Thanks the Thai gov. And keep publishing this stuff and nobody will come back 

17 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Sarcasm at its finest.  Tell me does the Seine River smell like a toilet like the Klongs of Bangkok do after a rain.  I know the answer, so no reason for you to tell me.  Just think about this statement "The river Seine is a curious pea-soup color, with tree trunks floating in some parts. The banks of the river are covered in dried mud and sand, which the city’s cleaning services are busy scrubbing off".  At least they try to spiff up the Seine through Paris for tourism, unlike Thailand.

I guess I need to hang out around the klongs in Thonglor then?

18 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

its cheap beer bars

Now I know they are fully full of it.

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

You were doing so well until your last 3 lines.

So you think this is all media hyped nonsense then? Do you want tell that to the 790,000 (and counting) already dead? And as for all those that bemoan lockdowns and social distancing, a recent Imperial College London study shows that if lockdown hadn't occured, Europe alone is conservatively estimated to have been looking at 3 milion dead and worldwide, the number would have hit 7 million (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52968523). That's some big numbers by anyones estimate so before you start talking about 'media fear mongering' and fueling 'the populace’s fear' perhaps you should take a moment to think it was in fact an appropriate response given what could have been and possibly still might be.

Facts are irrelevant because I read a meme that said the virus was a hoax...

18 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

"I'm encouraged to see the number of people during COVID-19 getting to know their city again," he said.

 

Rose Duangkamol and her friend who were eating fried noodles on Khao San Road were doing just that.

 

"We used to come here maybe once a month before, but now we come more often," she said. "It's nice when it isn't so crowded."

I don't really think that eating friend noodles on Khao San Road instead of eating fried noodles in the shop outside their condo is really going to make much difference to the economy.

 

Foreign tourism brings in huge amounts of revenue from OUTSIDE the country. Locals spending relatively small amounts of money in another suburb/province instead of in their own suburb/province does not have the same effect.

 

Maybe it's time to admit how much foreign tourism brings to the country and start treating foreign tourists with a bit more respect. You can start now while there's nothing to do by training the immigration officers at the airports not to scowl at incoming tourists as if they criminals that are ruining your day. Then stop the double pricing and ripoffs that the government itself partakes in. That way, when things open up you might start getting good reviews on social media and repeat, quality tourists.

 

Remember, tourists choose Thailand as their destination. Thailand doesn't choose their tourists.

16 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Tourism tourism tourismtourismtourismtourism  jadadadadaaa. Figure out something else to do already. It's dead, Jim.

The T word..

 

What about the R word?

"Retirement" people. 

All of us who are waiting to return to our homes and families. 

6 months for me now, because Thai Airways cancelled my flights..

Then the borders closed. 

 

Wuhan has recovered?

 

 

4 minutes ago, silicastorm said:

Wuhan has recovered?

 

 

Recovered, from What...its own virus or from the economic chaos it caused the world, of course not Thailand.

1 hour ago, NoBrainer said:

Just open already. Thailand will need to reach herd immunity like everywhere else. They are just delaying the inevitable.

This flu is very treatable now, the worlds Dr.'s have learned a lot. Open & get it over with.

Firstly, herd immunity does not simply come from lots of people getting it; that's just more misinformation used by those that don't know what they are talking about (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/24/894148860/without-a-vaccine-researchers-say-herd-immunity-may-never-be-achieved).

The best chance of herd immunity will come from a vacine (see measles, smallpox, flu) as you need roughly 60-70% of the population immune for others to be protected. As Sweden has shown with only 6% showing 'immunity', that figure is VERY hard to reach.

Secondly, it's not the flu but again the only reason flu has become ''treatable' is they have a vacine for it. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, chilli42 said:

Sweden is the only country in the world I am aware of that managed this correctly.  Just follow them.  How difficult can that be with a clear roadmap?

Sweden has one of the highest Covid deaths per population in the world, currently ranked at 6th (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/). Their choice to not lockdown has been hugely controversial and continues to divide the country and public opinion in Europe.

Better examples of 'managing this correctly' would be S. Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand.  

 

.

 

 

Edited August 21, 20206 yr by ftpjtm

18 hours ago, 86Tiger said:

".......proof of vaccination......"

 

 

Proof of which vaccination?  Every country is working their solution for vaccine.  Some are saying 50% effective for 3 months will be good to go, some saying 70%.

