California battles 560 wildfires, university threatened

[rooster59]

California battles 560 wildfires, university threatened

By Stephen Lam

 

Cal Fire firefighter Anthony Quiroz carries a hose as he defends a home during the CZU Lightning Complex Fire in Boulder Creek, California, U.S. August 21, 2020. REUTERS/Stephen Lam

 

FELTON, Calif. (Reuters) - California's lightning-sparked wildfires more than doubled in size into some of the largest in state history on Friday, with one blaze advancing to within a mile of the University of California Santa Cruz.

 

At least six people have died, 43 fire fighters and civilians have been injured, and over 500 homes and other structures destroyed as fires have burned an area larger than the U.S. state of Rhode Island.

 

Firefighting forces were depleted as they fought around 560 blazes. Only 45 of 375 out-of-state fire crews requested by California had arrived, said a spokeswoman for wildfire authority Cal Fire.

 

The state has been hit by its worst dry-lightning storms in nearly two decades. Close to 12,000 strikes have sent fire racing through lands parched by record-breaking heat, forcing 175,000 to evacuate their homes, largely in Northern California.

 

The lightning strikes, driven by record temperatures, were a consequence of climate change and more such storms are expected on Sunday, Governor Gavin Newsom told a Friday news conference.

 

"If you are in denial about climate change come to California," Newsom told the Democratic National Convention on Thursday night. One of the hottest air temperatures recorded anywhere on the planet in at least a century, and possibly ever, was reached last weekend at Death Valley in California's Mojave Desert, where it soared to 130 Fahrenheit (54.4 Celsius).

 

Most of the fires are in the San Francisco Bay Area, with a complex of blazes east of Palo Alto and another in wine country south of Sacramento now the seventh and tenth largest in state history, respectively, according to Cal Fire.

 

In Santa Cruz, a city of around 65,000, residents were told to have evacuation 'go bags' at the ready. Bulldozers dug fire lines on the northern flank of the UCSC campus, around three miles (4.8 km) northwest of the coastal city's boardwalk.

 

Videos showed giant Redwood trees, some over 2,000 years old, standing largely unscathed among the torched ruins of buildings in California's oldest state park to the north.

 

"The fire continues to advance, and much of what will happen next depends on weather conditions such as wind direction and speed," UCSC Chancellor Cynthia Larive wrote in a tweet, after ordering the evacuation of the campus.

 

With up to 20 separate blazes burning in some lightning-fire complexes, overwhelmed firefighters pleaded for more support.

 

"We're still understaffed for a fire of this size," said Daniel Potter, a Cal Fire spokesman, in reference to the Santa Cruz blaze.

 

In the North Bay Area, four people died in a cluster of fires that have destroyed over 480 homes and structures in wine counties such as Napa, Solano and Sonoma, Cal Fire reported.

 

A utility crewman died on Wednesday while on duty helping clear electrical hazards for first-responders at the same fire, dubbed the LNU Complex. Earlier that day, the pilot of a firefighting helicopter contracted by the state was killed in a crash in Fresno County.

 

"All our first responders are working to the ragged edge of everything they have," said state assemblymember Jim Wood.

 

The largest fire, known as the SCU Complex, east of Palo Alto, more than doubled in size from Thursday to around 230,000 acres or 359 square miles, an area approaching the size of New York City.

 

(Reporting by Stephen Lam in Boulder Creek, Calif.; Writing and additional reporting by Andrew Hay and Steve Gorman; Editing by Grant McCool and Rosalba O'Brien)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-08-22

 

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[AussieBob18]

Welcome to liberal utopia - dams collapse, crime is rampant, illegals everywhere, and bushfires abound - because the environment is more important than normal people.

 

[Boon Mee]

38 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Welcome to liberal utopia - dams collapse, crime is rampant, illegals everywhere, and bushfires abound - because the environment is more important than normal people.

 

And not to forget the sky-high taxes. 

[simple1]

48 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Welcome to liberal utopia - dams collapse, crime is rampant, illegals everywhere, and bushfires abound - because the environment is more important than normal people.

 

yep it's all down to 'lefties'...

 

The state has been hit by its worst dry-lightning storms in nearly two decades. Close to 12,000 strikes have sent fire racing through lands parched by record-breaking heat

[Cryingdick]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Welcome to liberal utopia - dams collapse, crime is rampant, illegals everywhere, and bushfires abound - because the environment is more important than normal people.

 

Not to mention that increasingly these fires are the products of arson.

