Trump's physician denies president had a stroke in November

[Credo]

I suspect he had a stroke.   The book which brought up the subject never mentioned a stroke.   The media never speculated that it might be a stroke.   Nobody mentioned anything about what it could be.  Then suddenly we have tweets from the President that it wasn't a stroke.   

Why would he mention a stroke when no one else has unless he did indeed have one?

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

Could you please clarify what you are alleging here?

Not sure how my questioning the ability of Trump to withstand, at his age, another four years of one of the most stressful jobs in the world is somehow "praising Trump". The man is 74 years of age! No one that old should be selected for a job that complex and vital to the nation. He might be fine today but, at any point during that four-year term, Trump could start showing signs of dementia and that would be an absolute disaster for America.

How is it defaming Biden to say that he is avoiding exposure? That is a fact that everyone is fully aware of and all the leading Democrats agree is necessary. I stated that, in the current circumstances, it won't matter and that Biden is likely to win as long as they can keep the riots going and no vaccine emerges until after the election.

 

Considering the age of his opponent that is an indirect endorsement for Trump.

 

You're praising Trump's one liner ability, followed by about Biden 'exposing himself to any live situations'. So again, indirectly endorsing Trump.

 

Which is perfectly ok, your choice, I'm only pointing it out.

[Poet]

33 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

his cognitive decline has developed late in his life.

Well, when exactly do you think cognitive decline usually happens?

You all seem to be forgetting that the man is 74 years of age. Surely it is obvious that no man is going to look good if you compare him at 34 and 74 years of age, but he is still far sharper than most 74 year olds.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the system we have tends to surface candidates when they are far, far too old for the job. Hillary was 69 and clearly not robust enough to cope with the campaign.

It would be a far better idea for candidates to be around 50. For example, at inauguration, Obama was only 47.

 

[Poet]

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Considering the age of his opponent that is an indirect endorsement for Trump.

 

You're praising Trump's one liner ability, followed by about Biden 'exposing himself to any live situations'. So again, indirectly endorsing Trump.

You cannot politicize everything. In a thread speculating upon whether Trump has had a stroke, it is natural for the discussion to move to issues of capability and the effects of age.

At no point did I mention that Biden will be 78 years old at inauguration but, even if I had, to discuss actual facts is not taking a political position.

This is the problem with this modern age of zealotry. You have become so partisan that you can no longer tolerate any speech that does not strictly follow the party line. Certain facts simply cannot be mentioned and everything must be twisted to fit the current marching orders.

It genuinely saddens me. This hysteria is a worse affliction upon the world than Covid-19.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Poet

[cmarshall]

13 minutes ago, Poet said:

Well, when exactly do you think cognitive decline usually happens?

You all seem to be forgetting that the man is 74 years of age. Surely it is obvious that no man is going to look good if you compare him at 34 and 74 years of age, but he is still far sharper than most 74 year olds.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the system we have tends to surface candidates when they are far, far too old for the job. Hillary was 69 and clearly not robust enough to cope with the campaign.

It would be a far better idea for candidates to be around 50. For example, at inauguration, Obama was only 47.

 

None of Hillary Clinton, 73, Bernie Sanders, 78, Joe Biden, 77, or Elizabeth Warren, 71, have any difficulty articulating coherent ideas using a rich vocabulary.  Nor are any of them psychopaths.  

 

Comparing a patient's verbal capabilities with his earlier capacity is a standard diagnostic tool used to diagnose dementia.  

Edited September 2, 2020 by cmarshall

[polpott]

22 minutes ago, Credo said:

I suspect he had a stroke.   The book which brought up the subject never mentioned a stroke.   The media never speculated that it might be a stroke.   Nobody mentioned anything about what it could be.  Then suddenly we have tweets from the President that it wasn't a stroke.   

Why would he mention a stroke when no one else has unless he did indeed have one?

 

He's senile. He can't remember whether he had a stroke or not. Give the old fool a break.

[Tug]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

The book release date is Sep 1.  Interesting timing.

 

Yet another attempt to disparage the greatest president ever.  They lose on the issues so they keep trying this kind of stuff.

 

Won't work.