 

Which will be acceptable proof for travel?    At 50% effective why even bother?  Flip a coin and go with it.

No need at all. Specialist of virology explained that this virus, like all other in this category, start to go down. The number of death compared to the number of contaminated population is going down now.

Very soon the virus will no more be as dangerous as it was not before (compared with other one health problem all over the world).

Also, a vaccine for this virus would probably doesn't works more than 2 month and doesn't have enough time tested to be safe. Do you want to be forced to apply a lower tested vaccine every 2 month (6 times by year) ? Or do you have some auction in the enterprise who make money with that <deleted> ?

 

So in fact, it was not really a problem with the COVID-19, but with the leadership management all over the world and his big  virtual bubble economy. I think we are living at a crucial u turn point...

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You were doing so well until your last 3 lines.

So you think this is all media hyped nonsense then? Do you want tell that to the 790,000 (and counting) already dead? And as for all those that bemoan lockdowns and social distancing, a recent Imperial College London study shows that if lockdown hadn't occured, Europe alone is conservatively estimated to have been looking at 3 milion dead and worldwide, the number would have hit 7 million (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52968523). That's some big numbers by anyones estimate so before you start talking about 'media fear mongering' and fueling 'the populace’s fear' perhaps you should take a moment to think it was in fact an appropriate response given what could have been and possibly still might be.

Those estimates were based on the flawed models that the epidemiologists created so I wouldn't put much stock in it. One creates a poor model with crazy hyper-inflated numbers to induce fear so policy makers take some action. Action is taken, then you claim you saved people from the spurious prediction based on one's warning.

 

This is not say that the disease is a hoax and no preventive action should be taken, but it's not the disease we were led to believe. However, many credible doctors, virologist, and epidemiologists are saying that they believe the true ifr is between .1-.5%. This would mean that the disease while potentially quite bad (can be truly deadly to many people in certain age groups and with certain comorbidities, and kill some outside of those groups, and can have quite bad long term effects for people who had serious infections) would not cause that huge number of deaths. However, after inducing such fear to change behavior, it is really incredibly difficult to be able to step back from it since the people who made the claims and the politicians who followed them would all be discredited and have their careers ruined.

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Sweden has one of the highest Covid deaths per population in the world, currently ranked at 6th (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/). Their choice to not lockdown has been hugely controversial and continues to divide the country and public opinion in Europe.

Better examples of 'managing this correctly' would be S. Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand.  

North Korea ?

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Sweden has one of the highest Covid deaths per population in the world, currently ranked at 6th (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/). Their choice to not lockdown has been hugely controversial and continues to divide the country and public opinion in Europe.

Better examples of 'managing this correctly' would be S. Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand.  

Sweden had problems with protecting their nursing homes at the start of the pandemic, a fact which they readily admit and regret and which many countries had. They also believe that their nation is not truly comparable to their Nordic neighbors (some parts are similar to them but other parts of the nation are more similar to the UK and the Netherlands)Now they are doing quite well, and it seems that most swedes and the medical establishment there is happy with the current situation in the country.

 

There are interesting interviews from July with Anders Tegnell and an important Swedish physician and researcher if you are interested in links.

 

Case numbers low and deaths in single digits at most. Very few serious cases in the country. Seems like they are through the worst of it, looking at the graph, although they are concerned about a possible second wave this winter.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Edited August 21, 20206 yr by vermin on arrival

19 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

It's called unemployment. Wandering around with nothing to do and nowhere to go

"I'm encouraged to see the number of people during COVID-19 getting to know their city again," he said.

(Tanes Petsuwan, a deputy governor of marketing at the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT))

 

Anything that comes from the mouths of anyone connected with TAT is always good for a laugh!

 

They'll be telling us next that tourist figure are up - oh, sorry, hang on a minute, they've already done that one to death!!!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Firstly, herd immunity does not simply come from lots of people getting it; that's just more misinformation used by those that don't know what they are talking about (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/24/894148860/without-a-vaccine-researchers-say-herd-immunity-may-never-be-achieved).

The best chance of herd immunity will come from a vacine (see measles, smallpox, flu) as you need roughly 60-70% of the population immune for others to be protected. As Sweden has shown with only 6% showing 'immunity', that figure is VERY hard to reach.

Secondly, it's not the flu but again the only reason flu has become ''treatable' is they have a vacine for it. 

