Pattaya: Transport is in a mess and 80% agree with monorail scheme set to start in 2024

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, DrTuner said:

You have seen the system in BKK, right? I think that is quite a good indication of how much Thais care for aesthetics.

And you'd obviously pay more to ride a better looking version?

 

The infrastructure in place beats most cities already and by the time all the current lines are complete it will be up there with the most comprehensive mass transit systems in the world.

 

Is it ugly?  Yes it is.  Is it functional?  Yes, very.    What do you expect?   Put it underground it costs three times as much.  What is your solution?

Bangkok is a big concrete city. 

 

[DrTuner]

16 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

The infrastructure in place beats most cities already and by the time all the current lines are complete it will be up there with the most comprehensive mass transit systems in the world.

Oh please. Have you ever visited German cities? Or Singapore? Or even HK?

Edited August 25, 2020 by DrTuner

[josephbloggs]

Just now, DrTuner said:

Oh please. Have you ever visited German cities? 

Not for a long time, and no interest in visiting in the future.  What is your point?

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Not for a long time, and no interest in visiting in the future.  What is your point?

If you did, you would know what "most comprehensive mass transit system" means. It means a networks of U-bahns, S-bahns, trams, buses, rail, airports, all connected to each other and operating in a very effecient way, so much so that you never have to take private transport unless you're too lazy to walk a couple of hundred meters. Not a handful of skytrain lines.

Edited August 25, 2020 by DrTuner

[scammed]

i think its a good idea, but tbh i believe the trip to the train station will generate less revenue

then if it had gone in a circle on south pattaya rd - 3rd rd - north pattaya rd - beach rd

[josephbloggs]

20 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

If you did, you would know what "most comprehensive mass transit system" means. It means a networks of U-bahns, S-bahns, trams, buses, rail, airports, all connected to each other and operating in a very effecient way, so much so that you never have to take private transport unless you're too lazy to walk a couple of hundred meters. Not a handful of skytrain lines.

Not sure about your U-bahns or S-bahns but I am sure they're very nice, thanks for sharing..  I did not say Thailand will have absolutely the best mass transit system in the world.  I said when all current lines are complete Bangkok will have one of the most comprehensive mass transit systems in the world, and that is true.  Pretty comprehensive if you ask me even if it doesn't have the fabled Germanic (perfect) U-bahns.

You ignored my other question.  Would you pay more to ride a Banh in Bangkok that is underground considering it costs three times more to build?



 

Edited August 25, 2020 by josephbloggs

[DrTuner]

23 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Would you pay more to ride a Banh in Bangkok that is underground considering it costs three times more to build?

Yes, I would. I prefer them because they are out of sight. But the one I'd really use would be the trams. There's just something about them that I like. Convenient and comfy.

 

Of course all of this has to be available with a single payment card, like the EZ-Link in SG or the Octopus in HK. Payments with a mobile phone NFC would be the best. Without it, it's a hassle to switch transportation mode.

[Dave UK]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:20 AM, DrTuner said:

Thailand seems incapable of creating underground transportation. Instead you have to have these fugly concrete elevated rails blocking the view. They just love their concrete. 

If they put an underground railway in Pattaya, the following will happen.... 1)someone will forget to order the trains

2)when the trains arrive they will be too big for the tunnels

3)every time it rains, the tunnels will flood and the escalators will pack up

4)when the trains eventually start running, the brakes will fail on one of the sets

5)the project will never be completed anyway as they will run out of funding

[Susco]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:20 PM, DrTuner said:

Thailand seems incapable of creating underground transportation.

 

You mean the metro in Bangkok is not in Thailand?

[DrTuner]

10 minutes ago, Susco said:

You mean the metro in Bangkok is not in Thailand?

Exception makes the rule. I always forget about that one. Weren't they supposed to drill another one under the river?

Edited August 25, 2020 by DrTuner

[waders123]

10 hours ago, DrTuner said:

You have seen the system in BKK, right? I think that is quite a good indication of how much Thais care for aesthetics.