Catching any fish lol issues lol all this chaos is an attempt by trump to avoid discussing issues every bit of it 

[Pilotman]

would we notice if he had a stroke, he's a rambling idiot normally. 

[Eric Loh]

Trump is morbidly obese with a BMI well above the healthy range which make him much more likely to get a stroke. Obesity will cause plaque build up in the arteries and act as blood clot and if it is an artery in your heart, an heart attack can occurred. He should stop eating his favourite junk food. 

[Poet]

3 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Nor are any of them psychopaths. 

Psychopaths make up over 1% of the general population and tend to be most attracted to the following professions: teaching, law, journalism, business, law enforcement, and politics. There are convincing arguments that they are particularly prevalent among the top politicians in every country.
 

6 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Comparing a patient's verbal capabilities with his earlier capacity is a standard diagnostic tool used to diagnose dementia.  

Yes, but actual doctors, as opposed to forum experts, know that everyone experiences cognitive and verbal declines as they age. The flags for dementia are rapid declines over a short period.

Again, regardless of whether you disagree with his politics, compare Trump's verbal ability to other 74 year old men. It is clear that something he is doing or not doing (possibly not drinking) is keeping his mind unusually sharp.

We have to ask, however, whether there is a danger that, if re-elected, he will develop dementia at any point during the next 4 years. Remember, he will be 78 by the time he finishes, at which age dementia is a very real danger. If we end up with a president whose brain is cottage cheese everyone, Republican and Democrat alike, will suffer the consequences.

 

[polpott]

16 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

None of Hillary Clinton, 73, Bernie Sanders, 78, Joe Biden, 77, or Elizabeth Warren, 71, have any difficulty articulating coherent ideas using a rich vocabulary.  Nor are any of them psychopaths.  

 

Comparing a patient's verbal capabilities with his earlier capacity is a standard diagnostic tool used to diagnose dementia.  

Don't agree on Biden. I find him difficult to listen to.

 

Trump didn't win the last election, the democrats lost it.

 

Trump won't win the next election but the Democrats are doing the best to lose it.

 

They are trying to oust a doddering old fool so they put up a candidate that's even more of a doddering old fool. They needed a young, intelligent and articulate candidate. Where's Barack Obama when you need him?

[connda]

"TIA" Trump and "Dementia" Joe Biden. 

You would think that an intelligent electorate would put the dinosaurs out to pasture and back a new generation of leaders.  But the electorate isn't too smart so they keep backing candidates who need an entourage of medical personnel and plastic surgeons to keep them from looking like the stiff in "A Weekend At Bernie's."

Edited September 2, 2020 by connda

[Poet]

8 minutes ago, polpott said:

Trump didn't win the last election, the democrats lost it.

 

Trump won't win the next election but the Democrats are doing the best to lose it.

Exactly. The reason they end up with these lousy candidates is that, among Democrats, any rational observation about a possible future candidate is interpreted as an attack. Just look at some of the reactions in this thread. A lot of worrying stuff about Biden was suppressed in the media when it became clear he was the establishment choice, but the problem is that Trump won't hesistate to hit hard, and entertainingly, on ALL of it.

They actually had some terrific primary candidates, including Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbard, but somehow they ended up with Biden and Harris (who never rose above 2% in the primaries and was particularly disliked by African Americans).

While I would like to see a female president, Clinton was also a terrible candidate. She might have been okay eight years earlier if Obama had not leapfrogged her, but at 70 was just too bloody worn out. As you say, Trump did not win that election, Clinton lost it.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Poet

[Chomper Higgot]

Trump has now tweeted a statement contradicting the original cover story as to why he was rushed over to the Walter Reed Hospital.

 

He’s doing his best to ensure his neurological ill health gets news coverage.

 

Perhaps he’s building his ‘health issues’ arguments to avoid what he knows is coming if he loses the election.

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, Poet said:

They actually had some terrific primary candidates, including Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbard, but somehow they ended up with Biden and Harris (who never rose above 2% in the primaries and was particularly disliked by African Americans).

They should have put the thumbscrews on Andrew Cuomo and forced him to run.