[blazes]

Notice how Nitwit Newsom does not mention the rolling blackouts throughout the state as a result of the Green attack on fossil fuel electricity generators.  (Best to say nothing about the absence of nuclear power....)

I am 100% certain that Newsom's air conditioning is working just fine as thousands of his citizens are suffering with their AC off for hours on end. 

[Tug]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Welcome to liberal utopia - dams collapse, crime is rampant, illegals everywhere, and bushfires abound - because the environment is more important than normal people.

 

You forgot to mention the 5 largest economy on the planet and a world renowned bread basket for the planet furthermore just who harvest those crops?and yes lose the environment everything’s dead

[Eric Loh]

What! They didn’t rake the forest floor again? 

[Tug]

7 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Not to mention that increasingly these fires are the products of arson.

By who?

[Cryingdick]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

What! They didn’t rake the forest floor again? 

 

Although Trump misspoke about raking, he was right about forest management. I was just up clearing and raking my land up north. You clear burn and rake this is accepted management practices for as far back as forests have been managed.

 

Firefighters will be raking fire lines now for sure.

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, Tug said:

By who?

You can check local news reports. In the past years arson is becoming more common. By who is a matter for law enforcement to determine. It's very hard to catch anybody doing it and that makes it an effective weapon.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Cryingdick

[rcummings]

42 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

You can check local news reports. In the past years arson is becoming more common. By who is a matter for law enforcement to determine. It's very hard to catch anybody doing it and that makes it an effective weapon.

First off, the current fires have been set off by a huge number of lightning strikes. And you should look up the meaning of "arson". Arson means the intentional setting of fires. While it's true that more fires are being set off by human activity, it's mostly unintention. The result of humans moving into areas they didn't live in before and the fact that human caused climate change is increasing the incidence and severity of droughts out west.

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, rcummings said:

First off, the current fires have been set off by a huge number of lightning strikes. And you should look up the meaning of "arson". Arson means the intentional setting of fires. While it's true that more fires are being set off by human activity, it's mostly unintention. The result of humans moving into areas they didn't live in before and the fact that human caused climate change is increasing the incidence and severity of droughts out west.

and arsons...

[rcummings]

51 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

You can check local news reports. In the past years arson is becoming more common. By who is a matter for law enforcement to determine. It's very hard to catch anybody doing it and that makes it an effective weapon.

Actually, it's even easier to allege but still just as hard to prove.

[rcummings]

52 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Although Trump misspoke about raking, he was right about forest management. I was just up clearing and raking my land up north. You clear burn and rake this is accepted management practices for as far back as forests have been managed.

 

Firefighters will be raking fire lines now for sure.

In severe droughts, forest management is useless. Controlled burning has been practiced in Australia for a long time. It was found that areas with controlled burns fared no better during the recent fires than areas that had been left alone.

And anyway, you've got be be kidding about raking the vast drought prone areas of California. How many 10's of billions would that take? This is the same strategy that Trump advocated. I believe he alleged that the Finns did this. If so, the Finnish government knew nothing about it.

[Cryingdick]

Just now, rcummings said:

In severe droughts, forest management is useless. Controlled burning has been practiced in Australia for a long time. It was found that areas with controlled burns fared no better during the recent fires than areas that had been left alone.

And anyway, you've got be be kidding about raking the vast drought prone areas of California. How many 10's of billions would that take? This is the same strategy that Trump advocated. I believe he alleged that the Finns did this. If so, the Finnish government knew nothing about it.

 

You have to give allowance for the type of forest. Australia burns and it is more prone to burning than say Northern Michigan. I have helped clear and burn forests and when a wildfire came it didn't hit the areas I did. I am talking thousands of acres here. 

 

California needs outright logging and removal on a wholesale basis at this point. There is 50 years of tinder piled up. California has multiple decades of gross mismanagement. 

 

You are right arson is easy to allege and hard to prove and that's the point. If you don't think there are <deleted> off people in the world that will light fires you are delusional. Also there is a bit of insurance fraud going on.  Why? Because it is hard to prove.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Although Trump misspoke about raking, he was right about forest management. I was just up clearing and raking my land up north. You clear burn and rake this is accepted management practices for as far back as forests have been managed.

 

Firefighters will be raking fire lines now for sure.

Does raking really work. Here extract from a Californian. Leave to your own judgement but he sure made a lot of sense. 
 

No, raking forests is not a preventative measure for forest fires anywhere. It would not only not work in California, it would make things much, much worse and be an ecological disaster.