 

 

 

Herd immunity is a source of much debate. Some think and are arguing your point, but other virologists, immunologists and epidemiologists are on the other side. The 60-70% figure is also much debated, since a large percentage of the population has t-cell immunity (and other forms of immunity), in Sweden, researchers believe that close to 30% have t-cell immunity. Thus, the numbers may be shifted downwards a great deal, Some say the actual number needed for strong societal protection may drop down to between 20-50%

22 minutes ago, vermin on arrival said:

Those estimates were based on the flawed models that the epidemiologists created so I wouldn't put much stock in it. One creates a poor model with crazy hyper-inflated numbers to induce fear so policy makers take some action. Action is taken, then you claim you saved people from the spurious prediction based on one's warning.

 

This is not say that the disease is a hoax and no preventive action should be taken, but it's not the disease we were led to believe. However, many credible doctors, virologist, and epidemiologists are saying that they believe the true ifr is between .1-.5%. This would mean that the disease while potentially quite bad (can be truly deadly to many people in certain age groups and with certain comorbidities, and kill some outside of those groups, and can have quite bad long term effects for people who had serious infections) would not cause that huge number of deaths. However, after inducing such fear to change behavior, it is really incredibly difficult to be able to step back from it since the people who made the claims and the politicians who followed them would all be discredited and have their careers ruined.

Ok let’s say then the numbers are inflated so what would then be a credible number? 1 million in Europe? 2-3 million worldwide? These are still big numbers. 
Im not disagreeing with what you are saying but I think it’s plain to see that lockdown has prevented enough deaths to constitute its initiation; but the long and short of it is governments the world over (especially western ones) have been utterly clueless in their reactions. 
S.Korea and Taiwan got it right; close your borders early, identify, track and quarantine. Keep your most vulnerable locked away and monitor, monitor, monitor. 
The worldwide economic effects of this disease could have been much, much less if sensible heads had governed, but I suppose that’s too much to ask of politicians, I mean they’re only there to govern after all. 

19 minutes ago, vermin on arrival said:

Herd immunity is a source of much debate. Some think and are arguing your point, but other virologists, immunologists and epidemiologists are on the other side. The 60-70% figure is also much debated, since a large percentage of the population has t-cell immunity (and other forms of immunity), in Sweden, researchers believe that close to 30% have t-cell immunity. Thus, the numbers may be shifted downwards a great deal, Some say the actual number needed for strong societal protection may drop down to between 20-50%

Let’s hope you are right but hopefully you can agree, without the correct numbers to know when herd immunity will become effective, a vaccine is still our best bet. 

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY

 

This headline says it all.  Please allow me to translate.  Quality means wealthy!  Quantity means Chinese and Indian tourists. 

 

Given the greed prevalent in Thai society,  I sincerely doubt that they will give up quantity no matter how much damage it may cause to Thai society and the environment.  

 

The wealthy, in general, prefer Paris and London where the amenities they seek are widespread.  ANy focus on attracting the wealthy to Thailand will be money wasted.

 

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

Ok let’s say then the numbers are inflated so what would then be a credible number? 1 million in Europe? 2-3 million worldwide? These are still big numbers. 
Im not disagreeing with what you are saying but I think it’s plain to see that lockdown has prevented enough deaths to constitute its initiation; but the long and short of it is governments the world over (especially western ones) have been utterly clueless in their reactions. 
S.Korea and Taiwan got it right; close your borders early, identify, track and quarantine. Keep your most vulnerable locked away and monitor, monitor, monitor. 
The worldwide economic effects of this disease could have been much, much less if sensible heads had governed, but I suppose that’s too much to ask of politicians, I mean they’re only there to govern after all. 

Who knows. Not sure what the credible numbers would be. It is very hard to get to the truth of that. The serious professionals who view this just a really bad flu season worse than the Asian and Hong Kong flus, but not as bad as the Spanish flu, are having their voices drowned out by those who need to justify their positions and not lose legitimacy. For sure there was needed a short lockdown to flatten the curve and get an understanding of things, but the situation now is an overkill of hysteria. Having one case is being viewed as the introduction of the black death into society, We must learn to live with this with a clear head and well reasoned preventive measures.

 

Btw, thanks for the reasonable reply to my post. It's nice to know that people can have some disagreement in a public forum and still respect one another.

20 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Khao San Road clearly shows the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on Bangkok, the world's most visited city for four consecutive years before a ban on international travel.