[Poet]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

They should have put the thumbscrews on Andrew Cuomo and forced him to run.

Oh, he will. Don't worry. He will.

[cmarshall]

19 minutes ago, Poet said:

Psychopaths make up over 1% of the general population and tend to be most attracted to the following professions: teaching, law, journalism, business, law enforcement, and politics. There are convincing arguments that they are particularly prevalent among the top politicians in every country.
 

Yes, but actual doctors, as opposed to forum experts, know that everyone experiences cognitive and verbal declines as they age. The flags for dementia are rapid declines over a short period.

Again, regardless of whether you disagree with his politics, compare Trump's verbal ability to other 74 year old men. It is clear that something he is doing or not doing (possibly not drinking) is keeping his mind unusually sharp.

We have to ask, however, whether there is a danger that, if re-elected, he will develop dementia at any point during the next 4 years. Remember, he will be 78 by the time he finishes, at which age dementia is a very real danger. If we end up with a president whose brain is cottage cheese everyone, Republican and Democrat alike, will suffer the consequences.

 

 

Even for a Trumpist you have an exceptionally peculiar capacity to excuse your hero.  Yes, Trump is not the only psychopath around.  So then it's okay with you that the president is a psychopath?  By the way, you left "criminal" out of your list of professions preferred by psychopaths.

 

Exceptionally sharp?  You really think so?  Trump has always sounded like a moron to me.  But not just me:

 

Professor Kelley told me 100 times over three decades that “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” I remember his emphasis and inflection — it went like this — “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” Dr. Kelley told me this after Trump had become a celebrity but long before he was considered a political figure. Dr. Kelley often referred to Trump’s arrogance when he told of this — that Trump came to Wharton thinking he already knew everything.

 

https://www.truthorfiction.com/trump-was-the-dumbest-gddamn-student/

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, Poet said:

He has always had an unusual way of speaking - his sentence construction is unusual but apparently effective in stressing the points he wishes to convey.

That's just not true though - back in the 80's and 90's he had a completely different and much more coherent manner of speaking. He actually spoke in complete sentences that made total sense.

 

The video below gives some good examples of this.

 

https://youtu.be/QNwjcoCTtsU

[Pilotman]

34 minutes ago, connda said:

"TIA" Trump and "Dementia" Joe Biden. 

You would think that an intelligent electorate would put the dinosaurs out to pasture and back a new generation of leaders.  But the electorate isn't too smart so they keep backing candidates who need an entourage of medical personnel and plastic surgeons to keep them from looking like the stiff in "A Weekend At Bernie's."

that is the most accurate comment I have seen on TVF with regards to the US election. You tend to get the  politicians you deserve. 

[geriatrickid]

Mr. Trump is the first president in a long time who has not been open and honest about his health. Republicans poured over Obama's health records, as did Democrats with Bush the younger's, and of course, everyone delighted in reviewing  Clinton's hoping to find mention of an STI or telltale indication of his  tomcatting. And then we have Trump. Oh, how he hides and conceals just as he did with his tax returns. He  is one to demand disclosure from others but always has an excuse when it comes to himself.

 

[Eric Loh]

47 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

None of Hillary Clinton, 73, Bernie Sanders, 78, Joe Biden, 77, or Elizabeth Warren, 71, have any difficulty articulating coherent ideas using a rich vocabulary.  Nor are any of them psychopaths.  

 

Comparing a patient's verbal capabilities with his earlier capacity is a standard diagnostic tool used to diagnose dementia.  

He kept randomly wandered off numerous times and that is a clear sign of dementia. He wandered off as early as 2017 in the G20 conference on stage and many other events. He even walk out of the Oval office and dragged back to sign a bill. He wandered off in Buckingham Palace in front of the Queen and also when he arrived back Washington on Airforce one and wandered away from his motorcade. Too many to mention. There is something neurologically wrong with Trump that make him dangerous as his ability to process knowledge and thoughts are being challenged and his capacity to function in his office questionable. Biden is fitter in that sense.  

[Poet]

4 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Even for a Trumpist you have an exceptionally peculiar capacity to excuse your hero.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You cannot conceive that anyone who wants to discuss the realities of the situation, rather than join you in your jihad, is automatically a "Trumpist" and must consider him to be their hero.