Yes, I agree it could use some help in the aesthetics department.  Maybe it is time for the younger people and/or forward thinking people to change the old ways of thinking?  I know money and power petty much dictates what is done it Thailand, (or for that matter; the world!), however, with this present economical disaster it might drive the power and money to think out of the box and do something that will make them look good and give Thailand something to be proud of.  Who knows?  But one  thing is for sure, Thailand needs a better transportation system in Pattaya.  

[balo]

Good for them if they can afford it.  Tourists will have to wait until it's safe to travel again, which could take 3-4 years. 

[josephbloggs]

7 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Exception makes the rule. I always forget about that one. Weren't they supposed to drill another one under the river?

It already does cross the river, twice.

The orange line which opens in three years also crosses the river and is also mostly underground.

So hardly the exception making the rule, Bangkok will have around 70kms of underground rail soon.  And by 2029 we'll have over 500kms of mass transit / metro lines.  But you can just pretend none of that exists / is happening if it suits your agenda.

[DrTuner]

6 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

It already does cross the river, twice.

The orange line which opens in three years also crosses the river and is also mostly underground.

So hardly the exception making the rule, Bangkok will have around 70kms of underground rail soon.  And by 2029 we'll have over 500kms of mass transit / metro lines.  But you can just pretend none of that exists / is happening if it suits your agenda.

I have my doubts if the network will be ever built, especially now that corona killed the economy. I watched the blue line being built in Pinklao from my window for two years, that's where I remember from that they were supposed to drill more. That is the MRT, it's only underground on the east side of the river. I guess they didn't want a skytrain through the palace.

 

But hey if they do dig in Pattaya, good. Don't forget the dark side, there's zero mass transport here.

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

The infrastructure in place beats most cities already and by the time all the current lines are complete it will be up there with the most comprehensive mass transit systems in the world.

Hardly... it will be about 50 miles in total, London is 250 miles.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I have my doubts if the network will be ever built, especially now that corona killed the economy. I watched the blue line being built in Pinklao from my window for two years, that's where I remember from that they were supposed to drill more. That is the MRT, it's only underground on the east side of the river. I guess they didn't want a skytrain through the palace.

 

But hey if they do dig in Pattaya, good. Don't forget the dark side, there's zero mass transport here.

It's not only near the palace, the majority of the blue line is underground all through the city.

And you have doubts the network will ever be built?  It already is being built and much of it is nearing completion.  I guess you haven't been to Bangkok for a while and seen the construction everywhere.  Several extensions have already opened.  Bang Sue Grand Central Station is almost complete and is massively impressive.  Dark Red Line is built and will open as soon as Bang Sue is finished next year.  Orange Line, Yellow Line, Pink Line almost 70% complete.  Gold Line (mini rail) is built and opens soon.

So sorry, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Hardly... it will be about 50 miles in total, London is 250 miles.

More rubbish - you are so far away from the truth it is laughable.  Where on earth do you get a total of 50 miles from?  Today there are already 159kms of lines in service (98 miles if you must) and another 136kms under construction, 70% complete, and due to open in 2023.  So that'll be a total of 295kms (183 miles) operational in the next 2-3 years across 10 different lines.  Quite a bit more than your 50 miles wouldn't you say?

And the overall master plan has 540kms (335 miles) operational by 2029.  Other lines are already out to tender or shortly to be so no reason to believe we won't have the full network.

[DrTuner]

46 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

It's not only near the palace, the majority of the blue line is underground all through the city.

And you have doubts the network will ever be built?  It already is being built and much of it is nearing completion.  I guess you haven't been to Bangkok for a while and seen the construction everywhere.  Several extensions have already opened.  Bang Sue Grand Central Station is almost complete and is massively impressive.  Dark Red Line is built and will open as soon as Bang Sue is finished next year.  Orange Line, Yellow Line, Pink Line almost 70% complete.  Gold Line (mini rail) is built and opens soon.