First of all, our forests are evergreen, not deciduous. We have needles, not leaves and they don’t really rake well. In my own backyard I don’t bother. I clean up the various dead branches and/or cut them off the trees and remove any volunteer plants that are starting to grow.

In a forest, you would be raking the top soil.

[Dap]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

Not to mention that increasingly these fires are the products of arson.

As already mentioned, these fires are the product of lightening, and as far as arson goes, not increasingly at all, always has been every year when the Santa Ana winds begin as far back as I can recall (1955) That said, I do believe the nastiness in northern Cal of the past couple of years have been old and unsafe power lines.

[Cryingdick]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Does raking really work. Here extract from a Californian. Leave to your own judgement but he sure made a lot of sense. 
 

No, raking forests is not a preventative measure for forest fires anywhere. It would not only not work in California, it would make things much, much worse and be an ecological disaster.

First of all, our forests are evergreen, not deciduous. We have needles, not leaves and they don’t really rake well. In my own backyard I don’t bother. I clean up the various dead branches and/or cut them off the trees and remove any volunteer plants that are starting to grow.

In a forest, you would be raking the top soil.

 

Nonsense about needles. I worked for the forest service in an area that is pine trees. When you take the dead branches and dead fall you usually rake the floor into what you are burning. After that the ground is clear of debris. 

 

You cut it, pile it and then rake into it. Then you light it on fire. I just got back from a trip doing this the past week and will add some pic of the technique.

[rcummings]

32 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

You have to give allowance for the type of forest. Australia burns and it is more prone to burning than say Northern Michigan. I have helped clear and burn forests and when a wildfire came it didn't hit the areas I did. I am talking thousands of acres here. 

 

California needs outright logging and removal on a wholesale basis at this point. There is 50 years of tinder piled up. California has multiple decades of gross mismanagement. 

 

You are right arson is easy to allege and hard to prove and that's the point. If you don't think there are <deleted> off people in the world that will light fires you are delusional. Also there is a bit of insurance fraud going on.  Why? Because it is hard to prove.

Australia's climate, is, in fact, very similar to California's. So what has Michigan got to do with it? You may be talking of thousands of acres, but in California it's a case of millions of acres.

The question is not whether or not arsonists out there, but how big a problem is it? Unless of course, lightening strikes being an act of God, means God counts as an arsonist.

 

As for forest management in a way, you're right. But it's about too much human intervention:

The vast majority of western dry forests are at risk of large, high-intensity fire because of the effects of poor forest management over the past century. The primary factors that lead to current forest conditions include logging large trees, fire suppression, and livestock grazing. Since the beginning of the 20th century, all three of these factors have been present in western forests, and they continue to play a role today.

https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/public_lands/forests/ecosystem_restoration/fire_and_forest_management.html

Edited August 22, 2020 by rcummings

[Cryingdick]

12 minutes ago, rcummings said:

Australia's climate, is, in fact, very similar to California's. So what has Michigan got to do with it? You may be talking of thousands of acres, but in California it's a case of millions of acres.

The question is not whether or not arsonists out there, but how big a problem is it? Unless of course, lightening strikes being an act of God, means God counts as an arsonist.

 

As for forest management in a way, you're right. But it's about too much human intervention:

The vast majority of western dry forests are at risk of large, high-intensity fire because of the effects of poor forest management over the past century. The primary factors that lead to current forest conditions include logging large trees, fire suppression, and livestock grazing. Since the beginning of the 20th century, all three of these factors have been present in western forests, and they continue to play a role today.

https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/public_lands/forests/ecosystem_restoration/fire_and_forest_management.html

Millions start with thousands if you began doing it right in the first place decades ago. I did thousands, my friends did thousands. Michigan has pine forests especially cedar that produces dead fall that doesn't rot quickly. It burns easily and is usually set off by nothing more than dried needles. 

 

The forest get very dry and experience the same conditions as California at time, fanned by high winds coming off of any one of the three Great Lakes in the area. That is the same as Santa Ana speed winds.

 

The last fires in Australia in an article on this very site it was admitted some of the fires were of nefarious origins. Smokey the Bear was the worst thing that happened to forestry in the USA. 

 

But it could be true that a good portion of California should be declared a high risk area and people should be banned from living there. However national parks where there is no intervention tend to sooner or later have catastrophic fires. Because they will not cut the only intervention has been suppression. 

 

Of course nobody lives in Yellowstone or only a limited population.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Cryingdick

[rcummings]

16 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Millions start with thousands if you began doing it right in the first place decades ago. I did thousands, my friends did thousands. Michigan has pine forests especially cedar that produces dead fall that doesn't rot quickly. It burns easily and is usually set off by nothing more than dried needles. 