It's a bit like a distraught person who puts a gun to their head after a doctor tells them the they have a disease that is going to kill them.  Then they find out that the disease would indeed make them sick but they'd have over a 99% chance of recovery.  However - the bullet they put into their head has seriously mutilated them leaving them with a 50-50% chance of survival and has essentially ended life as they know it for years to come - if they survive.

No happy ending to this story of self-inflicted injury.

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Let’s hope you are right but hopefully you can agree, without the correct numbers to know when herd immunity will become effective, a vaccine is still our best bet. 

I'm just not optimistic about the time frame, quality and safety of these rushed vaccines. If the creation of one is the only way to reopen much of the world we will be in for a rough ride. I hope I am wrong.

 

Have a good one : )

3 minutes ago, vermin on arrival said:

Who knows. Not sure what the credible numbers would be. It is very hard to get to the truth of that. The serious professionals who view this just a really bad flu season worse than the Asian and Hong Kong flus, but not as bad as the Spanish flu, are having their voices drowned out by those who need to justify their positions and not lose legitimacy. For sure there was needed a short lockdown to flatten the curve and get an understanding of things, but the situation now is an overkill of hysteria. Having one case is being viewed as the introduction of the black death into society, We must learn to live with this with a clear head and well reasoned preventive measures.

 

Btw, thanks for the reasonable reply to my post. It's nice to know that people can have some disagreement in a public forum and still respect one another.

I’m a big fan of civil discourse. Too often the rabid out shout the reasonable and the topic gets lost in “my view has to be heard, so f&ck you”. 

Its neither constructive nor helpful. 

Just now, johnnybangkok said:

I’m a big fan of civil discourse. Too often the rabid out shout the reasonable and the topic gets lost in “my view has to be heard, so f&ck you”. 

Its neither constructive nor helpful. 

It's the only way to ever get a better understanding of the world and change yours or other people's minds. I have already changed my mind twice about the nature of the disease/situation we are in based on discussions I have had with people here and elsewhere. People must be open to the possibility that they may be wrong and be open to having their views changed.

6 hours ago, shackleton said:

I think we can all agree mass tourism will never be the same again 

Thailand needs to get rid of the sex tourist image 

And concentrate on quality family visits who will appreciate the things Thailand is known for scenery beaches Temples dinning out and the Thai people

You mean make Thailand like everywhere else in the world !

20 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

It's called unemployment. Wandering around with nothing to do and nowhere to go

And theirs no one to listen to their tail of woe. There's many people been laid off who don't qualify for the Governments B5000, and there destitute.

22 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Doesn't the sex industry provide a kind of cultural tourism? 

No, of course it isn't. Sex tourism is a result of poverty not a development of a countries culture. Thailand needs to create other avenues for income, I have mentioned this on numerous occasions. Government development in infrastructure would be a good start. Thailand is also not the worlds most visited city. Bangkok measures it's tourists by arrivals at the airport, many of which as travelling on to further destinations. I would say Paris is far beyond Bangkok, especially as France has twice the amount of visitors. Tourism is obviously big for the Thai economy but it is not as crucial in western countries who have a developed economy. 

I recommend the daily COVID update by Dr. John Campbell on YouTube.  

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I don't really think that eating friend noodles on Khao San Road instead of eating fried noodles in the shop outside their condo is really going to make much difference to the economy.

 

Foreign tourism brings in huge amounts of revenue from OUTSIDE the country. Locals spending relatively small amounts of money in another suburb/province instead of in their own suburb/province does not have the same effect.

 

Maybe it's time to admit how much foreign tourism brings to the country and start treating foreign tourists with a bit more respect. You can start now while there's nothing to do by training the immigration officers at the airports not to scowl at incoming tourists as if they criminals that are ruining your day. Then stop the double pricing and ripoffs that the government itself partakes in. That way, when things open up you might start getting good reviews on social media and repeat, quality tourists.

 

Remember, tourists choose Thailand as their destination. Thailand doesn't choose their tourists.

 

Foreign tourism brings in huge amounts of revenue from OUTSIDE the country. Locals spending relatively small amounts of money in another suburb/province instead of in their own suburb/province does not have the same effect.

 

agree, in many western countries a quite a high percentage of the population normally holidays abroad so if they choose to holiday in-country this is a significant economic gain, however i would suggest a relatively small percentage of thais holiday abroad, therefore their contribution to the thai economy when holidaying domestically is quite small.