So sorry, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

AFAIK the entire west side of blue line is skytrain.

 

Yes, it's been three years since I worked in BKK. Looks like they finally opened up the blue line then. How many of the new lines are underground? To me it looks like the piece that was already there is the only one.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

More rubbish - you are so far away from the truth it is laughable.  Where on earth do you get a total of 50 miles from?  Today there are already 159kms of lines in service (98 miles if you must) and another 136kms under construction, 70% complete, and due to open in 2023.  So that'll be a total of 295kms (183 miles) operational in the next 2-3 years across 10 different lines.  Quite a bit more than your 50 miles wouldn't you say?

And the overall master plan has 540kms (335 miles) operational by 2029.  Other lines are already out to tender or shortly to be so no reason to believe we won't have the full network.

 

12 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

It already does cross the river, twice.

The orange line which opens in three years also crosses the river and is also mostly underground.

So hardly the exception making the rule, Bangkok will have around 70kms of underground rail soon.  And by 2029 we'll have over 500kms of mass transit / metro lines.  But you can just pretend none of that exists / is happening if it suits your agenda.

I got the rubbish from YOU..... now that is laughable!

Edited August 26, 2020 by jacko45k

[DrTuner]

Actually an interesting topic.

 

https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/bangkok-metro/

Quote

The project

Construction of the Bangkok Metro began on 19 November 1996. It suffered delays because of the 1997 economic crisis and faced many civil engineering challenges in constructing underground structures. The metro system is also popularly called the Blue Line.

 

So, Tom Yum Kung hit. And then it looks like after that the vast majority has been built over the ground. I suppose there's more profit to be made with all the concrete for SCG.

 

This is what they managed to dig under, 20km:

 

But since the 90's, they've dug more? Safe to say >90% is fugly skytrains, though.

 

EDIT: Yes, apparently they dug under the river, from Hua Lampong to Tha Phra. That was the tunnel I remembered. So, they do have capacity to do it, yet fugly skytrains are preferred.

 

Also, unlike the swamp dwellers up north, Sin City is not a flood field. The topography shows a channel through central bright side that always gets flooded because of the rains and Khao Talo. Divert that (should be done anyway) and start digging.

 

EDIT 2:

It was these two that dug the extension:

http://solutions.ait.ac.th/resources/pdf/9.MRT Blue Line Extension Project - Chih Huang.pdf

Edited August 26, 2020 by DrTuner

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Actually an interesting topic.

 

https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/bangkok-metro/

 

So, Tom Yum Kung hit. And then it looks like after that the vast majority has been built over the ground. I suppose there's more profit to be made with all the concrete for SCG.

 

This is what they managed to dig under, 20km:

 

But since the 90's, they've dug more? Safe to say >90% is fugly skytrains, though.

 

EDIT: Yes, apparently they dug under the river, from Hua Lampong to Tha Phra. That was the tunnel I remembered. So, they do have capacity to do it, yet fugly skytrains are preferred.

 

Also, unlike the swamp dwellers up north, Sin City is not a flood field. The topography shows a channel through central bright side that always gets flooded because of the rains and Khao Talo. Divert that (should be done anyway) and start digging.

 

EDIT 2:

It was these two that dug the extension:

http://solutions.ait.ac.th/resources/pdf/9.MRT Blue Line Extension Project - Chih Huang.pdf

Yes, since the original blue line opened (all underground) it has had a major extension.  Several more stations underground, then it becomes elevated as it leaves the city.  Don't think it has anything to do with SCG - the underground tunnels and stations use tons of concrete, more than overground!

The main reason is cost with underground railways costing 3x more than elevated.  So it does make sense to make them mostly elevated, ugly as they are.

You also missed the orange line which opens in 2023.  29 stations, 23 of them underground and seven elevated.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

 

I got the rubbish from YOU..... now that is laughable!