 

The forest get very dry and experience the same conditions as California at time, fanned by high winds coming off of any one of the three Great Lakes in the area. That is the same as Santa Ana speed winds.

 

The last fires in Australia in an article on this very site it was admitted some of the fires were of nefarious origins. Smokey the Bear was the worst thing that happened to forestry in the USA. 

 

But it could be true that a good portion of California should be declared a high risk area and people should be banned from living there. However national parks where there is no intervention tend to sooner or later have catastrophic fires. Because they will not cut the only intervention has been suppression. 

 

Of course nobody lives in Yellowstone or only a limited population.

California and Michigan have very different climates and support very different vegetation. The droughts in Michigan are not as frequent nor as severe as those in California. The humidity of the air in California - humidity is a crucial factor in the severity of fires - has got to be much lower than that of winds coming off of the great lakes. And California is huge and much of it accessible only by foot. If people want to protect their homes from fires they can cut and rake their own brush. And install fire suppression water tanks on their roofs. But California can't afford the tactics you propose on a large scale. And once again, in a severe drought - the kind that areas like California and Australia experience - mitigation efforts are ineffective.

[RubbaJohnny]

Rakes progress?

While each location has individual human and environmental factors we are seeing parts of our patrimony our planet degraded by human as well as natural causes , as it ever was.

 

However there are nearly 9 million humans desiring to live with all mod cons, half of them consuming at rates unsustainable for now.

The new Middle class of developing world want all teh aircon and cars we take for granted.

 

There is some hope

Family planning in big 3 India China and Pakistan is reducing average number of chldren per woman.

The young are more aware and its there future

There is money to be made from recycling.

The evolution of better cleaner fuels, transmission and generation

Whether these progress fast enough to help is moot.

[Eric Loh]

48 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Nonsense about needles. I worked for the forest service in an area that is pine trees. When you take the dead branches and dead fall you usually rake the floor into what you are burning. After that the ground is clear of debris. 

 

You cut it, pile it and then rake into it. Then you light it on fire. I just got back from a trip doing this the past week and will add some pic of the technique.

Silly me to think that fir are the most dominant species in California and they have leaves with needles. But you claimed to be on the ground so I can’t argue with that. 

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, rcummings said:

California and Michigan have very different climates and support very different vegetation. The droughts in Michigan are not as frequent nor as severe as those in California. The humidity of the air in California - humidity is a crucial factor in the severity of fires - has got to be much lower than that of winds coming off of the great lakes. And California is huge and much of it accessible only by foot. If people want to protect their homes from fires they can cut and rake their own brush. And install fire suppression water tanks on their roofs. But California can't afford the tactics you propose on a large scale. And once again, in a severe drought - the kind that areas like California and Australia experience - mitigation efforts are ineffective.

 

Cedar in Michigan is close to pine in California. It gets very dry. It gets windy. The problem is when there is enough of a dry leaning understory to ignite the canopy. This is the basic principle of build a fire. Wherever fires burn. In whatever condition there is at least over here in the USA with the pine species it is always the same.

 

Especially if you live standing dead. That's the bridge from the needles to the canopy. There is an unnatural density that develops over decades. 

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Silly me to think that fir are the most dominant species in California and they have leaves with needles. But you claimed to be on the ground so I can’t argue with that. 

Did you just google that? A Douglas fir is a pine tree, a balsam fir is a pine tree. 

[rcummings]

2 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Cedar in Michigan is close to pine in California. It gets very dry. It gets windy. The problem is when there is enough of a dry leaning understory to ignite the canopy. This is the basic principle of build a fire. Wherever fires burn. In whatever condition there is at least over here in the USA with the pine species it is always the same.

 

Especially if you live standing dead. That's the bridge from the needles to the canopy. There is an unnatural density that develops over decades. 

There's only an unnatural density if small fires are extinguished by humans.

Edited August 22, 2020 by rcummings

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, rcummings said:

There's only an unnatural density if small fires are extinguished.

 

Yes and they have been in many places. We agree. The problem is these arid dry areas have let it build up. I have owned land in a few states and I like old trees. I have had original forest on most of what I have. Without exception all old trees have fire scars.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Cryingdick

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Did you just google that? A Douglas fir is a pine tree, a balsam fir is a pine tree. 

Oh really even if there are from different genus. I am not learning from the best. 

 

[mtls2005]

Gotta "clean the floors" our president says.