "clean", keep out Pheu Thai.

 

If they involve Pheu Thai, then the end result will not be democracy but only more corruption and incompetence.

What a ridiculous statement.

If Pheu Thai are involved, the end result is democracy and that is what you are opposed to.

Have the courage to say it.

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:23 PM, JimGant said:

Sometimes. I'm not too happy with what's happened in America, where now everyone with a television has the vote, and can just make decisions based on sound bites that are lies, as they don't have the IQ or wherewithal to read up on all the facts. The original America allowed only for educated people to have the vote (white, male landowners). Universal suffrage, alas, allowed the overweight, tattooed bikers of recent South Dakota fame to elect (reelect) a president who, if bikers good read, research, analyze, and make a reasoned decision, wouldn't have a chance.

Anyway, as for Thailand and their universal suffrage, as such -- I'm not too comfortable with the masses making a reasoned decision on any future election.

Unfortunately, the current economic mess in Thailand, due to corvid, will scream for a change of gov't, particularly since the pedigree of the current one isn't too spick and span. Not that another gov't could, or would, do any better...

No, I kind of wish Thailand could semi-democratically find and embed their own Lee Kuan Yew. All this <deleted> about Western style democracy is, well, just <deleted> over here in Asia. And I wish Thailand, like Singapore, would preclude seditionist street rallies -- as they, unfortunately, can end up in bloody confrontations of idealists vs pragmatists.

None of this is going to help the tough road ahead for Thailand in recovering from corvid. And, actually, the current gov't, by world assessment, is not doing too badly.

 

If you are going to criticise the iq of others, it may be wise to check the grammar and spelling of your ramblings prior to clicking that post button buddy boy. It probably wouldn't hurt you to educate yourself a fraction more on the economic performance of the unelected regime in the years between the coup and the pandemic as well. They've been abysmal. If they're "not doing too badly" why oh why have they just sacked the economic team and appointment a new Finance Minister?

 

We all get it, you think you're smart, others are dumb and that authoritarian regimes are just brilliant.

 

Truth is, you aren't as smart as you think you are, citizens aren't dumb and oppression and fascism suck.

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:38 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, lots of innocent soldiers died because Thaksin wanted "his" money back. The red-shirts could all have gone home. The free busses were ready to bring them back to their homes.

 

And please look up the definition of murder. You obviously don't understand the meaning.

How is it possible to have such an inaccurate version of history bouncing around inside that cranium of yours?

 

Don't worry, the student led protests will soon right the wrongs caused by people who "think" as you do.

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:39 PM, from the home of CC said:

the billionaire not leading the charge? lol, figures. Just waiting for all the armchair Che Guevara's on this site to suggest that Thais should forego working to provide for the family table and instead hit the streets.  

You gotta fix the big problems first.

 

Thailand is one of the most unequal countries in the world, the legal system is a joke (red bull!) and freedoms are being eroded daily.

 

The brave are hitting the streets to help create a better future for their families.

 

As for the keyboard warriors, well, you know what they are doing.

 

 

[scorecard]

41 minutes ago, Loongharkok said:

How hilarious are you guys.

These kids would, given the opportunity, all willingly vote for Thaksin in a heartbeat.

The kids are risking all for a cause that is diametrically opposed to your ramblings.

The students and Pheu Thai are aligned - it is your thoughts and musings that require realignment.

I very much doubt that, do some reading of what their student leaders have been saying and note that one of their role models is khun Thanathorn.  

 

None of that aligns to thaksin. 

[scorecard]

14 minutes ago, Loongharkok said:

How is it possible to have such an inaccurate version of history bouncing around inside that cranium of yours?

 

Don't worry, the student led protests will soon right the wrongs caused by people who "think" as you do.

Well said...

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:43 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Winning elections does not mean the winners are above the law.

Thaksin and Yingluck are wanted criminal fugitives because they broke the laws.

They could still be happy in Thailand if they wouldn't have been so greedy.

 

No, PT did not win the majority of the votes in the last election.

Oh geez man, you really do avoid reality.

 

Not winning elections, rigging elections and conducting coups does not mean "the winners" are above the law.

 

Funny how Interpol don't view Thaksin and Yingluck as criminals. Funny how the vast majority of Thais don't view Thaksin, Yingluck or Thanathorn as criminals. The fact is, the only ones who view Thaksin, Yingluck and Thanathorn as criminals are those who are opposed to democracy in Thailand.

 

All Thais could be happy in Thailand if the greedy oligarchs and generals stopped overthrowing democracy.

 

Anyone who believes the farcical election figures released by the unelected coup government, well, what can be said.....