Trump won because people like you abandoned all intellectual integrity long ago. Very few of the people who voted for Trump consider him to be a hero, few even particularly like the guy, but they are absolutely certain that, given a choice between that narcisist and the anti-democratic partisans like you, they will choose Trump every time.

Time and time again people like you have surfaced with a clear idea of how other people should think, and how they should live. Democracy is offensive to you because you secretly believe the common man and woman to be uncouth idiots. They keep voting the wrong way!

You are the cultural revoluntionary who led physics professors to their deaths in Beijing. You are the khmer idealogue who slaughtered his fellow Cambodians for not agreeing with your bright, shining plan to drag their country back into the middle ages. You and your ilk represent a greater danger to the world than Trump ever has, precisely because you are so smugly certain of your own rightness.

There are good, solid arguments that can be made against Trump, but you are all so focused on making it personal that you have forgotten how to argue rationally. I have no idea how he does it, but this is Trump Derangement Syndrome and it appears to have, once again, gripped your party and blinded it to the actual path to power.

 

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, geriatrickid said:

Mr. Trump is the first president in a long time who has not been open and honest about his health. Republicans poured over Obama's health records, as did Democrats with Bush the younger's, and of course, everyone delighted in reviewing  Clinton's hoping to find mention of an STI or telltale indication of his  tomcatting. And then we have Trump. Oh, how he hides and conceals just as he did with his tax returns. He  is one to demand disclosure from others but always has an excuse when it comes to himself.

 

Reagan's Alzheimer's wasn't revealed until after he left office.  JFK concealed his Addison's disease and other ailments for which he took speed.  G. W. Bush's speech patterns and incomplete sentences were believed to have been caused by his long history of alcoholism.  

[Logosone]

There is no base and low lie, rumour or insunation the left will abstain from to smear this president.

 

You just have to watch him talk and look at him to see that any talk of a stroke is just another malicious leftist rumour spread, at election time surprise surprise, to harm Trump's image.

 

The man is healthy as a rock for his age, it's plain to see. Even has his own hair at that age, astounding health.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Logosone

[polpott]

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Even has his own hair

I have my own hair but I don't need to do a comb over.

[Poet]

7 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

That's just not true though - back in the 80's and 90's he had a completely different and much more coherent manner of speaking. He actually spoke in complete sentences that made total sense.

 

The video below gives some good examples of this.

 

https://youtu.be/QNwjcoCTtsU

Interesting video.

I think something that happens to many people and, in particular performers, is that, in addition to their talking speed slowing, their active vocabularly reducing, and their sentence structure becoming simpler, is that they often become a sort of caricature of themselves. For example, Bill Cosby. To keep getting the same positive reactions from audiences, they start to lean on a standard selection of dependable schticks, rather than coming up with new stuff. Remember, for two decades he was the most iconic TV personality after Oprah, so, very much a performer.

The examples in the video are obviously cherry-picked at both the young and old extreme, but we are talking about a 40 years span. That video, which includes Michael Wolf's dire warnings that he was rapidly slipping into senility, was made in the first year of his presidency. Again, I think this was a wasted avenue of attack because we now know that narrative - that the cabinet would have to oust him on grounds of incapacity - turned out to be a lie. Most voters know enough about dementia to know that it moves quickly. Three years later, he is still there, largely as capable now as when he ran the first time. That, along with everything else that has been thrown against him over the past four years, actually undermines the Democrats and the media.

I still think Biden will win but in these circumstances - an economic collapse, 3 months of riots in major cities, and a fricking pandemic -  it is absolutely shocking that the Democrats are not 20 points ahead.

And that is 100% thanks to the narcisistic idealogues for whom winning is not enough, who have made it crystal clear that they want to punish and crush any fellow Americans who dared to vote the wrong way the first time around.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

47 minutes ago, Poet said:

Psychopaths make up over 1% of the general population and tend to be most attracted to the following professions: teaching, law, journalism, business, law enforcement, and politics. There are convincing arguments that they are particularly prevalent among the top politicians in every country.
 