Ok, now you are being weird.  When I said Bangkok has a better mass transit network than many major cities and will soon eclipse most you made up a ridiculous claim that Bangkok's network will only cover 50 miles.  So I pointed out how that was false and that we already have 159kms of mass transit lines operational, 136kms currently under construction and in the advanced stages, and 540kms planned by 2029.  You then quoted all of that back to me and said it is laughable.

I think you have comprehension issues or otherwise are just a bit odd.  I only stated facts, not sure what your game is - enjoy!

[DrTuner]

48 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, since the original blue line opened (all underground) it has had a major extension.  Several more stations underground, then it becomes elevated as it leaves the city.  Don't think it has anything to do with SCG - the underground tunnels and stations use tons of concrete, more than overground!

The main reason is cost with underground railways costing 3x more than elevated.  So it does make sense to make them mostly elevated, ugly as they are.

You also missed the orange line which opens in 2023.  29 stations, 23 of them underground and seven elevated.

Alrighty then. There was no mention in the OP how much their hideous monorail would cost. If it's in the ballpark with what the tunnel in BKK cost, then you know somebody is telling porkies. I do think extra investment in a beach resort to keep the sky visible would be worth it. But they want BKK by the sea. Urgh.

[Susco]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

So, Tom Yum Kung hit. And then it looks like after that the vast majority has been built over the ground. I suppose there's more profit to be made with all the concrete for SCG.

The initial Bangkok underground railway has been built by a foreign company.

 

I think you are clamping at straws to maintain your flawed arguments

Edited August 26, 2020 by Susco

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, Susco said:

The Bangkok underground railway has been built by a foreign company.

 

I think you are clamping at straws to maintain your flawed arguments

No it's not. Italian - Thai is a local company, as is Karnchang. This is the extension they made, not the original 90's one.

 

 

It looks like they can dig underground after all. But will settle for the cheapest ( fugly skytrains ) as people just don't care how it looks. 

 

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So hardly the exception making the rule, Bangkok will have around 70kms of underground rail soon.  And by 2029 we'll have over 500kms of mass transit / metro lines.  But you can just pretend none of that exists / is happening if it suits your agenda.

Can you explain why Pattaya, which is not so far from Bangkok, and is marketed as a World Class Tourists Destination, has none of this?  

 

Actually, it doesn't even have proper metered taxis, as Bangkok does.  

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

I think you have comprehension issues or otherwise are just a bit odd.  I only stated facts, not sure what your game is - enjoy!

I was using the system only yesterday in Bangkok. Sadly, at the moment a lot of the city is not accessed by this networks and comparing it to the networks of places like London is fantasy. I know what I read, posted by you, and now, as you seem to be back-pedaling. Let us leave it at that.

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I was using the system only yesterday in Bangkok. Sadly, at the moment a lot of the city is not accessed by this networks and comparing it to the networks of places like London is fantasy. I know what I read, posted by you, and now, as you seem to be back-pedaling. Let us leave it at that.

You seem to have real problems with your comprehension and this is getting dull now.  Where am I back-pedalling?  I have said the same thing all along.  In three years from now we will have 10 lines operational covering 295kms.  By 2029 there is planned to be 540kms.

I haven't deviated from that throughout the thread so please move along now.

[josephbloggs]

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

Can you explain why Pattaya, which is not so far from Bangkok, and is marketed as a World Class Tourists Destination, has none of this?  

 

Actually, it doesn't even have proper metered taxis, as Bangkok does.  

Nope, no idea. Probably because it's not really that big of a place and doesn't really need it.  

There are other cities that need it more than Pattaya in my opinion.

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

You seem to have real problems with your comprehension and this is getting dull now.  Where am I back-pedalling?  I have said the same thing all along.  In three years from now we will have 10 lines operational covering 295kms.  By 2029 there is planned to be 540kms.

I haven't deviated from that throughout the thread so please move along now.

Very good.... but high ambitions doth butter no parsnips today. The original Skytrain was pared back I recall. I hope the plans come to fruition. Has nothing to do with a Pattaya monorail though.

Edited August 27, 2020 by jacko45k