 

Recap -  a political party unjustly disbanded, massive campaigning restrictions on the opposition, 600 million baht illegal Chinese dinner fundraiser by the coup government whilst Future Forward was banned from selling t-shirts, vote totals exceeding the number of eligible voters in certain pro coup government seats, halting counting at 90% and then submitting numbers days later with massive jumps in coup government totals, changing the seat allocation laws AFTER the votes are tallied, a constitution with a fully unelected Senate and of course using the courts to throw opposition politicians out of parliament. Yeah, Thaksin is the super villain of Thai elections.

 

What really confuses me is why you are unable to just come out and say what it is you really, really believe in and support. Every aspersion you throw out at Pheu Thai or Future Forward etc.., every single one of them, the illegal coup government is actually guilty of a thousands times over..... yet you never ever mention it.

 

If you are not going to base your positions on sound facts and then utilise those facts with integrity and honesty when stating or arguing for your cause then you really are just wasting your time. All you are achieving is a maintenance of your own misguided reality that is at odds with the real world. That's no way to live.

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:50 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

He helped to remove the criminal Thaksin, his little sister and he stopped the red mob.

That's why lots of people gave flowers to the soldiers. Thank you Prayuth.

 

There appears to be only 1 lady giving flowers to the soldiers in your picture, not "lots"

 

Riddle me this... if the Yellows, PDRC, Generals et al are so popular - why are they so afraid of democracy?

 

BTW - when Yingluck was overthrown, the mob was not red. Please do educate yourself a touch before commenting.

[Loongharkok]

On 8/16/2020 at 4:07 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Which part about being a criminal don't you understand.

A criminal who is at the time when he commits his crimes a politician is still a criminal.

The list of Thaksin's crimes is long and it's not too difficult to see that he used his political position to commit many crimes.

Or do you really believe he is innocent? 555

But, but Thaksin.

 

Don't you find it sad that you spend so much of your time arguing against something rather than for something.

 

If you are for democracy, then the argument to be made right now, is about the current regime. Thaksin is yesterdays news.

 

The reason you don't argue for something..... we all know. 

Don't worry.

No need to muster the courage to actually, openly state what it is you believe in.

We truly do know what makes you tick.

 

But, but Thaksin.........hahahahaha

[scorecard]

16 minutes ago, Loongharkok said:

Oh geez man, you really do avoid reality.

 

Not winning elections, rigging elections and conducting coups does not mean "the winners" are above the law.

 

Funny how Interpol don't view Thaksin and Yingluck as criminals. Funny how the vast majority of Thais don't view Thaksin, Yingluck or Thanathorn as criminals. The fact is, the only ones who view Thaksin, Yingluck and Thanathorn as criminals are those who are opposed to democracy in Thailand.

 

All Thais could be happy in Thailand if the greedy oligarchs and generals stopped overthrowing democracy.

 

Anyone who believes the farcical election figures released by the unelected coup government, well, what can be said.....

 

Recap -  a political party unjustly disbanded, massive campaigning restrictions on the opposition, 600 million baht illegal Chinese dinner fundraiser by the coup government whilst Future Forward was banned from selling t-shirts, vote totals exceeding the number of eligible voters in certain pro coup government seats, halting counting at 90% and then submitting numbers days later with massive jumps in coup government totals, changing the seat allocation laws AFTER the votes are tallied, a constitution with a fully unelected Senate and of course using the courts to throw opposition politicians out of parliament. Yeah, Thaksin is the super villain of Thai elections.

 

What really confuses me is why you are unable to just come out and say what it is you really, really believe in and support. Every aspersion you throw out at Pheu Thai or Future Forward etc.., every single one of them, the illegal coup government is actually guilty of a thousands times over..... yet you never ever mention it.

 

If you are not going to base your positions on sound facts and then utilise those facts with integrity and honesty when stating or arguing for your cause then you really are just wasting your time. All you are achieving is a maintenance of your own misguided reality that is at odds with the real world. That's no way to live.

 So many errors of fact, twists and falsehoods in your post, I won't waste my time with any further comment. 

[Loongharkok]

22 hours ago, scorecard said:

Seems to me you're assuming that because someone doesn't like Thaksin that automatically means that person loves the other side.

 

That can't be an automatic truth, because it ignores many other factors no the least that many TV folks have stated clearly it's not a valid assumption. 

 

Further it's very possible and many have already said it, they seriously didn't like both sides. 

 

You have a very long post history here (424 pages to be exact).

Who and what you support is not up for debate.