Yes, but actual doctors, as opposed to forum experts, know that everyone experiences cognitive and verbal declines as they age. The flags for dementia are rapid declines over a short period.

Again, regardless of whether you disagree with his politics, compare Trump's verbal ability to other 74 year old men. It is clear that something he is doing or not doing (possibly not drinking) is keeping his mind unusually sharp.

We have to ask, however, whether there is a danger that, if re-elected, he will develop dementia at any point during the next 4 years. Remember, he will be 78 by the time he finishes, at which age dementia is a very real danger. If we end up with a president whose brain is cottage cheese everyone, Republican and Democrat alike, will suffer the consequences.

 

I believe Trump has already started showing significant signs of dementia. Medications prescribed to slow the impact  can  have an effect on speech among  other side effects.

When comparisons are made to Joe Biden it is ignored that Biden has a stammer which he has  learned to mostly control .

That is not  to say Biden may also be showing  some cognitive decline but he  presents as far more  lucid  that Trump.

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

<snip>At no point did I mention that Biden will be 78 years old at inauguration but, even if I had, to discuss actual facts is not taking a political position.<snip>

That is the beauty of your post. You're implying support for Trump while telling us he is too old.

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, Poet said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You cannot conceive that anyone who wants to discuss the realities of the situation, rather than join you in your jihad, is automatically a "Trumpist" and must consider him to be their hero.

Trump won because people like you abandoned all intellectual integrity long ago. Very few of the people who voted for Trump consider him to be a hero, few even particularly like the guy, but they are absolutely certain that, given a choice between that narcisist and the anti-democratic partisans like you, they will choose Trump every time.

Time and time again people like you have surfaced with a clear idea of how other people should think, and how they should live. Democracy is offensive to you because you secretly believe the common man and woman to be uncouth idiots. They keep voting the wrong way!

You are the cultural revoluntionary who led physics professors to their deaths in Beijing. You are the khmer idealogue who slaughtered his fellow Cambodians for not agreeing with your bright, shining plan to drag their country back into the middle ages. You and your ilk represent a greater danger to the world than Trump ever has, precisely because you are so smugly certain of your own rightness.

There are good, solid arguments that can be made against Trump, but you are all so focused on making it personal that you have forgotten how to argue rationally. I have no idea how he does it, but this is Trump Derangement Syndrome and it appears to have, once again, gripped your party and blinded it to the actual path to power.

 

The reality of the ‘situation’ is Trump’s neurological health, your attempts to deflect the conversation from this are noted.

[Poet]

21 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

When comparisons are made to Joe Biden it is ignored that Biden has a stammer which he has  learned to mostly control .

I saw some footage of Biden in a primary debate, possibly in the 90's, he was a fine speaker.
 

 

21 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

That is not  to say Biden may also be showing  some cognitive decline but he  presents as far more  lucid  that Trump.

There is the question of exposure. We see a lot of Trump, he is probably the most videoed president of all time, he rarely seems to stop talking and is the very definition of "unedited". And then there are the tweets! So, we have this massive trove of material from which to cherry pick the worst moments.

Over the past 8 years, we have not really seen much of Biden. He made surprisingly few appearances during his second term as VP, but I believe that time was dominated by his son Beau's battle with brain cancer, his son Hunter's difficulties with foreign law enforcement, and the emergence of allegations of inappropriate physical contact against him personally. It was clearly a very stressful time, and led him to decide to not run in 2016 when the party was desperately searching for an alternative to Hillary and Bernie.

Now, in the two-year run-up to this election, they have done their best to tightly control his appearances. Even so, when he goes off script he has been inclined to make gaffes that undermine the image they want to portray: that Biden is a dull but stable alternative to crazy Trump. In particular, his tendency to insult, or challenge to a fight outside, members of the public who ask tough questions comes across as worryingly-not-stable.

So, compared to Trump, we just don't have even 1% of the examples of off-the-cuff Joe, and what we have seen raises questions, questions that Trump is only going to be too happy to answer during the campaign.

Note to the partisans: Nothing I have said here should be controversial. Any honest Democrat analyst would privately agree that this is the terrain they have to traverse in this election.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Poet