 

An unhealthy Thaksin obsession is by far and away the most potent and accurate indicator identifying those who "love the other side".

 

Stop hiding behind Thaksin and start being honest - if not with the world at large, then at the very least with yourself.

 

 

[Loongharkok]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 So many errors of fact, twists and falsehoods in your post, I won't waste my time with any further comment. 

Nobody expected you to do anything other than run away from the facts and keep on punching away on that keyboard with some good old but, but Thaksin's.

 

Your unwillingness to defend your facile positions brings a smile to my face.

 

[Loongharkok]

16 hours ago, robblok said:

Maybe because of how bad it was under Thaksin i was willing to believe and hope for better things.

 

But you seem to miss all my points about how the junta and Phea Thai are equally bad. 

 

No normal.party would allow an MP that was up for murder charges to stay on while at the same time attacking the drug ministwr of Prayut. That just shows how corrupt and self serving those parties are.

 

The students do well not to affiliate with the PTP unless they want to be tainted.

 

 

But, but Thaksin

Until the day you die.

 

These kids, the ones fighting for their country, there is an awful lot you need to learn from them.

 

The simplest and most obvious thing, don't ever side with those who conduct coups with anti-democratic fascist undertones.

 

You would think something so mind numbingly obvious would not need to be stated, but here we are hey?

 

But, but Thaksin.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Loongharkok said:

How is it possible to have such an inaccurate version of history bouncing around inside that cranium of yours?

 

Don't worry, the student led protests will soon right the wrongs caused by people who "think" as you do.

I live in the middle of Bangkok since more than two decades. I experienced Thaksin, the yellow shirts, the red-shirt, little clone sister, and and and. My Thai is reasonable. I talk with people and I read the local and international news everyday.

And then you come and want to tell me that you know everything better. Try again!

[OneMoreFarang]

42 minutes ago, Loongharkok said:

There appears to be only 1 lady giving flowers to the soldiers in your picture, not "lots"

Did you hear about Google? You can search for articles and pictures. And you should be able to find lots of them.

I was here and I saw lots of people giving those flowers to the soldiers.

I myself gave soft-drinks to them.

 

It's no surprise that you don't know what you are talking about if you only look at one picture.

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, Loongharkok said:

But, but Thaksin.

 

Don't you find it sad that you spend so much of your time arguing against something rather than for something.

 

If you are for democracy, then the argument to be made right now, is about the current regime. Thaksin is yesterdays news.

 

The reason you don't argue for something..... we all know. 

Don't worry.

No need to muster the courage to actually, openly state what it is you believe in.

We truly do know what makes you tick.

 

But, but Thaksin.........hahahahaha

You just replied to about 10 on my comments. So much about all that time...

 

Please tell me what I am for. I would love to know. Because in Thailand I don't know any political party which is good. I think Abhisit is an honest politician. But he had lots of not so honest politicians in his party.

 

But in a situation with only bad options I prefer a not good option to a bad option. And if a new politician appears and he works for all Thais and Thailand I will listen.

 

The fact that that you think Thaksin is yesterday's news shows again your incompetence. PT = Thaksin. Without him they are nothing. He pulls the strings, there is no doubt about that.

 

But what's the point of explaining this to you? You think you know it all and you don't listen. I am out of here.

[Loongharkok]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I live in the middle of Bangkok since more than two decades. I experienced Thaksin, the yellow shirts, the red-shirt, little clone sister, and and and. My Thai is reasonable. I talk with people and I read the local and international news everyday.

And then you come and want to tell me that you know everything better. Try again!

No. Your posting history clearly proves that you are existing in a bubble of your own making, immune from reality, facts, reason and logic.

 

You simply cannot say what it is that you stand for without mentioning Thaksin.

Why is that?

Every single thing you accuse Thaksin of the other side is by far the greater villain, yet you cannot bring yourself to utter these truths.

 

What is it you believe in..... 1 person 1 vote democracy for Thailand?

Of course you don't.

Why don't you put on your big boy pants, man up and simply state what it is you believe.

You love authoritarianism.

It is as clear as it is obvious that the shrill bleatings of "but, but Thaksin" on this forum are but a mere fig leaf for the unpalatable politically leanings of those who so worship the jackbooted thugs who are denying the Thai people their freedom and equality.

 

You lived in Bangkok for 2 decades yet somehow know so very little about your hosts - their dreams, their wants, their desires. The refuge you wallow in, subsumed in a morally bankrupt ideology is blinding and deafening you to the root causes of the traumas blighting the existence of millions of Thais. What a sad, selfish and inconsiderate guest (in their country) you appear to be.